Wait! What about thog?

[King of Nowhere]

In strip 813, Tarquin said they did not know if thog was alive, until they checked. Since thog is high level, and he can kill some mook guards and escape even when unarmed and low on hp, it would make sense that Tarquin (opr at least someone high level) was there. Plus, I really got the impresion that they were going to check on thog. And tarquin should know not to wait on finding out. Yet now we skip to a later scene, and thog's fate remains uncertain. Did they really go away without looking? Was the scene cut? Is rich stretching the issue to keep us guessing (if so, Tarquin not checking under the rabble is straining my suspension of disbelief, and the scene being cut would just be unfair)?

[NerfTW]

Thog is heavily wounded. And on top of that, we've already seen his willingness to submit to the arena battles. Since Tarquin doesn't know that the Linear Guild is in the area yet, he has no reason to believe Thog would act any differently than every other time he's been unshackled and given a weapon. In fact, Thog doesn't even know, since Nale apparently kept most of the plan from him to avoid a leak.

Also, this isn't that much later. Keep in mind Elan was able to run to the palace in a matter of minutes. The dinosaur barge is just for show, not distance. We might very well see Nale or Sabine picking up Thog for round 2 in the next strip.

[Jay R]

Is rich stretching the issue to keep us guessing (if so, Tarquin not checking under the rabble is straining my suspension of disbelief, and the scene being cut would just be unfair)?

It is not unfair for an author to reveal information only at the time that is best for the narrative. Thog's return, if any, will be better if it is a surprise.

[Bulldog Psion]

I sincerely doubt that Tarquin gives a damn about a squashed, dying, has-been half-orc gladiator whom he'll be glad to see dead anyway. Just tell the guards to coup-de-grace him and be done with it.

[factotum]

Thog was somehow captured in the first place, don't forget--I doubt Tarquin had to fetch him personally after he was caught urinating in the street!

[GSFB]

even a healthy high level raging barbarian is no match for 30 guards with heavy crossbows when he has no armor or magic items. nor is he a match for a low level wizard with a charm spell.

[Kareasint]

The rubble has to be removed to determine Thog's fate. Some of the larger pieces could require equipment to lift it or break it up into smaller pieces. It simply could take a while to remove the rubble.

Tarquin is more of a big picture kind of guy. He lets the guards and minions handle the details.

[faustin]

Thog is probably keeping Z company in jail. Remember, as a major character, he cannot die off-panel.

[irenicObserver]

I feel like this is less legitimate concern and more someone complaining about the pacing of the story because it's not going the way they want.

Why does it seem like people like to throw out negative literary criticisms whenever they have a problem? It sounds like a bad argument.

[Seerow]

even a healthy high level raging barbarian is no match for 30 guards with heavy crossbows when he has no armor or magic items. nor is he a match for a low level wizard with a charm spell.

Actually I'd give him pretty good odds. Low level guards are probably looking at a 50% shot at best of hitting even a raging barbarian. Possibly less. A heavy Crossbow bolt has a ~40% chance of doing no damage at all to him thanks to DR. We're looking at 30 attacks per round in total dealing less damage to him than he'd normally take from a hit from something he expects to fight. If he has a decent dex, or other inherent armor increase, that drops dramatically very quickly.

And no low level wizard's charm spell is going to hit thog. We're looking at +5 base save, +3 on Will Saves with an extra +4 against enchantments, even assuming he doesn't have Steadfast Determination to take advantage of his really high con, and has a low Wisdom, he has a +12 vs enchantment effects. He'll pass vs a low level Wizard on a 2 or 3.

[BlackestOfMages]

Thog is probably keeping Z company in jail. Remember, as a major character, he cannot die off-panel.

but if he died, it wasn't off-pannel. if he died, it was most likely having a building coming down on him*

though, as pointed out, even a 20th level barbarian, if strip naked, beat in a fight, and had a building collapse on them would probably be easy pickings for 30 guards with heavy crossbows.

edit: numbers. he has no armour, and I doubt he has all that high dex, so let's say AC 10 (-2 for rage, + 2 for dex, being generous). average human warrior would have +1 to hit, normal NPC array would not give another, so hiting 11/20 times, or 55% chance. they don't need to move all the rocks before they start shooting him (in fact, doing so would be stupid) so he'd likely have some form of concealment from the first few volleys. If the rocks are in place, he'd be taking crushing damage each round for having their weight bearing down on him as well, even if the crossbows do nothing.

* I know DnD falling object rules would most lilely leave him alive if a planet fell on him, but since this is a story not a campaig, that's most likely moot...

...or the source of a joke if he comes back.

[Lord Bingo]

Thog's dead, baby. Thog's dead...

[Leecros]

Thog is probably keeping Z company in jail. Remember, as a major character, he cannot die off-panel.

IIRC i remember people making the same argument during Erfworld book 1, yet sure enough:

(Erfworld Spoilers)

Spoiler

Show

Ansom dies off-panel. In the one strip he's shown being tackled off his rug and in the next strip he's dead.

It's a bit unorthodox to kill major characters out of sight, granted, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Being off-panel does not make a character invincible in any sense of the word if the writer wants him dead. On top of that, to be honest, i wouldn't rate Thog as a major character. He's a fairly substantial minor character, but only due to the number of appearances and his popularity amonst the readers(neither of which are criteria that on their own substantiate a 'major' character). Really, his only purpose in the comic is to be one of Nale's mooks(for lack of a better word). He hasn't had any other bearing on the comic. Nale could have found someone else and it probably wouldn't have altered the comic too much.

[Cranica]

Actually I'd give him pretty good odds. Low level guards are probably looking at a 50% shot at best of hitting even a raging barbarian. Possibly less. A heavy Crossbow bolt has a ~40% chance of doing no damage at all to him thanks to DR. We're looking at 30 attacks per round in total dealing less damage to him than he'd normally take from a hit from something he expects to fight. If he has a decent dex, or other inherent armor increase, that drops dramatically very quickly.

Keep in mind that Thog is probably very, very low on hp if he's not into the negatives. I did the math on the damage back in the thread for the comic where the roof fell on him, based on what we know he's at <40 hp even being generous with his rolls. Using your numbers, that's 30 shots with a 20% chance of damaging per shot = 6 damaging shots on average per round, even if they only did 1 damage he'd be down in 8 rounds. He'd also be very hard-pressed to stop one of 30 guards from getting away to call for help.

[ThePhantasm]

I hope he's dead.

[Klear]

(Erfworld Spoilers)

Spoiler

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Ansom dies off-panel. In the one strip he's shown being tackled off his rug and in the next strip he's dead.

Spoiler

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...but he gets uncroaked 12 pages after that. It's not like it's a permanent death.

BTW, I think I've finally though of a crazy theory this forum seems to be famous for - maybe Thog is already out of the rubble and captured. Tarquin only doesn't want that to become public knowledge. The way he's trying to recruit Roy while pretending he is dead, maybe he wants to use Thog for something as well, which Roy (and us) doesn't need to know.

It would have been simpler to just tell Roy that Thog is dead, but such an off-panel death would be a giveaway for us readers.

Maybe I'm just overthinking this, but at least I finally got the chance to put forth some kind of improbable theory of my own =)

[Studoku]

The problem here is that freeing Thog from the rubble might injure or kill him. It is impossible to observe his state without changing it.

He is now Schroedinger's Thog.

[Leecros]

Spoiler

Show

...but he gets uncroaked 12 pages after that. It's not like it's a permanent death.

That is...arguable.


Besides, he still died off-panel. Regardless of how permanent of a death that was.

[Gift Jeraff]

I think Thog is having a good time in the free ball pit Talky-Man just gave him.

[Dr.Epic]

They imprisoned Thog once so I'm sure they can do it again.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

They imprisoned Thog once so I'm sure they can do it again.

I don’t think they’d bother. Tarquin wants Thog dead. The only thing keeping him alive was the arena PR. He now has the perfect cover to make sure Thog gets dead with plenty of plausible deniability as to the cause.

[veti]

I hope he's dead.

If Thog were dead, we would have seen him, with X in his eyes, being pulled out of the rubble. It would only have taken one frame. Heck, it could have happened in the background while Roy and Tarquin were talking.

There's only one conceivable reason why we shouldn't have seen it, and that's because it's not happening. Thog lives.

[King of Nowhere]

I think I'm misunderstood. I really have no qualms about thog's fate being uncertain, I'm surely not complaining about that, and it wasn't the point I intended to discuss. I'm saying that the passage between 813, with that "we won't know until we dig him out", and 814, where thog seems forgotten, seems a bit off. I think all the previous strips pointed to a moment when the characters went to check the rubbles.
If the point was keeping the mistery, a "that's too much stuff here, we'll have to bring some machinery, won't know until later" would have been perfetly appropriate, but the way the fate of thog slipped out of anyone's concern don't feel rigth to me.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not complaining about the story. Not at all. I'm the first to say that oots is awesome in every single story arc. You don't need to rally to defend the comic.

[Dr.Epic]

I don’t think they’d bother. Tarquin wants Thog dead. The only thing keeping him alive was the arena PR. He now has the perfect cover to make sure Thog gets dead with plenty of plausible deniability as to the cause.

1. They still wouldn't have to worry about Thog escaping then.

2. Tarquin could have rigged Thog's fights in the past so he'd lose: make sure Thog was at low HP, given the opponent far superior weapons, hit Thog up with status penalties.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I'm saying that the passage between 813, with that "we won't know until we dig him out", and 814, where thog seems forgotten, seems a bit off. I think all the previous strips pointed to a moment when the characters went to check the rubbles.
If the point was keeping the mistery, a "that's too much stuff here, we'll have to bring some machinery, won't know until later" would have been perfetly appropriate, but the way the fate of thog slipped out of anyone's concern don't feel rigth to me.

I’m gonna side with the earlier suggestion that there was too much rubble, and it could take a day or so to dig him out. Though the right spellcaster could speed that up, Tarquin may not wish to bother.

2. Tarquin could have rigged Thog's fights in the past so he'd lose: make sure Thog was at low HP, given the opponent far superior weapons, hit Thog up with status penalties.

Who’s to say he didn’t make an attempt at rigging the fight. Thog was just that unstoppable. Tarquin would be restrained in such efforts, as well, because obviously stacking the deck against Thog could lead to a PR backlash when the crowd favorite is so poorly treated. Might even be worse than if he had slit Thog’s throat.

[Dr.Epic]

Who’s to say he didn’t make an attempt at rigging the fight. Thog was just that unstoppable. Tarquin would be restrained in such efforts, as well, because obviously stacking the deck against Thog could lead to a PR backlash when the crowd favorite is so poorly treated. Might even be worse than if he had slit Thog’s throat.

I think someone as clever as Tarquin - who's been keeping the various nations at war and creating new ones when they topple and hasn't been caught yet - could manage to kill one mid-to-high-level barbarian in a rigged fight and make it look like it was legit.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I think someone as clever as Tarquin - who's been keeping the various nations at war and creating new ones when they topple and hasn't been caught yet - could manage to kill one mid-to-high-level barbarian in a rigged fight and make it look like it was legit.

If getting rid of Thog was a sufficient priority to put up the kind of effort that would entail, sure. After the first few attempts failed, he simply wasn’t willing to put forth any more time or money to the thing.

[Jay R]

There's only one conceivable reason why we shouldn't have seen it, and that's because it's not happening.

Simply untrue. There are lots of conceivable reasons. For instance:
1. The Giant has a really funny strip planned based on digging him out, that requires the entire Order of the Stick to be together to make the punch line work.
2. There's a plot element coming that requires Thog's life or death to be unknown.
3. The big reveal will be connected to the next episode with Nale, in which he takes attempts to take disproportionate revenge on Roy.
4. There was no particular reason to tell that fact right now, and the Giant was telling the actual story, instead.
5. There's going to be a big revolt of all the Thog fans, sparked by the moment in which his body is uncovered.
6. There's a weird connection between Nale and Girard, which requires Thog to be resurrected at a certain time.

In short, without knowing all the remaining plot, there's no way to decide that there is "only one conceivable reason" for any single story-telling decision.

[Geordnet]

5. There's going to be a big revolt of all the Thog fans, sparked by the moment in which his body is uncovered.

You know, this could be reason enough to delay: if we have to wait a bit to find out the truth, then it'll soften the blow as die-hard Thog fans will have had time to steel themselves for it.


Really though, it's only been six strips since we last saw thog; I think we can wait a few more before concluding he's been "forgotten". Have a bit more faith in Rich than that.

[FujinAkari]

Thog's dead. Tarquin finishing him off isn't relevant to the OOTS storyline, so it isn't being shown.

To me, its just like back in the day everyone was waiting to see Miko judged, and Rich never showed it. It simply would serve no purpose to the story Rich is telling, he has established that Thog is helpless and at the mercy of someone who actively wants him dead, so actually using up a strip to show Thog getting finished off won't advance the story Rich wants to tell.