Systems with good non-combat systems?

[Dr. Roboto]

I've been looking through some game design articles while trying to stat up a new system, and I've found a few references to making social systems as robust as combat systems. Now, I know D&D best, but I've also taken a look at nWoD and GURPS, and it seems that everywhere I look combat has a plethora of options, while social systems boil down to a single roll with a lot of modifiers.

That goes for other things too. Are there any systems where the the social/stealth/whatever subsystems are as fleshed out as, say, D&D's combat system?

[Raum]

That goes for other things too. Are there any systems where the the social/stealth/whatever subsystems are as fleshed out as, say, D&D's combat system?

Exalted. Burning Wheel may fit your description though I haven't played it. FATE uses the same basic system for social and physical combat but it's simpler than D&D.

[DeadManSleeping]

Exalted

I believe the OP said "good".

FATE covers everything nicely in my opinion. It's the only system I've run into that separates "mental influence" social interaction from "social influence" social interaction.

[Raum]

I believe the OP said "good".

Yeah...he also said "...as fleshed out as D&D's combat system".

FATE covers everything nicely in my opinion. It's the only system I've run into that separates "mental influence" social interaction from "social influence" social interaction.

FATE is definitely my preferred system from the three I mentioned. It's currently the only system I'm running.

[Frosty]

FATE system is awesome for social combat.

[Xefas]

Burning Wheel's "Duel of Wits" is probably what you're looking for.

FATE based games (not all of them) typically have a social combat system, but it's identical to their physical combat system (attack, block, maneuver, etc), and about middling in the rule-heaviness department.

Burning Wheel has a robust specific system for social combat that is altogether distinct from its physical combat system(s). If you want powerfully strategic, rules-heavy, verbal throwdowns, the Duel of Wits is for you.

[Dr. Roboto]

Yeah, Duel of Wits is about the closest to what I'm looking for. It only covers debates, though, and I'm hoping to make an all-encompassing social system.

FATE's system looked interesting, but I'm looking for something a bit more rules-heavy.

Raum, what's Exalted's system like?

[Raum]

Raum, what's Exalted's system like?

It's fairly complex (overly complex for me) and based around Charms (spells) which every character type gets. The mechanics themselves are White Wolf's d10 dice pool.

Afraid I'm not a good person to sell Exalted. I prefer simpler systems these days. One thing Exalted does have, is rules for Social combat across a wide range of scales. It covers everything from one vs one to subverting entire societies.

[Knaight]

I've been looking through some game design articles while trying to stat up a new system, and I've found a few references to making social systems as robust as combat systems. Now, I know D&D best, but I've also taken a look at nWoD and GURPS, and it seems that everywhere I look combat has a plethora of options, while social systems boil down to a single roll with a lot of modifiers.

That goes for other things too. Are there any systems where the the social/stealth/whatever subsystems are as fleshed out as, say, D&D's combat system?

The closest I can think of are Chronica Feudalis and Burning Wheel.
Chronica Feudalis: There are four subsystems, each of which gets the same amount of mechanics: Chase, Subterfuge, Parley, and Combat. None of them are as "fleshed out" as D&D's combat system, as Chronica Feudalis is a much lighter system than D&D is. Still, when it comes to resolving chases, stealth, or social actions it is a far more developed system. I would also call the combat system more fun, but D&D does have more content in absolute terms.

Burning Wheel: Burning Wheel has several large subsystems. Combat has Fight! and Range and Cover, social conflict has Duel of Wits. It doesn't have the stealth or chase mechanics the way Chronica Feudalis does.

On a side note, Chronica Feudalis is dirt cheap, a joy to read, intuitively understandable, and a great system. Burning Wheel is somewhat cheap (25 dollars for the hardback), a massive system that is poorly organized, though well designed, and a great system for those who like having a huge amount of mechanics. D&D is downright simple compared to it. I recommend both, but vastly prefer Chronica Feudalis.

EDIT: The free system Synapse has a ridiculously thorough and complex system for social skills, motivations, appeals to motivations, character change, mental stress, so on and so forth. It is basically what it focuses on, and Synapse is another rules heavy system.

[Doc Roc]

Dogs In The Vineyard is equipped with one, and I'm in the middle of rewriting Legend's social encounter system.

[Knaight]

Dogs In The Vineyard is equipped with one, and I'm in the middle of rewriting Legend's social encounter system.

DitV is just weird in that respect. Its not even a discrete social system, its the first part of the social-fists-guns escalation system. That said, as long as we are looking at nontraditional indie games: Houses of the Blooded. Its intrigue more than anything else, combat is a side note.

[Doc Roc]

DitV is just weird in that respect. Its not even a discrete social system, its the first part of the social-fists-guns escalation system. That said, as long as we are looking at nontraditional indie games: Houses of the Blooded. Its intrigue more than anything else, combat is a side note.

I'm not sure that's a downside for DitV

[Knaight]

I'm not sure that's a downside for DitV

I wouldn't call it a downside, it just makes classification difficult. I'd go so far as to call it a really nice feature.

[caden_varn]

The Song of Ice and Fire game (Green Ronin's one, I believe there was a different one earlier) has social mechanics that use the same mechanics as the combat system. I haven't played it enough to have a very detailed knowledge of it, but it seems a fairly decent system to me.