Wizards and Their Masters

[Sleepycrow]

A plug from my blog about how wizards learn spells in your campaign. Ever think about it much? Already do this sort of thing? I'm interested to know!

It may not occur to players and referees alike that the idea of acquiring new magical abilities should potentially be role-played. It didn't occur to me until today. "You've got enough XP to level, so choose your spells and update your character sheet." Hang on a minute!

Wouldn't it be way cooler to have an opportunity arise in-game? Don't wizards need other, better wizards to teach them stuff? And don't these other, better wizards require things in return for their tutelage? There's a lot of opportunity for adventure in just learning a new spell, I'll wager!

I'm currently running Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG Beta Rules for my Thursday night game, and some of the characters just got enough XP to choose a class last week.

I think for this week I'll create an NPC wizard who will offer up a few select spells to prospective wizard characters in exchange for an errand or two. Try it! Don't let them pick from a table in a book! Have your players meet real wizards in the game world and see how much more meaningful their spells will be to them.

[Kol Korran]

well, it might be fun, but there may be a few problem with that:
1) the basic assumption (as per the book) is that wizards conduct their own research between levels, which is the source of their spells. sure, it might be fun to have a "higher level wizard", but how far does that go? 10th level? 14? 18? when are you "good enough" to not need help? many of the players going for wizard go with EXACTLY that mind set in mind.

2) you'll need to keep other casters to similar rules. now you need to find out where sorcerers get their powers? (also a master?) where do clerics, and then more isoteric casters- walrlokc, duskblades, dragon shamans, binders and more.

3) not all levels are gained with a next trip to town available. what if you're in the middle of a sea voyage? another plane? down a long dungeon? in a post apocalyptic game? masters to gain spells from may not be available. a mechanic to allow casters (and other characters) to gain their basic class features on themselves is important.

4) the master may be available, but do you really want a side quest everu level? what if the adventure doesn't have time for this? if you decide on some levels yes and some no, how do you decide? if you decide to just do it whenever the DM decide, it brings us to the last point:

5) you can gain the same influence by tapping to any character's background, personality, current connections and affiliations and so on. specifically imposing a need to find a "master" is often annoying to the player, ( if he wants a master, it should come from him/ her, not the rules) and troublesome, without gaining ANY really new benefit.

at least IMHO. i may be missing something...
Kol.

[gkathellar]

This has the same virtues and issues as any other training-based leveling concept — it makes for good short-form storytelling, but can dramatically inconvenience gameplay long-form storytelling.

I tend to just assume that as a wizard, you're pretty much always working on arcane theory, so you just put together new spells based on what you've learned as time goes by in the same way the fighter's BAB goes up as a result of him gradually learning new things about fighting.

[Tyndmyr]

It's fun in your first game or three.

But eventually, it's like describing how your char eats breakfast or gets dressed. Nobody cares, and we want to get on to the fun stuff we haven't done a million times in a million games before.

[Sleepycrow]

Interesting thoughts. Perhaps if it was something a bit more laid back? Think Arioch from Elric of Melnibone. There could be a brief scene between the otherworldly master and the wizard, for flavour.

In general, I'm looking to make magic feel more mysterious and special (I prefer a low-magic campaign). Any other ideas on how to accomplish this?

[gkathellar]

Interesting thoughts. Perhaps if it was something a bit more laid back? Think Arioch from Elric of Melnibone. There could be a brief scene between the otherworldly master and the wizard, for flavour.

In general, I'm looking to make magic feel more mysterious and special (I prefer a low-magic campaign). Any other ideas on how to accomplish this?

Use a game system other than D&D, where magic is like roaches in a compost?

[erikun]

What happens when the Wizard is the highest level character in the area? Where do spells come from then?

[Sleepycrow]

I'm not saying they get all their spells from a more powerful wizard, but at lower levels, in particular in the DCC game I'm running, where characters are 0-level classless common folk, a blacksmith suddenly learning how to cast magic deserves some attention. Later on, sure, the wizard can be studying and exploring on their own.

And what's wrong with more adventures? Is there something more important characters need to be doing other than adventuring?

[Coidzor]

Now, if you had said could, that'd be ok. But no, you chose the word "should," and I don't like being told that the story is better if it has to focus for half a session on Joel begging an imperious master for Haste instead of Fireball. Especially if I'd either have to RP the imperious master or be an audience to the exchange.

[Sleepycrow]

Note that I said, "should potentially." Any event, just getting some ideas flowing, that's all. I'm not saying one thing is better than another or that the game should be played in a specific, "correct" way. Not at all. Just curious as to how GM's approach the study of magic in their campaigns.

[Moogleking]

One game our DM ran, he ruled that Sorceror's didn't choose spells; They manifested based on their personalities.

So an aggressive, hot tempered Sorceror would be an Evoker, whereas a charming, tactful character would get Enchantment.

[GungHo]

Yes, we usually play out ways for different arcane, psionic, and divine casters to learn new spells.

Sometimes it's from a higher level character providing a boon through teaching (either for a task performed, straight payment/barter, or political capital). Sometimes it's research (experimentation, reading captured spellbooks or holy scrolls, complex mental exercises). Sometimes it's an outright epiphany.

I make the martial folks go through the same thing too... they gotta train with a master, read combat treaties, or decide "hey, never underestimate a kick to the groin, hunh?".

It really depends on 1) what we have time to play out, 2) what people come up with between sessions, 3) what makes sense.

[TheCountAlucard]

I usually make an effort of having my character RP his developing new spells, so I generally don't seek out a master for higher-level stuff.

[DodgerH2O]

Actually for my Low Magic campaign one of the simplest ways to go about it that I determined was remove Sorcerers and take away the free spells (or halve them) for Wizards. Mechanically it's the same class but it makes the class far more reliant on seeking out old crypts and such (for scrolls to copy into the spellbook) or other Wizards (to seek instruction on spells). Wizards are far less powerful when they only find the spells you give them, though people used to making uber-mages might get a little peeved that they get Magic Missile and Sleep instead of say Color Spray and Charm Person.

[Eakin]

This would get real old real fast if it was an every spell/every level type thing. However, I could see incorporating it occasionally if you wanted to throw in a couple unusual or homebrew spells. Or when the player wants to make their own spells.

Id even give them the opportunity to research versions of core, known spells a level or so earlier if it wouldn't be game breaking. If a spell is underpowered for it's level let the PCs have it earlier if they will work for it.

I wouldn't make a fetch quest out of this though, you would want these sidequests to be a bit more memorable than the usual dungeon crawl

[Calanon]

What happens when the Wizard is the highest level character in the area? Where do spells come from then?

Wizards can traverse planes with great ease at about 13th level with plane shift so that can be an alternative resource for new spells.

The best way to RP learning spells is from a magical creature... i mean your character for lack of a better term is chosen by destiny right? so why not give yourself a special way to explain how you've been learning all these spells

If I'm playing an Evil wizard why not learn from Mok'slyk, The Serpent? or why not learn by stealing information from a certain cult of an evil Lich god, these things provide excellent resources for knowledge and can be used by a DM to start games (The Cult of Vecna wants to silence you once and for all for stealing there information or the Serpents is merely a mental incarnation for your sanity and you use it as a way to cope with you learning spells that can ravage an entire civilization)