Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Author's Note: To save myself some typing and some sanity, every type of rage is acceptable to enter this class, but I'm only going to refer to it in the actual class as "raging". So don't worry everyone who hates PHB barbarian, you still get the bonuses.

    The Feral Sword

    The students of the Sublime Way often act as well-mannered, disciplined warriors. But there exists a bardic legend of an old school, deep in the forest, where wild savages practice the ways of the Sublime, and combine them with their bloodthirsty techniques to create a fighting style that is truly ferocious.

    The story began when a small band of crusaders was attacked while protecting a merchant van that was traveling through the forest on its normal trade route. A wrong turn led the caravan into a deep, unexplored part of the jungle, with a small road that looked well-maintained. The crusaders that survived reported hearing a strange sound, "like a hundred animals roaring in unison", before a group of scantily clad individuals leaped from the trees and pounced on the warriors.

    Clashes of steel and fire were everywhere, and as a few of the savages disappeared into thin air, while others stood their ground and smashed through the crusader's defenses like they were wielding swords made of diamond, it became clear to the divine band that these were followers of the Sublime Way. But where was their respect? Their discipline? Their honorable attitude?

    "It was gone," one of them said, a look of awe on his face. "I looked into my opponent's eyes and I did not see malice, nor anger, nor hatred...I saw...hunger. And not hunger for battle or desire to take something from me...for a moment there I was afraid that if I fell he would throw down his weapons and actually bite into my flesh...and eat me alive!"

    A large group of crusaders marched immediately in the forest to deal with the threat. One of them promised a weeping widow as he left, "Don't worry. We won't come back without his body."

    He kept that promise. Not one of them ever returned.

    They say that the forest holds a group of animals who somehow learned to move like humans, or perhaps humans who have only the instincts of an animal. Regardless of how the legend started, the feral swords, as they have since been called, rule over their forest, because no one dared ever set foot in there again.

    Prerequisites:
    In order to become a feral sword, you must meet the following prerequisites:

    Alignment: Any nonlawful
    Base Attack Bonus: +5
    Feat: Leap of the Heavens, Tiger-Blooded
    Skills: Jump 8 ranks
    Maneuvers: Able to initiate at least two Tiger Claw maneuvers
    Class Feature: Must have the Rage or Frenzy class features, or some variation of Rage
    Dedication to the Sublime: In order to qualify for the feral sword prestige class, a character may not have taken any levels in a class that granted fewer Base Attack Bonus than equal to their class level, with the exception of the swordsage class. As per the rules of Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior, any feral sword who takes levels in a class other than swordsage that grants 1/2 or 3/4 Base Attack Bonus progression immediately and irrevocably loses all his feral sword class features. The only way to retrieve them in this case is to receive enough negative levels that transform into actual level loss that you lose all your Average and Poor BAB levels.

    Hit Dice: d12

    Class Skills: The feral sword's class skills are Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Martial Lore, Move Silently, Ride, Survival, Swim, and Tumble.

    Skill Points: 4+Int per level

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Initiating

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Feral Strike +1, Diamond Rage| +1 level of initiator

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Claws of Fury|+1 level of initiator

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Feral Strike +2 |+1 level of initiator

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Hunting Tiger|

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Devour the Dragon, Crouching Tiger Pouncing Dragon|+1 level of initiator

    6th|+6|+5|+2|+2|Feral Strike +3|+1 level of initiator

    7th|+7|+5|+2|+2|The Tiger Roars|+1 level of initiator

    8th|+8|+6|+2|+2|Dance of the Tiger|

    9th|+9|+6|+3|+3|Feral Strike +4|+1 level of initiator

    10th|+10|+7|+3|+3|The Sublime Goes Wild|+1 level of initiator
    [/table]

    Class Features: The following are the feral sword's class features.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The feral sword gains proficiency with one exotic weapon, one exotic type of armor, and one exotic shield of his choice. (An NPC feral sword will generally choose a lynxpaw (Races of the Wild) and will use that weapon over others, unless he has a ranged focus)

    Initiator Level: At each level of feral sword except 4th and 8th, the feral sword gains a full initiator level, access to higher level maneuvers, access to new maneuvers known, maneuvers readied, and stances known, as if he had gained a level in an initiator class he had levels in before he took levels of feral sword. He may only progress a class that has access to the Tiger Claw discipline. Additionally, the feral sword's class levels stack with his base class levels for the purposes of determining when he can swap out maneuvers. (A warblade 4/barbarian 1/feral sword 5 would be able to switch one his maneuvers for a higher level one, as if he were a warblade 8)

    The feral sword gains no other benefits from his original class through this feature. Yes, I know this isn't how Tome of Battle does its prestige classes.

    Feral Strike (Ex): A feral sword's power comes from his rage, but it is released through his martial techniques. While a feral sword is raging, when he uses a strike maneuver that grants him a melee attack with additional dice of damage, he deals an extra point of damage per die. This bonus increases to +2 per die at level 3, +3 per die at level 6, and +4 per die at level 9.

    Diamond Rage (Ex): The feral swords are very well-balanced, and stand between the structured discipline of the Sublime Way and the chaotic bestial nature of a barbarian. While a feral sword is raging, he is able to use the Concentration skill.

    Claws of Fury (Ex): A feral sword is a master of the Tiger Claw discipline. While he is raging, a feral sword gains a rend attack when using two weapons. Whenever he successfully hits an opponent with both his weapons, he automatically rends them, dealing additional damage equal to his main hand weapon's damage dice, plus his off-hand weapon's damage dice, plus 1 1/2 times his Strength modifier. This rend attack applies automatically each time both weapons connect, and can apply multiple times per round if the feral sword strikes with both weapons more than once.

    Hunting Tiger (Ex): Starting at 4th level, while a feral sword is raging, he gains the pounce ability, allowing him to make a full attack or a full-attack strike maneuver at the end of a charge. Additionally, while raging, if a feral sword initiates a boost during the same round that he charges, he and his weapons are treated as if they were one Size category larger than they already are. (To a maximum of Colossal+)

    Devour the Dragon (Ex): A tiger is a dragon's natural enemy. Starting at 5th level, a feral sword receives a +5 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls he makes against creatures of the dragon type while he is raging, and is also immune to the effects of a dragon's Frightful Presence ability while he is raging.

    Crouching Tiger, Pouncing Dragon (Ex): A feral sword does not study each discipline as a separate, unique school, but rather how all of them relate to the mighty Tiger Claw discipline. Starting at 5th level, a feral sword ignores all movement restrictions on the stances and maneuvers of the Stone Dragon discipline. He may use Stone Dragon maneuvers when he is not in contact with the ground, and any time he uses a Stone Dragon strike to ignore damage reduction, he may make a Jump check (DC equal to the target's HD + 10) If he succeeds, he leaps into the air and delivers the strike as a crushing blow, dealing additional damage equal to the result of his Jump check. If he fails, the maneuver is wasted and has no effect, and the feral sword does not hit the target with his melee attack.

    The Tiger Roars (Ex): A tiger is a ferocious beast that does not allow mercy. Starting at 7th level, when a feral sword enters his rage, he may make a loud roar as a free action. This is a sonic effect. All enemy creatures within 60 ft who can see and hear the feral sword must make a Will save (DC 10+class level+Charisma modifier) or be shaken for the duration of the feral sword's rage. Additionally, the Jump check DCs for any Tiger Claw maneuvers the feral sword makes against a shaken creature are reduced by 5.

    Dance of the Tiger (Ex): A feral sword slashes and cuts his way across the battlefield without fear. In his left hand, he wields a deadly instrument of destruction, and in his right, an equally deadly weapon of destruction.

    Starting at 8th level, as long as a feral sword is in a Tiger Claw stance he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting feats. He need not meet any of the prerequisites. Additionally, while the feral sword is simultaneously raging and in a Tiger Claw stance, he receives a +2 perfection bonus on attacks made while wielding two weapons, effectively reducing his penalty on attack rolls to 0.

    The Sublime Goes Wild (Ex): At 10th level, a feral sword's blending of rage and initiator reaches its peak, and the feral sword's telling blows become even more ferocious. Starting at 10th level, when a feral sword enters his rage, he may voluntarily surrender his ability to use the highest level maneuver(s) he has readied for the duration of his rage. If he does so, the bonus to his Strength score from his rage ability increases by the maneuver level. (For example, a warblade 4/barbarian 1/feral sword 10 could have a 7th level maneuver readied, and choose not to use it for the duration of his rage. If he does so, his bonus to his Strength is +11, instead of +4)
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-11-15 at 11:10 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Domriso's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Woah. This is pure power. This is a class I would play the crap out of. I love two-weapon fighting, and raging is always fun, so this just looks like a blast. Those end-abilities are pure joy, especially that capstone. No idea if this is balanced, but my gut says "Who cares?"
    Domriso's Homebrew Compendium - A collection of all of my homebrew, throwing in my own design philosophy and my conceptions for possible new things.

    Geomancy, Runic Magic, probably more at a later date:
    Come see my Homebrew!

    Ever heard of the Ultimate Classes? They're pretty sweet. Check them out here.

    I've had an interview over at Tellest! You should go see!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso View Post
    Woah. This is pure power. This is a class I would play the crap out of. I love two-weapon fighting, and raging is always fun, so this just looks like a blast. Those end-abilities are pure joy, especially that capstone. No idea if this is balanced, but my gut says "Who cares?"
    Why thank you Domriso! I'm rather pleased with how it came out myself.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GuyFawkes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    How the hell do you keep chucking out these classes as if you're just making your homework?

    My first impression: Tiger Claw, Two-Weapon Fighting, Hell Yeah!

    Alright, here's my attempt at a PEACH:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The feral sword gains proficiency with one exotic weapon, one exotic type of armor, and one exotic shield of his choice. (An NPC feral sword will generally choose a lynxpaw (Races of the Wild) and will use that weapon over others, unless he has a ranged focus)
    Nice touch on the exotic weapon and armor, as the class is exotic.

    Feral Strike (Ex): A feral sword's power comes from his rage, but it is released through his martial techniques. While a feral sword is raging, when he uses a strike maneuver that grants him a melee attack with additional dice of damage, he deals an extra point of damage per die. This bonus increases to +2 per die at level 3, +3 per die at level 6, and +4 per die at level 9.
    Pretty solid. Not much to say here.

    Diamond Rage (Ex): The feral swords are very well-balanced, and stand between the structured discipline of the Sublime Way and the chaotic bestial nature of a barbarian. While a feral sword is raging, he is able to use the Concentration skill.
    Nice touch. Takes care of some of the drawbacks of Raging.

    Claws of Fury (Ex): A feral sword is a master of the Tiger Claw discipline. While he is raging, a feral sword gains a rend attack when using two weapons. Whenever he uses a Tiger Claw strike maneuver and successfully hits an opponent with both his weapons, he automatically rends them, dealing additional damage equal to his main hand weapon's damage dice, plus his off-hand weapon's damage dice, plus 1 1/2 times his Strength modifier. This rend attack applies automatically each time both weapons connect, and can apply multiple times per round if the feral sword strikes with both weapons more than once.
    Now this is how rend should be! Nice!

    Hunting Tiger (Ex): Starting at 4th level, while a feral sword is raging, he gains the pounce ability, allowing him to make a full attack or a full-attack strike maneuver at the end of a charge. Additionally, if a feral sword initiates a boost during the same round that he charges, he and his weapons are treated as if they were one Size category larger than they already are. (To a maximum of Colossal+)
    Can't ever get enough of pounce. Nice touch on the added size effect when using boosts.

    Devour the Dragon (Ex): A tiger is a dragon's natural enemy. Starting at 5th level, a feral sword receives a +5 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls he makes against dragons while he is raging, and is also immune to the effects of the dragon's Frightful Presence ability while he is raging.
    Pretty solid fluff ability.

    The Tiger Roars (Ex): A tiger is a ferocious beast that does not allow mercy. Starting at 7th level, when a feral sword enters his rage, he may make a loud roar as a free action. This is a sonic effect. All enemy creatures within 60 ft who can see and hear the feral sword must make a Will save (DC 10+class level+Charisma modifier) or be shaken for the duration of the feral sword's rage. Additionally, the Jump check DCs for any Tiger Claw maneuvers the feral sword makes against a shaken creature are reduced by 5.
    Warning of impending doom. Me likey! RAWR! You die now!

    Dance of the Tiger (Ex): A feral sword slashes and cuts his way across the battlefield without fear. In his left hand, he wields a deadly instrument of destruction, and in his right, an equally deadly weapon of destruction.

    Starting at 8th level, as long as a feral sword is in a Tiger Claw stance he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting feats. He need not meet any of the prerequisites. Additionally, while the feral sword is simultaneously raging and in a Tiger Claw stance, he receives a +2 perfection bonus on attacks made while wielding two weapons, effectively reducing his penalty on attack rolls to 0.
    This is nice, especially for a Tiger Claw themed class. However, at 8th level, or ECL of 13, you'd have gotten most of these feats anyway, so effectively you get only half. Or if you'd hold back on getting these feats, so for the most part you can't take advantage of your added attacks. Unless that's what you intend. It would be nice to have this as a sort of scaling ability you get at say 1st or 2nd level and you get another feat every two levels.

    The Sublime Goes Wild (Ex): At 10th level, a feral sword's blending of rage and initiator reaches its peak, and the feral sword's telling blows become even more ferocious. Starting at 10th level, when a feral sword enters his rage, he may voluntarily surrender his ability to use the highest level maneuver(s) he has readied for the duration of his rage. If he does so, the bonus to his Strength score from his rage ability increases by the maneuver level. (For example, a warblade 4/barbarian 1/feral sword 10 could have a 7th level maneuver readied, and choose not to use it for the duration of his rage. If he does so, his bonus to his Strength is +11, instead of +4)
    Pretty solid ability. Nothing much to comment. Hmm, perhaps added bonus for the other features as well. Maybe the will saves?



    Overall, very nice class! Good job!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFawkes View Post
    How the hell do you keep chucking out these classes as if you're just making your homework?
    What? What are you talking about? I never do my homework!


    My first impression: Tiger Claw, Two-Weapon Fighting, Hell Yeah!
    Hell yeah indeed!

    Alright, here's my attempt at a PEACH:



    Nice touch on the exotic weapon and armor, as the class is exotic.
    Indeed! This is actually intended to give proficiency with a cool exotic double weapon (such as a two-bladed sword or a lynxpaw) so you have the option of using that instead of two weapons.



    Nice touch. Takes care of some of the drawbacks of Raging.
    The Diamond Mind discipline is too awesome for most people to just let go of it. So now they don't have to.

    Now this is how rend should be! Nice!
    Why thank you!

    Can't ever get enough of pounce. Nice touch on the added size effect when using boosts.
    I figured it wasn't too powerful, since pounce by itself is gotten at CL 1 by most barbarians.

    Pretty solid fluff ability.
    If you ever played Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations, I'm a big fan of Don Tigre, and he has a great Tiger theme against Phoenix (Ryu in the Japanese). His shirt even has a picture of a tiger eating a dragon on it.

    Warning of impending doom. Me likey! RAWR! You die now!
    Yeah, it's like Intimidating Rage, only it doesn't suck and it doesn't require a skill check.

    This is nice, especially for a Tiger Claw themed class. However, at 8th level, or ECL of 13, you'd have gotten most of these feats anyway, so effectively you get only half. Or if you'd hold back on getting these feats, so for the most part you can't take advantage of your added attacks. Unless that's what you intend. It would be nice to have this as a sort of scaling ability you get at say 1st or 2nd level and you get another feat every two levels.
    Well, you can't take Greater Two-Weapon Fighting until 12th level anyway (no feat at 11th level), so if it's the price of waiting a single level to get the same feat, I'd rather wait.

    The thing is, most Tiger Claw maneuvers grant you the option of attacking with your two weapons already. So as long as you have the original Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you probably won't get much use out of the others, as you gain additional attacks from your maneuvers already.

    Pretty solid ability. Nothing much to comment. Hmm, perhaps added bonus for the other features as well. Maybe the will saves?
    Perhaps. I'll wait on that, get some more PEACH before I decide.

    Overall, very nice class! Good job!

    Thanks for your review! Glad you liked the class!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lateral's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Hell's Heart

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Looks pretty cool, at first glance; let's take a look, shall we?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Prerequisites:
    In order to become a feral sword, you must meet the following prerequisites:

    Alignment: Any nonlawful
    Normally, I'd hate all over having alignment restrictions, but this is just the same as a normal barbarian, so it's okay.
    Base Attack Bonus: +5
    Feat: Skill Focus (Jump)
    Don't bother with Skill Focus (Jump); that's basically just a feat tax, since even though everything's based on Jump, one feat for a +3 bonus is pretty much never worth it. How about Leap of the Heavens (PHBII) instead? It's much less sucky, and is also jumping-focused.
    Skills: Jump 8 ranks
    Maneuvers: Able to initiate at least two Tiger Claw maneuvers, neither of which may have been obtained with the Martial Study feat.
    This seems kind of awkward. I see that you did it like that to prevent people from getting in without actual Warblade or Swordsage levels, but why would anyone want to? It wouldn't progress anything, since your progression method is different from the way the PrCs in the ToB progress. That clause against Martial Study is kind of pointless; you don't need it.
    Class Feature: Must have the Rage or Frenzy class features, or some variation of Rage that was granted to you when you took your first level of barbarian.
    Don't specify one that was granted as a Barbarian 1; just have it be Rage, Frenzy, or some variation of those. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to qualify as a Half-Orc Paragon who took Whirling Frenzy instead of regular Rage; Whirling Frenzy is a rage variant, not a barbarian variant, and anyone who gets rage can trade for it.
    Dedication to the Sublime: In order to qualify for the feral sword prestige class, a character may not have taken any levels in a class that granted fewer Base Attack Bonus than equal to their class level, with the exception of the swordsage class. As per the rules of Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior, any feral sword who takes levels in a class other than swordsage that grants 1/2 or 3/4 Base Attack Bonus progression immediately and irrevocably loses all his feral sword class features. The only way to retrieve them in this case is to receive enough negative levels that transform into actual level loss that you lose all your Average and Poor BAB levels.
    Weird, but okay.

    Hit Dice: d12

    Class Skills: The feral sword's class skills are Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Martial Lore, Swim, and Tumble.

    Skill Points: 4+Int per level
    Decent basics. I approve.

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Initiating

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Feral Strike +1, Diamond Rage| +1 level of initiator

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Claws of Fury|+1 level of initiator

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Feral Strike +2 |+1 level of initiator

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Hunting Tiger|+1 level of initiator

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Devour the Dragon|+1 level of initiator

    6th|+6|+5|+2|+2|Feral Strike +3|+1 level of initiator

    7th|+7|+5|+2|+2|The Tiger Roars|+1 level of initiator

    8th|+8|+6|+2|+2|Dance of the Tiger|+1 level of intiator

    9th|+9|+6|+3|+3|Feral Strike +4|+1 level of initiator

    10th|+10|+7|+3|+3|The Sublime Goes Wild|+1 level of initiator
    [/table]
    No dead levels. I approve again.

    Class Features: The following are the feral sword's class features.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The feral sword gains proficiency with one exotic weapon, one exotic type of armor, and one exotic shield of his choice. (An NPC feral sword will generally choose a lynxpaw (Races of the Wild) and will use that weapon over others, unless he has a ranged focus)
    Ooh, that's different. Pretty cool.

    Initiator Level: At each level of feral sword, the feral sword gains a full initiator level, access to higher level maneuvers, access to new maneuvers known, maneuvers readied, and stances known, as if he had gained a level in an initiator class he had levels in before he took levels of feral sword. He may only progress a class that has access to the Tiger Claw discipline. Additionally, the feral sword's class levels stack with his base class levels for the purposes of determining when he can swap out maneuvers. (A warblade 4/barbarian 1/feral sword 4 would be able to switch one his maneuvers for a higher level one, as if he were a warblade 8)

    The feral sword gains no other benefits from his original class through this feature. Yes, I know this isn't how Tome of Battle does its prestige classes.
    Lots of homebrews do it this way; it's easier to design that way. No problem, although full progression may be a bit strong. Depending on how good the abilities are, I might recommend losing an IL at 5th level; with that and the two Barbarian levels I presume you would usually be using to enter the class (since each level of Barbarian is +0.5 IL), you'd retain access to 9th level maneuvers easily but it's a little less of a given considering how easy the prerequisites are.

    Feral Strike (Ex): A feral sword's power comes from his rage, but it is released through his martial techniques. While a feral sword is raging, when he uses a strike maneuver that grants him a melee attack with additional dice of damage, he deals an extra point of damage per die. This bonus increases to +2 per die at level 3, +3 per die at level 6, and +4 per die at level 9.
    That, right there? That's nice. That plus Rabid Bear Strike gets you an easy +110 damage to one attack by level 14. It's not too strong, certainly, and it's nice to see a numerical damage bonus that doesn't suck.

    Diamond Rage (Ex): The feral swords are very well-balanced, and stand between the structured discipline of the Sublime Way and the chaotic bestial nature of a barbarian. While a feral sword is raging, he is able to use the Concentration skill.
    THANK YOU.

    Claws of Fury (Ex): A feral sword is a master of the Tiger Claw discipline. While he is raging, a feral sword gains a rend attack when using two weapons. Whenever he uses a Tiger Claw strike maneuver and successfully hits an opponent with both his weapons, he automatically rends them, dealing additional damage equal to his main hand weapon's damage dice, plus his off-hand weapon's damage dice, plus 1 1/2 times his Strength modifier. This rend attack applies automatically each time both weapons connect, and can apply multiple times per round if the feral sword strikes with both weapons more than once.
    Cool. Free rend is always nice.

    Hunting Tiger (Ex): Starting at 4th level, while a feral sword is raging, he gains the pounce ability, allowing him to make a full attack or a full-attack strike maneuver at the end of a charge. Additionally, while raging, if a feral sword initiates a boost during the same round that he charges, he and his weapons are treated as if they were one Size category larger than they already are. (To a maximum of Colossal+)
    It's good that this has an additional use other than pounce, since many Barbarians already have Pounce from Spirit Lion Totem.

    Devour the Dragon (Ex): A tiger is a dragon's natural enemy. Starting at 5th level, a feral sword receives a +5 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls he makes against dragons while he is raging, and is also immune to the effects of the dragon's Frightful Presence ability while he is raging.
    Flavorful, but of sharply limited usage. Good to have, but it might be nice to add another ability at 5th level, especially if you lose an IL there- the abilities are powerful enough that I think it would be a good idea. Also, specify that this affects creatures with the Dragon type and/or the [dragonblooded] subtype; this makes it a little more generally useful, and also prevents arguments about what it affects.

    The Tiger Roars (Ex): A tiger is a ferocious beast that does not allow mercy. Starting at 7th level, when a feral sword enters his rage, he may make a loud roar as a free action. This is a sonic effect. All enemy creatures within 60 ft who can see and hear the feral sword must make a Will save (DC 10+class level+Charisma modifier) or be shaken for the duration of the feral sword's rage. Additionally, the Jump check DCs for any Tiger Claw maneuvers the feral sword makes against a shaken creature are reduced by 5.
    This is kind of cool; it targets pretty much all enemies, but the save is lower than it is with Intimidating Rage. The Jump DC lowering is icing on the cake; I like it. I might make the save DC 10+class level+STR mod+CHA mod, since you're likely to have a low to mediocre CHA score and a great STR score; this makes it useful for low-CHA characters and devastating for more charismatic Feral Swords.
    Dance of the Tiger (Ex): A feral sword slashes and cuts his way across the battlefield without fear. In his left hand, he wields a deadly instrument of destruction, and in his right, an equally deadly weapon of destruction.

    Starting at 8th level, as long as a feral sword is in a Tiger Claw stance he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting feats. He need not meet any of the prerequisites. Additionally, while the feral sword is simultaneously raging and in a Tiger Claw stance, he receives a +2 perfection bonus on attacks made while wielding two weapons, effectively reducing his penalty on attack rolls to 0.
    Shiny. It's much better if you have some way of switching out feats once you get here; you'll almost always be in a Tiger Claw stance, at this point.

    The Sublime Goes Wild (Ex): At 10th level, a feral sword's blending of rage and initiator reaches its peak, and the feral sword's telling blows become even more ferocious. Starting at 10th level, when a feral sword enters his rage, he may voluntarily surrender his ability to use the highest level maneuver(s) he has readied for the duration of his rage. If he does so, the bonus to his Strength score from his rage ability increases by the maneuver level. (For example, a warblade 4/barbarian 1/feral sword 10 could have a 7th level maneuver readied, and choose not to use it for the duration of his rage. If he does so, his bonus to his Strength is +11, instead of +4)
    Nice name.
    Pretty cool ability, too- MOAR STRENGHT is always welcome.

    All in all, I like it, but it may need some adjusting. In particular, I recommend changing the Skill Focus (Jump) requirement to Leap of the Heavens, add Tiger Blooded as a feat requirement, adding another ability at 5th in addition to Devour the Dragon, and making it lose an IL at 5th level. Stricter requirements and a slightly slowed progression makes it less of an obvious choice for anyone who focuses on Tiger Claw, and as it is 5th level is kind of a weak level. I recommend adding an ability that lets you make an attack with both weapons at your full normal attack bonus on any Tiger Claw strike that normally only allows you to make one attack, and have any extra damage (but not other effects) split between the two attacks; that way, you benefit from both weapons on strikes, boosts that affect your attacks when you attack with two weapons, and Claws of Fury without it getting too ridiculous. Being able to use this, Feral Strike, and Rabid Bear Strike to get two attacks, both with an average of 110 damage per hit at 14th level is a bit much, although only doing it once isn't; the "bonus damage is split evenly" clause prevents it from getting ridiculous.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Don't bother with Skill Focus (Jump); that's basically just a feat tax, since even though everything's based on Jump, one feat for a +3 bonus is pretty much never worth it. How about Leap of the Heavens (PHBII) instead? It's much less sucky, and is also jumping-focused.
    I like feat taxes as prerequisites. They make the player pay for his entrance into the class. Plenty of prestige classes have them, and I think the system works well.

    This seems kind of awkward. I see that you did it like that to prevent people from getting in without actual Warblade or Swordsage levels, but why would anyone want to? It wouldn't progress anything, since your progression method is different from the way the PrCs in the ToB progress. That clause against Martial Study is kind of pointless; you don't need it.
    True. Guess I'll take it out then.

    Don't specify one that was granted as a Barbarian 1; just have it be Rage, Frenzy, or some variation of those. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to qualify as a Half-Orc Paragon who took Whirling Frenzy instead of regular Rage; Whirling Frenzy is a rage variant, not a barbarian variant, and anyone who gets rage can trade for it.
    Alright then.

    Weird, but okay.
    Gishes and rage-rogues annoy me. This class is really powerful, so I want to prevent as much casting/precision/extra stuff as possible. It's supposed to benefit Full BAB classes, and full BAB classes that aren't ToB generally don't get anything too shiny.



    Ooh, that's different. Pretty cool.
    Thank you.


    Lots of homebrews do it this way; it's easier to design that way. No problem, although full progression may be a bit strong. Depending on how good the abilities are, I might recommend losing an IL at 5th level; with that and the two Barbarian levels I presume you would usually be using to enter the class (since each level of Barbarian is +0.5 IL), you'd retain access to 9th level maneuvers easily but it's a little less of a given considering how easy the prerequisites are.
    5th level is already pretty bad due to the specific ability there, without the IL it'd practically be a dead level. I'll take it out at 4th when you get Hunting Tiger.

    That, right there? That's nice. That plus Rabid Bear Strike gets you an easy +110 damage to one attack by level 14. It's not too strong, certainly, and it's nice to see a numerical damage bonus that doesn't suck.
    Assuming you hit, yeah. And that's what Tiger Claw is all about right? Jumping and damage

    THANK YOU.
    This was pretty much needed to ensure anyone would actually play a raging initiator.

    Cool. Free rend is always nice.
    Yes, but the Two-Weapon Rend feat is pretty...terrible.

    It's good that this has an additional use other than pounce, since many Barbarians already have Pounce from Spirit Lion Totem.
    Yep. Now a barbarian can trade his Fast Movement for something else at level one, if he wants.

    Flavorful, but of sharply limited usage. Good to have, but it might be nice to add another ability at 5th level, especially if you lose an IL there- the abilities are powerful enough that I think it would be a good idea. Also, specify that this affects creatures with the Dragon type and/or the [dragonblooded] subtype; this makes it a little more generally useful, and also prevents arguments about what it affects.
    This class is very powerful already. I like flavor abilities, and I think it'll be just fine as long as I don't drop the IL.

    This is kind of cool; it targets pretty much all enemies, but the save is lower than it is with Intimidating Rage. The Jump DC lowering is icing on the cake; I like it. I might make the save DC 10+class level+STR mod+CHA mod, since you're likely to have a low to mediocre CHA score and a great STR score; this makes it useful for low-CHA characters and devastating for more charismatic Feral Swords.
    That's a little strong, in my opinion. Since it affects all enemies within 60 feet, you're probably likely to get a few of them by level 10, even with just a 10 Cha.

    Shiny. It's much better if you have some way of switching out feats once you get here; you'll almost always be in a Tiger Claw stance, at this point.
    As a ToB class, you have had better things to spend you feats on than Two-Weapon Fighting and its feats, and I'd be pretty surprised if they found room for Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting by this point, so at least there's that.

    Nice name.
    Pretty cool ability, too- MOAR STRENGHT is always welcome.
    This is where you one-level dip into Frenzied Berserker, just to get the Frenzy to stack with your rage, and then you go CRAZY.

    All in all, I like it, but it may need some adjusting. In particular, I recommend changing the Skill Focus (Jump) requirement to Leap of the Heavens, add Tiger Blooded as a feat requirement, adding another ability at 5th in addition to Devour the Dragon, and making it lose an IL at 5th level. Stricter requirements and a slightly slowed progression makes it less of an obvious choice for anyone who focuses on Tiger Claw, and as it is 5th level is kind of a weak level. I recommend adding an ability that lets you make an attack with both weapons at your full normal attack bonus on any Tiger Claw strike that normally only allows you to make one attack, and have any extra damage (but not other effects) split between the two attacks; that way, you benefit from both weapons on strikes, boosts that affect your attacks when you attack with two weapons, and Claws of Fury without it getting too ridiculous. Being able to use this, Feral Strike, and Rabid Bear Strike to get two attacks, both with an average of 110 damage per hit at 14th level is a bit much, although only doing it once isn't; the "bonus damage is split evenly" clause prevents it from getting ridiculous.
    Alright, I'll add Tiger-Blooded to the prereq feats, but not Leap of the Heavens, and remove an IL at 4th. And your suggested ability is too strong for my tastes. I think The Sublime Goes Wild, combined with Feral Strike and Claws of Fury is already pushing the melee power limit.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    TravelLog's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    The Feral Sword

    The students of the Sublime Way often act as well-mannered, disciplined warriors. But there exists a bardic legend of an old school, deep in the forest, where wild savages practice the ways of the Sublime, and combine them with their bloodthirsty techniques to create a fighting style that is truly ferocious.
    I like the name. I'm also a sucker for in-depth fluff however, so I'd like to hear more about this legend of Sublime savagery.

    Prerequisites:
    In order to become a feral sword, you must meet the following prerequisites:

    Alignment: Any nonlawful
    Base Attack Bonus: +5
    Feat: Skill Focus (Jump), Tiger-Blooded
    Skills: Jump 8 ranks
    Maneuvers: Able to initiate at least two Tiger Claw maneuvers
    Class Feature: Must have the Rage or Frenzy class features, or some variation of Rage
    Dedication to the Sublime: In order to qualify for the feral sword prestige class, a character may not have taken any levels in a class that granted fewer Base Attack Bonus than equal to their class level, with the exception of the swordsage class. As per the rules of Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior, any feral sword who takes levels in a class other than swordsage that grants 1/2 or 3/4 Base Attack Bonus progression immediately and irrevocably loses all his feral sword class features. The only way to retrieve them in this case is to receive enough negative levels that transform into actual level loss that you lose all your Average and Poor BAB levels.
    Wow there are a lot of things here. Nonlawful is fine, standard for barbarian-ish classes. BAB and Skill reqs are solid too, as are the class feature and maneuver requirements. I strongly dislike Skill Focus (Jump) though. There are a number of better jump-related feats. My recommendation?

    "Tiger-blooded and one of the following: Battle Jump (Unapproachable East, LOVE this feat) OR Leap of the Heavens". If you want a tax, make them also take the Wall-Jumper Skill Trick or something. Skill Focus feats are never a good investment.

    Hit Dice: d12

    Class Skills: The feral sword's class skills are Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Martial Lore, Swim, and Tumble.

    Skill Points: 4+Int per level
    Hit dice are fine, as are skill points. I do not understand why a raging barbarian has Diplomacy though. Handle Animal should be thrown in there, along with Ride and Survival from the Barbarian list.

    {table=head]
    *Table*
    [/table]
    Full BAB and good Fort I agree with, along with Bad will. I think they should get at least average Reflex, especially with a focus on the agile, dextrous Tiger Claw discipline.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The feral sword gains proficiency with one exotic weapon, one exotic type of armor, and one exotic shield of his choice. (An NPC feral sword will generally choose a lynxpaw (Races of the Wild) and will use that weapon over others, unless he has a ranged focus)
    LOVE this. Very unique, and not something I've seen before.

    Initiator Level: At each level of feral sword except 4th, the feral sword gains a full initiator level, access to higher level maneuvers, access to new maneuvers known, maneuvers readied, and stances known, as if he had gained a level in an initiator class he had levels in before he took levels of feral sword. He may only progress a class that has access to the Tiger Claw discipline. Additionally, the feral sword's class levels stack with his base class levels for the purposes of determining when he can swap out maneuvers. (A warblade 4/barbarian 1/feral sword 4 would be able to switch one his maneuvers for a higher level one, as if he were a warblade 8)

    The feral sword gains no other benefits from his original class through this feature. Yes, I know this isn't how Tome of Battle does its prestige classes.
    Remove the last line. It's snarky 9/10 initiating other than that, which is fine I guess, though I would have chosen 5th or 10th rather than 4th, as that is an unusual break point.

    Feral Strike (Ex): A feral sword's power comes from his rage, but it is released through his martial techniques. While a feral sword is raging, when he uses a strike maneuver that grants him a melee attack with additional dice of damage, he deals an extra point of damage per die. This bonus increases to +2 per die at level 3, +3 per die at level 6, and +4 per die at level 9.
    Powerful and profitable, simple and elegant. Like it.

    Diamond Rage (Ex): The feral swords are very well-balanced, and stand between the structured discipline of the Sublime Way and the chaotic bestial nature of a barbarian. While a feral sword is raging, he is able to use the Concentration skill.
    Finally allowing Barbarians/ragers to use Diamond Mind maneuvers. Thank you for this. If nothing else, I would dip every barbarian I have that learns maneuvers just for this ability.

    Claws of Fury (Ex): A feral sword is a master of the Tiger Claw discipline. While he is raging, a feral sword gains a rend attack when using two weapons. Whenever he uses a Tiger Claw strike maneuver and successfully hits an opponent with both his weapons, he automatically rends them, dealing additional damage equal to his main hand weapon's damage dice, plus his off-hand weapon's damage dice, plus 1 1/2 times his Strength modifier. This rend attack applies automatically each time both weapons connect, and can apply multiple times per round if the feral sword strikes with both weapons more than once.
    A solid addition. I've never been a huge fan of rend, but this is pretty good.

    Hunting Tiger (Ex): Starting at 4th level, while a feral sword is raging, he gains the pounce ability, allowing him to make a full attack or a full-attack strike maneuver at the end of a charge. Additionally, while raging, if a feral sword initiates a boost during the same round that he charges, he and his weapons are treated as if they were one Size category larger than they already are. (To a maximum of Colossal+)
    Very much like this one. Though I think you should add some other addition in the event he has pounce already (a benefit gained only if he already have pounce, to encourage pouncers to take the class). I'd beware of the size category thing however, as, for example, I've been known to play barbarians whose base size was Large, with a permanent enlarge person (now Huge), wielding Huge weapons. Having a charging player and his weapons both treated as Gargantuan is something to be wary of. I'd say he is treated as one size category larger than his base state. That way, he can't gain a double benefit from enlarge person or the like, even if his weapon isn't scaled likewise.

    Devour the Dragon (Ex): A tiger is a dragon's natural enemy. Starting at 5th level, a feral sword receives a +5 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls he makes against creatures of the dragon type while he is raging, and is also immune to the effects of a dragon's Frightful Presence ability while he is raging.
    Flavorful, but at the same time I have no idea until the first sentence of this ability that you were going to go in that direction. I'd like to see something of that in the overall class fluff at the beginning so this makes a little more sense. Also, it's very situational. So you might want to throw in another 5th level ability (not necessarily a big one, just something).

    The Tiger Roars (Ex): A tiger is a ferocious beast that does not allow mercy. Starting at 7th level, when a feral sword enters his rage, he may make a loud roar as a free action. This is a sonic effect. All enemy creatures within 60 ft who can see and hear the feral sword must make a Will save (DC 10+class level+Charisma modifier) or be shaken for the duration of the feral sword's rage. Additionally, the Jump check DCs for any Tiger Claw maneuvers the feral sword makes against a shaken creature are reduced by 5.
    I like this, but I'm confused about why they have to see him as well as hear him for a sonic effect. That renders the ability useless underground, as well as for any creature who can use darkness or a caster with any of the dozens of conjuration spells that hinder vision. Good addition on the Tiger Claw boost though, by the way.

    Dance of the Tiger (Ex): A feral sword slashes and cuts his way across the battlefield without fear. In his left hand, he wields a deadly instrument of destruction, and in his right, an equally deadly weapon of destruction.

    Starting at 8th level, as long as a feral sword is in a Tiger Claw stance he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting feats. He need not meet any of the prerequisites. Additionally, while the feral sword is simultaneously raging and in a Tiger Claw stance, he receives a +2 perfection bonus on attacks made while wielding two weapons, effectively reducing his penalty on attack rolls to 0.
    Fantastic. I might make it so that he can switch out any of the non-base TWF feats from that line for other feats though. As is, I would not take them when entering this class since I knew I would get this ability and would always be in a Tiger Claw stance, but that would make my character a lot weaker at lower levels.

    The Sublime Goes Wild (Ex): At 10th level, a feral sword's blending of rage and initiator reaches its peak, and the feral sword's telling blows become even more ferocious. Starting at 10th level, when a feral sword enters his rage, he may voluntarily surrender his ability to use the highest level maneuver(s) he has readied for the duration of his rage. If he does so, the bonus to his Strength score from his rage ability increases by the maneuver level. (For example, a warblade 4/barbarian 1/feral sword 10 could have a 7th level maneuver readied, and choose not to use it for the duration of his rage. If he does so, his bonus to his Strength is +11, instead of +4)
    This is nice, but it doesn't scream capstone to me. I would put this at 9th, and make a new capstone, or add something else to this. Let me think for a little while and I'll see if I can come up with anything that might be fitting.

    On the whole, a great take on the Barbarian initiator, and a powerful one at that!
    My Extended Homebrewer's Signature


    Gunslinger avatar and banner by Flumphy.

    Old Avatars:
    Spoiler
    Show


    Auron avatar by C-Lam

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
    I like the name. I'm also a sucker for in-depth fluff however, so I'd like to hear more about this legend of Sublime savagery.
    Sure, I guess I can write a bit more of that up.

    Wow there are a lot of things here. Nonlawful is fine, standard for barbarian-ish classes. BAB and Skill reqs are solid too, as are the class feature and maneuver requirements. I strongly dislike Skill Focus (Jump) though. There are a number of better jump-related feats. My recommendation?

    "Tiger-blooded and one of the following: Battle Jump (Unapproachable East, LOVE this feat) OR Leap of the Heavens". If you want a tax, make them also take the Wall-Jumper Skill Trick or something. Skill Focus feats are never a good investment.
    Well, alright, I guess I'll change it to Leap of the Heavens then. (Battle Jump is a good feat, but it's from a campaign-specific sourcebook, and that's not a good way to qualify for a non-specific prestige class)
    [/QUOTE]

    Hit dice are fine, as are skill points. I do not understand why a raging barbarian has Diplomacy though. Handle Animal should be thrown in there, along with Ride and Survival from the Barbarian list.
    It's the warblade's skill list, which is why Diplomacy is there, but yeah I'll toss on Handle Animal, Ride and Survival, along with Hide and Move Silently for the swordsage tigers.

    Full BAB and good Fort I agree with, along with Bad will. I think they should get at least average Reflex, especially with a focus on the agile, dextrous Tiger Claw discipline.
    I don't use average save progressions.

    LOVE this. Very unique, and not something I've seen before.
    Thank you.

    Remove the last line. It's snarky 9/10 initiating other than that, which is fine I guess, though I would have chosen 5th or 10th rather than 4th, as that is an unusual break point.
    Should have seen what I wrote the first time: "Yes, I know that's not how Tome of Battle does its prestige classes. No, I don't care."

    5th isn't a good spot for the initiator level loss, as Devour the Dragon is a very situational ability. Meanwhile Hunting Tiger is a strong feature.

    Powerful and profitable, simple and elegant. Like it.
    Thank you.

    Finally allowing Barbarians/ragers to use Diamond Mind maneuvers. Thank you for this. If nothing else, I would dip every barbarian I have that learns maneuvers just for this ability.
    Yep. No reason a rager should miss out on an entire Discipline of maneuvers just because he's raging, now is there?

    A solid addition. I've never been a huge fan of rend, but this is pretty good.
    Tigers, man. They like to rip people apart with their claws. Or in this case, scimitars.

    Very much like this one. Though I think you should add some other addition in the event he has pounce already (a benefit gained only if he already have pounce, to encourage pouncers to take the class). I'd beware of the size category thing however, as, for example, I've been known to play barbarians whose base size was Large, with a permanent enlarge person (now Huge), wielding Huge weapons. Having a charging player and his weapons both treated as Gargantuan is something to be wary of. I'd say he is treated as one size category larger than his base state. That way, he can't gain a double benefit from enlarge person or the like, even if his weapon isn't scaled likewise.
    Nah, the granted Pounce ability is to encourage barbarians to not take the cheap Spirit Lion Totem variant and get pounce at first level.

    What you suggested is similar to Powerful Build (an effective increase that doesn't stack with an actual Size increase) but my intended counterpart to the ability was the Shifter Savagery feat from Races of Eberron (which gives a shifter who rages an effective +2 size category for damage, as well as the Improved Critical feat)

    Also, you can't permanently enlarge person a creature with a base size category of Large. Humanoids are all Small and Medium.

    Flavorful, but at the same time I have no idea until the first sentence of this ability that you were going to go in that direction. I'd like to see something of that in the overall class fluff at the beginning so this makes a little more sense. Also, it's very situational. So you might want to throw in another 5th level ability (not necessarily a big one, just something).
    It's only as situational as a ranger's Favored Enemy ability. And yeah, I'll toss some more fluff in the beginning about this later. (I'm a bit strapped for time right now)

    I guess I'll give a second ability some thought.

    I like this, but I'm confused about why they have to see him as well as hear him for a sonic effect. That renders the ability useless underground, as well as for any creature who can use darkness or a caster with any of the dozens of conjuration spells that hinder vision. Good addition on the Tiger Claw boost though, by the way.
    You have a good point. I'll change it to just hearing.

    Fantastic. I might make it so that he can switch out any of the non-base TWF feats from that line for other feats though. As is, I would not take them when entering this class since I knew I would get this ability and would always be in a Tiger Claw stance, but that would make my character a lot weaker at lower levels.
    Right, but that's the trade off. You get five really powerful feats (including one epic feat pre-epic) in exchange for earning them. Since a character can't take Greater Two-Weapon Fighting before 12th level without bonus feats anyway, and you get it at ECL 13, you probably wouldn't mind waiting. So that would mean you'd only have gotten Two-Weapon Fighting, and maybe Improved Two-Weapon Fighting if you really thought you were going to be using a lot of full-attacks (not strike maneuvers, because they already grant you multiple attacks in their descriptions).

    Me? I'd get Two-Weapon Fighting at first level and spend the rest of my time on other feats. And I would earn that Dance of the Tiger ability, and starting at level 13 I would rage all over the battlefield like a dervish done right.

    This is nice, but it doesn't scream capstone to me. I would put this at 9th, and make a new capstone, or add something else to this. Let me think for a little while and I'll see if I can come up with anything that might be fitting.

    On the whole, a great take on the Barbarian initiator, and a powerful one at that!
    A +9 untyped bonus to your primary ability score (that stacks with the original +4-+8 bonus) doesn't sound strong enough to be a capstone to you? Especially when it is blending rage and initiating together almost perfectly? Seems like the ultimate theurge ability to me.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    TravelLog's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Should have seen what I wrote the first time: "Yes, I know that's not how Tome of Battle does its prestige classes. No, I don't care." :small tongue:
    Haha.

    5th isn't a good spot for the initiator level loss, as Devour the Dragon is a very situational ability. Meanwhile Hunting Tiger is a strong feature.
    True enough.

    Tigers, man. They like to rip people apart with their claws. Or in this case, scimitars.
    Freaking. Tigers. How do they work?

    What you suggested is similar to Powerful Build (an effective increase that doesn't stack with an actual Size increase) but my intended counterpart to the ability was the Shifter Savagery feat from Races of Eberron (which gives a shifter who rages an effective +2 size category for damage, as well as the Improved Critical feat)
    Ah, that makes a bit more sense now.

    Right, but that's the trade off. You get five really powerful feats (including one epic feat pre-epic) in exchange for earning them. Since a character can't take Greater Two-Weapon Fighting before 12th level without bonus feats anyway, and you get it at ECL 13, you probably wouldn't mind waiting. So that would mean you'd only have gotten Two-Weapon Fighting, and maybe Improved Two-Weapon Fighting if you really thought you were going to be using a lot of full-attacks (not strike maneuvers, because they already grant you multiple attacks in their descriptions).

    Me? I'd get Two-Weapon Fighting at first level and spend the rest of my time on other feats. And I would earn that Dance of the Tiger ability, and starting at level 13 I would rage all over the battlefield like a dervish done right.
    Sound reasoning. No problems then.

    A +9 untyped bonus to your primary ability score (that stacks with the original +4-+8 bonus) doesn't sound strong enough to be a capstone to you? Especially when it is blending rage and initiating together almost perfectly? Seems like the ultimate theurge ability to me.
    I think we're talking about different things here. While the strength of the class feature is capstone appropriate, it doesn't feel like a capstone to me, if that makes sense. My idea of a capstone if something drastically different and new that really changes the character. While this does make him undeniably more powerful, it feels a bit boring, just a boost to his already significant abilities, without providing a new option in combat (sure he gets to give up maneuvers for a strength bonus, but his overall strategy and tactics are the same as before).

    I don't know though, it's just my personal opinion. It's fine as is, but I feel like there is something more to go for here.
    My Extended Homebrewer's Signature


    Gunslinger avatar and banner by Flumphy.

    Old Avatars:
    Spoiler
    Show


    Auron avatar by C-Lam

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post

    I think we're talking about different things here. While the strength of the class feature is capstone appropriate, it doesn't feel like a capstone to me, if that makes sense. My idea of a capstone if something drastically different and new that really changes the character. While this does make him undeniably more powerful, it feels a bit boring, just a boost to his already significant abilities, without providing a new option in combat (sure he gets to give up maneuvers for a strength bonus, but his overall strategy and tactics are the same as before).

    I don't know though, it's just my personal opinion. It's fine as is, but I feel like there is something more to go for here.
    I see. Alright, I'm going to give that some thought then. I just edited and put in some of the fluff I had written, will do the rest when I get back from work. Later!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Finished the fluff and added Crouching Tiger Pouncing Dragon to 5th level.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GuyFawkes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    [b]Crouching Tiger, Pouncing Dragon (Ex)[/i]: A feral sword does not study each discipline as a separate, unique school, but rather how all of them relate to the mighty Tiger Claw discipline. Starting at 5th level, a feral sword ignores all movement restrictions on the stances and maneuvers of the Stone Dragon discipline. He may use Stone Dragon maneuvers when he is not in contact with the ground, and any time he uses a Stone Dragon strike to ignore damage reduction, he may make a Jump check (DC equal to the target's HD + 10) If he succeeds, he leaps into the air and delivers the strike as a crushing blow, dealing additional damage equal to the result of his Jump check. If he fails, the maneuver is wasted and has no effect, and the feral sword does not hit the target with his melee attack.
    Very nice. I like what you did there! Rising Stone Dragon of Death!

    Just a thought, it might be thematic fluff wise to describe this as the dominance of the tiger over the dragon, how the discipline can use his enemy's strengths and use it against them, or something like that. But that's just me.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Doc Roc's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    It's.... pretty easy to jack your jump check really high...
    Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
    DocRoc: to?
    Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    I really don't think a class with full maneuver progression needs so many powerful abilities.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  16. - Top - End - #16
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I really don't think a class with full maneuver progression needs so many powerful abilities.
    It's just 9/10, but I don't think it's that big a deal. Maneuvers aren't like spells. The majority of them deal damage, damage, and more damage. They're interesting, but they're pretty singular. And you only gain around 20 with any given class. Even Time Stands Still is just offense. The only maneuvers I can think of that don't have to deal with damage are the Shadow Hand run-and-hide ones. Maneuvers may be strong, but that's all they are.

    It's.... pretty easy to jack your jump check really high...
    True. It's also pretty easy to jack your Concentration check really high, that didn't stop anyone from printing Greater Insightful Strike (when you attack, make a Concentration check. You deal twice that amount as your damage, instead of your normal damage)

    The trade-off here is you must be using a Stone Dragon strike, and it has to ignore a character's damage reduction, which means it's one of the ones that just ignores DR and deals a handful of d6 extra damage. This means you're NOT using a Tiger Claw strike maneuver, which lets you attack with both weapons. And you can only have so many Stone Dragon maneuvers like that readied. (A level 18 warblade, the maximum you could get, would have 6 total. A level 18 swordsage can have 11, but he has to ready them all from the 6 schools he has access to)

    Yes, you would be able to deal a lot of damage with one of these, but you could do just as much damage by picking up Greater Insightful Strike (which warblades and swordsages have access to) with no chance of failure.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-11-13 at 02:04 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Doc Roc's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    It's just 9/10, but I don't think it's that big a deal. Maneuvers aren't like spells. The majority of them deal damage, damage, and more damage. They're interesting, but they're pretty singular. And you only gain around 20 with any given class. Even Time Stands Still is just offense. The only maneuvers I can think of that don't have to deal with damage are the Shadow Hand run-and-hide ones. Maneuvers may be strong, but that's all they are.
    White. Raven. Tactics.
    Ironheart Surge.
    Last edited by Doc Roc; 2011-11-13 at 02:03 PM.
    Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
    DocRoc: to?
    Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    White. Raven. Tactics.
    Ironheart Surge.
    That's two. Neither of them are available to a swordsage. An 18th level warblade can only have 6 maneuvers readied. And they're still only for combat.

    Edit: I think you missed my point. Spell progression isn't equal to maneuver progression because spells aren't equal to maneuvers. You can't use a maneuver to auto succeed a skill check, to fly, to heal (in this class), to dominate, to summon, to transform, to boost your stats...none of that. Maneuvers are great, but they're not unbalancing, and you don't get enough of them to justify limiting class features anyway.

    Edit 2: A warblade 18 has 12 maneuvers known, and a swordsage 18 has 23.

    Edit 3: Still, Seerow is right. My abilities are pretty powerful, so I dropped another IL at 8th, which means you can get 9th level maneuvers, but only one, and only at level 20. I think that's pretty fair.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-11-13 at 02:20 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    TravelLog's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    The Feral Sword

    The students of the Sublime Way often act as well-mannered, disciplined warriors. But there exists a bardic legend of an old school, deep in the forest, where wild savages practice the ways of the Sublime, and combine them with their bloodthirsty techniques to create a fighting style that is truly ferocious.

    The story began when a small band of crusaders was attacked while protecting a merchant van that was traveling through the forest on its normal trade route. A wrong turn led the caravan into a deep, unexplored part of the jungle, with a small road that looked well-maintained. The crusaders that survived reported hearing a strange sound, "like a hundred animals roaring in unison", before a group of scantily clad individuals leaped from the trees and pounced on the warriors.

    Clashes of steel and fire were everywhere, and as a few of the savages disappeared into thin air, while others stood their ground and smashed through the crusader's defenses like they were wielding swords made of diamond, it became clear to the divine band that these were followers of the Sublime Way. But where was their respect? Their discipline? Their honorable attitude?

    "It was gone," one of them said, a look of awe on his face. "I looked into my opponent's eyes and I did not see malice, nor anger, nor hatred...I saw...hunger. And not hunger for battle or desire to take something from me...for a moment there I was afraid that if I fell he would throw down his weapons and actually bite into my flesh...and eat me alive!"

    A large group of crusaders marched immediately in the forest to deal with the threat. One of them promised a weeping widow as he left, "Don't worry. We won't come back without his body."

    He kept that promise. Not one of them ever returned.

    They say that the forest holds a group of animals who somehow learned to move like humans, or perhaps humans who have only the instincts of an animal. Regardless of how the legend started, the feral swords, as they have since been called, rule over their forest, because no one dared ever set foot in there again.
    Woot. Much love for the fluff.

    "He kept that promise. Not one of them ever returned." Great line.
    My Extended Homebrewer's Signature


    Gunslinger avatar and banner by Flumphy.

    Old Avatars:
    Spoiler
    Show


    Auron avatar by C-Lam

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DeAnno's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    About Claws of Fury: One thing to remember is that there aren't many Tiger Claw strikes that attack with two weapons. Dancing Mongoose and Raging Mongoose are both boosts, and a lot of the maneuvers are just bonus damage and bonus to hit and jump checks. In fact, iirc the only Strike that works like that is Rabid Wolf Strike. I'm not sure how you would change this, but it should probably see a little more use than it does now.

    About Dance of the Tiger: While people may have a lot of feats they want, most people in the class will at least have basic TWF already. Remember if they want to use Claws of Fury, they need two weapons to use those strikes, so probably want to generally fight with them anyway. I'm not too sure how to handle this, but you don't want to create an incentive for a character to slog through many levels of being gimped for an advantage later. You might have basic TWF as an entry prerequisite, or specifically allow for retraining of those feats at that level.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Where is Your Rage Mage Now? (3.5 PrC, PEACH Please)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnno View Post
    About Claws of Fury: One thing to remember is that there aren't many Tiger Claw strikes that attack with two weapons. Dancing Mongoose and Raging Mongoose are both boosts, and a lot of the maneuvers are just bonus damage and bonus to hit and jump checks. In fact, iirc the only Strike that works like that is Rabid Wolf Strike. I'm not sure how you would change this, but it should probably see a little more use than it does now.
    Okay. I'll change it to simply "whenever he hits with both weapons", thanks.

    About Dance of the Tiger: While people may have a lot of feats they want, most people in the class will at least have basic TWF already. Remember if they want to use Claws of Fury, they need two weapons to use those strikes, so probably want to generally fight with them anyway. I'm not too sure how to handle this, but you don't want to create an incentive for a character to slog through many levels of being gimped for an advantage later. You might have basic TWF as an entry prerequisite, or specifically allow for retraining of those feats at that level.
    Retraining encourages the player to dump the feats he actually has, which locks him into using Tiger Claw stances, and if he wants to use any other stance (even Stone Dragon, since I gave him the ability to move while in a Stone Dragon stance) he loses Two-Weapon Fighting. That's why I gave no ability to retrain.

    Retraining feats already exists in the Player's Handbook II. If a character really wants to retrain his TWF feat and go Tiger Claw stance for the rest of the career, there are ways he can do that. (If PHB II retraining is not allowed there is psychic reformation)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •