Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 4 of 4
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default (PEACH) Hero of Epic - 3.5 Prestige Class with Epic Poetry themes

    Hero of Epic

    Epic poems need heroes. Some abound in them, possessing a roll-call of champions beyond the peer of mortal men. Others possess but a single hero for their epic, a man far beyond what anyone expects of him. Somewhere, the hero of an epic will likely possess a divine ancestor, however remote. These heroes all possess different fighting styles, but all are experts with their chosen weapons and deadly to face in single combat.

    Prerequisites: BAB +7, proficiency with at least 2 martial or exotic weapons, must have performed a deed worthy of commemoration (slain an enemy champion, slain a powerful monster, saved a town/city), 10 ranks in any two skills.

    Skill Points per level: 4 + Int modifier.

    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge: History, Nobility and Religion (Int), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).

    Alignment: Any.

    HD: d12

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Hero and Weapon, Rite of Combat

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    | Rite of Combat

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    | Skilled Rite of Combat, Weapon Mastery

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    | Skilled Rite of Combat

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    | Skilled Rite of Combat, A Good Death
    [/table]

    Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: A Hero of Epic gains no new weapon or armour proficiencies.

    Hero and Weapon: Every hero in every epic needs his weapons. Choose two weapons with which you are proficient. You gain Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialisation with those weapons, even if you do not meet the prerequisites. When your Base Attack Bonus reaches +10, as long as you have at least 2 levels in Hero of Epic, you gain Greater Weapon Focus with those weapons, and when it reaches +14, as long as you have you have at least 3 levels in Hero of Epic, you gain Greater Weapon Specialisation with those weapons, once again without needing to meet the prerequisites. When your Base Attack Bonus reaches +20, as long as you have 5 levels in Hero of Epic, you gain Weapon Supremacy with one of these weapons.

    Rite of Combat: Heroes have individual combat styles, each unique to themselves. Some fight like wild beasts, others are coldly calculating. At first and second level, select one of the following abilities:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Baresark Fury: If the Hero of Epic already possess Rage, or a similar ability, their Hero of Epic levels stack with their levels in the class they gained Rage from for the purposes of determining how powerful their Rage is. If they do not, they gain either Rage or Whirling Frenzy (their choice) as a barbarian of their class level.

    Continued Training: Choose a class feature granted by a class you had before entering Hero of Epic, with the exception of spellcasting, manifesting or martial initiating. Your Hero of Epic levels stack with your levels in that class for the purposes of that class feature.

    Martial Student: Choose a class that grants martial initiating that you have levels in. At 1st, 3rd and 5th levels in this class, you gain bonus manoeuvres known and readied, and stances known, as well as an increase in initiator level, as though you had gained a level in this class.

    Warp Spasm: Some epic heroes twist and malform when they wage war. The Hero of Epic may use the Druid Wild Shape Variant: Aspect of Nature as a Druid of his class level, once per day per class level. He treats his effective Druid level for prerequisites as equal to his Base Attack Bonus.

    Physical Superiority: Many Heroes of Epics are far larger than their counterparts, towering over them and striking with power they could not understand. The Hero of Epic’s weapons (including natural weapons) deal damage as though one size category larger, and the Hero of Epic is treated as one size larger for the purpose of grappling.


    Skilled Rite of Combat: At 3rd, 4th and 5th level, the Hero of Epic chooses one of the following advancements to his combat style, or he may choose another ability from the Rite of Combat list.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Divine Rage: Requires: Baresark Fury. The Hero of Epic treats his class level as twice what it actually is for the purposes of his Baresark Fury class feature.

    Swift-Footed: The Hero of Epic gains a bonus to his base land speed equal to 5ft x his class level. In addition, he gains the Pounce ability.

    Lord of Monsters: The Hero of Epic gains the ability to use Summon Monster as an SLA. The level of the Summon Monster is half his HD, up to Summon Monster IX at 18 HD. He may use this ability once per day per 5 HD he possesses.

    Unified Practise: Select one other class in which you have levels. This may not be a class that grants spellcasting, manifesting or martial manoeuvres. Your Hero of Epic levels stack with levels in that class for the purpose of determining any level-dependent benefits of that class’ class features, and your levels in that class stack with your levels in Hero of Epic for determining level-dependent benefits of this class’ class features.

    True Weapon Master: Choose one weapon for which you have the Weapon Focus feat. Whenever use an attack action with that weapon, you may make one extra attack with it at the same Base Attack Bonus (this only grants one extra attack on full attacks). This ability may be used in conjunction with martial manoeuvres.

    Wielder of Unknown Power: Requires: levels in a class which grants spellcasting or manifesting ability. This ability allows the 3rd, 4th and 5th levels of Hero of Epic to stack with your previous levels in one spellcasting or manifesting class for the purpose of spells/powers known and spells/power points per day.

    Terrifying Aspect: Some heroes are so terrifying to behold in battle that enemies quiver to face them. When the Hero of Epic deals damage with a melee weapon, he may choose to force every enemy with line of sight to him to make a Will Save (DC = 10 +1/2 his HD + Charisma modifier) or be Shaken. If the Hero of Epic kills the enemy he is attacking when he activates this ability, this is instead a save against being Frightened. This ability functions once per day per 4 HD the Hero of Epic possesses.


    Weapon Mastery: At 3rd level, pick one of the two weapons you selected for your Hero and Weapon class feature. You gain Melee Weapon Mastery or Ranged Weapon Mastery, as applicable, for weapons of that type.

    A Good Death: In an epic, it is expected the hero will die a “good death”, on the battlefield, in his prime, not surrendering easily to old age. Multiply the length of all the Hero of Epic’s age categories by 3. In addition, the Hero of Epic is rewarded for dying a good death – he may be raised from the dead (such as by Raise Dead, Resurrection) by someone who knows of him even if his body is destroyed or not present. He is always raised in an adjacent square to the person casting the spell. At 20 HD, if the Hero of Epic wishes, he may return as though by a True Resurrection the dawn after his death with no penalty or need for a casting of True Resurrection.

    Spoiler
    Show
    There are more abilities to come, I’m just having an off day. Going to add more active things, like the ability to frighten enemies with a martial display or goad them into attacking, just having a slightly odd day so taking a break for now. For the same reason, apologies if the wording’s a bit off, mention anything that’s confusing.
    Last edited by Cogidubnus; 2011-11-07 at 09:57 AM.
    Homebrew: Ghost Rider, a 3.5e Base Class inspired by Marvel's Comics.


    So guys, the new Iron Man trailer, huh?

    Spoiler
    Show


  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (PEACH) Hero of Epic - 3.5 Prestige Class with Epic Poetry themes

    I think this is most likely around the power level you want. Nothing in it is especially game breaking, but a few things to watch out for:

    1) The stacking with class features trick seems like it could be abusable at the right level of CharOp. Not sure how, though. If you were playing a factotum, how would it interact with the Inspiration class feature? You'd continue to accumulate inspiration, but not gain any new uses for it?

    2) I find it odd that the class advances abilities well after you stop taking levels in the PrC. A fighter, or anyone I guess, could dip one level in this to gain weapon supremacy with two weapons for free. I see no reason for every melee class not to do so, especially given the easy requirements to get into the class. A 5-level prestige class that makes you effectively immortal also seems a touch over-powered, but it only kicks in at 20HD, at which point your party wizard and cleric can make you immortal anyway, so this shouldn't be a big deal. It still seems odd that it advances stuff well after the PrC ends, though.

    3) Needs way more abilities to choose from at the first strength level! I would try to at least double them at both levels if I were you. Take a look at Tattoed Monk for ideas--some of the powers there are decent and there's a lot of them.

    You should mention that the ability that increases your size mods does not stack with the Powerful Build racial ability... being two size categories larger with no LA seems dangerous, especially since your wizard friend can enlarge you to get three size category action going.
    Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2011-11-07 at 10:19 AM.
    Click the spoiler to see all the great games I design:
    Spoiler
    Show


    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
    Spoiled Flush Games

    Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: (PEACH) Hero of Epic - 3.5 Prestige Class with Epic Poetry themes

    1) The stacking with class features trick seems like it could be abusable at the right level of CharOp. Not sure how, though. If you were playing a factotum, how would it interact with the Inspiration class feature? You'd continue to accumulate inspiration, but not gain any new uses for it?
    Exactly. It probably is abusable, but their is another (WotC) prestige class that does a similar thing, and it was an idea I liked for a class that's supposed to allow a warrior to continue to hone his abilities.

    2) I find it odd that the class advances abilities well after you stop taking levels in the PrC. A fighter, or anyone I guess, could dip one level in this to gain weapon supremacy with two weapons for free. I see no reason for every melee class not to do so, especially given the easy requirements to get into the class. A 5-level prestige class that makes you effectively immortal also seems a touch over-powered, but it only kicks in at 20HD, at which point your party wizard and cleric can make you immortal anyway, so this shouldn't be a big deal. It still seems odd that it advances stuff well after the PrC ends, though.
    The reasons for this are simple. It would be a little obscene to hand out all the feats (one of which needs 18 fighter levels to take normally) over the course of 5 levels, so they are handed out later on in the character's development (as continued martial training still makes you a better hero from an epic poetry point of view). I wouldn't hand out as many feats if it weren't for the fact that the only semi-decent one is Weapon Supremacy. +4 to hit and +6 to damage with two weapons is pretty meagre, but Weapon Supremacy adds a couple of neat benefits, and following the progression reflects the great link in epic poetry between a warrior and his arms.

    As for the immortality, well, it was partly to take the ball out of the caster's court, at least for the Hero of Epic. Also because I like the idea of his epicness being so great he can choose to return and continue to accumulate glory if he wishes.

    3) Needs way more abilities to choose from at the first strength level! I would try to at least double them at both levels if I were you. Take a look at Tattoed Monk for ideas--some of the powers there are decent and there's a lot of them.
    I know, this is my problem. I had the idea for the class, sat down to write it, had a load of abilities planned, then suffered a hideous mental block. I will look at Tattooed Monk for some inspiration. Expect more Rites of Combat as my brain gears up (and, probably, after about 2 days of playing Skyrim has got me thinking how awesome x or y would be).
    Homebrew: Ghost Rider, a 3.5e Base Class inspired by Marvel's Comics.


    So guys, the new Iron Man trailer, huh?

    Spoiler
    Show


  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kittenwolf's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2006

    Default Re: (PEACH) Hero of Epic - 3.5 Prestige Class with Epic Poetry themes

    Moving on from the OOC thread of the game we're in :)

    Ok, lets see here. As the class currently stands I personally feel that it's too much. There really is no reason for a martial character to *not* take this class.

    Chassis: d12 HD, Full BaB, two good saves, 4+ Int skills. Chassis are very strong, so we're already off to a solid start

    Prerequisites: May as well just read "Level 7". As it stands any character can enter into this with no commitment. My suggestion would be to throw in something to ensure that people coming to this class at least have to put something into it. Say, "Weapon Focus in two different weapons". Follows on with the "Two weapons" theme that you've got going, and doesn't promote absurd multiclassing to meet them.

    Hero and Weapon: As Human Paragon 3 said a class that grants benefits that scale outside that class are very weird, and quite dodgy.
    Also, this ability grants ten free feats (Focus, Specialisation, Greater Focus, Greater Specialisation and Supremacy, all in two different weapons). Regardless of the power levels of those feats, that is way too much.
    My suggestion would be to replace this with "Levels in this class stack with Fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats with 'X fighter level' requirements", and granting an "Esoteric Learning" (or similar named) ability: "Choose any one class, this does not have to be a class you have levels in yet. Levels in that class also stack with Fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats with 'X fighter level' requirements".
    This way you get to keep the "Weapon X feats aren't just for Fighters anymore" flavor without just giving the to the player on a silver platter.
    Going this method I also thinking granting a bonus feat from the Fighter bonus feat list at lvl 2 & 4 would be appropriate.

    Rite of Combat:
    Physical Superiority: No issues here, though if you wanted to keep up the "This class can work for a lot of different builds" idea, maybe replace the Grappling bit with "Choose one combat maneuver, such as grappling, tripping or disarming. You count as one size category larger for this maneuver"
    Martial Student: I'm a little wary about this simply because 1/2 progression for Martial Adept classes isn't much worse than full. Maybe swap it to "At level two and four" instead, considering the amount of other abilities the class grants?
    Warp Spasm & Baresark Fury: (I assume you mean Berserk frenzy? :). These two options have the same issue: You're taking another class' feature (their main one in the case of Rage) and just giving it to the class for free (or giving one level dipping Druids a very large melee power boost that they really don't need), with more uses per day than either class gets (at level 5 in this class, you can Aspect of Nature or Rage as frequently at a lvl 19 Barbarian or Druid). If you wish to grant this, I'd suggest granting it at half class level, once per day at lvl 1 and a second time at lvl 5.
    Continued Training: In all honesty? This is way too strong. (See examples below). There's just too much scope for abuse when you're handing free class stacking like that. My suggestion would be specifying a small list of allowed features, or advancing at 1/2 rather than full (and allowing you to pick the same ability twice so you can either advance two abilities at 1/2, or one at full).

    Skilled Rite of Combat:
    Divine Rage: So.. a level 5 Hero rages ten times per day, as a tenth level Barbarian? That really leaves the Barbarian out in the cold. Maybe instead allow the user to use the other variant they didn't pick? (ie, if you take this and Berserk Fury you get to choose when you 'rage' if you want to Rage or Whirling Frenzy?)
    Swift-Footed: Looks solid to me :)
    Lord of Monsters: Very very powerful ability with an immense amount of utility, and again it stacks outside the class. I'd make it 1/day when you take it, and 2/day at lvl 5 (if people want it more often they can take the appropriate feat for extra uses of an SLA), and make it Summon Monster VI when you first take it, upping to VII at lvl 5.
    Also, possibly allow it to be Summon Monster or Summon Nature's Ally, your choice when you take the ability? That covers nature-types
    Unified Practise: Scrap it and see Continued Training
    True Weapon Master: No issues here, though you may want to specify that when you use it with a Maneuver, you don't duplicate the maneuver ;)
    Wielder of Unknown Power: As Unified Practice & Continued Training. Scrap it
    Terrifying Aspect: Good ability, but I think a slight retool is needed. Make it DC 10+Hero level +Cha Mod, maybe another + 2 per five ranks in Intimidate. Make it all will but activated as a swift action.

    Weapon Mastery: Subsumed by the bonus feats at 2 & 4

    A Good Death: Interesting ability, but it again suffers from "Stack outside your level" syndrome.
    My suggestion would be make it either:
    1) "Your thirst for battle is not quenched even by death. As long as you died in combat, you may be raised from the dead with no level loss"
    2) "Your prowess in battle is so renowned that as long as your legend lives, so do you. Any time you die in battle in a heroic manner you may rise again the next dawn as though True Ressurected"

    The main issues that I see with this class as written are twofold:
    1) You're having a habit of giving away other class' fun toys (rage, Weapon X feats) for free, and on top of a pile of other class abilities.
    2) The class abilty stacking abuse is monumental. As currently written:
    A Warblade 6/Binder 1/Totemist 1 (assuming fractional BaB)/Hero of Epic 5 is effectively a Warblade 6/Binder 6/Totemist 6
    Or a Binder 1/Warblade 7/Hero 5 is a Warblade 11 (thanks to the 'half other classes count for pre-reqs' thing of martial classes)/Binder 6

    Those two are just using "Continued Training", throw in "Skilled Rite of Combat" and it gets more ridiculous. One level dips in a spellcasting class become four levels for the price of one, a Warblade 6/Barbarian 1/Hero 5, taking Berserk Fury, Martial Student, Divine Rage & Unified Practice (Rage) uses maneuvers as a Warblade 10 and Rages as a 16th level Barbarian (but with 12 uses per day) at level 12.
    Duskblade 6/Sorcerer 1/Rogue 1/Cleric 1/Hero 5 is a 9th level Duskblade caster with 3d6 Sneak Attack and four levels in Sorcerer & Cleric. A Monk 8/Rogue 1/Swordsage 1/Ninja 1/Hero 5 just got Unarmed Damage, Speed, Slow Fall, etc etc of a 13th level monk, 3d6 sneak attack, 3d6 sudden strike, and ten Martial maneuvers.
    You get the idea :)

    I can see where you're coming from with trying to unify the Fighter style classes so that you can fit a theme rather than having to dip a dozen classes, but you just seem to be trying to do too much and allow way too much crossover. Chuck out the ludicrous "Continue previous class" stuff and throw in more martial options :)
    Last edited by Kittenwolf; 2011-11-17 at 11:34 AM.
    Super cute Catgirl Avatar by Kymme

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •