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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Wraith's Avatar

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    Default Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    40k-in-the-Playground presents...
    Cheesegear's Newbie Guide on How to pick Warhammer 40K army
    by Cheesegear and GitP contributors

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    Disclaimer: This is not a guide to say which armies are 'better' than other armies. Except in hyperbole. The 'stars' notation is for what Newbies should play. By no means does this mean that you shouldn't play Chaos Daemons. It means that if you're a new player and don't fully understand the rules to the game, it might be hard to make Daemons work.

    Any unit that gets specifically mentioned is a stand-out unit, or will represent a 'must-have' unit that the army has.

    General Advice for all armies;
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    • Where possible, you should always talk to a GW Staff Member. No, you don't have to actually listen to or do anything they say. But, you should at least talk to them so they can point you in at least a general direction. Don't buy anything on your first trip into the store. GW Staff are very persuasive, and you can - or will - often end up buying something you don't even want.
    • If and when you do finally decide on an army, play a few games in an actual GW Store using the Store's models. Otherwise, where possible, use proxy models. This will give you a basic understanding of most of the rules and the turn sequence and a general idea of how your army-of-choice plays. Or, at least give you an idea that an army or unit that you thought was cool, really isn't. Or maybe that particular army just isn't for you. And that unit that 'looks cool' doesn't fit your play style.
    • Read a Codex. Whatever gets said on the internet, means absolutely nothing if you don't have a Codex to understand what's being said. This ties into the above in that it's kind of important that you have played a few games and know the rules.
    • GW doesn't mention it all that much, but; You don't have to use your army's Codex for your army. For example; It's perfectly reasonable to, say, use the Chaos Space Marine Codex to represent a 1st Company of Loyalist Marines. You can, in fact, use Imperial Guard models to represent Tau, or Eldar. Just so long as your models look suitably awesome and your models conform to the rules of a different list (the WYSIWYG rule). If you can also give a background justification - or 'fluffy' reason - for why your Imperial Guard are wielding Shuriken or Pulse Rifles; Even better!
    • In regards to the above; 'Counts as' models can generally be shown to be a fluffy reason for why you have what you have. So, maybe your Imperial Guard regiment has a lot of Ogryns. You can use an Ogryn-holding-a-Lascannon as your 'Heavy Weapon Team'. As long as it's WYSIWYG, and at least makes a passing attempt at conforming to the rules (such as base size/shape), nobody cares. However, GW really doesn't like it when you come into their store and start using a different company's miniatures to play a GW game. However, making a scratch-build from Green Stuff and Plasticard is totally okay. Just so long as you aren't giving their competitors money, eh?
    • With that said; Painting, Green Stuff, Plasticard and Conversions in general, the only way to get better at it, is to practice. Start easy, start small. Start with adding cloaks to troops. Large, rectangular pieces of Green Stuff. Easy. Maybe you'll be confident to add textures. Ability comes with practice. And, there are literally dozens of tutorials to be found on YouTube. And hundreds of tutorials just about everywhere else.
    • Less is more. Don't try to equip your unit to do everything. Assign your units to fulfill a role, and let them do it. Don't waste points on things you aren't going to use.
    • Bodies are far more important than Wargear. Do not spend 100 extra points on Wargear, if you could otherwise spend 100 points on buying a whole unit. Wargear is not a substitute for models. Well, it is. But, it's a poor substitute.
    • In regards to the above two points, very rarely, should you spend more than 200 points on a single model (such as an HQ model), or 300 points on a single unit.
    • Troops. Win. Games. Do not, under any circumstances, skimp out on your Troops selection. More often than not they are the cheapest unit in the Codex, and, Troops are the only units who can capture an objective. Any unit can contest an objective, but, only Troops can claim objectives. All contesting objectives will do is get you is a Draw.
    • Assault on Black Reach. Bad for Space Marine players. Good for Ork Players.
    • Vehicles and You.
    • Cheesegear's Speaking Of Tournaments.... General themes to consider when attending a competitive arena.
    • To Tailor Your List Or Not To Tailor
    • Wraith's Handy-Dandy Guide to Painting and Assembling an Army
    • Closet_Skeleton says:
      "Every Troops choice you spend on a non-Scoring unit is Troops choice wasted."
    • How To Write An Army List | Sample
    • Should you buy a Battleforce? In most cases, yes.
    • How about Megaforces? Dark Eldar are okay, and Space Marines.... aren't.


    Guide to Armies
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    Space Marines (Codex Marines, SMs):
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    Pros: Space Marines are the eponymous 40K army. They are the army by which all other armies are judged. Just about all their units can be outfitted in many different ways to fulfill many different roles (but, in regards to General Advice, they should only try to do one thing at a time). With few exceptions, the entire army selection is plastic for easy conversions and assembly (and, most of the metal models you don't even need). As plastics, the army is also relatively cheap to buy.
    GW Staff are extremely knowledgeable on all things Space Marine.
    Troops unit choice with the ability to Infiltrate and have Sniper Rifles.
    Power Armour and Bolters.

    Cons: Honestly, none. Save for the common misinformation that GW Staff will tell you to get you to buy certain units and sets (like Assault on Black Reach). But, this is by no means bad. As a Space Marine is a Space Marine. And pretty much all the units in the Codex can be useful one way or another.
    One such example is that there is a growing proportion of Space Marine players who feel - despite the fluff and the statline - that Scout Squads are superior to Tactical Squads (the reason why is outside the scope of this guide).
    The only truly bad thing about Space Marines, is that everybody has them. GW sells them at every opportunity. All starter sets ever produced by GW has contained Space Marines as one of the 'learner' armies. By extension, a lot of people turn to Space Marines because that's what they learned the game with, but, what they don't realise, is that the Assault on Black Reach starter kit is weak.

    Recommendation for Newbs; *****. But the Assault on Black Reach kit isn't a good start to a Space Marine army. GW likes misinformation.
    * or ** depending on whether or not you care about being 'just like everyone else'.
    What's so bad about AoBR?

    Codex Space Marines theoretically allows you to build 7 different 'themes' of Space Marines (even though it's 6) based around what colours and which Special Characters you like. However, any special character can be used in any Chapter, painted any colour that you choose. So, really, what Chapter you choose is kind of irrelevant since you can use other Chapters' special characters anyway.

    The common belief is that 'Space Marines is Space Marines'. They all have Power Armour and Bolters. All of the above applies to the below;
    Dark Angels: Errata is essential. Essentially a carbon copy of Codex Marines with the option to play Ravenwing (all bikes) or Deathwing (all Terminators). Both of which, for the most part, can be done much better by Codex: Space Marines and either Grey Knights/Space Wolves, respectively. *
    Black Templars: You will need the FAQ. Slightly more focused on close combat. With some unique rules. ***
    Space Wolves: Space Wolves are actually the 'most fair' list out of all the Space Marine variants. They're a solid list. They have no actual 'bad' or 'trap' units. ****
    Blood Angels: The only real difference in the List is more options to take Jump Packs, Fast vehicles, and a slight bonus to Deep Striking. Staggeringly similar to Codex Marines otherwise and you wont actually lose much by playing Blood Angels. ****

    What if you like one particular unit more than the others? Which Codex would be best for you?


    Chaos Space Marines (Chaos Marines, CSMs):
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    Like Space Marines, but Evil. So, just about everything that applies to Space Marines applies to Chaos Space Marines.
    Pros: Chaos Space Marines are slightly more focused on close combat than their Imperial counterparts - but, by no means to they have to be. CSMs are not necessarily 'better' than regular SMs. Just...Different. Each faction has different toys at their disposal.
    There are a variety of different ways you can outfit your squads, and it's kind of difficult to find any two CSM armies the same.
    Power Armour and Bolters.
    Converting your 'Starter Box' Space Marine army to Chaos Marines is fairly easy. Just add spikes and arrows and mutations.

    Cons: There are options in the Codex. Too many options some say. It's very easy to get confused on what or what not to get for your squads and characters. And it's even easier to go overboard on wargear and skills and the like (remember; Wargear != Bodies).
    CSMs are also a fairly commonly seen army as they cater to the people who want to play Space Marines, but, think that 'Evil is Cool'. Some do consider who they get associated with as a bad thing.
    The 'some of everything' approach that a lot of new players have when collecting their armies doesn't really work for Chaos Marines. Most of the time, you're best off going all-out on one or two of the Cult units (below).

    Recommendation for Newbies: ****

    Chaos Space Marines (Cults):

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    Contributions supplied by Winterwind, DaedalusMkV and unknowingly by Myatar Panwar

    World Eaters/Khorne-based/Beserkers:
    Lots of attacks...Aaand...That's about it. Khorne Beserkers have WS 5 and also gain Furious Charge, meaning that when Assaulting, they're hitting and wounding most things on 3s and 2/3s. Their initiative 5 (when Assaulting) helps them a lot when they can strike before most enemies and kill them before they get attacks back. Khorne Berzerkers are fairly good at what they do, but, their individual unit effectiveness is directly proportional to their opponent's armour save.
    Meaning, that, for the most part, you need lots of Beserkers. Lots. Khorne Beserker armies also don't function very well without Rhinos, as their only ranged weapons are Pistols. So, this is a lot of currency. On top of which; As they lack ranged weapons, Obliterators, Vindicators and Defilers are almost required for the army.
    Khorne Lords and Daemon Princes are considered to be the least efficient. The Daemon Weapon gives you double the chance to hurt yourself. As well as +2D6 Power Weapon attacks is pretty much overkill. You don't really need that many.
    Their special character - Kharn - is quite good though.
    *** You will need Rhinos. Luckily, Berzerkers come in boxes of 12 (which is more than the other Cult units) and are plastic. Which is good.

    Thousand Sons/Tzeentch-based:
    All models with the Mark of Tzeentch gain an Invulnerable save. Or, their save gets improved if they already have one. This makes Tzeentch-based lists very tough to kill on the outset.
    Onto specialised units; Thousand Sons are a Troop choice that comes with a 4+ invulnerable save, and have AP3 Bolters. Perfect for objective-squatting. This also makes them deadly in ranged firefights - and their invulnerable save makes them hard to kill on the return. Being Slow and Purposeful, it's a good idea to get as much use our their Bolters as you can get.
    Thousand Sons also have a Sorcerer as their 'Sergeant'. Chaos Psychic Powers being as they are, this is quite good, as most 'shooting' powers tend to be AP3 or better, or allow no save at all. The Sorcerer also comes with a Force Weapon (add Warptime for fun). Meaning units with an Independent Character kind of need to think twice before Assaulting Thousand Sons units.
    However, units without Independent Characters (that you can't target), and other dedicated Assault units will have an easy time. As Thousand Sons are the worst Assault unit in the Codex. But, this isn't saying a whole lot, as they're still Space Marines.
    Tzeentch Daemon Princes and Sorcerers are quite good, able to choose and use two powers in the same turn. As well as receiving a better Invulnerable save. Tzeentch Lords are 'okay'. The Tzeentch special character - Ahriman - is pretty good. But, far too overpoints'd.
    *** Thousand Sons boxes are expensive. But, you get plenty in a box.

    Emperor's Children/Slaanesh-based/Noise Marines:
    Marks of Slaanesh add to Initiative. This means pretty much everything in the CSM army will be functioning at Initiative 5. If you're unit holds Power Weapons, you can do a lot of damage before your opponent even gets to attack.
    Noise Marines. Are. Amazing. Sonic Blasters are essentially Storm Bolters that get an extra shot if you're standing still. A Blastmaster, is a S8, AP3 Blast weapon that causes Pinning. Do you want yet? Just before Assaulting, the Noise Marine Champion has access to a S5, AP3 Flamer. This will kill things dead. Then Assault, at Initiative 5 (if you're opponent didn't fail their Morale check from you shooting the crap out of them, that is) and you can do some serious damage.
    Daemon Princes and Sorcerers gain Lash of Submission. Usually considered one of the more unfair psychic powers as it allows you to move your opponent's models. Where? Into Dangerous Terrain, out of their precious cover, towards your own models into Assault range, or even just moving their Heavy Weapon team out of LoS.
    Chaos Lords with Blissgiver are perfect Character killers as with 3+D6 attacks and Initiative 6, they only need to cause one wound (with a 'Power Weapon') to kill pretty much anything they want.
    Lucius the Eternal is just as good as - if not better than - Kharn. And doesn't even cost that many points.
    **** The Noise Marine box doesn't come with with many Sonic Blasters. They are, however, available in bulk from Mail Order. But, they're not that important. You're really only getting Noise Marines for Blastmasters and Doom Sirens.

    Death Guard/Nurgle-based/Plague Marines:
    Extra Toughness. Might not seem like much. But, it's (usually) the most expensive Mark for units that can take it for a reason. Works best on models in Terminator Armour or models on Bikes.
    Plauge Marines are pretty much exactly the same as regular Chaos Marines, except with Toughness 5 and Feel No Pain. They're extremely hard to kill. On top of which, they have Defensive Grenades. And that's pretty good. Aaand...That's about it actually. Not much can be said about Plague Marines except exactly that.
    The Mark of Nurgle is mostly wasted on Daemon Princes as they don't really need the extra Toughness compared to what else they could take and Sorcerers on gain access to Nurgle's Rot, which, again, compared to other powers, isn't that great. As Nurgle's Rot works best in close combat. But, Nurgle Sorcerers only get one psychic power per turn. So, it's Nova, or use the Force Weapon.
    On Chaos Lords (especially in Terminator Armour), the Mark of Nurgle is alright. Giving access to a reasonably good Daemon Weapon.
    The special character for Death Guard is Typhus. He's pretty damn good. Opinion appears to be divided on whether or not he's worth the points. He has Wind of Chaos, and Nurgle's Rot (otherwise known as Nurgle's Nova). And he auto-passes all psychic tests when using those powers. As well as having the Nurgle-based Daemon Weapon, that also counts as a Force Weapon. As well as Terminator Armour and Defensive Grenades. Whether you like him or not is your choice.
    **** Plague Marines are pretty boring for options. But, Toughness 5 and Feel No Pain are really, really good. And the Mark of Nurgle is usually the most expensive Mark for those who would get any real use out of it.


    Tyranids ('Nids):
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    If you think of the movie Alien, or Starship Troopers, Tyranids aren't far off the mark.
    Pros: Tyranids are primarily seen as a close combat swarm army. The big Tyranids are extremely customisable and immensely powerful in whatever role you want to give them (but you should only choose one role at a time, remember), and, the smaller Tyranids come in massive numbers designed to make your opponent crap themselves on just how many bodies you can put on the table. The Tyranids also possess one of the most deadly close combat units in the entire game.
    A Troops choice that can Infiltrate.
    Most of the army is plastic. And, many of the metal models you only need a few of. So, per box, Tyranids are pretty cheap. Also, the Tyranid Battleforce is generally considered the 'best' one. Although, it's definitely recommended by most of the internet that you get two.

    Cons: Like CSMs, it's often possible to overload your Monstrous Creatures with too many biomorphs (wargear), which gets expensive. Fast. And, many of the smaller Tyranids are designed for one unchangeable role. The smaller Tyranids can't adapt their units for what they want to do. A Tyranid army is usually seen as very shooty-heavy, or very assault-heavy. It very - extremely rarely - can be both. Often, trying to be both is actually a detriment to the Tyranid army.

    Without the bigger Tyranids to back them up, the smaller Tyranids suddenly become a lot more vulnerable, partly because they already have low toughness and high armour saves to begin with. Therefore, you may need to spend a bit of money on the larger, more expensive models.
    As a swarm army, box-per-box, you also don't get very many points in each box. This means you'll probably have to end up spending a lot of money to get a decent amount of points onto the table.

    Also, like SMs and CSMs, if a 14 year old kid isn't playing SMs or CSMs, then they're playing Tyranids.

    Recommendation for Newbies: ** to ****. Depending on how much real-world currency you have to spend. If you don't have a lot of money, you wont be able to field a lot of bodies or acquire the larger Monstrous Creatures. If you can field ~50 Termagants and 50 Hormagaunts per battle and have Monstrous Creatures to back them up...Good.


    Eldar:
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    Elves. In SPAAACE!
    Pros: The Eldar boast a 'swiss army knife' army. They have a unit for everything and every unit can do their job well. Each and every unit looks vastly different to every other unit, and are actually supposed to be painted in different colours to each other. So, you have a huge variety of models and colours. If variety is important to you.
    Most of the army can Fleet. All Eldar tanks are Fast, Skimmers, and the army contains Eldar Jetbikes (which have different rules to 'normal' Jetbikes). In short, the Eldar army boasts speed and maneuverability.
    As with their Infantry, they also have HQ units to fit certain roles. An Autarch can be outfitted to suit almost any battlefield role. Eldar Farseers and Seer Councils are powerful psykers. And the Avatar is a close combat Monster (literally).
    A lot of the metal models in the range come in reasonable sized boxes at a (fairly) reasonable price. The good news is, you usually don't need too many of the metal models.
    Troops unit choice with the ability to Infiltrate and have Sniper Rifles.
    A Wraithlord is one of the scariest models in the game. An absurdly high Toughness and a reasonable armour save. And can kill troops and heavy armour with equal ease. Often at the same time. It's strength 10 and Monstrous Creature status also means it can rip apart tanks even when it's guns are suited to killing Infantry. It even causes Instant Death on most Infantry that attack it. Including a lot of HQ characters.
    Wraithguard are like smaller Wraithlords high Strength and Toughness, with a good save and toting around deadly guns.
    ...It's possible to build an entire army out of Wraithguard and Wraithlords.

    Cons: Low 'Elf' Toughness.
    The sheer amount of variety can sometimes make it hard to decide which units to take. Especially since some of the units in the Eldar army overlap, but, achieve their role in slightly different ways. And it's these 'slightly different ways' that can make or break the unit depending on your opponent. Some particular units are even useless or near-useless depending on your opponent.
    Every unit fills a role. And is unadaptive. You can't manipulate any squad to do anything other than what it was designed to do (except Dire Avengers). And, in smaller point games where you can't afford to take every unit you want, you'll know that you're missing that unit. Because nothing else you have will be able to perform as well as the missing unit.
    It's these missing units that make of most of the metal models that will be in your army. You'll need the metal models.
    Individual Wraithguard units can often be prohibitively expensive in currency.
    Taking too many Wraithlords in your army will have people crying for curdled dairy products. That is; Cheese. In lower point games, just one Wraithlord is enough for "OMG! Cheese!" cries.

    Recommendation for Newbies: *** or ****. The Eldar army is an army where it's hard - but not impossible - to go wrong. With such a huge mandatory variety in models, an 'I want every unit' mindset (common in newbies) is actually beneficial to the Eldar army setup.


    Dark Eldar (DE):
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    Like Eldar, but evil (there's an argument that Dark Eldar are more evil than 'regular Chaos'). But much, much different in play-style from Eldar, than SM's are from CSM's.

    Stuff About HQ Choices
    Stuff About Everything Else
    Stuff About Special Characters
    Cheesegear says: "The Dark Eldar one is...Fairly out of date. Sliscus rules. Razorwings kick arse and Venoms are potentially the best Transport in the game - oh man was I wrong on that score!"

    Recommendation for Newbies: ** or ***. The Dark Eldar are easy to learn, but hard to master. But, once mastered...The Dark Eldar tend to either win by a significant margin (often by Turn 3 or 4), or lose spectacularly (by Turn 5 or 6).


    Tau:
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    With help provided by Nameless Ghost, Ricky S and Selrahc

    Tau are the archetypal alien race. Very progressive technology and a near-utopic society. Also draws several parallels to Mechs and Exosuits - if you like that sort of thing.
    Pros: Firepower. You want a really 'Shooty' army? You pick Tau.
    Like Necrons and Space Marines, you actually can't go very far wrong with the 'normal' Troop choice; Fire Warriors. They have a decent save of 4+, so they aren't dying en masse to Bolter fire. And they boast the best base-Troop weapon in the game. Yes. Better than Bolters. Easily. Their Transport (Devilfish), similarly, for it's points cost is one of the best in the game. Second only to the Eldar Wave Serpent. You can field a very respectable army fielding nothing but Fire Warriors and Devilfish - just bring some anti-armour weapons.

    HQ and Elites choices field some very respectable units in the form of Crisis Suits and Stealth Teams. Effectively your Mechs/Exosuits/Gears. With their ability to take a wide array of guns, on top of their ability to fire at multiple units at the same time, it makes them a very nice support unit for your Fire Warriors. Or, even a front-line squadron if you're brave enough. Crisis Suits also possess Jet Packs, rather than Jump Packs. Which is a really cool bonus to have. As it allows you to move in the Assault phase for move-shoot-move combos like Eldar Jetbikes.

    Tau Heavy Support though is what you're really looking at. Broadsides are exactly what their name suggests if you're into Naval Warfare. Broadsides carry Railguns; High-strength guns designed to annihilate whatever they're pointed at. And they do it well too.
    This author would be remiss if he didn't also mention Hammerheads. One of the better tanks in the game.

    Cons: Tau fold like paper in Assault. What they do in Shooting, they lose out in Assault. Even worse than Necrons. Low Weapon Skill, low Toughness, low Initiative, and no access to Power Weapons or weapons that don't allow saves in Assault. Their decent armour saves them somewhat, but not much.

    The Tau also have more than their fair share of 'trap' units. Which, outside of Themed Lists, don't actually do very well.
    Like taking Kroot. Kroot are better in Assault than pretty much anything else in the army, but, that's not really saying much. You're best off with more Fire Warriors.
    Ethereals are extremely good. But, your opponent will pretty much always target him first. And then he becomes a massive liability for your army.

    Like Tyranids and Chaos Marines, it's kind of hard not to go overboard on Wargear options on your Crisis Suits, because they're all just so good. Leaving you fewer points to spend on Fire Warriors. Not only that, Crisis Suits are not Terminators, and don't do real well under fire.

    Heavy Support choices are expensive in points. Problem is, if you don't take them, you're seriously missing out on some really impressive firepower options.

    Recommendation for Newbs; *** The Battleforce is one of the better ones around, so long as you remember that the Kroot are essentially 'free'; If you didn't pay currency for them, you're under no obligation to use them. Replace them with Fire Warriors as soon as you can. The Tau way of battle also requires a lot of tactics to use well (similar to Eldar), in that you need to prioritise fire and occasionally you have no choice but to sacrifice the odd unit here and there. Tau often play very static roles, unless you shell out extra currency for Devilfish. Which isn't always the best thing in the world. And no. There really isn't a way around being bad at Assault. The best thing you can hope for is that you've shot the crap out of your enemy before they get there.


    Chaos Daemons (Daemons, CDs)
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    Daemons. They come out of the Warp to eat your face. That's about all you need to know.
    Pros: Chaos Daemons, as an army, possess some of the more powerful units in the game. Strong HQs, strong Elites, reasonably impressive Fast Attack, and some strong Heavy Support in the form of Soul Grinders and Daemon Princes.
    The entire army is Invulnerable and sports Eternal Warrior and Fearless on every single unit except the Soul Grinder. But, as a Daemon, the Soul Grinder gets some pretty impressive things on its own. So, Power Weapons and other low AP ranged weapons don't really have any extra effect on Daemons. Your opponent is basically wasting points.
    Very powerful Assault army if you can get it there. It only takes three or four models to wipe out an opposing unit of 10 even on a fairly average day.
    Very fast army. A number of Beasts/Cavalry and Jump Infantry units, and the whole army Deep Strikes.
    High diversity and distinctive imagery of all it's units.
    Most of the army is plastic (or soon will be), which keeps currency costs low.

    Cons: *Deep Breath* Well, deployment. Before any game even starts, you're at a disadvantage. You can't actually plan with Chaos Daemons. Before the game starts, divide your army in half. Half your army arrives on Turn 1 via Deep Strike, and the rest of the army trickles in over the rest of the game.

    ...The really annoying part, is that you don't actually get to pick which half you get on the first turn. The only way to make a 'plan' with Daemons, is to have symmetrical halves, so, no matter what comes down, you've got what you want. Which means, all that diversity in models goes out the window as you now need to duplicate every unit. Leading to 'cookie cutter' units. Which nobody really likes - unless you want that.

    Yeah, the entire army arrives via Deep Strike and reserves. It's both good and bad, it's more often bad. Since Chaos Daemons have a real lack of shooting. The opposite of Tau, who have low Assault. But, due to Deep Striking, and the disallowance of Assault, your army will get shot at before you get to Assault with your units.

    This is solved by 'aggressive Deep Striking', which is ignoring terrain difficulties, and deploying as close to your enemy as you possibly can so you can Assault next turn. This means that you could take casualties from Difficult Terrain, and following Shooting phase from your opponent. To do this, you need lots of models, which costs currency.

    The Codex - like Eldar - has a higher-than-normal amount of unit redundancy. Some of those diverse units that you like, just wont be taken because there are other units that can do the same job, better. Like Necrons, Daemons' Elites and Fast Attack choices are mostly just more powerful versions of the Troops units. Because of this reason, Daemons' Troops are pretty lackluster in comparison to everything else. Except that you have to take Troops...well, because they're your Troops. Which is even worse because those Troops units aren't exactly cheap in points.

    With such a low save, Fearless is quite often a hindrance. And, unlike Orks or Tyranids, Daemons don't usually have the numbers to keep up a sustained losing-assault. But, Daemons don't usually lose Assault (even with such small unit sizes). So, you've got that.

    Recommendation for Newbies: * The deployment rules are like nothing a new player would be able to deal with. Not to mention the complexity and tactics that you need with a Chaos Daemons army in order to win.
    ** If you really like the imagery and painting/conversion opportunities that Chaos Daemons presents.
    Sadly, Daemons are more Cons than Pros unless you build your list a specific way. Which you - a new player - probably wont do.


    Grey Knights (GKs):
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    Super-Massive-Long-Posts-of-DOOOOOOM provided by Cheesegear.


    Recommendation for Newbies: ** or ***
    On the one hand, Grey Knights are very hard to build properly. There's lots of weird and wonderful wargear and squads to choose from and they all look so good.... But it's easy to pick all the wrong ones, for all the wrong reasons, and end up paying through the nose for the privelage.

    On the other: Get the balance right, pick the right units with the right wargear and send them to do the right tasks, and they can easily break almost any other army in the game apart with surprisingly little effort. Grey Knights are tremendously powerful if you use them correctly. They are utterly unforgiving if you get it wrong.


    The Necrons:
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    Tomb Kings IN SPAAAAAAAACE! Legions of soulless, undying automatons cruising around the galaxy, atomizing everything in their path. Except for the senile, insane ones, who invite you to tea and then atomize you after you've finished the biscuits. What's not to like?

    What Winterwind Thinks About Necrons.
    What Cheesegear Thinks About Necrons.
    What Cheesegear Thinks About Necron Special Characters.

    Recommendation for Newbies: ***
    Necrons are tough, with good armour and good guns, so it's hard to really use them "badly". It requires a bit of a knack to get the best out of the units in the book though, as well as needing a very careful understanding of their many special rules work and interact.


    Orks: *** to ***** depending on how much currency you have (horde army). Extra points because it's the more useful of the AoBR Starter Armies. So, a decent Ork army actually comes stock in the 'newbie box'.

    Imperial Guard (IG): * to ***** depending on how much currency you have. A ***** IG army is the single-most expensive army in the entire game. Even more than the old, fully-metal Daemonhunters.
    About Imperial Guard Tanks.


    Still to come;
    Imperial Guard [2009], Witch Hunters [2003], Sisters of Battle [2011 - WD edition] and Orks [2009].
    These armies I have lot of experience with. Send PMs if you believe you have advice that I might leave out.

    Actually looking for, or things I can't write myself;
    More General Advice (I think I've covered most of it).

    SEND PMs. Don't Derail Thread.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by filvento View Post
    Whats the point of Taking a Catacomb command barage if you dont have a warschyte to destroy vehicles and kill several units?
    Maybe for mobility?

    Trazyn's Empathic Obliterator might still be useful- fly over the unit, make sweep attacks, and watch as it affects several other enemies in the unit.

    Anrakyr the Traveller comes with a warscythe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    The Necrons are here! And... that's pretty much it. We don't really know how they work yet, but gosh-darnit if we're not going to complain about a lot of it.....
    Waaaaaaard!!!!! *shakes fist*

    I'm just posting this to mark the thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    I'm skeptical of the Ghost Ark, simply because there's a big difference between a lasplasback's lascannon and plasmagun sponsons (or is it the other way around), and a gauss flux array supported by it's passengers; Namely, the former is good against bigger, heavier targets, while the other is more of an anti-infantry weapon, since even though you're getting 15-20 shots from the latter, it's also only glancing a vehicle or wounding a T6 monstrous creature on a 6, and it doesn't have the lasplasback's High AP value against high value footslogging targets.


    Unless the flux arc has completely been changed, in which case, never mind. Ungh... I gotta get my hands on the new codex this week.
    Reposted since no one really had a chance to respond last time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Maybe for mobility?

    Trazyn's Empathic Obliterator might still be useful- fly over the unit, make sweep attacks, and watch as it affects several other enemies in the unit.

    Anrakyr the Traveller comes with a warscythe.
    Yea.. but the mobility is not much just for ONE HQ going alone.
    I prefer something kewl that goes around , killing stuff you know.
    And in a list like 1500 i wouldnt include 2 Chracters.. and Imotek has to get in! Its pretty nasty are more for those Ghost ark Strategy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    I'm skeptical of the Ghost Ark, simply because there's a big difference between a lasplasback's lascannon and plasmagun sponsons (or is it the other way around), and a gauss flux array supported by it's passengers; Namely, the former is good against bigger, heavier targets, while the other is more of an anti-infantry weapon, since even though you're getting 15-20 shots from the latter, it's also only glancing a vehicle or wounding a T6 monstrous creature on a 6, and it doesn't have the lasplasback's High AP value against high value footslogging targets.


    Unless the flux arc has completely been changed, in which case, never mind. Ungh... I gotta get my hands on the new codex this week.
    Well.. i think this are pretty good. After all you cant expect the Ghost Ark to do Everything, right? Its just one more unit.. And is not that expensive. Also.. they give great mobility to our warriors, and also it regenerate them. I think its pretty nasty with 13/13/11 and 1 and 2 does nothing to them since Living metal. Gauss Flux Arc is S4 AP5 3 shoots and its heavy. And it can fire to different units. I think its pretty nasty. And The ghost ark just costs 115?

    Im still thinking on a list, but this is what i think.. i will DEFENITLY Include 2 Ghost arks full of warriors and Imotek the Stormlord.

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    Aww, if I knew everyone can make new thread, I'd make it :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by filvento View Post
    Yea.. but the mobility is not much just for ONE HQ going alone.
    I prefer something kewl that goes around , killing stuff you know.
    And in a list like 1500 i wouldnt include 2 Chracters.. and Imotek has to get in! Its pretty nasty are more for those Ghost ark Strategy.
    I don't know how the new codex will shape up, but at that point value, I often found myself running 2 lords. Then again, this is back when a Res orb had become a must-have for every lord.



    Well.. i think this are pretty good. After all you cant expect the Ghost Ark to do Everything, right? Its just one more unit.. And is not that expensive. Also.. they give great mobility to our warriors, and also it regenerate them. I think its pretty nasty with 13/13/11 and 1 and 2 does nothing to them since Living metal. Gauss Flux Arc is S4 AP5 3 shoots and its heavy. And it can fire to different units. I think its pretty nasty. And The ghost ark just costs 115?

    Im still thinking on a list, but this is what i think.. i will DEFENITLY Include 2 Ghost arks full of warriors and Imotek the Stormlord.
    Bolded test is my addition or emphasis, obviously
    Err... The bolded text is including the cost of 5 warriors, right? Because 115 points for a dedicated transport is... kind of scary to me.


    And I'm not saying the Ghost Ark is bad, I'm just saying I'm skeptical of it's ability to perform in a metagame dominated by mechanized forces. A lasplasback has can fight against other mechanized forces with a the plasmagun sponsons being able to penetrate light vehicles, and the lascannon being able to pen AP 14. The best a Ghost Ark can do is stunlock them, short of massed fire.

    EDIT: I think part of the reason people are excited about the Ghost ark has something to do with Warriors getting a 33% price drop. A squad of 5 warriors in a ghost ark now has half again as much firepower as a squad of 10 warriors used to*, is more mobile, has only a small drop in survivability thanks to a vehicle to hide in, and it still costs 5 fewer points than that squad of warriors used to. That's definitely a power boost. EDIT2: Rear armor value 11 on every revealed vehicle is a nice touch, though, since it means powerfistless marines can't glance it in assault.

    *Assuming the squad of warriors fires at the same target as one of the broadsides does, it will have just as much firepower as 10 warriors on their own do, and you still have the other broadside shooting at something else.
    Last edited by Squark; 2011-11-07 at 02:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Nope. 115 for the Ark alone.

    For that, however, you get an open topped vehicle (so everyone can fire out) with not terrible armour (until you take a penetrating hit) that repairs nearby Warriors and has a bunch of guns itself.

    Ok, so the open topped-ness is a point for squishability, but still. 13 armour until a penetrating hit isn't that bad... is it?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    The ghost ark flayer arrays consist of five gauss flayers, a bit like a hurricane bolter. They are set up like a sponson so you cant fire all ten gauss flayers at a single target.

    The ghost ark is also silly expensive for something that is so vulnerable and I really wonder if the repair function is worth nine warriors.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Borgh View Post
    The ghost ark flayer arrays consist of five gauss flayers, a bit like a hurricane bolter. They are set up like a sponson so you cant fire all ten gauss flayers at a single target.

    The ghost ark is also silly expensive for something that is so vulnerable and I really wonder if the repair function is worth nine warriors.
    So, the real question is, barring interactions with individual lords (which I'm really not in a position to comment on), which troop choice serves your purpose the best?

    - 5-10 warriors (60-120 pts)
    - 5-10 immortals (85-170 pts)
    - 5-10 warriors in a ghost ark (175 pts-235 pts)
    - 5-10 warriors in a Night Scythe (160-220 pts)
    - 5-10 immortals in a Night Scythe (185-270 pts)
    (Squad sizes bigger than 10 may be possible. Again, do not have codex)

    Of these choices, I think the general consensus is footslogging is a bad way to go. This leaves us with a choice of Which arrangement of troops in a transport to take. Having no clue whatsoever what a Night Scythe is like (other than the fact that it is a fast skimmer with a portal to drop units out of and holds 15), I can't comment on which is the most effective.
    Last edited by Squark; 2011-11-07 at 03:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Why would footslogging be a bad idea? other then "because everyone Mechs, you should too" which I don't believe. Remember: its 115 points for questionable protection.

    I'm personally going for units of ten-fifteen warriors (most likely 12 due to the box they come in) but twice as many as anyone who brings Ghost arks. Immortals in a night scythe sounds like a plan for a high speed interception which will be cool too.

    edit: night scythe is 100 points.
    Last edited by Borgh; 2011-11-07 at 03:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Night Scythes would be good if any of the Necron Troops actually wanted to be in Assault, but they don't. You *MIGHT* consider using it as a pseudo-Land Raider for Lychguard, but at that point you're looking at 600+ points...

    Lord - 75pts
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    -- Night Scythe

    And then you'll want Zahndrehk to give them Furious Charge, though as far as I can tell there is very little reason not to take Zahndrehk in every single army. Him being stuck with a Staff hurts, but his special rules are simply too good.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Borgh View Post
    Why would footslogging be a bad idea? other then "because everyone Mechs, you should too" which I don't believe. Remember: its 115 points for questionable protection.
    Honestly, I'm not sure. I admit I'm parotting the Mech is King sentiment without entirely understanding why this is the case myself (As a general case. I've seen demonstrations of why Lasplasback>Rhino, but not why vehicle>non-vehicle). However, I do know that Necrons are still not closer to MEQ than a horde army, and to my knowledge horde armies are the only ones doing the footslogging. (The only explanation I've seen on why these armies are semi-viable is target saturation, but I confess I do not know why target saturation is so important)
    Last edited by Squark; 2011-11-07 at 03:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Honestly, I'm not sure. I admit I'm parotting the Mech is King sentiment without entirely understanding why this is the case myself (As a general case. I've seen demonstrations of why Lasplasback>Rhino, but not why vehicle>non-vehicle). However, I do know that Necrons are still not closer to MEQ than a horde army, and to my knowledge horde armies are the only ones doing the footslogging. (The only explanation I've seen on why these armies are semi-viable is target saturation, but I confess I do not know why target saturation is so important)
    Vehicles are more efficient (Points per Dakka), harder to kill (AV10 = T7), and faster than infantry.

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    Well, thinking about Ghost arks. its 115 points plus 65 = 180.
    If you take the old codex, then you get the same thing for 180, with more movilty, more firepower, and more chances to repair units back.

    If you get 10 necron warriors in every ghost arks, its a GREAT firepower for no more than 500 points. They are still a good transport.. and it gets 13/13/11 and no stun crew.

    I still dont have a nice idea of a list. I will include Wratihs, since they are still great.. Maybe a monolith?

    Im not sure.. But those Doom Schytes seem Nasty. That death ray its pretty cool and you can use it 1 per turn. Bye bye infantry.
    Last edited by filvento; 2011-11-07 at 04:43 PM.

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    NO. DON'T. Seriously don't. And an even bigger don't, don't mention pirating codexs on this board. Good way to get a thread locked.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    points per dakka: not the Ghost ark. sure it has 10 gaus flayers but it will have to spread fire which in my book is a bad idea outside of luxury situations.
    Survival: maybe. nine warriors (t4,4+ armour 5+ resurrection) or an open topped barge too large to effectively take cover. With the quantum shields it could take a lot of punishment to really bring down but even glancing hits can kill or immobilize it (being open topped)

    Extra value: the repair barge ability is cool as it even works into close combat. This would be the only reason for me to bring the bugger. Its just that as long as they are on board no warriors should die and none of the warriors should disembark unless the barge crashes so it is not nearly as cool as it looks on paper.

    EDIT at filvento: please remove that ASAP for the reasons squark mentioned.
    Last edited by Borgh; 2011-11-07 at 04:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Yea.. maybe. So if youd ot include Ghost arks ina list, what would u play?
    P.D: Sorry for the Link, didnt know... Its just an easy way to read it and dont spend alot of money in just a book...

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    And so I wake up early in the morning to start a new thread and it's been done without me.

    I was going to make a joke about Protocol Droids. But that works, too.

    ...Now to roll double-6s on Morale Checks. Let's do this!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    I did just that just now. Twice.
    To be frank, it wouldn't have changed anything even if I had succeeded.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Hmm... Let's evaluate the Ghost ark, then...

    Points per dakka; 5 warriors in a ghost ark compares to 13 or 15* warriors normally... If 13, it's iffy; If 15, clearly the warriors.

    Durability; depends on whether the enemy is packing pie plates or meltas and lascannons.

    Mobility... yeah

    So... I'm not sure which is honestly better.

    *I know a warrior is either twelve or thirteen points apiece, I'm just not sure which.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    A warrior is Thirteen a piece.
    Still, i think ghost arks can work.. They are not useless.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    This was a thing early in the last thread, but just to note, the second edition of Imperial Armour Apocalypse is now available on the GW U.S. site. So much for customer service knowing what they're on about.
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    Wait a second... Unless the codex specifically says otherwise (Or the gauss flayer has been raised to STR 5, which is cause for celebration in and of itself), gauss flayer arrays are defensive weapons... Meaning a Ghost Ark can fire both arrays even when at cruising speed, and, If I understand how open-topped vehicles work, can fire both arrays and let the warriors fire (as it's non-defensive weapon) and move 6 inches. That's... A game changer in that discussion. (The other possibility is that moving 6 inches will allow only 1 warrior to fire. I've never had to deal with an open-topped tank before, so I don't know how firing out of one and moving works).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Wait a second... Unless the codex specifically says otherwise (Or the gauss flayer has been raised to STR 5, which is cause for celebration in and of itself), gauss flayer arrays are defensive weapons... Meaning a Ghost Ark can fire both arrays even when at cruising speed, and, If I understand how open-topped vehicles work, can fire both arrays and let the warriors fire (as it's non-defensive weapon) and move 6 inches. That's... A game changer in that discussion. (The other possibility is that moving 6 inches will allow only 1 warrior to fire. I've never had to deal with an open-topped tank before, so I don't know how firing out of one and moving works).
    They can all fire. And yes, defensive weapons are what make Arcs good. But look at it this way:
    9 Immortals, 1 Cryptek or Necron Lord in a Ghost Arc. Since you go really really fast you can get it in Rapid Fire range by turn two. All in all 300ish points.
    5 Gauss flayer shots, and 18 Gauss blaster shots per Arc in turn two. And you can have 3 of those without straining your points that hard. Also they don't die ever, and are scoring. And Crypteks are really usefull (tank busting, anti Deep Strike, etc.)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Thats right you can move cruising speed and Shoot with warriors/inmortals, and shoot with the Gauss Arc.
    And yea, you can carry one necron lord with Staff of light, or anything that you want to shot. If get 2 of those, you get in rapid fire and its BOOM, and not that expensive.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by filvento View Post
    Thats right you can move cruising speed and Shoot with warriors/inmortals, and shoot with the Gauss Arc.
    And yea, you can carry one necron lord with Staff of light, or anything that you want to shot. If get 2 of those, you get in rapid fire and its BOOM, and not that expensive.
    I have lascannons.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodez View Post
    They can all fire. And yes, defensive weapons are what make Arcs good. But look at it this way:
    9 Immortals, 1 Cryptek or Necron Lord in a Ghost Arc. Since you go really really fast you can get it in Rapid Fire range by turn two. All in all 300ish points.
    5 Gauss flayer shots, and 18 Gauss blaster shots per Arc in turn two. And you can have 3 of those without straining your points that hard. Also they don't die ever, and are scoring. And Crypteks are really usefull (tank busting, anti Deep Strike, etc.)
    According to the site, Immortals cannot use a Ghost Ark. And compare that to a LasPlasBack or an Imperial Guard tank division.

    Quote Originally Posted by filvento View Post
    Thats right you can move cruising speed and Shoot with warriors/inmortals, and shoot with the Gauss Arc.
    And yea, you can carry one necron lord with Staff of light, or anything that you want to shot. If get 2 of those, you get in rapid fire and its BOOM, and not that expensive.
    Boom is not an adjective I would use to describe anything weaker than a gauss cannon. Let's remember, you're still relying completely on the Gauss weapon special rule to deal with Mechanized forces, and look what the metagame is swamped with... And no, you can't have your warriors fire at cruising speed, only at combat speed (<6 inches)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    According to the site, Immortals cannot use a Ghost Ark. And compare that to a LasPlasBack or an Imperial Guard tank division.
    Oh right, they can only use Night Scythes. Well, back to drawing board then.

    On other hand,
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    I have lascannons.
    This is what see as most of a problem with Necron transports. Anything with a reliable number of lascannons (say, two per Necron transport) will absolutely destroy it, because AV 13 is going down in first round, and they are not DE with their 5 and more vehicles on board.

    EDIT:
    Idea emerged as soon as I opened Codex.

    HQ (not relevant for this, let's say Overlord on Command Barge)
    5 Warriors, Cryptek with Harbringer of Storms
    Ghost Arc

    Now take 5 of those units. That totals to 1155 points. Rest are probably Elites/Heavy Support.

    OK, now we got decent anti-infantry (50 Gauss flayers) and goodish anti tank (25 Haywire shots per turn). A way of making Necron MSU work?
    Last edited by Sila Prirode; 2011-11-07 at 06:44 PM.
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