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    Question How to roleplay this guy?

    Yesterday, we stared a new campaign and I rolled a Minotaur who'll get Phrenic template and later become a Soul Eater.
    The thing I want to ask you, is how to roleplay his mental stats, which are:

    INT 6
    WIS 16
    CHA 17

    And through 5-6 levels, they'll improve to:

    INT 8
    WIS 18
    CHA 22

    So how to roleplay this guy? I know he'll be DERP when it comes to logic and tactics, but he'll be good with talking despite the whole "Me Tarzan, you Jane" thing going on. And high wisdom.

    So, any ideas? Or popular movie/game/book characters that would have similar stats?
    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by PrGo; 2011-10-15 at 06:08 AM.

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    When it comes to math, machines, battle tactics, and anything that requires careful planning, he is completely lost. However, he is extremely good at judging people and understanding their motivations.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    As far as INT, 10 is college-level. With an 8, he'd be at the level of most high school students. So he may not make the plans, but he's not a complete moron, so he can follow easily enough. If you're just attached to the wise, strong idiot however, you can roleplay it lower if you like.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    The one character I can think of who follows the low Int, high Wis and Cha concept would be Sam Gamgee from Lord of the Rings. However, his stats would probably not be as extreme as these.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    The one character I can think of who follows the low Int, high Wis and Cha concept would be Sam Gamgee from Lord of the Rings. However, his stats would probably not be as extreme as these.
    Haha! Sweet comparison! Thanks, I'll be sure to implement parts of his character into this guy

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Copy-pasted from another post about Charisma:

    Charisma can involve any number of the following:

    Sense of self
    Self-worth
    Self-confidence
    Self-respect
    Physical appearance
    Grooming
    Build
    Posture
    How one holds oneself
    How one presents oneself
    Likeability
    Ability to read others
    Empathy
    Ability to relate to others
    Communication skills
    General social skills
    Ability to manipulate others
    Ability to convince others
    Strength of presence
    Strength of personality
    Ability to read and act correctly upon social cues
    Knowledge of unwritten social rules
    Annnnnnd so on.


    Brand new for this thread, a similar list for Wisdom:

    Keenness of senses
    Awareness of surroundings
    Instincts
    Self-awareness (as in... Can't think of the word for it, but the sort of thing that tells you where to touch your nose and what your limbs are doing and that distinguishes "self" from "everything else")
    Empathy
    Common sense
    Hunches
    Intuition
    Strength of mind
    Understanding
    Innate talent
    Prudence
    Sense of self-preservation
    No doubt others I haven't thought of.


    And for Intelligence:

    Logic
    Reasoning
    Planning
    Ability to learn
    Problem-solving
    Abstract thought
    Articulated...ness
    Tactical and strategic ability
    Clarity of thought
    Memory
    Processing of information
    Retention of knowledge
    And so on.

    Note that it is possible for there to be overlap in ability score themes. Empathy can be a feature of Wisdom or Charisma as here, for example.

    So, with these in mind... What sort of character do you want to play?
    Last edited by Serpentine; 2011-10-15 at 07:05 AM.

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Self-awareness (as in... Can't think of the word for it, but the sort of thing that tells you where to touch your nose and what your limbs are doing and that distinguishes "self" from "everything else")
    Proprioception.

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Phrenic Soul-Eater Minotaur says to me that your Cha represents a strong force of personality and an intimidating presence, while your Wis represents how attuned you are with your bestial, instinctual nature.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by PrGo View Post
    So how to roleplay this guy? I know he'll be DERP when it comes to logic and tactics, but he'll be good with talking despite the whole "Me Tarzan, you Jane" thing going on. And high wisdom.
    Not really. Tactics kind of fall under the category of wisdom. Really, the character would be cunning and clever. He'd stink at concentrating though. I guess imagine someone super smart but they just can't focus when it comes to books or long conversations because of their mental condition.

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    Not really. Tactics kind of fall under the category of wisdom. Really, the character would be cunning and clever. He'd stink at concentrating though. I guess imagine someone super smart but they just can't focus when it comes to books or long conversations because of their mental condition.
    Uh, no, not at all...


    Clever = intelligent above all else.

    Coming up with any sort of tactics would be pretty much connected with knowledge, intelligence and whole lot of spatial ability, imagination, and general ability to proceed stuff in your "RAM".

    Implementing it may be more "lizard brain" wisdom thing of course, but....
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Thanks, Serpentine, for that list. It'll help a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Phrenic Soul-Eater Minotaur says to me that your Cha represents a strong force of personality and an intimidating presence, while your Wis represents how attuned you are with your bestial, instinctual nature.
    Nice. That's a good way to put it simply. I'll use that as a base for further personality development. Thanks

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiryt View Post
    Uh, no, not at all...


    Clever = intelligent above all else.

    Coming up with any sort of tactics would be pretty much connected with knowledge, intelligence and whole lot of spatial ability, imagination, and general ability to proceed stuff in your "RAM".

    Implementing it may be more "lizard brain" wisdom thing of course, but....
    Um, yes, yes it does...

    I highly doubt an online website that lists a few synonyms for a would makes it a legit argument. Intelligent is just book-smarts. You're ability to memorize facts. That's why wizards use it for spells. Intelligent, wisdom, and charisma can all be used to outsmart someone, each in a different way. You have a default in one of them, but the other two are really high so you're still a crafty, cunning person that can easily outsmart someone. You're still clever.

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    Um, yes, yes it does...

    I highly doubt an online website that lists a few synonyms for a would makes it a legit argument. Intelligent is just book-smarts. You're ability to memorize facts. That's why wizards use it for spells. Intelligent, wisdom, and charisma can all be used to outsmart someone, each in a different way. You have a default in one of them, but the other two are really high so you're still a crafty, cunning person that can easily outsmart someone. You're still clever.
    As abstract those 'abilities' are this really doesn't hold that much to the definitions WotC provided - nicely summed up by Serpentine in this very thread for example.

    Someone with very high Wisdom can 'outsmart' someone by being savvy, level headed and generally 'wise'.

    He is very unlikely to actually "outhink" anyone, to be crafty and creative -because he has literally insufficient brain capabilities to come with compicated ideas and analyze them quickly.

    Not enough brain "clock rate" to actually craft solutions, possible results or risks quickly and efficiently.

    My dog or rat can do, detect, find or whatever stuff in pretty crazy way, but in no way they can outsmart me.
    Last edited by Spiryt; 2011-10-15 at 03:13 PM.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Low intelligence, high wisdom, high charisma? Forrest Gump. Low IQ, but a lot of common sense and simple life wisdom, and he has enough charisma to become a sensation and lead the crowds whenever he goes. An alternate approach would be a shonen anime main character - kind of an idiot, but has good judgement and instincts, and has the natural ability to inspire people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post
    As far as INT, 10 is college-level. With an 8, he'd be at the level of most high school students. So he may not make the plans, but he's not a complete moron, so he can follow easily enough. If you're just attached to the wise, strong idiot however, you can roleplay it lower if you like.
    Lolwut. Not only is intelligence unrelated to education, because education is represented by your knowledge skills, but also a typical college student has a much higher level of theoretical knowledge than an average dweller of a medieval fantasy world.

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengu_temp View Post
    Lolwut. Not only is intelligence unrelated to education, because education is represented by your knowledge skills, but also a typical college student has a much higher level of theoretical knowledge than an average dweller of a medieval fantasy world.
    Depends about what I guess. Probably not really much more theoretical knowledge about, say, mushrooms, local taxation, wolves tracks and habits, barrel making or whatever.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    As a general rule of planning and mental stats, go look at Nale's plans. Or Wile E. Coyote's plans. A high wisdom character is better at predicting what an enemy's going to do, how to use their surroundings, and how their plan is going to work in practice.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-10-15 at 03:27 PM.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    I would say he would be someone who lives for the moment, enjoys himself at every immediate opportunity, but isn't far-thinking. He doesn't plan, he reacts, and well.

    Limit his steps to no more than three or four. ("Okay, I need to do this, go there, do that, and.. umm...")

    Very good at reading situations and intent, but poor implementation skills. When he acts, it's decisive, with no hesitation or doubt.

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiryt View Post
    Uh, no, not at all...


    Clever = intelligent above all else.

    Coming up with any sort of tactics would be pretty much connected with knowledge, intelligence and whole lot of spatial ability, imagination, and general ability to proceed stuff in your "RAM".

    Implementing it may be more "lizard brain" wisdom thing of course, but....

    Tactics do generally fall under wisdom actually, but i guess one could day that tactics is a mixture of INT and WIS.

    But I will agree with whoever said that INT is book-smart. The PH says:
    INT: describes how well your character
    learns and reasons.
    WIS: measures your common sense, perception,
    self-discipline, and empathy. You use your
    Wisdom score to notice details, sense danger, and get a
    read on other people.

    I'd say making a plan is a little more "using common sense to gain an advantage" than it is "analyzing and reasoning"

    So, making a plan would probably be around 40% INT, and 60% WIS I think.
    Last edited by Silma; 2011-10-16 at 12:11 AM.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    Intelligent is just book-smarts. You're ability to memorize facts.
    No ability is "just" anything, least of all Intelligence. No point going into detail why, though - I already have in my previous post.

    I would think that tactics and strategy could both fall under both Intelligence and Wisdom, with possibly tactics leaning slightly more towards Wisdom and strategy slightly more towards Intelligence, but I think both are more indicative and/or definitive of Intelligence.

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Thanks a lot, everyone! I have more than enough material to make a memorable character

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silma View Post
    Tactics do generally fall under wisdom actually, but i guess one could day that tactics is a mixture of INT and WIS.

    I'd say making a plan is a little more "using common sense to gain an advantage" than it is "analyzing and reasoning"
    Yeah, no. I'd buy tactics being wisdom if the situation in question is trying to retain order in a heated combat, but as a rule its all about interpreting observations through training and experience. You need to know what an ambush might look like, how terrain will affect combat, so on and so forth, and then you need to manipulate that knowledge. If you know that fires and banners may indicate a vacant hill or chunk of plain that is disguised as an army, and that if there is forest nearby it might contain an ambush, then you can reason out that putting a bunch of fires and banners in place when there is a forest nearby can trick someone who has demonstrated signs of caution into suspecting an ambush near the forest, and reason from there that they will probably avoid the area, and as such the "empty camp" makes a perfect place to actually hold troops, as it won't be expected.

    One analyzes the situation, one analyzes the opposition, and then tactics are really a matter of tricking your opponent into believing or doing something that you can capitalize on, while not being tricked into believing or doing something they can capitalize on. Wisdom, the D&D term, has its place in this, as observation skills are critical, but the analysis is where it all comes together. Plus, observation skills can be supplemented with these fancy things called guides and informants, which are likely also these fancy things called party members in a roleplaying game.
    Last edited by Knaight; 2011-10-16 at 08:41 AM.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silma View Post
    But I will agree with whoever said that INT is book-smart.
    There were many historical cases of people with absolutely brilliant minds but no or barely any education. Are you saying those people had low intelligence scores?

    Book-smarts = knowledge skills. Intelligence helps with those because smarter people learn faster and can understand complex ideas easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    When it comes to math, machines, battle tactics, and anything that requires careful planning, he is completely lost. However, he is extremely good at judging people and understanding their motivations.
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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    I see a couple basic ways to play this.

    1 - The friendly giant. Not very bright, but sensible, and nice to people. Doesn't have a large vocab or understand complex ideas, but understands the "important" things in life, like loyalty, friendship, etc.

    2 - The big dumb jock. Again, not very bright or good with the book-larnin', but popular despite being a loudmouth, or possibly because of it.
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    You should go for the lovable idiot. The Jock that means well & has good commonsense but has little grasp on "higher learnin'" Basically play it like a TV hero type. For inspiration, think Xander (Buffy), Clark (Smallville), or Cordelia Chase (Buffy/Angel)

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    Generally, you're looking at someone who may have good tactics (he's got an intuitive grasp of the situation, and his gut leads him well), but is going to SUCK at strategy. He's going to excel at making use of the tools he has, but be poor at picking the correct tools to bring with him.

    For example, tell this guy you're going to be building a barn, and he'll bring a hammer... but he'll forget that you might need a saw. Once he shows up with that hammer, he'll figure out how to use that hammer... but it won't be as easy as if there's a guy along who brought a saw.
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    Your Conan.

    You think fast and react instinctively, and your instincts are often very good. You've got a strong personal magnetism, and something about you just screams badass/scares the piss out of people.

    You do not, however, play chess, read novels or tomes of history or lore, or invent things.
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    It's hard to tell if this arguement is till going on or not, but since I don't see any clear resolution to it here we go:

    "Tactics" is broad a thing to be attributed to a single ability, and needs to be thrown out of the discusion. Let's return to basics for a sec:

    INT gives a numerical measure of a characters ability to think, learn, and connect ideas together, especially about things that aren't immediately in front of them. a high INT allows to understand the principles behind a complex idea, and apply that in new, sometimes innovative ways. INT is the father of engineering (not the skill, the field).

    WIS quantifies a characters strength of will, and innate ability to sense the world around, ESPECIALLY other living things and thier state of mind/being.

    The critical difference between the two is in how information gathered is processes, NOT how it is used. INT is about thinking, WIS is about feeling. The reason a Monk's AC bonus, and stun DC are keyed off of WIS, is because a monk's skill in those areas are based on feeling thier opponants out, rather than thinking ahead of them.

    Now Tactics: Tactics is a huge mix of training and intuition. Terrain, timing, force, equipment, allies, resources, morale.....these are all things that fall under tactics, and each mental stat has a role in influencing all this. Depending on what scale of warfare you want to talk about, different things come into play as well.

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    Default Re: How to roleplay this guy?

    remember, wolves are good at tactics but have an int of 2. (not as good as human) Humans have the ability to usetheir high int to think of complex situations and results that go long intot he future, but cleverness is something strong in the animal kingdom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerlis View Post
    remember, wolves are good at tactics but have an int of 2. (not as good as human) Humans have the ability to usetheir high int to think of complex situations and results that go long intot he future, but cleverness is something strong in the animal kingdom.
    Wolves are good at incredibly small scale tactics when they outnumber someone. And that is pretty much it - how good they are is blown out of proportion, and all they really have going for them is "surround, hit the weaker ones, try not to attack unless they are distracted by someone else". Remember, an individual battle with hundreds of thousands of people would still be tactics, and decently large and varied groups are basically assumed with the word and technology level in question. At that point, it takes a human.
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