Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Sant-Kavi of the Maha Bhagwan
    माहाभगवान का संत-कवि


    As water to sea creatures
    Moon nectar to chakora birds
    Companionable dark to the stars Ė
    My love is to my lord.

    As if a day when no sun came up
    And no color came to the earth Ė
    Thatís how it is in my heart when he goes away.

    Vidyāpati says, cherish such love
    And keep it young, fortunate one.

    -- Vidyāpati, a sant-kavi


    People experience an almost infinite variety of responses to divinity. There are a rare few, however, who embrace divinity with a totality that eclipses everything else in their lives. Their ecstatic devotion to their deity pours out of their bodies, hearts, and minds in the form of song, music, poetry, and dance. They just canít keep it in! These people often become sant-kavis, itinerant poets and musicians whose devotion to their god pervades their music and their lives.

    Sant-kavis are able to channel this devotion into inspiring songs, poems, and dances that enrapture those around them. They are able to give their friends and followers a glimpse of their special relationship with their deity; a relationship that often seems more like two lovers than like a master and servant or parent and child. Their intense faith gives them powers that few others possess.

    A sant-kaviís songs are what make her faith so magical and her abilities so potent. Through music, a san-kavi can invite outsiders to share in a relationship of devotion that is deeper and more passionate than mundane words can express. Her songs are an extension of this relationship; a musical manifestation of her overpowering faith. Without the music, there is no way to communicate the devotion she experiences. And without the devotion, there would be no music.

    Becoming a Sant-Kavi
    Most sant-kavis begin their adventuring careers as bards before multiclassing to cleric, favored soul or similar divine spellcasting classes. The sant-kavi prestige class emphasizes the bardic aspects of the character much more heavily, rewarding those who progress farther as bards than as divine casters.

    Some sant-kavis choose to fulfill their arcane spellcasting requirement with levels in wizard or sorcerer, using one level dips to fulfill their bardic music and divine spellcasting requirements. This route is particularly attractive for sant-kavis with a more studious bent (in which case, they may find the cloistered cleric variant attractive as well) or a direct genetic connection to a source of arcane power.

    Hit Dice: d6
    Requirements:
    Skills: Perform (any) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st level divine spells
    Special: Bardic music
    Alignment: Any good, must be the same as her chosen deity
    Class Skills:
    The sant-kaviís class skills are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha)
    Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spellcasting
    1|+0|+0|+2|+2|Bardic music, inspire bhakti|+1 level of bardic spellcasting class
    2|+1|+0|+3|+3|Music domain|+1 level of bardic spellcasting class/[br]+1 level of divine spellcasting class
    3|+2|+1|+3|+3|Beloved of the lord (1/week, energy resistance)|+1 level of bardic spellcasting class/[br]+1 level of divine spellcasting class
    4|+3|+1|+4|+4|Inspire virataa|+1 level of bardic spellcasting class/[br]+1 level of divine spellcasting class
    5|+3|+1|+4|+4||+1 level of bardic spellcasting class/[br]+1 level of divine spellcasting class
    6|+4|+2|+5|+5|Beloved of the lord (2/week, damage reduction)|+1 level of bardic spellcasting class/[br]+1 level of divine spellcasting class
    7|+5|+2|+5|+5||+1 level of bardic spellcasting class[br]+1 level of divine spellcasting class
    8|+6|+2|+6|+6|Inspire shurataa|+1 level of bardic spellcasting class/[br]+1 level of divine spellcasting class
    9|+6|+3|+6|+6|Beloved of the lord (3/week, ability damage)|+1 level of bardic spellcasting class/[br]+1 level of divine spellcasting class
    10|+7|+3|+7|+7|Inspire satya bhakti|+1 level of bardic spellcasting class/[br]+1 level of divine spellcasting class[/table]

    Class Features

    Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: A sant-kavi gains no additional proficiencies with armor or weapons.

    Bardic Music: Sant-kavi levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of determining the sant-kaviís daily uses of her bardic music abilities and the value of the bonus granted by her inspire courage ability (if any).

    Spellcasting: When a new sant-kavi level is gained, the character gains new spells per day and spells known as if she had also gained a level in the bard class. Additionally, beginning at second level and continuing at every subsequent level, she gains new spells per day as if she had gained a level in any one divine spellcasting class she belonged to previously. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before she became a sant-kavi, she must decide to which class she adds each level of sant-kavi the purpose of determining spells per day.

    Inspire Bhakti (भक्ति): A sant-kaviís devotion to her deity is truly inspiring. Beginning at 1st level, a sant-kavi can spend a use of her bardic music ability to spread some of this devotion to those around her.

    Initiating this ability is a standard action, during with the sant-kavi makes a perform check. All creatures who can hear the sant-kavi and whose Intelligence scores are greater than 3 make a Will save equal to the sant-kaviís perform check. Creatures whose alignment is 2 or more steps away from the sant-kaviís on a single alignment axis (evil-good or chaotic-lawful) or at least 1 step away from the sant-kaviís on both alignment axes gain a +4 circumstance bonus on this save. Creatures who are active enemies or rivals of the sant-kavi gain a +8 circumstance bonus on this save. Those who fail their save move one step closer to ďhelpfulĒ in their attitude regarding the sant-kavi (see the rules for the Diplomacy skill), consider the sant-kaviís deity as their own, and cannot attack or otherwise attempt to hinder or harm the sant-kavi for the duration of the effect. However, if the sant-kavi deals damage (normal or ability) to a creature under the effect of her inspire bhakti ability, the effect immediately ends for that creature.

    Creatures who voluntarily fail their saves against this ability gain its benefits but are not forced to take the sant-kaviís deity as their own, though they may choose to do so. Their attitude with regard to the sant-kavi is also not automatically improved. They are considered under the effect of this ability, despite the lack of changes their attitude or their religious views. However, if they attack the sant-kavi or attempt to affect the sant-kavi with a damaging or otherwise harmful spell or ability, they must immediately make a save against the sant-kaviís inspire bhakti ability using the original save DC.

    This effect lasts as long as the sant-kavi continues to perform and for a number of minutes thereafter equal to her class level plus her bard level.

    Quote Originally Posted by DM Note
    This is a powerful and somewhat open-ended ability. DMs should be careful not to allow the scope of this ability to go too far. It should not be as powerful as spells like Charm Person or Suggestion. The sant-kavi should not be able to direct the actions creatures under the effect of this ability, but they should share similar goals for the duration of the ability and the sant-kavi should be able to use skills like Diplomacy to influence them with somewhat greater ease. This ability does not change a creatureís alignment nor can it cause a creature to do something it would otherwise have a strong resistance to doing.
    Music Domain: At 2nd level, the sant-kavi gains access to the Music domain, described below. She gains the granted power associated with the domain, adds the spells in that domain to her class spell list, and can choose the spells as her daily domain spells (if any). If she casts divine spells spontaneously (for example, as a favored soul), she gains the domain spells as spells known.

    Beloved of the Lord: The sant-kaviís intense devotion has earned her the favor and protection of her deity. Once per week, when she would be brought to 0 or fewer hit points by energy damage of any type, she may, as an immediate action, gain energy resistance equal to twice her class level + her Charisma modifier against that type of energy. This energy resistance applies only to the effect that brought her to 0 or fewer hit points. The damage of the effect is re-calculated taking into account the sant-kaviís energy resistance.

    For example, Mira Bai, a 4th-level sant-kavi with a Charisma score of 21, is included in the radius of a CL 6 fireball spell. She takes 23 points of damage, which would bring her to -5 hit points. Mira Bai activates her beloved of the lord class ability as an immediate action and gains fire resistance 13 (twice her class level [8] plus her Charisma modifier [5]). This resistance reduces the fire damage she took to 10, leaving her with 8 hit points.

    Beginning at 6th level, the sant-kavi can also use this ability when brought to 0 or fewer hit points by standard hit point damage. In this case, she gains damage reduction equal to twice her class level + her Charisma modifier and the damage she took is re-calculated.

    Beginning at 9th level, she can use this ability to negate ability damage that would reduce one of her ability scores to 0. She negates ability damage equal to her class level + her Charisma modifier when she uses this ability. She can only use this ability to negate ability damage that directly reduces one of her ability scores to 0. For example, if the sant-kavi is affected by a poison and the secondary damage reduces her Strength score to 0, she can only use this ability to negate the poisonís secondary damage.

    Finally, she gains one additional weekly use of this ability at 6th and 9th levels.

    Inspire Virataa (वीरता): Beginning at 4th level, any creature the sant-kavi considers an ally who is under the effects of her inspire bhakti ability gains greater benefits from her other bardic music abilities. The bonus to attack and damage rolls they gain from the sant-kaviís inspire courage ability increases by an amount equal to half the sant-kaviís Charisma modifier.

    Inspire Shurataa (शूरता): Beginning at 8th level, three times per day, the sant-kavi may spend a use of her bardic music ability to grant a measure of her divine blessing to her allies. When she uses this ability, all creatures the sant-kavi considers allies and who are under the effects of her inspire bhakti ability gain the use of the domain power for one of her domains. The sant-kavi does not count as an ally for the purpose of this ability and cannot grant herself additional facility with domain powers.

    The sant-kavi can initiate this ability as a standard action. Each ally gains the use of the domain power until the end of the sant-kaviís inspire bhakti ability or, in the case of domain powers with limited uses per day, until she exhausts her daily uses. An allyís ability to use the domain power follows all the normal rules for its use. Each ally affected is considered to have an effective cleric level equal to half his character level for the purposes of the domain powers.

    Inspire Satya Bhakti (सत्य भक्ति): At 10th level, a sant-kaviís devotion reaches its peak. The sant-kavi may choose make the duration of her inspire bhakti ability permanent for any creature under its effect. Doing so requires no extra actions or effort on the part of the sant-kavi. During any given inspire bhakti use, the sant-kavi may choose to make the duration permanent for all creatures affected by the ability, may also choose to exclude any number of creatures from this permanency effect, or may choose not to make the duration permanent, as she desires. However, the sant-kavi may only affect a number of creatures per day equal to her Charisma modifier with this ability. Any spell or effect that removes the effect of the Bestow Curse spell ends this effect as well.

    This permanency does not affect the durations of any other abilities whose duration is specifically keyed off the sant-kaviís inspire bhakti ability, such as inspire shurataa. These abilities remain limited to the original inspire bhakti duration.

    Music Domain

    Granted Power: You add Perform to your list of class skills. You also gain the ability to use Ghost Sound as a spell-like ability 3 times/day.

    Music Domain Spells
    1. Hypnotism
    2. Sound Burst
    3. Sculpt Sound
    4. Charm Monster
    5. Song of Discord
    6. Sympathetic Vibration
    7. Shout, Greater
    8. Irresistible Dance
    9. Wail of the Banshee
    Last edited by Mephibosheth; 2013-04-15 at 08:48 AM.
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Just a brief note:

    I've seen a few bard/cleric prestige classes but I've never really been impressed by their mechanics or their flavor. This class builds on the legends that surround the saint-poets who wrote the bhajans and poems of the bhakti movement famous in South Asia, particularly sant-kavis like Meerabai and Kabir from medieval north India.

    I'm very interested to hear what you think about this class' balance. Most dual spell progression PrC's have few if any class features while this one has some fairly powerful ones. I'm open to any suggestions you think will improve this class.

    Another quick note: The image I used can be found here. The poem snippet can be found in In Praise of Krishna: Songs from the Bengali, translated by Edward C. Dimock, Jr. and Denise Levertov, p. 17.

    A final note: While this is inspired by a real-world historical and religious movement, the class itself does not advance any particular real-world religious view. I know this is close to the board's prohibition of religious discussion, so let's focus on the game aspects, not the inspiring material.

    I hope you like the class!

    Mephibosheth
    Last edited by Mephibosheth; 2011-11-11 at 10:40 PM.
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Where I live.

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Inspire Virataa is WAY too strong when combined with Dragonfire Inspiration; that would be adding a number of d6s in damage equal to your Charisma modifier to ALL allies damage rolls.

    Also, you might want to Beloved of the Lord a bit more frequent; as it is, their next attack will kill these guys. May I suggest having it be per day?

    Inspire Shurataa can get crazy with stuff like the Destiny Domain, where all your allies can grant you rerolls, or Endurance (who wants a +1/2 their Cleric level (which usually is replaced by ECL by abilities like this) as an Enhancement bonus to Constitution for one minute), or Strength (+ECL to Strength for a round? I'm game.), or any of the domains that grant healing.

    I mean, I like it, but Heretic of the Faith makes this a little... excessive, what with granting everyone Death Touch or the like.

    I mean, I like it, but it pays to know what a given feature is capable of.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Let's play a game, shall we? Current Game: END ROLL. Updates Mondays and Thursdays, 6PM EST.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    You know, a wizard could benefit from this class greatly by entering this class as a divine bard. In fact, that would be a devastating combination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephibosheth View Post
    Creatures who voluntarily fail their saves against this ability gain its benefits but are not forced to take the sant-kaviís deity as their own, though they may choose to do so. Their attitude with regard to the sant-kavi is also not automatically improved. They are considered under the effect of this ability, despite the lack of changes their attitude or their religious views.
    What does this mean? "Gain its benefits, but are not affected"? What benefit do they gain?

    Beloved of the Lord is a very nice ability for an emergency ability. The once per week limitation hurts, but at the same time it only works if your hit points or ability score would drop to 0, and as a cleric or a favored soul (with access to the best healing spells in the game) this shouldn't be happening too often. Even if it only brings you to 1 HP, that's more than enough for you to drop a heal and move on. I like it.

    Inspire Virataa- Ah, now I understand. The inspire bhakti ability does not grant benefits itself, but the rest of your class features require you to do it. Makes sense.

    Inspire Shurataa- You should add something that says "Each ally affected is considered to have an effective cleric level equal to his character level for the purposes of the domain powers." It's relevant due to things like the Strength Domain power or the Death Domain power.

    Inspire Satya Bhakti- Now this is good. Drop a use, all allies voluntarily fail, move on. It's an interesting ability, but it's kind of...weak, for a capstone. Leaves me wanting more. Some kind of third, all-powerful ability for people under the effect of inspire bhakti.

    As for whether it's balanced with the theurgeness, well, a bard loses skill points, caster level, and most of its songs. A cleric loses turning levels (hah!), and effective cleric levels for calculating his Domain powers. (A solid hit, but one that's generally expected as clerics always prestige). It's alright, but certainly too powerful for a divine bard/wizard. (A wizard who loses TWO caster levels, for the bard dip to qualify)

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Where I live.

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    The Cleric doesn't lose Domain power progression; they count as an ally for the purpose of Bardic Music effects, as well...
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Let's play a game, shall we? Current Game: END ROLL. Updates Mondays and Thursdays, 6PM EST.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Thanks very much for the comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra
    Inspire Virataa is WAY too strong when combined with Dragonfire Inspiration; that would be adding a number of d6s in damage equal to your Charisma modifier to ALL allies damage rolls.
    You just confirmed a concern I had, too. I'm going to change it to half the sant-kavi's Charisma modifier, to keep it a bit more in check but still fairly awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra
    Also, you might want to Beloved of the Lord a bit more frequent; as it is, their next attack will kill these guys. May I suggest having it be per day?
    I thought about this too, but I want the ability to be a bit more...miraculous. As in, not something the sant-kavi can rely on all the time. 3 per day isn't that much, but it's more than I'd like. I'm ok with it being an underpowered class feature, especially since they can heal themselves pretty well in a lot of cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra
    Inspire Shurataa can get crazy with stuff like the Destiny Domain, where all your allies can grant you rerolls, or Endurance (who wants a +1/2 their Cleric level (which usually is replaced by ECL by abilities like this) as an Enhancement bonus to Constitution for one minute), or Strength (+ECL to Strength for a round? I'm game.), or any of the domains that grant healing.

    I mean, I like it, but Heretic of the Faith makes this a little... excessive, what with granting everyone Death Touch or the like.

    I mean, I like it, but it pays to know what a given feature is capable of.
    Thanks for pointing these out. I don't play clerics very often, so despite having access to both of these domains, they didn't come to mind. Would limiting the ability to a few times per day help? That way it would still be powerful, but not quite as spam-able as it is when all you have to do is spend a bardic music use, which you're going to have plenty of.

    Hmm. Heretic of the faith raises interesting concerns. I don't have that book and had never heard of that feat before. I can think of a lot of flavor-related reasons why a sant-kavi wouldn't take it, but no mechanical ones. I'll have to think about how to address this.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi
    You know, a wizard could benefit from this class greatly by entering this class as a divine bard. In fact, that would be a devastating combination.
    I struggled with the entry requirements for a while, because I wanted to have an additional cleric-like requirement other than just divine spellcasting to deal with things like divine bard. But I also wanted the PrC to be open to classes like favored soul that have very cleric-y feels but don't have turn undead. Ultimately, you're right that divine bard is a very powerful way to get into this class but I can't think of a workaround that doesn't limit entry options too much, one way or another. What about something as simple as "Ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells as a bard." Kind of awkward, but it would limit out divine bard specifically while keeping the class open to favored souls, clerics, and other divine casters.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi
    Inspire Shurataa- You should add something that says "Each ally affected is considered to have an effective cleric level equal to his character level for the purposes of the domain powers." It's relevant due to things like the Strength Domain power or the Death Domain power.
    Done and done, though I made it half their character level rather than their full character level to keep it from being too much. Thanks for catching that!

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi
    Inspire Satya Bhakti- Now this is good. Drop a use, all allies voluntarily fail, move on. It's an interesting ability, but it's kind of...weak, for a capstone. Leaves me wanting more. Some kind of third, all-powerful ability for people under the effect of inspire bhakti.
    I guess I thought about this ability more for its out-of-combat utility rather than it's in-combat utility. I imagine a sant-kavi using this ability to construct networks of friendly acquaintances, spread their religious beliefs, or build political power. It's not too powerful in combat, but could definitely be useful over the course of a campaign. That said, I'm open to suggestions for how to make it more useful in combat as well.
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephibosheth View Post

    I struggled with the entry requirements for a while, because I wanted to have an additional cleric-like requirement other than just divine spellcasting to deal with things like divine bard. But I also wanted the PrC to be open to classes like favored soul that have very cleric-y feels but don't have turn undead. Ultimately, you're right that divine bard is a very powerful way to get into this class but I can't think of a workaround that doesn't limit entry options too much, one way or another. What about something as simple as "Ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells as a bard." Kind of awkward, but it would limit out divine bard specifically while keeping the class open to favored souls, clerics, and other divine casters.
    No, what you should do is have the table progress +1 bardic casting/+1 divine casting to prevent wizard benefit entirely. There are precedents for this (iirc most bard PrCs specify "bardic casting" instead of arcane casting in the table)


    Done and done, though I made it half their character level rather than their full character level to keep it from being too much. Thanks for catching that!
    You're welcome

    I guess I thought about this ability more for its out-of-combat utility rather than it's in-combat utility. I imagine a sant-kavi using this ability to construct networks of friendly acquaintances, spread their religious beliefs, or build political power. It's not too powerful in combat, but could definitely be useful over the course of a campaign. That said, I'm open to suggestions for how to make it more useful in combat as well.
    No problems with that, but as it's a capstone, it's supposed to justify you taking the class all the way til the end, rather than just playing a straight bard or cleric. (Bard loses a lot from this class, so it should gain a lot, and while 10 levels of divine casting may seem like a lot, it's just not enough to make up for the lost skill points, the lost bardic knowledge, and the lost songs.

    Most power-gamers would argue otherwise, but I believe that people who play bards play them for the fluff. For the musical ability, the skill-monkey role, and the fluff of being a wandering minstrel.

    This class, unlike most bard PrCs, takes all of that away while offering little in return, just the ability to spread your devotion among your group. (In that sense, it's more like a cleric who dipped bard than a religious bard)

    I don't really have any suggestions for how to improve this (as I've never read the poem and I don't really know the fluff behind all of this), but it's something I hope you'll think about.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    No, what you should do is have the table progress +1 bardic casting/+1 divine casting to prevent wizard benefit entirely. There are precedents for this (iirc most bard PrCs specify "bardic casting" instead of arcane casting in the table)
    Haha. Good call. Done and done.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    No problems with that, but as it's a capstone, it's supposed to justify you taking the class all the way til the end, rather than just playing a straight bard or cleric. (Bard loses a lot from this class, so it should gain a lot, and while 10 levels of divine casting may seem like a lot, it's just not enough to make up for the lost skill points, the lost bardic knowledge, and the lost songs.

    Most power-gamers would argue otherwise, but I believe that people who play bards play them for the fluff. For the musical ability, the skill-monkey role, and the fluff of being a wandering minstrel.

    This class, unlike most bard PrCs, takes all of that away while offering little in return, just the ability to spread your devotion among your group. (In that sense, it's more like a cleric who dipped bard than a religious bard)

    I don't really have any suggestions for how to improve this (as I've never read the poem and I don't really know the fluff behind all of this), but it's something I hope you'll think about.
    You're probably right about the capstone. I'll definitely keep thinking about what to add in to make it a bit more capstone-y. I also took your comments about the class abandoning a lot of bardic features as an excuse to bump the skill points back up to 6 per level. I was looking for a reason to do that. I hope you don't mind.

    I also added a new fluff paragraph to tie the class more strongly to music. I know it comes from a pretty specific (and somewhat esoteric) source material, so I hope this helps a bit.

    Incidentally, I agree with you about building bards for the flavor, rather than the crunch.

    Thanks a lot for your very helpful comments. I'll definitely keep thinking about the capstone...

    Mephibosheth
    Last edited by Mephibosheth; 2011-11-11 at 02:53 PM.
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Where I live.

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Limiting the Domain granted abilities to half-ECL would make them less abusable; after all, a 1/2 their ECL to Strength or 1/4 their ECL to Constitution isn't too strong.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Let's play a game, shall we? Current Game: END ROLL. Updates Mondays and Thursdays, 6PM EST.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Limiting the Domain granted abilities to half-ECL would make them less abusable; after all, a 1/2 their ECL to Strength or 1/4 their ECL to Constitution isn't too strong.
    +10 to their Strength isn't strong? You wound the barbarian, sir! Though I suppose the fact that it's an enhancement bonus balances it a little bit...

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Where I live.

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Barbarians also gain +10 Con, AND there is a ton of neat stuff that can be added to rage (can this trigger Mad Foam Rager? I think not!)

    Besides, Barbarian's bonus stacks with everything, and they gain that bonus for AT LEAST 8 rounds, compared to 1 round for this.

    Sorry for the off-topic; however, I would love to see this progressing Apostle of Peace.

    THAT would be tasty.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Let's play a game, shall we? Current Game: END ROLL. Updates Mondays and Thursdays, 6PM EST.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Barbarians also gain +10 Con, AND there is a ton of neat stuff that can be added to rage (can this trigger Mad Foam Rager? I think not!)

    Besides, Barbarian's bonus stacks with everything, and they gain that bonus for AT LEAST 8 rounds, compared to 1 round for this.
    Ah, the 1 round limitation. True. But remember, the original version was intended to be up to +20 (before prestige classes). +20 Strength for 1 round? Yes please. Not as good as a barbarian's Mighty Rage, but then...a barbarian can't also have the Transformation Domain and shapechange at the same time.

    Sorry for the off-topic; however, I would love to see this progressing Apostle of Peace.

    THAT would be tasty.
    This. Oh Asmodeus, this, +100. You would be untouchable.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Domriso's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Imma just pop in and say I love this with a passion. I quite enjoy myself some Hinduism, and the flavor here is great. The abilities are fun (I've never really been a Bard player, but from what I can tell this is pretty good), and it's just generally enjoyable.

    Good show, sir.
    Domriso's Homebrew Compendium - A collection of all of my homebrew, throwing in my own design philosophy and my conceptions for possible new things.

    Geomancy, Runic Magic, probably more at a later date:
    Come see my Homebrew!

    Ever heard of the Ultimate Classes? They're pretty sweet. Check them out here.

    I've had an interview over at Tellest! You should go see!

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso
    Imma just pop in and say I love this with a passion. I quite enjoy myself some Hinduism, and the flavor here is great. The abilities are fun (I've never really been a Bard player, but from what I can tell this is pretty good), and it's just generally enjoyable.

    Good show, sir.
    Thanks very much! I've often thought that South Asian folklore and history is a mine of gaming inspiration that has never been adequately tapped. I'm really glad you like the class!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra
    Sorry for the off-topic; however, I would love to see this progressing Apostle of Peace.

    THAT would be tasty.
    Am I missing something obvious? Wouldn't this be true of Ur Priest and Sublime Chord? Really any of the PrCs that grant rapid spell progression make dual progression PrCs like the sant-kavi more powerful, since they help you get high-level spells on both sides of the dual progression. Or is there something about the Apostle of Peace's class abilities that makes it a uniquely good combination? Or is it not something to worry about in terms of the class being overpowered, just a fun idea?

    Edit: One other thing I forgot to add. RE the capstone, what about a non-permanent Suggestion effect for all whose deity is changed or are otherwise affected by the sant-kavi's inspire bhakti ability (perhaps with the ability to exclude a certain number of creatures). A better capstone?
    Last edited by Mephibosheth; 2011-11-14 at 11:00 AM.
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Wyntonian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Oregon

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    I truly enjoy this class, and I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said. Mind if I write this into my worldbuilding project's Homebrew Whitelist?
    Guess who's good at avatars? Thormag. That's who.

    A Campaign Setting more than a year in the making, Patria!

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Where I live.

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    I'm not saying go Apostle of Peace because it's strong; I'm going Apostle of Peace for the FLAVOR, baby!

    Plus, the best of the 4, Ur Priest, isn't a valid choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Let's play a game, shall we? Current Game: END ROLL. Updates Mondays and Thursdays, 6PM EST.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyntonian
    I truly enjoy this class, and I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said. Mind if I write this into my worldbuilding project's Homebrew Whitelist?
    Not at all. If anyone uses it, let me know how it goes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra
    I'm not saying go Apostle of Peace because it's strong; I'm going Apostle of Peace for the FLAVOR, baby!

    Plus, the best of the 4, Ur Priest, isn't a valid choice.
    Ah. I get it now and definitely agree. I've always thought that a lot of the BoED content works really well from this perspective. It's definitely a match that begs to be made!
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    jiriku's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephibosheth View Post
    Inspire Bhakti (भक्ति):Initiating this ability is a standard action, during with the sant-kavi makes a perform check. All creatures who can hear the sant-kavi and whose Intelligence scores are greater than 3 make a Will save equal to the sant-kaviís perform check. Creatures whose alignment is 2 or more steps away from the sant-kaviís on a single alignment axis (evil-good or chaotic-lawful) or at least 1 step away from the sant-kaviís on both alignment axes gain a +4 circumstance bonus on this save. Creatures who are active enemies or rivals of the sant-kavi gain a +8 circumstance bonus on this save. Those who fail their save move one step closer to ďhelpfulĒ in their attitude regarding the sant-kavi (see the rules for the Diplomacy skill), consider the sant-kaviís deity as their own, and cannot attack or otherwise attempt to hinder or harm the sant-kavi for the duration of the effect.

    This effect lasts as long as the sant-kavi continues to perform and for a number of minutes thereafter equal to her class level plus her bard level.
    I read this several times, thinking I was misunderstanding it, but I think I have it correctly. You enter combat. You take a standard action to activate bardic music. Foes must save at +8 vs. your Perform check or else they worship your deity, are now unfriendly to you instead of hostile, and cannot attack, hinder, or harm you for the remainder of the combat. Meanwhile, you face no restrictions in your actions against them. So, for example, you can attack, hinder, or harm them and they cannot retaliate. Or (more likely) you can simply buff and support your allies, and no foe who failed the save, has any chance of harming you.

    So, it's basically like super duper sanctuary on speed. Huh. Not sure what I think of that.
    Subclasses for 5E: magus of blades, shadowcraft assassin, spellthief, void disciple
    Guides for 5E: Practical fiend-binding

    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Most popular: monk and fighter.


  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sant-Kavi: A Bard/Cleric PrC [3.5, PrC]

    Yeah. Pretty much. I'm going to add a clause that ends the effect if you attack someone under its influence, but basically, you're right. It's like a more powerful Sanctuary. I think I'm ok with it. The bonus on saves is pretty steep in combat situations and Sanctuary-like effects are useful, but only to a certain extent. Plus, it only affects creatures with Intelligence scores greater than or equal to 3, so there are any number of monsters that are immune to the ability.
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •