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  1. - Top - End - #421
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    TravelLog's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Charred Charmer should have 3.5 for Power rather than 4.

    3+.5+.5-.5=3.5
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  2. - Top - End - #422
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    This is not a correction from the chairman, but a request for a clarification, Zipding. Could you expand on your commentary about Practiced Caster and how its use merits a deduction, please? Thanks.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226049
    May be a reference to what is discussed in this thread. Very few people agreed with SirFredgar but it wasn't resolved with everyone agreeing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  3. - Top - End - #423
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Sorry, gang, but I won't be able to judge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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  4. - Top - End - #424
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Looks like we are just waiting on Honeko then.
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  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Wow. Zipding really hates the diplomacy skill and the Practiced Spellcaster feat.

    Now it was fairly applied across the builds, so I have no complaints, but I am curious. If you have a special ingredient that specializes in controlling things and gives bonuses to diplomacy, then why apply a large penalty for being a "diplomancer"?
    Last edited by gbprime; 2011-12-28 at 08:43 PM.
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    Oh, and DFTBA.

  6. - Top - End - #426
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by gbprime View Post
    Wow. Zipping really hates the diplomacy skill and the Practiced Spellcaster feat.

    Now it was fairly applied across the builds, so I have no complaints, but I am curious. If you have a special ingredient that specializes in controlling things and gives bonuses to diplomacy, then why apply a large penalty for being a "diplomancer"?
    I am inclined to agree.
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  7. - Top - End - #427
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by gbprime View Post
    Wow. Zipding really hates the diplomacy skill and the Practiced Spellcaster feat.

    Now it was fairly applied across the builds, so I have no complaints, but I am curious. If you have a special ingredient that specializes in controlling things and gives bonuses to diplomacy, then why apply a large penalty for being a "diplomancer"?
    Diplomancers break the diplomacy ruling system as written in the 3.5 PHB. It is one of the most hated builds along with Cleric/Druidzilla and Batman Wizard.

    Diplomancers are very powerful with the 3.5 written system. But that also means that the DM will be very frustrated with the character stopping every encounter because they can physically talk down their opponents.
    Last edited by Zipding; 2011-12-28 at 10:28 PM.
    Best comment I've heard in a D&D game:

    Our bard after succeeding in 2 4e grapple checks to slam a female opponent who kind of looks like Ayn Rand:

    "I JUST POWERBOMBED AYN RAND!"

  8. - Top - End - #428
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Zipding View Post
    Diplomancers are very powerful with the 3.5 written system. But that also means that the DM will be very frustrated with the character stopping every encounter because they can physically talk down their opponents.
    Granted, but this special ingredient also gives said character charm monster and dominate abilities. Is being a diplomancer worth such a penalty in this circumstance?

    You're kind of giving them a small bonus for using the diplomacy skill aspect of the PrC and then giving them a large penalty for the exact same thing. Someone can really net more points from you by ignoring the skills aspect of the special ingredient completely!
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    Oh, and DFTBA.

  9. - Top - End - #429
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    I can empathize with the criticism of diplomancers, although many of the builds in this contest did it with a good amount of style. It is frustrating to deal with no save effects such as diplomacy. What I found interesting was how you gave bonuses and penalties for the use and non use of Mindsight. I'm honestly a little tired of the Mindbender / Mindsight combo. It is overdone, and there are so many better ways to use Mindsight.

    100 feet Mindsight is nice, but why settle for that when you can get a range of miles instead.

    Also I've never actually had a problem playing a full on batman wizard in any game. Zillas and Mailmen people have problems with, but I think its more about stealing the spotlight then actual power levels.
    Last edited by The Gilded Duke; 2011-12-29 at 01:45 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #430
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gilded Duke View Post
    100 feet Mindsight is nice, but why settle for that when you can get a range of miles instead.
    Ya one of my favorite builds from IC had 100 miles for his mindsight.

    While I don't really agree with Zip's reasoning of penalties for PC or diplomacy I think it is traditional in IC to not debate over judge rulings outside of PMs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  11. - Top - End - #431
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Ya one of my favorite builds from IC had 100 miles for his mindsight.

    While I don't really agree with Zip's reasoning of penalties for PC or diplomacy I think it is traditional in IC to not debate over judge rulings outside of PMs.
    True. It can get messy fast. I've removed my earlier post.

  12. - Top - End - #432
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Zipding View Post
    For my judging, all of the builds will start at 3.0, and the scores will adjust from there.

    The Ethereal Enslaver of Evil

    Power: 2.5
    You take Mindsight, which is a must for telepathy. (+0.5)
    You severely lack any sort of damage output, even after taking all the levels in Mindbender. (-0.5)
    I'm pretty sure you made a mistake here, 3+0.5-0.5 = 3 not 2.5 Could you fix it please.

  13. - Top - End - #433
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Ya one of my favorite builds from IC had 100 miles for his mindsight.

    While I don't really agree with Zip's reasoning of penalties for PC or diplomacy I think it is traditional in IC to not debate over judge rulings outside of PMs.
    Tradition has been quite the opposite. It is only a product of more recent rounds to cut down the dispute process almost entirely.

    I'm glad someone out there was as impressed with Wruk as I was. Power, style, and obscurity--that was a perfect storm!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  14. - Top - End - #434
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gilded Duke View Post
    I'm honestly a little tired of the Mindbender / Mindsight combo. It is overdone, and there are so many better ways to use Mindsight.
    Ah, but the synergy of Mindbender/Mindsight is what causes it to be such a dip class (And as level 1 advances casting, if you don't have another source of telepathy as a caster you might as well).

    Realistically, in the context of this competition, I can't see how you wouldn't take it, especially as if memory serves for last rounds ShadowDancer a number of people were penalised for not having the Darkstalker feat to use in conjunction with the Hide In Plain Sight ability.
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  15. - Top - End - #435
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    I'm glad someone out there was as impressed with Wruk as I was. Power, style, and obscurity--that was a perfect storm!
    Thank and he was an actual Gnome, unusual for the gnome only PrC. Somehow.

    Also I think the debate has been cut down since the perfect storm that was Green Star Adept. Which was about 7 or 8 if memory isn't terrible. Just slowly dwindled away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  16. - Top - End - #436
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Thank and he was an actual Gnome, unusual for the gnome only PrC. Somehow.

    Also I think the debate has been cut down since the perfect storm that was Green Star Adept. Which was about 7 or 8 if memory isn't terrible. Just slowly dwindled away.
    Private_Prinny cut out the debate in his most recent tour as Chairman in an effort to speed up the time between contests; the process before that was to mail disputes to the Chairman for review and reveal as s/he saw fit. Mailing concerns about scores to the Chairman started as a result of the GSA debacle, which I do not wish to ever see repeated.

    The open discussion about ZipDing's scoring STOPS NOW. If, by my query as Chairman about one of his deductions, I opened the floodgates for such discussion, I apologize for creating the impression that such discussion was welcome.
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  17. - Top - End - #437
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by cd4 View Post
    I'm pretty sure you made a mistake here, 3+0.5-0.5 = 3 not 2.5 Could you fix it please.
    Fixed. I must have miscounted somehow.

    Due to the chairman's request, I have adjusted my scoring for all who used Practiced Spellcaster.
    Last edited by Zipding; 2011-12-29 at 04:52 PM.
    Best comment I've heard in a D&D game:

    Our bard after succeeding in 2 4e grapple checks to slam a female opponent who kind of looks like Ayn Rand:

    "I JUST POWERBOMBED AYN RAND!"

  18. - Top - End - #438
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Just about 18 hours left for our judge, I hope we get at least one more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  19. - Top - End - #439
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Just about 18 hours left for our judge, I hope we get at least one more.
    Surely there's an unwritten rule that saying that sort of thing means it's not going to happen!

    I kid, I kid, More judging is always good

    Anything but the Reaping Mauler for the next IC. Anything but that.

    I would be interested to see Mortal Hunter done, though really I'm just pondering that out of curiosity for the wacky races that would appear...
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  20. - Top - End - #440
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Mortal hunter could be interesting, although I am still hoping for Dragon Disciple.
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  21. - Top - End - #441
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    I would love to see master of chains, which Thurbane brought up in another thread. Although it would probably be low in number of chefs due to the source being a 3.0 book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  22. - Top - End - #442
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    I would love to see master of chains, which Thurbane brought up in another thread. Although it would probably be low in number of chefs due to the source being a 3.0 book.
    I do have access to that book. Except with that PrC, we would probably be seeing a lot of machine trippers.
    Best comment I've heard in a D&D game:

    Our bard after succeeding in 2 4e grapple checks to slam a female opponent who kind of looks like Ayn Rand:

    "I JUST POWERBOMBED AYN RAND!"

  23. - Top - End - #443
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Mr. Ponies must be frightfully busy this week for his beloved tables to go without an update for so long.

    Not much longer now, gang.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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  24. - Top - End - #444
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Garwain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Mr. Ponies must be frightfully busy this week for his beloved tables to go without an update for so long.
    I believe that the Charred Charmer is in the lead, but only with half a point. A third judge could be decisive!
    My personal folder is a graveyard of ideas, stuck in their dream phase.
    The "DM won't kill us" attitude is a bubble that sometimes needs to be bursted.
    There's an armor variant rule in UA that will drastically increase character survivability without completely bubble-wrapping them in plot invulnerability
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  25. - Top - End - #445
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    And now, it's time for the reveal! Everyone deserves much praise for their entries, and for their patience through the holiday delays.

    1st place: Charred Charmer (by Garwain): (17.0 + 15.5)/2 = 16.25


    2nd place: Shelob (by Gotterdammerung): (17.0 + 15.0)/2 = 16.0

    3rd place (tied): Anjelica (by Piggy Knowles): (17.5 + 12.5)/2 = 15.0

    3rd Place (tied): Lydia (by Feytalist): (15.0 + 15.0)/2 = 15.0

    Frater Omnia (by Piggy Knowles): (16.0 + 13.0)/2 = 14.5 - Honorable Mention

    Enslaver of Evil (by DemonRoach): (16.0 + 12.0)/2 = 14.0

    Monty Took (by Venger): (15.0 + 11.5)/2 = 13.25

    Sir Daenmoor (by Grey McBannert): (15.0 + 11.5)/2 = 13.25

    Senator Graildark (by gbprime): (14.0 + 11.5)/2 = 12.75

    Jongler (by DemonRoach): (7.5 + 13.5)/2 = 10.5

    Lilly Bleak (by TheGeckoKing): (10.0 + 9.5)/2 = 9.75

    Maccles (by nedz): (9.0 + 8.5)/2 = 8.75

    Artis (by Tyndmyr): (6.0 + 8.5)/2 = 7.25
    Watch for Iron Chef XXVIII, coming soon to a thread near you!
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2011-12-30 at 07:13 PM.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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  26. - Top - End - #446
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Well cool beans, I took 2nd place in my first Iron Chef XD.

    It was a fun experience and I am happy with 2nd place. I made a stupid mistake when I overlooked that mindbender pets have to be large or smaller. The build still works with large bugs it just would of been more fun with colossals.

    I was real surprised I scored so low in originality. I thought for sure a bug queen would stand alone in the originality department and I have never heard of anyone intentionally putting an aberrant dragonmark on there character sheet on purpose, much less 4 aberrant feats. I figured it would be one of those
    " I never would of thought of that" responses from the judges.

    But at the same time the judges were very gracious, because the presented build technically didn't work due to the large/collossal mistake. They could of gutted me in elegance for submitting a build with a snag. But they didn't.


    Overall, It was a great experience and I will definitely play again. Hopefully next time I won't have any brain farts.

  27. - Top - End - #447
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung View Post
    Well cool beans, I took 2nd place in my first Iron Chef XD.
    Good work! I wasn't a judge, but you were actually my favorite. Mostly because I thought Dragonfire Adept was a clever answer to the question of "what class can take 10 levels of Mindbender without totally nerfing itself?" and "control Vermin" was a clever answer to "what can a Mindbender do that other full casters can't do?"

    As for Originality, maybe you could give your entries a name that isn't a Tolkien ripoff?
    You can call me Draz.
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    I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.

  28. - Top - End - #448
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    What a close call! And I'm happy to take the win with my first entry ever!
    Curiously enough, also second place is taken by a first time contestant. What would that mean?


    On the other hand, I must admit that I'm not entirely pleased with my build. After seeing the other builds, I realised that I made a crucial error. I read the Mindbender entry as caster level 5, instead of spellcaster level 5. Meaning that I could have entered earlier and finish the fatespinner PrC which would make the build a lot less feat hungry.
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    I would have dropped master specialist. The capstone (negate a +2 bonus on will saves when threatened) dwarves with the capstone of fatespinner (-10 on saves, no save). The build would be something like:
    enchanter 5/mindbender 2/fatespinner 5/complete mindbender and something to top it off.

    That would open space for at least a lot more feats to include... hmm.. mindsight?

    I loved participating, and I'm looking forward to the next!
    My personal folder is a graveyard of ideas, stuck in their dream phase.
    The "DM won't kill us" attitude is a bubble that sometimes needs to be bursted.
    There's an armor variant rule in UA that will drastically increase character survivability without completely bubble-wrapping them in plot invulnerability
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  29. - Top - End - #449
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Mr. Ponies must be frightfully busy this week for his beloved tables to go without an update for so long.

    Not much longer now, gang.
    You don't know the half of it, friend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  30. - Top - End - #450
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    Good work! I wasn't a judge, but you were actually my favorite. Mostly because I thought Dragonfire Adept was a clever answer to the question of "what class can take 10 levels of Mindbender without totally nerfing itself?" and "control Vermin" was a clever answer to "what can a Mindbender do that other full casters can't do?"
    Thanks =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    As for Originality, maybe you could give your entries a name that isn't a Tolkien ripoff?
    I meant it more as a tribute, not a rip-off. I didn't think the names would count towards originality since the competition is about the build. I am glad someone noticed the reference though.

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