All Warforged society

[Heliomance]

What would a society comprised entirely of warforged (/robots/golems/any similar thing) be like? A society that has no needs. Immune to exposure, within reason. No need for food. No need for sleep. Nothing that they have to have. What sort of society would that produce? It's something I've been thinking about as part of a campaign setting that's percolating in my head at the moment, and I thought I'd get the Playground's ideas on the matter.

[Morithias]

They would probably mostly produce what is referred to as "Luxery" items. Comfy chairs, pottery, etc. Stuff you don't NEED to survive but is nice to have.
There would be almost no "low class" people relatively speaking, since they have no need for essentials, just luxery items.

[bloodtide]

What would a society comprised entirely of warforged (/robots/golems/any similar thing) be like? A society that has no needs. Immune to exposure, within reason. No need for food. No need for sleep. Nothing that they have to have. What sort of society would that produce? It's something I've been thinking about as part of a campaign setting that's percolating in my head at the moment, and I thought I'd get the Playground's ideas on the matter.

First off, the society would have needs. They would still need materials to repair themselves and make more folks. Spellcasters still need 'rest', if not sleep per say. And they still need stuff in general, such as materials to build a house(yes, they don't need a house per say, but they still need a secure place to live/stay/put things).

Plus if they are intelligent and 'alive', they will need everything mentally that living creatures need. Such as a the meaning of life and something to do, plus fun and games and distractions.

At the most basic, if they are 'more machine-like', they will need input...that is something for them to react too(as they have no motivation themselves).

[Apophis]

Like bloodtide said, raw materials will still be needed. Repairs, new warforged, buildings, and more weapons will still need to be made. However, I can see a huge merchant empire being made. They have no needs, but could still have farms that they could make nearly a 100% profit from by selling to other nations. Manufacturing would speed up, since they could just assign some warforged(or mindless constructs) to work on an assembly line (or just a single forge, and make 1 item over and over) and never stop.

Alternatively, they could be a military focused empire, since they could keep moving and fighting while other armies need to stop to rest and wait on supplies.

[Dr.Epic]

It could exist underwater. That'd be the best kind of defense.

[tensai_oni]

It would be a nation of scientists and scholars, where everyone can become a soldier in times of war. Because their body is already prepared for combat.

In other words, Planet Cybertron.

[Dr.Epic]

It would be a nation of scientists and scholars, where everyone can become a soldier in times of war. Because their body is already prepared for combat.

Yeah, except when the rust monster invade.

[beyond reality]

A lot depends on the "species" of machine-people. The warforged (who are basically human-like minds in metal bodies, right down to self-defined genders) are pretty different from the program-minds of the Matrix (who're individual parts linked into a greater whole) who are pretty different from star-trek style androids (who are sentient individuals but lack emotions).

Assuming something like the warforged there is going to be a lower-class of laborers. The folks who mine, process, and refine raw materials. To a degree these materials will be used for incidental maintenance and repairs. In a way the warforged still need "food" because their bodies will (through continual use, friction and wear) logically eventually break down without some fairly consistent maintenance (too minor to be given any concern in an RPG). Their "metabolism" is much, much slower than a human (probably like a car they need at least some work every few months to remain in peak condition).

Of course it would probably take significantly more time effort to harvest and process the essential materials (the society's "food") than it would for human food. But lets still assume that warforged are going to consume less essentials overall.

That still leaves a significant number of people needed to serve as laborers (harvesting both food and raw materials for luxury/artistic goods).

Now the exact society you see will depend a lot on the philosophies of the warforged involved. With the right mindset you could certainly end up with a communist eutopia where everyone is easily provided with the essentials they need to survive and takes turns laboring (whether this essential labor for raw materials or artistic\intellectual labor). The work load for everyone is minimal (probably averaging an hour a week or less assuming a large enough population) and all needs are met by the state so free time is plentiful and filled with activities to enrich the mind and spirit.

But it could just as easily turn dark. The warforged society needs only a small number of laborers to support a high standard of living. Warforged also do not tire and can work under conditions that would be unbearable for humans. This might lead to a situation where there is a lower "working class" of warforged who are forced to work almost continuously to provide luxuries for the leasure-based majority.

And since the work-force is the vast minority they would have almost no ability to enforce their desires on the much larger upper-classes. It would be a society akin to early industrialization without any chance of a worker revolt.

[Psyren]

http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/01

[Lord Raziere]

I thought similar things upon an all Shardmind society. they would play a bunch of games that could last for all eternity, or at least for centuries.

as for worker class and such….that can easily be fixed. rotatable working class. everyone works sometimes. keeping rotating until everyone has worked and everyone has made everything they want or need.

as for self-repair, I imagine all Warforged could be eventually taught that- they have all the time in the world after all.

they also have all the time in the world to make art and music and eventually become the best artists, writers, poets, musicians, whatever you wants ever.

and of course there are probably going to some ambassador warforged who set out to learn all the languages in the world (becoming gold-plated optional ).

I'm also thinking Warforged wizards work on some magic stuff….

yea, I think I can see a society like that working just fine, as long as everyone is patient.

[RndmNumGen]

Take Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs:

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A Warforged society would have their bottom segment pretty much fulfilled, at all times. As intelligent beings though, they would still be perusing the same things in the upper hierarchy as humans would. Yes, warforged don't really have sex, but they can certainly desire the same sense of love/belonging that humans do.

Because they don't have to worry about the bottom segment, a Warforged society may be more productive than a human one. This doesn't mean they would completely overtake the biological races though, because as they climb higher up the hierarchy more and more Warforged will be focusing on self-actualization, the hardest one to achieve. I suspect that religion, art, and the accumulation of knowledge will become increasingly important to such as society.

[boomwolf]

Well, it can go in many directions...

If you want something truly unique you can do very well with these starting conditions...

An idea for example: (spoiler for textblock)

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When you don't need to eat, drink or sleep-why would you need a house?
"Warforgedvill" is a city without actual houses, it contains only "stations" as buildings.
"Management Station" is where all the big decisions are made. (such as what to build, when, where, how to recat to other nations, how many more warforged to make, etc...)
"Guard Stations" are the watchtowers around the city.
"Craft Stations" are where they make stuff. (construction materials, tools, etc...)
"Civil Stations" are parks, amusement centers and such, where warforged tend to spend free time, rest, meditate, and meet others.
"Recovery Station" the place you go to patch yourself up.
"Storage Stations" kina like school lockers.
"Trade Stations" were you can trade your stuff with people, a big "give-take" marketplace...
and more such stations.

The inner economy of "Warforgedvill" is simple, you can sign yourself up for work in any station you qualify for (by needs of said station, "management" is randomly selected from those who meet certain criteria) and for your work receive "credits", who in turn are used to "buy" excess raw materials, rent stations for personal use, or trade with others for stuff. these "credits" are mostly useless outside of "warforgedvill", as nobody use their economic system.

Outside economy is done mostly by "management", trading off excess materials, tools and such for things the city needs, and sometimes people trade their personal belonging with outsiders to get stuff they want.

With such a society they going of life are quite different. with no house you need no furniture or such and the natural conclusion is that personal belonging will probably be all things you carry on yourself. clothing, a weapon, musical instruments, jewelery, perhaps a mechanical pet-nothing big and clunky.
If you cant carry it-you don't want it.

One will likely sign up for work for some time, gather "credits", then use them to buy more luxury items, or rent what he needs to make them, perhaps he will pay someone to teach him something, or just keep them to flaunt how much he has. from time to time you will "pay" some credits to the city back for services such as repairing or such done by people who work at the moment at the station you need.

The better looking stuff you got and more credits you hoard, the higher your social status. naturally unique skill in philosophy, arts or crafts may increase your value in the eyes of the surrounding.

the lack of actual need to physically rest also created an anomaly in the form that there is no such thing as "timeframe" in the city, everything is constantly active and it is all the same in day or night.

This strange mix of capitalistic and communistic ideals could never work with other races-because the society may encourage greediness and working to get the most stuff you can, you can afford not to work, as the city provides with all the essentials (safety, a place to rest if you desire, social interactions) so poverty cannot exist, at the very worse you don't do any work and therefor have no luxury items or the "credits" to watch entertainers and such, but you will never starve, never get old, never have any needs-only desires.

[Anderlith]

A factory warehouse

[Ravens_cry]

I see them being at war a lot. No, not because of some innate need for a robot uprising, but because their unresting nature mean they can produce a lot more per person using the same technologies, allowing them to potentially be a very wealthy nation. This would result in some little jealousy and greed from other nations.
Warforged are also fairly clumsy when dealing with meat people, not really understanding us, meaning that negotiations are not likely to go well. Their untiring nature and a lack of need to bring a harvest in mean that conscripts and militia can stay on the field much longer both tactically and strategically. They can also move faster for those reasons as well as lacking a need for much the baggage train that would slow down meat army, giving them extreme mobility and speed.
So I see them winning a lot of these wars, but they would still happen fairly often in my opinion.

[Heliomance]

One idea I had: exercise is likely pointless for a warforged. They have a certain strength, and working out won't improve that. All it'll do is make them wear out marginally faster. I suspect that the normal drive for self improvement would instead get channeled into a drive for improvement of the next generation. They'd always be trying to make new, better warforged. I suspect that you might rapidly start to see insect-like specialisation as they come up with new designs perfectly suited for any task.

[Quietus]

One idea I had: exercise is likely pointless for a warforged. They have a certain strength, and working out won't improve that. All it'll do is make them wear out marginally faster. I suspect that the normal drive for self improvement would instead get channeled into a drive for improvement of the next generation. They'd always be trying to make new, better warforged. I suspect that you might rapidly start to see insect-like specialisation as they come up with new designs perfectly suited for any task.

Are you sure? They can still raise stats every four levels, can they not? So they could still see some self-improvement, although I do like this idea anyway.

[Kol Korran]

One idea I had: exercise is likely pointless for a warforged. They have a certain strength, and working out won't improve that. All it'll do is make them wear out marginally faster. I suspect that the normal drive for self improvement would instead get channeled into a drive for improvement of the next generation. They'd always be trying to make new, better warforged. I suspect that you might rapidly start to see insect-like specialisation as they come up with new designs perfectly suited for any task.

exercise is not only for strength, but to improve the coordination of many tasks, and make them more "learned" (more intuitive, such as learning any skill.. like riding a bicycle) so exercise would be important.

also, insectile specialization requires a sort of "numbing of mind" or being controlled by chemical communication. it does not fit humanoid-sentience-like beings. if at all, i'd imagine they would want to create warforged that can learn faster, multitask better, and some core tool (brain) to fit nearly any task presented to it.

on the larger subject- as has been mentioned, the Maslow's pyramid is useful, but it's important to note that such a society is not exempt from the normal "ailings" of humanity- cruelty, slavery, discrimination, war and more. a warforged community could suffer/ benefit from all of these. society remains society.

[GungHo]

They might war, but their reasons for war might be a little different. There'd be less manifest destiny or tribal conflict and a lot more war for very direct and obvious reasons: you have natural resources we need or you are perceived as a direct threat.

They'd also likely ally (or conquer) people who could provide them with "technological" advantages. Artificers would be in high demand, as would any other casters that specialize in handling constructs. It is quite likely though that once you get in, you can't get out.

[shadow_archmagi]

also, insectile specialization requires a sort of "numbing of mind." it does not fit humanoid-sentience-like beings.

Er, what? Humans can specialize. I don't see why you couldn't build a robot with huge arms, and say "You have huge arms! Enjoy being more successful as a miner!" You wouldn't have to make him mentally deficient any more than you would a normal miner.

[RndmNumGen]

When you don't need to eat, drink or sleep-why would you need a house?
"Warforgedvill" is a city without actual houses, it contains only "stations" as buildings.

I suppose that could be true if you view houses as completely utilitarian. If, however, you view a house as a place for rest and relaxation, where one can keep their valued possessions in safety and maintain a secure shelter, then there is no reason that Warforged wouldn't want a house. Just because they don't tire in body doesn't mean they don't tire in mind, does it?

[shadow_archmagi]

I suppose that could be true if you view houses as completely utilitarian. If, however, you view a house as a place for rest and relaxation, where one can keep their valued possessions in safety and maintain a secure shelter, then there is no reason that Warforged wouldn't want a house. Just because they don't tire in body doesn't mean they don't tire in mind, does it?

True, but their idea of what a house needed would likely be quite different. Many warforged, when they wanted to relax, might just go to an art gallery or something; it's safe and quiet, so it fulfills all their needs. Who needs chairs?

[boomwolf]

I suppose that could be true if you view houses as completely utilitarian. If, however, you view a house as a place for rest and relaxation, where one can keep their valued possessions in safety and maintain a secure shelter, then there is no reason that Warforged wouldn't want a house. Just because they don't tire in body doesn't mean they don't tire in mind, does it?

That was an example possible society that could very well work, and I wanted to make it special, so I allowed myself to to odd stuff, and by that example society it makes perfect sense to have no want for a house...

[RndmNumGen]

That was an example possible society that could very well work, and I wanted to make it special, so I allowed myself to to odd stuff, and by that example society it makes perfect sense to have no want for a house...

Ah, that makes sense.

[Ravens_cry]

Need and want are two very different things. In a way, the meatbags are the warforged's role models, their guides in what it means to be a person. So they might have houses, but not needing them per se, they would be very . . .decorative. Hallways that lead to nowhere, outside walls of fabric while inside walls of stone, stairs that only lead back to where you started, et cetera.
Still, they would fulfil some practical purpose. Everyone needs alone time, time to think and gather their thoughts. This room would be very small, but special, decorated with mementos and memories. An individual workshop is probably going to be as large as that of any meatling, as would a private library and other special purpose rooms.
I can imagine a particularly wealthy warforged with a perticularly devoted love of books would have a cloudkill cast inside a sealed room as a library, to keep away pests and bookworms.

[Heliomance]

It depends on whether they've had any contact with meatbags for a while. If they've not seen any humans for hundreds of years, how would their culture diverge?

[Ravens_cry]

It depends on whether they've had any contact with meatbags for a while. If they've not seen any humans for hundreds of years, how would their culture diverge?

Cultural diveragance is a also generational thing and warforged don't die, at least of old age. Also, even a warforged culture is likely to have needs not met by the the area alone, meaning trade and commerce. And even if they somehow don't, wanderlust is likely to drive some to explore Out There, where they will encounter meatbags.
When and if they come back, they will bring new ideas and inventions.

[boomwolf]

You are making some assumptions that we CAN scrap (if we choose to), and in fact maybe we should scrap in order to allow a truly original creation.

What if their society emerged hundreds of years BEFORE they even met a meatbag? maybe some mechanical god made them as "his people" and they developed on their own ages before meeting anyone else?

What if they consider themselves superior and that meatbags should strive to be like them, and not the other way around? they could think themselves to be an improvement upon meatbags.

What if a warforged has no mental need for privacy and "alone time"? maybe they can't even grasp the concept of difference between company and solitude? perhaps to a warforged it is all the same.

Would a warforged society have books? does his memory even work the same? maybe they can perfectly store information much like a computer, eliminating the need of ever inventing the concept of books? (and any other means of "preserving mementos" such as pictures, trophies, diaries, etc for that matter?)

Remember-this is not necessarily ebberon, the origin and thought process of warforged could indeed be very different. in fact I believe it would be for the best if it would be so.
Also note that the question is actually not about warforge specifically, we just talk about them because they are an existing constructs with personalities, but we can be talking about new non-yet-existing kind of living constructs.

[Morithias]

Er, what? Humans can specialize. I don't see why you couldn't build a robot with huge arms, and say "You have huge arms! Enjoy being more successful as a miner!" You wouldn't have to make him mentally deficient any more than you would a normal miner.

I would like to point out that Profession (miner) is a wisdom based skill. Bigger arms do jack to help. You want a better miner make him wiser.

Edit: Unless he's so big he's now large size. THEN it would make a difference.

[boomwolf]

Thats because the social skill system is a failanche (I combined "fail" and "avalanche" to make a new word!)

[Lord Vukodlak]

Yeah, except when the rust monster invade.

The damage a rust monster does to warforge is relatively minor only 2d6. According to page 23 of the Eberron Campaign Setting.