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    Default D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    I hear Monte Cook is going back to WotC.
    With Cook back and 4e sales dangerously low... do you guys think we'll be seeing a 5th edition?

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    4th edition was announced at Gen Con 2007 which I think was in August. It was then released in the summer of 2008 (in time for Gen Con).

    If they don't have it ready for a Gen Con release it might be announced and released the next year.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Guy View Post
    4th edition was announced at Gen Con 2007 which I think was in August. It was then released in the summer of 2008 (in time for Gen Con).

    If they don't have it ready for a Gen Con release it might be announced and released the next year.
    But do you think we'll be getting 5th edition so soon?

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    But do you think we'll be getting 5th edition so soon?
    I don't know. It's not really my sort of thing anymore. (Unless it changes so drastically that it becomes my sort of thing. )
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    So soon? There were only a few years between 3rd and 3.5, and then only a few more years between 3.5 and 4th.
    We've had 4th Ed now for four years, and 2012 will make it 5 years. If 5th Ed is announced in 2012 for 2013, it'll be about on schedule.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed View Post
    So soon? There were only a few years between 3rd and 3.5, and then only a few more years between 3.5 and 4th.
    We've had 4th Ed now for four years, and 2012 will make it 5 years. If 5th Ed is announced in 2012 for 2013, it'll be about on schedule.
    3.5 wasn't a new game. 3.5 is to 3.0 what Essentials is to 4e.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    3.5 wasn't a new game. 3.5 is to 3.0 what Essentials is to 4e.
    Okay, so leave out 3.5 if you feel like it.

    OD&D was only around for a year before AD&D came along, and then Unearthed Arcana came along after six years, changing things a fair bit. Then 2nd Ed AD&D turned up three years after Unearthed Arcana, and ran for six years before being revised again.

    On the other side of the fence, Basic D&D was revised 4 years after first publishing (along with the publication of the Expert set), then again two years later - and again seven years later.

    Besides, the creators tend to stress that they're all the same game, really.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    I hear Monte Cook is going back to WotC.
    With Cook back and 4e sales dangerously low... do you guys think we'll be seeing a 5th edition?
    Emphasis mine.

    You have any sources on that? I'm not challenging you on it, it's just a curiosity since I stopped paying any attention to 4e like two years ago.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordokai View Post
    Emphasis mine.

    You have any sources on that? I'm not challenging you on it, it's just a curiosity since I stopped paying any attention to 4e like two years ago.
    No, that's just what I've been hearing. I don't have any hard numbers.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordokai View Post
    You have any sources on that?
    Well, the only one with solid figures is WOTC themselves, and they aren't telling. That said, the forums at Enworld have a few store owners that post regularly, and they state that Pathfinder has been consistently outselling 4E for awhile.

    More to the point, 4E is running out of material to print. What splatbooks could WOTC feasibly think of that wouldn't be repeating old ground? Their catalog for 2012 is pretty thin so far (although they do have one more Heroes Of book planned, and more fortune cards, and another D&D-based board game).
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Well, the only one with solid figures is WOTC themselves, and they aren't telling. That said, the forums at Enworld have a few store owners that post regularly, and they state that Pathfinder has been consistently outselling 4E for awhile.

    More to the point, 4E is running out of material to print. What splatbooks could WOTC feasibly think of that wouldn't be repeating old ground? Their catalog for 2012 is pretty thin so far (although they do have one more Heroes Of book planned, and more fortune cards, and another D&D-based board game).
    I heard the boardgames are selling pretty well. I bought Legend of Drizzt myself.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    More to the point, 4E is running out of material to print. What splatbooks could WOTC feasibly think of that wouldn't be repeating old ground? Their catalog for 2012 is pretty thin so far (although they do have one more Heroes Of book planned, and more fortune cards, and another D&D-based board game).
    Didn't they cancel a batch of planned books somethimes this year?

    Also, we had two other threads who talked about this a lot:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207470
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218549

    I think it's pretty certain that preparation for 5th Edition have been underway since at least early this year.
    Last edited by Yora; 2011-12-19 at 08:18 AM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordokai View Post
    Emphasis mine.

    You have any sources on that? I'm not challenging you on it, it's just a curiosity since I stopped paying any attention to 4e like two years ago.
    Sources are fairly hard to find from the direct sources, since WoTC has little interest in showing off their poor performing things. However, I ran an analysis a while back, and came to the conclusion that PF is performing competitively via a meta-analysis of bestseller lists. Who is actually selling more books at a given time tends to be weighted in favor of WoTC when I checked, but it varied substantially depending on who had released a book last and such.

    This doesn't mean that sales are terrible overall, but it does indicate a long lived split in the customer base. Recapturing lost customers is probably something they'd love to do...I don't know if 5th is going to do it or not, but presumably they'll at least try.

    I agree with the assessment that they're starting up work on 5th ed...but I don't know that it will actually be sold in 2012, since it's not even announced yet. My bet would be 2013 at the earliest for actual sales. It takes a minute to design a solid RPG.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    The Legend & Lore articles mostly sound quite positive to me, in regard what I'd like to get from a fantasy RPG, and these articles seem to exist entirely for the purpose of asking "If we did this, what would you think about that?".
    How this will actually transfer into the finished product remains to be seen.

    But right now, I plan to keep an eye on 5th Edition to see if it might be more to my tastes than Pathfinder is right now. I'm not too particularly into the system, so getting me to switch wouldn't be that hard to do. If they can provide something better.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    I know that the majority of the people I've gamed with over the past couple of decades go very hung up on AD&D, and it was a process to adjust to 3.0/3.5, but ultimately, it was a better system.

    Personally speaking, I really developed in the game playing 3.0/3.5, so I'm kinda stuck there, mentally....and that's fine in my opinion.

    It's kinda like how we never really get into our parents' music and our kids never really get into ours....its a new thing for a new generation.

    So, admittedly, for me, it's a bit snobby and closed minded to shun a new version of the system, but in the words of Bruce Hornsby, "That's just the way it is..."

    I hope the kids like it. Like they liked 4e.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Aren't they basically turning it into a CCG with 5th Edition? I thought I remembered hearing somewhere that the new gamma world game was a test run for 5e.

    Not that I play anything but pathfinder these days, ti would just be really sad if they tried to go that route.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    I hear Monte Cook is going back to WotC.
    With Cook back and 4e sales dangerously low... do you guys think we'll be seeing a 5th edition?
    4e sales are not ''dangerously low'' for Wotc. Brick and mortar stores are probably seeing a less sales of 4e than they'd like, and there is a general attitude of ''just subscribe to the DDI and don't waste your money on books that will just be errata'ed anyway.'' I think that may well be short-sighted, but it's also actually a disincentive to putting out a new edition immediately.

    I don't really expect to see 5e until the economy improves - imo WotC will want to spend a fair amount of money making sure it (and the associated online side) goes much more smoothly than the 4e launch. But since we also probably won't know about it until at most a year in advance the speculation will continue...
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    3.5 wasn't a new game. 3.5 is to 3.0 what Essentials is to 4e.
    3.5 was a simpler version of the 3e ruleset in an attempt to lure new customers with products that ought to also appeal to existing customers? I don't think I can agree with that.

    I was going to say something about 3.5 invalidating many 3.0 books (iirc the X & Y series of splats got tossed out, at the very least), but maybe that's wrong? Did people keep using the 3.0 material, really? And for that matter, how many really reference the 4e PHB1 with all the errata? (Although I'd definitely argue that Essentials doesn't really have anything to do with that - it's the DDI, mainly.)
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaomera View Post
    3.5 was a simpler version of the 3e ruleset in an attempt to lure new customers with products that ought to also appeal to existing customers? I don't think I can agree with that.

    I was going to say something about 3.5 invalidating many 3.0 books (iirc the X & Y series of splats got tossed out, at the very least), but maybe that's wrong? Did people keep using the 3.0 material, really? And for that matter, how many really reference the 4e PHB1 with all the errata? (Although I'd definitely argue that Essentials doesn't really have anything to do with that - it's the DDI, mainly.)
    Definitely not correct. An update guide was published, and 3.0 stuff is RAW legal in 3.5. There are a few corner cases(ie, fullblades, etc) where it's slightly unclear how to do the conversion, but the vast, vast majority of 3.0 works fine in 3.5. The only books that were replaced were core, so no splat were tossed out.

    That said, I continued to use the 3.0 core books until about...two three years ago? Whenever the choice was between buying a shiny new 3.5 book or getting a replacement with a few minor updates to a book I had, the shiny new thing tended to win out.

    3 -> 3.5 was, if anything, MORE minor than 4e -> Essentials.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Recapturing lost customers is probably something they'd love to do...I don't know if 5th is going to do it or not, but presumably they'll at least try.
    Wanna bet?

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    That is the most likely outcome, yes.

    But hey...it's WoTC. They're not gonna say "no thanks, we're not gonna change systems for extra money". So...fifth ed is coming at some point, it's just a matter of when. And if you are popping out another edition, you might as well try to recapture your old customers if at all possible. So...they'll try. Success? Meh. Not holding my breath. It might be fantastic, but it might well not be.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    That is the most likely outcome, yes.

    But hey...it's WoTC. They're not gonna say "no thanks, we're not gonna change systems for extra money". So...fifth ed is coming at some point, it's just a matter of when. And if you are popping out another edition, you might as well try to recapture your old customers if at all possible. So...they'll try. Success? Meh. Not holding my breath. It might be fantastic, but it might well not be.
    Yeah....honestly, I'm not holding my breath on it. It would take a LOT to get me motivated to try a new edition.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Oh, I'll try it. I'll try almost any game. My bookshelves are positively stuffed with RPG rulebooks, but some of them just don't see any play time in practice.

    3.5 probably has the books that get the most use, followed by 7th Sea, then D20 M. Some books are relatively unlikely to see playtime ever again(2e spelljammer, say, or the kingdoms of kalimar books), and there's some books I'd LOVE to try out...but never find players for them. I suspect 5e is likely to trickle off into one of the latter two categories.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    I don't think a new edition will be coming out in 2012, but I do think there will be an announcement of some sort in 2012. Of course, they could fool me and just announce that they've nothing to announce but to stay tuned because they'll have an announcement in 2013.

    I've heard speculation that there won't be anything world-shattering until 2014, though, since that is D&D's 40th anniversary. Since that coincides with my 40th birthday, it better be something good. :p
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Well, the only one with solid figures is WOTC themselves, and they aren't telling. That said, the forums at Enworld have a few store owners that post regularly, and they state that Pathfinder has been consistently outselling 4E for awhile.
    How sad is that? Pathfinder is basically free, and it's still outselling the game with no OGL.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    I think it will be announced 2012 and will be realeased 2013.
    That reminds me, I think I have worked out why so many homebrewers got banned from the forum. They were invalidating 4th edition. Chances are WOTC hate homebrew.

    Anyway I thought Monte Cook was working for pathfinder, to all the boos and hisses of the pathfinder community.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    How sad is that? Pathfinder is basically free, and it's still outselling the game with no OGL.
    Actually not that surprising. I love me some OGL, and I also like physical copies of books. I'm probably more likely to buy a game that has an OGL(and I do indeed own a wide variety of pathfinder books), not less. It's not true for everyone, but I would not consider the OGL to be a liability. If nothing else, it enhances market penetration substantially, and nothing helps your game sell like actually having people playing it in the stores.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Actually not that surprising. I love me some OGL, and I also like physical copies of books. I'm probably more likely to buy a game that has an OGL(and I do indeed own a wide variety of pathfinder books), not less. It's not true for everyone, but I would not consider the OGL to be a liability. If nothing else, it enhances market penetration substantially, and nothing helps your game sell like actually having people playing it in the stores.
    Also, Pathfinder books are very well illustrated, very well organized and the fluff tends to be very good.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    I don't think 5e is going to come out any time soon, it just doesn't strike me as Likely. 4e has only been out for three years, four by 2012 and five by 2013. Thats pretty short life span for an entire edition.

    D&D white box came out in 1974 ~ Lasted 3 Years
    AD&D 1st Ed in 1977-9 ~ Lasted 8 Years until
    Unearthed Arcana Expansion in 1985 ~ Lasted 4 Years, 12 Years Total
    AD&D 2nd Ed in 1989-92 ~ Lasted 4 Years until
    AD&D 2nd Ed Revised in 1996 ~ Lasted 4 years, 8 Years Total
    D&D 3rd Ed in 2000 ~ Lasted 3 Years until
    D&D 3.5 Ed in 2003 ~ Lasted 5 Years, 8 Years Total
    D&D 4th Ed in 2008 ~ Lasted 2 Years Until
    D&D 4th Ed Essentials in 2010 ~ Currently 1 Year Old, Total 3 Years So Far

    According to the Pattern of release dates, a Revision seems to come out 3-4 years after the original release, and the entire Life span of an Edition seems to be 8 years. So its more likely that we'll get a 4.5 edition in 2012/3 than a new 5th edition. And even if you count Essentials as 4e revision then it we should expect 4e in some form to at least continue to 2016.

    Also theirs still plenty of content to cover, off the top of my head
    • An Epic Tier focused Monster Manual
    • An Epic Tier focused DM Guide
    • A book on Primordials, seeing as they feature heavily in the Paths of Light Mythos I'm not sure why their hasn't been one yet
    • An Underdark setting Guide
    • A Shadowfell setting Guide, We have Heroes of shadow but that focuses more on Player Options than adventure hooks and lore
    • A Feywild setting Guide, We have Heroes of feywild but that focuses more on Player Options than adventure hooks and lore
    • A few more campaign settings, so far we only have Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun and Eberron
    • Any books on the Far Realm

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    Also, Pathfinder books are very well illustrated, very well organized and the fluff tends to be very good.
    I find the fluff to be mediocre at best, and very vanilla fantasy. However, the other things you listed are definitely true, and certainly help to sell a book.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition in 2012?

    If the situation would always be the same, then the 8 year pattern could be regarded as very strong evidence.
    But the point is, that 4th Edition is not just the same as the other editions before. A release in early 2013 seems still likely to me, even if they don't make it in 2012, of which I am not entirely sure. But I can't see how they would drag it out to five more years, when reception is "not that" good after just 3 years, and has been so for quite some time.
    And all the restructuring they are doing just screams to me "New edition in production".

    The Golarion settings seems incredibly generic and boring to me, and a complete waste of time. But that's the Campaign Setting line, which is distinct from the Rulebook line. And even the rulebooks have some fluff. Not very much expanded on, but the AGP classes introduce a number of great new character concepts to the game, as well as giving new ideas what people in the world can do. That's also a kind of fluff to me, which I like a lot about the Oracle and Witch. How I implement them in a game is my business, but they introduced very good new ideas to the game. Also many great monstes.
    Last edited by Yora; 2011-12-19 at 01:05 PM.
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