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    Default Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    I promised to have it up, so here it is. Yes, I know there's no table; it'll be here later when I have more time, probably within 24 hours depending on how hard life beats me with the reality stick. The goal was tier 2, and able to hold his own against a caster or provide healing as needed. Please PEACH this; I put a lot of effort into it, including making a new HP mechanic for them, and even if you don't have any suggestions for a capstone (which it still needs) or edits to abilities, I want to hear your thoughts on it balance-wise.

    Class: Redead

    There are those who seek to study the powers of life and death to heal, and those who study them to wage war. Those who study to get close to a god or goddess, and those who study to raise up undead servants. Few, though, are those who search the art for the sheer purpose of bettering themselves. These few are the Redead.

    Redeads are a somewhat strange lot, neither living nor dead. Their studies give them amazing control over the powers of life and death, but at the cost of balance; a Redead must be morally neutral. Should they become good or evil, they retain all class abilities, but may not take any more levels in Redead until such a time as they become neutral again.

    Other people tend not to think highly of Redeads when they're discovered. Clerics and Paladins treat them as undead, Wizards see them as self-serving Clerics, Druids see them as abominations against nature. Warlocks sometimes befriend them, as they also have generally despised powers, as do the occasional outcast Sorcerer. Those who serve on the frontline in battle are less likely to question them, as their power with healing is too valuable to scorn.

    Good saves are Fort and Will.
    BAB is ¾.

    Class Skills:
    The Redead's class skills (and the key ability for each) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

    Skillpoints at 1st Level: (4+Int Mod)x4
    Skillpoints at Level Up: 4+Int Mod
    Hit Die: special; see Undying class ability

    {table=head]Level|
    BAB
    |Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|
    Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Undying, Surge of Life and Death (damage/cure)

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Energy In All Things

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Undying Reduction (DR1/-)

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Ageless

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Undying Immunity

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Surge of Life and Death (stat drain/recovery), Undying Reduction (DR2/-)

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Knowledge of Life and Death

    8th|
    +6/1
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Energy In All Things (see stats imprecisely)

    9th|
    +6/1
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Undying Reduction (DR3/-), Undying Resistance

    10th|
    +7/2
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Improved Undying Immunity

    11th|
    +8/3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Undying Touch

    12th|
    +9/4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Surge of Life and Death (heal/give negative levels), Undying Reduction (DR4/-)

    13th|
    +9/4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Knowledge of Life and Death, Unlosing Death

    14th|
    +10/5
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Energy In All Things (darkvision)

    15th|
    +11/6/1
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Greater Undying Immunity, Undying Reduction (DR5/-)

    16th|
    +12/7/2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Unstoppable Death

    17th|
    +12/7/2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    | Unliving Death

    18th|
    +13/8/3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Surge of Life and Death (kill/revive), Undying Reduction (DR6/-)

    19th|
    +14/9/4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Knowledge of Life and Death

    20th|
    +15/10/5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Energy In All Things (see stats), Perfect Undying Immunity, Perfectly Undying[/table]

    Class Abilities: The following are all class abilities of the Redead.

    Proficiencies: The Redead is not a martial class. They are proficient with all simple weapons, shortswords, shortbows, longbows, light armor and bucklers.

    Undying: The trait that eventually grew to give the class its name. All Redeads are healed and harmed by both positive and negative energy. Their default HP is 0. However, instead of having until -10 to die, they have until +5 or -5 HP to die. At every level of Redead, roll 1d6. That number is added to both positive and negative HP values. Thus, a first level Redead with a Con of 14 would have -13 to +13 HP. Positive energy makes his HP go up, negative makes it go down. Bed rest makes him heal HP towards 0. At no point is a Redead considered disabled due to HP loss, and he will not fall unconscious from too much damage in battle.

    A multiclass Redead does not add his other class's HP to the negative scale. For example, a Redead 6/Fighter 2 would (assuming max HP for all dice) have HP from -41 to +61.

    Spells or effects that grant fast healing will always make his HP to up. Spells or effects that deal damage over time will always reduce his HP. Temporary hit points are always added at the end of his positive HP scale (so a 1st level Redead that had 10 temporary HP would have -11 to +21 HP). Temporary hit points are not “lost”, they simply add to his scale until the time on them runs out.

    Surge of Life and Death: A Redead can channel positive and negative energy much like a Warlock channels eldritch energy. At first level, he may fire a beam from his hand the deals 1d6 positive or negative energy damage (in other words, it heals or deals 1d6 at his choice). Firing this beam is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The amount healed or injured increases by 1d6 every odd numbered level. To hit, the Redead must succeed on a ranged touch attack against his target (or have a willing target in the case of healing). The range on this 60 feet. A successful Fortitude save (DC10+ ½ Redead levels + Redead's Con mod) reduces this to half damage.

    This ability gets stronger as the Redead grows. Starting at 6th level, he may choose to not heal or deal damage, but instead heal or deal stat damage at a rate of 2 points per 1d6 of damage sacrificed. For example, a 7th level redead could choose to deal 4d6 negative energy damage, or do 8 points of stat damage, or do 2d6 and 4 points of stat damage, et cetera. A successful Fortitude save (DC10+ ½ Redead levels + Redead's Con mod) reduces this to half damage.

    This power grows once more at 12th level. He may choose to sacrifice 1d6 to instead heal or deal a negative level with this beam. This may be mixed and matched as desired with the previous levels of power. Thus, a 14th level Redead could do 2d6 negative energy damage, 6 stat damage and deal 2 negative levels, or do 6d6 damage and 1 negative level, or 10 stat damage and 2 negative levels, et cetera. A successful Fortitude save (DC10+ ½ Redead levels + Redead's Con mod) negates any negative levels dealt.

    This power grows one last time at 18th level. A Redead may choose to drop all his damage to bring an ally back from the dead or instantly kill a foe. An ally may only be brought back for one round per character level he has plus an addition round per point of Con modifier he has, is revived with 1HP per hit die he has, and suffers no stat or EXP loss. A foe the Redead is trying to kill must succeed on a successful Fortitude save (DC10+ ½ Redead levels + Redead's Con mod). On a failed save, he dies. On a successful save, he takes half the damage this ability would normally deal.

    Energy In All Things: A Redead can tell by looking at something if it is alive, undead, dead, and what state of health it's in just by looking at it. Starting at 2nd level, he can tell if something is living, dead, or undead by merely looking at it. This does not pierce illusions or other forms of magic necessarily, though it would detect an undead disguised as living via magical means. An illusion of a creature that wasn't there would be detected as dead unless the Redead makes a Will save of (DC10 + illusion's spell level + ½ illusion's caster level), in which case he knows nothing is there.

    At 8th level, this ability grows in power. A Redead may make a Concentration check (DC10+HD of creature observed) as a move action to learn the health of any creature he designates. This reveals HP within 10% of actual percentage (So he would know a creature that was half beaten had 40-60% HP left, but not a hard number), if the creature is ill (but not what illness), detects stat loss (just a yes or no on stat loss, not which stat or how much), and detects level loss (but not how many levels).

    At 14th level, this ability grants him darkvision 60, or increases his current darkvision by 30 feet if he already has it.

    At 20th level, he masters the ability to see the energy in foes. If he concentrates for one full round on a creature (same Concentration DC as the 8th level version), he may determine its current HP (to within +/-5HP), if the creature is ill (and if so with what), detects stats (to within +/-5 points) and stat loss (which stats and by how much), and detects level (how many hit dice within +/-5) and level loss (exact number of levels lost).

    Undying Reduction: The powers of life and death infuse the body of the Redead. He gains DR1/- at 3rd level. This increases by 1 every 3 levels thereafter.

    Ageless: A Redead stops aging at 4th level. He still gains the bonuses that accrue over time, but he never takes aging penalties and never dies of old age.

    Undying Immunity: A Redead has begun taking on some of the traits of the undead. At 5th level, he becomes immune to mundane poisons and diseases.

    Knowledge of Life and Death: At 7th, 13th and 19th levels, the Redead gains the feat Skill Focus in one of the three Knowledge skills he has as class skills. If he already has all three, pick any other class skill and apply the feat to it.

    Undying Resistance: At 9th level, the Redead is becoming suffused with energy to the point he resist spells. He gains SR equal to 10 + his class level.

    Improved Undying Immunity: At 10th level, the Redead becomes immune to magical poisons and diseases, as well as sleep, stunning, and death effects. He also no longer needs to eat, breathe or sleep.

    Undying Touch: At 11th level, a Redead has learned how to pass his redeath unto other characters. As a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity, he may lay his hand on a willing ally and grant them some of his power. An ally under this effect is considered to have negative HP equal to his positive HP, and never becomes disabled or unconscious from hit point loss. For example, if this ability was used on a 10th level Fighter with 80HP, he'd have -80 to +80 HP, and be able to fight until he hit -81HP, at which point he immediately dies. Should this power wear off while a character is at -10HP or less, they die. The duration on this power is one round per class level of the Redead who bestowed the ability, plus one additional round per point of Con mod on both the Redead and the character receiving the power. So a 10th level Redead with Con 14 using this power on a 10th level Fighter with Con 16 would grant this power for 15 rounds. This ability does not stop spells like disintegrate that dissolve the body at 0HP from taking effect.

    Unlosing Death: At 13th level, a Redead will never suffer stat or level loss upon being brought back from the dead.

    Greater Undying Immunity: At 15th level, a Redead no longer notices most injuries or charm effects. He becomes immune to critical hits and nonlethal damage, as well as immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

    Unstoppable Death: At 16th level, any damage dealt by a Redead's Surge of Life and Death may not be healed by anything but another Surge for a number of rounds equal to the Redead's Con modifier.

    Unliving Death: At 17th level, a Redead has the power to make his foes stay dead. Any foe slain by the Redead's Surge of Life and Death may not be brought back to life for a number of days equal to the Redead's Con modifier by any means short of a Miracle or Wish spell followed by a resurrection spell, as the soul is held in stasis by the power. True Resurrection has a 50% chance to revive the creature without freeing the soul first.

    Perfect Undying Immunity: At 20th level, a Redead finally masters the immunities of the undead. He becomes immune to ability drain, energy drain, damage to his physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. He is no longer at risk of death from massive damage, and is immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

    Perfectly Undying: By 20th level, a Redead has mastered his own life. Should he ever be killed by any means, he will reform in 1d10 days like a lich would. The only way to keep a Redead dead is to use a Wish or Miracle spell to keep him that way.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2011-11-11 at 02:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Energy in All Things should require a Concentration check for its 8th and 20th level abilities. (DC ~ 10+HD of creature, like a Knowledge check to identify)

    You need to add (Su), (Sp), and (Ex) to your abilities, please.

    You say that Surge of Life and Death is much like eldritch blast, but you're not clear on whether it has a somatic component and allows for arcane spell failure (as Eldritch Blast does)

    Unliving Death- Miracle and wish are actually less powerful than true resurrection. There's no ability in the game that prevents a creature from being restored to life that allows for wish and miracle but excludes true resurrection. It's the single most powerful resurrection spell. I would allow true resurrection to still work.

    Also, how does this work for a ghost? If it's dead, and it's rejuvenation ability kicks in, is that ability just suppressed until the time limit is up, at which point it immediately revives, or are you saying that since the time limit passed the ghost stays dead forever?

    Okay, so that's all my critique of the individual abilities. Now for the class itself. This is basically suffering from the same fate that the dragonfire adept almost suffered from. It has one attack option, and that's it. You give it a few scaling alternatives, all of which are really good, but you still gave it one really powerful ability and then 19 levels of passive bonuses and upgrades. (So it's like the barbarian)

    My advice? Go all the way warlock. Give it some essences to augment and specialize and shape its Surge, and also a few utility invocations. You want a Tier 2? It has to be able to change the world on its own. You've got more than enough nuking power for a Tier 2, but not quite enough versatility. If you add in some invocations though, that will be what makes this class really fun to play.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Um...you know this thing can deal 20 points of damage to any stat once per turn without a save allowed? Or 10 negative levels, with, again, no save allowed? That's a bit insane no matter how you look at it.

    This doesn't look tier 2 though...it's an overpowered tier 4, which isn't the same thing. You only have 1-2 real forms of attack (stat damage, raw damage, or negative levels) and a form of half-decent healing, but you can fell any for not immune to energy drain and/or ability damage in 1-2 rounds, no questions asked. Tier 2 is about options and general utility: this doesn't have that much of either, but what it has (attack-wise, at least) is definitely horribly overpowered against any opponent not immune to the effects.

    I'm also not sure about that hit point mechanic...it seems incredibly complex compared to the norm, and I'd have to see it in play first.

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Um...you know this thing can deal 20 points of damage to any stat once per turn without a save allowed? Or 10 negative levels, with, again, no save allowed? That's a bit insane no matter how you look at it.

    This doesn't look tier 2 though...it's an overpowered tier 4, which isn't the same thing. You only have 1-2 real forms of attack (stat damage, raw damage, or negative levels) and a form of half-decent healing, but you can fell any for not immune to energy drain and/or ability damage in 1-2 rounds, no questions asked. Tier 2 is about options and general utility: this doesn't have that much of either, but what it has (attack-wise, at least) is definitely horribly overpowered against any opponent not immune to the effects.

    I'm also not sure about that hit point mechanic...it seems incredibly complex compared to the norm, and I'd have to see it in play first.
    Tier two has game-breaking power but no options. So this has the power but not the options. So it is tier 2.
    LGBTA+itP

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    Tier two has game-breaking power but no options. So this has the power but not the options. So it is tier 2.
    Definition of Tier 4: Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength.

    Seems exactly right for this class. It can do one thing quite well (ability damage / negative levels), and a few other things vaguely competently, but not really competently enough to be considered always useful. It might JUST make it into tier 3.

    Tier 2 still implies to many possibilities. They are limited in options, certainly, but only when compared with Tier 1 classes. The UberCharger, impressive though it is, is only an overpowered Tier 4-5 build -- it does one thing extremely well and breaks the game with it, but that's all it's got. Here's the tier 2 definition: Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potencially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and world shattering, but not in quite so many ways.

    Bolded text represents the things this class is unable to live up to.

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Definition of Tier 4: Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength.

    Seems exactly right for this class. It can do one thing quite well (ability damage / negative levels), and a few other things vaguely competently, but not really competently enough to be considered always useful. It might JUST make it into tier 3.

    Tier 2 still implies to many possibilities. They are limited in options, certainly, but only when compared with Tier 1 classes. The UberCharger, impressive though it is, is only an overpowered Tier 4-5 build -- it does one thing extremely well and breaks the game with it, but that's all it's got. Here's the tier 2 definition: Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potencially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and world shattering, but not in quite so many ways.

    Bolded text represents the things this class is unable to live up to.
    You're right, Djinn, as this class stands now, it's not a Tier 2. Do you have any suggestions for how Noctis can improve his class and add options?
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-11-10 at 12:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    You're right, Djinn, as this class stands now, it's not a Tier 2. Do you have any suggestions for how Noctis can improve his class and add options?
    Not until, as I mentioned, that blast gets toned down. If options were added with that blast in the current condition it is, the class would quickly become able to take on pretty much any encounter by itself. Right now it can only solo encounters that aren't immune to negative levels and/or ability damage, but that's already a huge percentage of encounters. In short, until that abilities is changed, the class can't really find a good balance space.

    That said, I wouldn't object to seeing an Invocation-style system put in play, possibly powered by points generated by Negative and/or Positive energy to encourage a mix of ability use. Use primarily positive and negative energy themes with a mix of, say, light and dark based abilities and you could have an interesting casting mechanic powered by the use of a Warlock's Blast type power. A single use might generate, say, 2 points of Negative or Positive power, and some abilities would consume purely Negative power, some purely Positive, and some a mix of the two.

    That would let you "charge up" your big abilities while still feeling like you have options, as well as encourage a mixed playstyle of healing and harming.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-11-10 at 12:29 PM.

    Ingredients

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    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Not until, as I mentioned, that blast gets toned down. If options were added with that blast in the current condition it is, the class would quickly become able to take on pretty much any encounter by itself.
    But...isn't that what a Tier 2 character is supposed to be able to do?

    Right now it can only solo encounters that aren't immune to negative levels and/or ability damage, but that's already a huge percentage of encounters. In short, until that abilities is changed, the class can't really find a good balance space.
    But giving the class equally powerful options will encourage it to deal ability damage or negative energy levels more rarely.

    Personally, I think a simple option is to tack a Fortitude save on the physical ability damage and a Will save on the mental ability damage, and to have there be a cap on the amount of negative levels a creature can receive equal to the d6 that the redead can deal with one shot. (So up to 10 negative levels at level 19, which is a severe penalty, but it doesn't no-save-just-die anymore)


    That said, I wouldn't object to seeing an Invocation-style system put in play, possibly powered by points generated by Negative and/or Positive energy to encourage a mix of ability use. Use primarily positive and negative energy themes with a mix of, say, light and dark based abilities and you could have an interesting casting mechanic powered by the use of a Warlock's Blast type power.
    I agree with this idea. It's got some good potential, both mechanical and flavorful.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    But...isn't that what a Tier 2 character is supposed to be able to do?
    In theory, yes, but a common misconception is that the tier lists directly relate to power. They don't really. Having an infinite use effective way to end 90% of encounters within 1-2 standard actions (or completely cripple your opponent 100% of the time with no save allowed) is just not balanced at the least, even in a tier 1-2 environment. Options, yes. That much raw power isn't a good thing though.

    But giving the class equally powerful options will encourage it to deal ability damage or negative energy levels more rarely.
    Correct. Doesn't make it a good design idea though.

    Personally, I think a simple option is to tack a Fortitude save on the physical ability damage and a Will save on the mental ability damage, and to have there be a cap on the amount of negative levels a creature can receive equal to the d6 that the redead can deal with one shot. (So up to 10 negative levels at level 19, which is a severe penalty, but it doesn't no-save-just-die anymore)
    This would help. That said, the Warlock (a tier 3 class) has a few more graceful ways to deal with that, and I feel that, as written, this is a completely unprecedented increase in power from the base of the Warlock.

    I agree with this idea. It's got some good potential, both mechanical and flavorful.
    In fact, you could resolve the first few issues by incorporating those more powerful abilities into this: perhaps you can spend 1 point of Negative energy to deal 1d4 points of ability damage (Fort save for half). After a few rounds of blasting, you could really rip into your opponents, but you couldn't go Nova for the first round of the fight and all subsequent rounds until they have no Constitution left.

    Ingredients

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    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    So he needs invocations, huh? If I add those, my goal will shift to tier 1. And I see lots of "give it invocations", but no "here's an invocation idea" posts. Also, I suck at invocation or spell creation; expect a fair wait for this feature. I'll have to tweak what already exists or make my own positive or negative energy invocations.

    As for saves, I thought I had added one, but on further inspection I seem to have forgotten. Oops. Will edit one in in a bit (don't have time right this second, posting fast).

    As for toning it down, I think adding a save is plenty. I want him fairly focused; he's a stat draining or healing/negative level inducing or curing specialist, with straight HP healing or damaging thrown on for good measure. Any invocations I add will be simply there to enhance this aspect.

    Expect a table later; should be up by 4 server time (when it goes down).

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    seems like the love child of a warlock and a dred necromancer... would rather see it lose the ray and gain a psionlike casting, with a number of sudo PP equal to the number off PP normaly allowed for a full manifesting class. then give it abilaties that run off it, like an abilaty that heals level per point spent or an abilaty that gives a foe negative levels...
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Even invocations is pushing it on the amount of casting I wanted to give him, really. My initial thought was to make him a caster. Then I remembered how much I suck at writing casters and dropped the spells. Now I'm trying to give him an overhaul to fit invocations in without nerfing his Surge. My current thought is to make all his invocations be Surge Bursts, IE modifications to his beam attack like change its shape, boost its range, make it deal an additional effect, et cetera. Will either be at will or done with a PP system, though I'd prefer at will. This makes him far more powerful, so I'll probably be dropping his BAB to 1/2 and removing all proficiencies but simple weapons, and maybe light armor if I'm feeling generous. Also contemplating dropping his hid die to a D4. Thoughts on these ideas?

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    The undying trait isn't that interesting in terms of effective change, and adds a lot of compelxity in comparison.

    Most attack forms will reduce hp, except positive/negative hp, which as written, the character can choose how they affect him each time. However, it is highly improbable that there will be encounters in which the enemy will mostly or exclusively deal one of these two damage types -- the only situation in which it would provide a meaningful benefit.

    The overall effect could be better described as follows:

    Hit Die: d6.

    Undying: Effects that would reduce your hit points as a result of positive or negative energy always heal you. At no point is the character considered disabled due to HP loss, and he will not fall unconscious from too much damage in battle.

    Personally though, I would write it as follows:

    Undying (Ashtagon variant): Each morning, choose whether positive or negative energy heals you (restores hit points). Effects that use the other energy type will harm you (reduce your hit points). You may swap the effects of positive and negative energy at any time, but each time you do so, you must spent one full minute in uninterrupted meditation. At no point is the character considered disabled due to HP loss, and he will not fall unconscious from too much damage in battle.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Even invocations is pushing it on the amount of casting I wanted to give him, really. My initial thought was to make him a caster. Then I remembered how much I suck at writing casters and dropped the spells. Now I'm trying to give him an overhaul to fit invocations in without nerfing his Surge. My current thought is to make all his invocations be Surge Bursts, IE modifications to his beam attack like change its shape, boost its range, make it deal an additional effect, et cetera. Will either be at will or done with a PP system, though I'd prefer at will. This makes him far more powerful, so I'll probably be dropping his BAB to 1/2 and removing all proficiencies but simple weapons, and maybe light armor if I'm feeling generous. Also contemplating dropping his hid die to a D4. Thoughts on these ideas?
    Since your Surge ability is a ranged touch attack, I'd say that 1/2 BAB would be a bad thing.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-11-11 at 01:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    TABLE IS UP

    Added a capstone and an additional ability at 13th level, as well as tweaking a lot of the available abilities. I added saves to his Surge, made Energy In All Things require a Concentration check, and added on to the description of Unliving Death.

    Things to do now: change hid die to D4 (still want thoughts on this first), add SL/SU/EX to abilities (I suck at this, so thoughts on that wouldn't hurt either), and write Surge Bursts.

    PEACH it up.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Looks interesting, but do they move slowly before leaping up onto someone's head and chewing voraciously?
    There was something here and in the avatar box, and there will eventually be again. I just need to figure out what I want...

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Nope. Sorry. These guys aren't technically undead, they're living people with undead resistances and powers. I suppose it would be possible to play a CN Redead that did, but why bother? Just use real zombies instead.

    Besides, slow brainless zombies are boring and pathetic, and not true to the original literary concept from the early 1900s anyways.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    <.<

    You must not have played much Ocarina of Time as a child.
    There was something here and in the avatar box, and there will eventually be again. I just need to figure out what I want...

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    OoT was pretty "meh" as far as Zelda games go; I'd take almost any game in the series over it.

    And really? No one has anything more to say about the class itself?

    Ashtagon, I like your idea of choosing which energy type heals him, however I still like the current HP system. Perhaps add yours in as an upgrade to Undying at a later level? Greater Undying. I like it, I'll see what I can do.

    Current ideas for Surge Bursts:
    Cone of Life and Death: same as the Surge, but a 60 foot cone.
    Line of Life and Death: same as Surge, but 120 foot line.
    Greater Surge of Life and Death: same as Surge, but 200 foot range (I think this matches the range enhancement on the Warlock's Eldritch Beam).
    Zone of Life and Death: same as Surge, but a 30 foot radius burst centered on the Redead.
    Wall of Life and Death: basically a wall of flame that works like the Surge.
    Strike of Life and Death: channels your Surge through a melee strike.
    Courage of Life: grants a +2 bonus on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks when you heal someone with this Surge.
    Fear of Death: A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

    Any suggestions for others?

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Other ideas for Surge enhancements-

    Cloud of Death- Only works for the ability damage version of Surge. Creates a moving cloud of Surge, like the cloudkill spell. Cannot be used with Constitution damage.

    Saving Grace- Healing Surge, functions as restoration

    Necromancy effects are often fear and sickening, so in addition to the shaken condition, maybe make a sickening, nausea, panic and frighten version of them? Oh, and fatigue and exhaustion as well.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Good ideas, NeoSeraphi. I'd also like counterparts that reflect life, but not sure what to do about that. I want a roughly equal balance between the number of positive and the number of negative effects, if possible. Any suggestions for positive effects other than restoration? Maybe one that grants temporary HP?

    Also, I kind of like Djinn in Tonic's idea of positive and negative energy "points" for this, but I'm not quite sure how to implement it. Suggestions?

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Let's see.

    A burst that heals and grants a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, but carries the same limitations as a barbarian's rage ability.

    A burst that grants the character the ability to roll twice whenever he makes an attack roll or skill check and takes the higher result.

    DR X/Evil, where X is your number of d6 healed

    You should take a look at the Imbued Healing feat from Complete Champion. It has all sorts of tack on benefits to healing spells.

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    Default Re: Redead, the Masters of Life and Death (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Ooo, I hadn't thought of that feat. Or book; I bet there's lots of good stuff in there I could use. Thanks, NeoSeraphi.

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