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    Default Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Energy Volley
    Evocation [Fire] [Cold] [Acid] [Electricity]
    Level Sorc/Wiz 8, Warmage 8
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Duration: Instantaneous, See Text
    Range: Medium
    Target: Up to four creatures
    Saving Throw: See Text
    SR: Yes

    As you complete your spell, you raise your hand above your head, and four brightly colored orbs spring into existence. The orbs swirl around each other for a moment, before scattering, flying in different directions to strike down all your foes at once

    When you cast this spell, you create an orb of fire, orb of cold, orb of electricity, and orb of acid. Each of these functions exactly as the spell, except their save DC is based on this spell's DC, they are of the evocation school and allow SR, they cannot penetrate an anti-magic field, and they all have a damage cap of 20d6 instead of 15d6.

    You make a ranged touch attack at up to four different enemies. You may choose which orb affects which enemy, or send multiple orbs at a single or two or three targets. (Four orbs at one, or two orbs at two, or three orbs at one and one orb at the other, etc)

    If you choose to hold an orb(s) back, they remain floating over your head for up to one round per four caster levels (max 5 rounds at 20th CL). As a standard action, you may fire a single orb at a target within range.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-04 at 12:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Two things I find rather strange:
    • Why can't you target all four spheres at the same creature? Balance? At 20th level, that's an average of only 240 damage, and things will almost certainly resist or be immune to one or more of those energy types.
    • Why can't it be emulated by Shades?

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Two things I find rather strange:
    • Why can't you target all four spheres at the same creature? Balance? At 20th level, that's an average of only 240 damage, and things will almost certainly resist or be immune to one or more of those energy types.
    • No, it's fluff. When I see someone casting this spell, I see the orbs spinning above and firing in all different directions, like the caster can only aim them slightly, he can't fully control them, and the force of the elements repels them in different directions. Like the spell is casting itself, not the caster.

      Edit: Also, when we look at balance, we're looking at 4 different save-or-sucks, involving all 3 saves, and Energy Substitution is a +0 metamagic feat that turns all four orbs into one type of damage.

    • Why can't it be emulated by Shades?
  4. Because I hate the shadow line, and I refuse to have it be part of my homebrewing balance process.
Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-01 at 03:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Because I hate the shadow line, and I refuse to have it be part of my homebrewing balance process.
    Best reasoning ever (also, fully agreed; I expunge the line in my games, on the basis of "man, **** shades").

    EDIT: Spell seems fine. I don't see any real issue at a glance. Not sure I'd ever use it personally (mostly because meta'd orbs still probably outrun this thing without some serious work and because maw of chaos is my go-to at these levels).
    Last edited by arguskos; 2011-12-01 at 04:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Best reasoning ever (also, fully agreed; I expunge the line in my games, on the basis of "man, **** shades").

    EDIT: Spell seems fine. I don't see any real issue at a glance. Not sure I'd ever use it personally (mostly because meta'd orbs still probably outrun this thing without some serious work and because maw of chaos is my go-to at these levels).
    Meta'd orbs would still outrun this thing, but that's only if you're optimizing blasting. This is a higher level alternative for save-or-dies for the casual caster, or the summoner/crowd control/enchanter/diviner/abjurer/someone else who isn't blasting.

    You know, a spell for someone who didn't waste all their feats on metamagic, but still wants to deal damage.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    You definitely sucked me in with the title.

    I'd prefer not to have a thematic restriction that prohibits the orbs from all flying at one dude, 'cause it makes the spell subpar against BBEG fights (you don't want to waste the orbs on weak minions, but it takes 4 turns to use the spell to its fullest, when you could instead be casting temporal stasis four times... or something).

    Also, making the spell unreplicatable by shades kinda puts me off. Shades is obnoxious regardless of this spell, and people who raise the complaint that this is broken because of shades have no validity. I'd just cut that text and let people who get excited about shadow magic have their stiffie. Of course, that's just me, so I can just cut it out when I print out the spell and stuff it in my PHB.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    You definitely sucked me in with the title.
    I tend to do that. Other titles of my homebrew include:
    Succumb to the Voices in Your Head!
    You Shall Fear The Wrath of God!
    This is the Power of Hell!
    Don't Worry Bro, I'll Back You Up

    I'd prefer not to have a thematic restriction that prohibits the orbs from all flying at one dude, 'cause it makes the spell subpar against BBEG fights (you don't want to waste the orbs on weak minions, but it takes 4 turns to use the spell to its fullest, when you could instead be casting temporal stasis four times... or something).

    Also, making the spell unreplicatable by shades kinda puts me off. Shades is obnoxious regardless of this spell, and people who raise the complaint that this is broken because of shades have no validity. I'd just cut that text and let people who get excited about shadow magic have their stiffie. Of course, that's just me, so I can just cut it out when I print out the spell and stuff it in my PHB.
    Well alright. Since two out of three posters have complained about both of these, I'll go ahead and remove them.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-01 at 04:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    My question is... WHY? WHY DO YOU HATE EVOCATION SO!?!?

    In all seriousness, this seems to be given one of the most obviously powerful specialists in the game an amazing damage spell (fighters and barbarians have to work their whole build to do that sort of damage, and you can just have it floating above your head?).

    So the question still is, why is this needed?
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    My question is... WHY? WHY DO YOU HATE EVOCATION SO!?!?
    Excuse me, sir, but if you look at this thread you will see that I am a huge supporter of evocation reform!

    In all seriousness, this seems to be given one of the most obviously powerful specialists in the game an amazing damage spell (fighters and barbarians have to work their whole build to do that sort of damage, and you can just have it floating above your head?).

    So the question still is, why is this needed?
    Because I saw this video

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Excuse me, sir, but if you look at this thread you will see that I am a huge supporter of evocation reform!
    I knew you were, Seraph. I stalk you end up looking at most of your threads because of the afore-mentioned titles. That's why I wondered.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Well, it's WotC's screwed-up logic that made the orbs conjuration to begin with. Just because I think they should be SR: Yes and in evocation doesn't mean I can just throw that fix onto everything I make that involves them.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Also, when we look at balance, we're looking at 4 different save-or-sucks, involving all 3 saves, and Energy Substitution is a +0 metamagic feat that turns all four orbs into one type of damage.
    Actually, all of the saves against the Orb spells are Fortitude saves.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    Actually, all of the saves against the Orb spells are Fortitude saves.
    I believe Seraphi was saying that its 3 different effects, Save-or-Suck effects to be percise, hitting a single target. As in, you have 3 chances to screw over the opponent with one spell ontop of dealing damage. Not so much that it target 3 different saves. Though a spell that does target 3 different saves would be interesting.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Arcane Thesis Energy Volley + Incantatrix 10 + Practical Maximize + Practical Twin = TwinMaxiPowered Energy Volley, the 9th level spell, for an estimated total of (20*6 + 20*3.5/2)*4*2 = 1240 damage at a net feat investment of four (counting Iron Will). Not really that much more ridiculous than you could get already, but definitely much more stylish, and the ability to split it among four targets is very convenient. It's a shame True Strike doesn't really work though

    As for its intended purpose, 280 damage is certainly adequate DD in plenty of circumstances. The casting time of one round may not be as negative a balance factor as you would think though, since that makes it especially accessible for a Wizard looking to use Arcane Spellsurge. Ironically it really punishes Warmages the most, since they're the only ones without any really easy options for speeding it up.
    Last edited by DeAnno; 2011-12-01 at 07:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnno View Post
    Arcane Thesis Energy Volley + Incantatrix 10 + Practical Maximize + Practical Twin = TwinMaxiPowered Energy Volley, the 9th level spell, for an estimated total of (20*6 + 20*3.5/2)*4*2 = 1240 damage at a net feat investment of four (counting Iron Will). Not really that much more ridiculous than you could get already, but definitely much more stylish, and the ability to split it among four targets is very convenient. It's a shame True Strike doesn't really work though
    This was my first thought.
    But then I saw that it can be held for a few rounds after casting.

    So then I thought, Quickened Spell. You could spend two rounds pumping them out and walk into an encounter with 32+ of these ready all on the first round.

    Combine it with Snow casting and Cold Focus etc. and they all become Cold damage that can ignore Cold immunity.

    Use Divine Metamagic or something similar for true blasting shenanigans.

    Epic level you could throw Intensify Spell and Enhance Spell plus Improved Metamagic for truly stupid levels of damage. Even other epic characters could be totally wasted in a single round with the right build.

    But I do love the spell thematics wise. I must say. Very nice.
    Compared to other spells it is actually pretty balanced. lol.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Well, it's WotC's screwed-up logic that made the orbs conjuration to begin with. Just because I think they should be SR: Yes and in evocation doesn't mean I can just throw that fix onto everything I make that involves them.
    Yes, but at least when you're making your own blasty spells you can base them off evocation spells (this would of course mean using sonic or force (or both) rather than acid) rather than conjuration spells.

    Instead of the four you mentioned, make it a meld of magic missile (maximum ten missiles), fireball (max 20d6), lightning bolt (max 20d6), shout (max scaling damage is 20d6), and Cone of Cold (max 20d6).
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2011-12-01 at 09:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Since you've removed the multi-orb, single-target restriction, it's no longer necessary to state "even if that target was already struck by another one of your orbs from this spell." Me, I'd add SR: Yes and Evocation precisely because WoTC's error in creating imbalanced spells is no reason to perpetuate the error with imbalanced homebrew. Call it Conjuration (creation)/Evocation if you want to honor the spell's roots. Also, this spell needs the ]acid], [cold], [electricity], and [fire] descriptors.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-12-02 at 12:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    Since you've removed the multi-orb, single-target restriction, it's no longer necessary to state "even if that target was already struck by another one of your orbs from this spell." Me, I'd add SR: Yes and Evocation precisely because WoTC's error in creating imbalanced spells is no reason to perpetuate the error with imbalanced homebrew. Call it Conjuration (creation)/Evocation if you want to honor the spell's roots. Also, this spell needs the ]acid], [cold], [electricity], and [fire] descriptors.
    Alright, fair enough.

    Instead of the four you mentioned, make it a meld of magic missile (maximum ten missiles), fireball (max 20d6), lightning bolt (max 20d6), shout (max scaling damage is 20d6), and Cone of Cold (max 20d6).
    Um, no. The entire reason for making this spell was because of how it looked: four orbs floating above the caster's head and bursting out like the Dragonballs after someone makes a wish.

    Actually, all of the saves against the Orb spells are Fortitude saves.
    Whoa. No way. I just checked and you're right!

    Why does a Fortitude save negate entanglement? That makes NO sense...

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Why does a Fortitude save negate entanglement? That makes NO sense...
    Why does the orb even inflict entanglement? That makes no sense either.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    Why does the orb even inflict entanglement? That makes no sense either.
    Touche! But I guess I can see it, I mean, if you're wearing metal armor, the electricity magnetizes it to your skin and restricts your movement (Maybe?) Still, that is definitely a RefNegates effect.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    One could make the argument you can't reflex out of your own armor, you simply need the fortitude (or more precisely, brute strength) to be able to shrug off the magnetic forces.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Then it'd be a strength check, not a Fort save.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Touche! But I guess I can see it, I mean, if you're wearing metal armor, the electricity magnetizes it to your skin and restricts your movement (Maybe?) Still, that is definitely a RefNegates effect.
    I picture the effect being similar to a tazer; the electricity disrupts your body's nervous system and your muscles start to spasm, making it hard/impossible to control your movevents.
    The Fort save is because its not a mental effect (so no will involved) and you can't "dodge" electricity (no reflex) but if you are tough enough you can overcome the involuntary twitching your own muscles are doing.
    Thats my take on it anyhow.

    Its not actually entangling you with something physical like magical roots, but the effect is the same, so they declined to make up another ability that was identical accept for what we call it.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    I picture the effect being similar to a tazer; the electricity disrupts your body's nervous system and your muscles start to spasm, making it hard/impossible to control your movevents.
    The Fort save is because its not a mental effect (so no will involved) and you can't "dodge" electricity (no reflex) but if you are tough enough you can overcome the involuntary twitching your own muscles are doing.
    Thats my take on it anyhow.

    Its not actually entangling you with something physical like magical roots, but the effect is the same, so they declined to make up another ability that was identical accept for what we call it.
    I picture the effect as WoTC taking Realism and Consistency out into the alley behind their office, savagely performing immoral acts on them without the benefit of lube, than blindfolding them, lining them up against a wall, and executing them via firing squad without so much as a "would you chaps like a final cigarette".
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-12-02 at 11:50 AM.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    I picture the effect as WoTC taking Realism and Consistency out into the alley behind their office, savagely performing immoral acts on them without the benefit of lube, than blindfolding them, lining them up against a wall, and executing them via firing squad without so much as a "would you chaps like a final cigarette".
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaiyamato View Post
    Combine it with Snow casting and Cold Focus etc. and they all become Cold damage that can ignore Cold immunity.
    You don't need Snow Casting, though. Cold is already a descriptor. Energy Substitution(Cold) and Piercing Cold or Energy Substitution(Fire) and Searing Spell will handle it nicely. Piercing Cold just has Frost Mage to back it up being the only real difference.
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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    I picture the effect being similar to a tazer; the electricity disrupts your body's nervous system and your muscles start to spasm, making it hard/impossible to control your movevents.
    The Fort save is because its not a mental effect (so no will involved) and you can't "dodge" electricity (no reflex) but if you are tough enough you can overcome the involuntary twitching your own muscles are doing.
    Thats my take on it anyhow.

    Its not actually entangling you with something physical like magical roots, but the effect is the same, so they declined to make up another ability that was identical accept for what we call it.
    Okay, but then why does it only apply if you're wearing metal armor? Why doesn't it apply all the time?

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    [SIZE="4"]
    You make a ranged touch attack at up to four different enemies. You may choose which orb affects which enemy, or send multiple orbs at a single or two or three targets. (Four orbs at one, or two orbs at two, or three orbs at one and one orb at the other, etc).
    Would it be easier to say:

    You make a ranged touch attack with each orb, and may target whomever you choose. You must make a ranged touch attack for each orb, regardless of how many strike the same target.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by motionmatrix View Post
    Would it be easier to say:

    You make a ranged touch attack with each orb, and may target whomever you choose. You must make a ranged touch attack for each orb, regardless of how many strike the same target.
    I don't know, I think my wording is pretty clear.

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    Default Re: Orb of Yeah, This is What an Eighth Level Spell Looks Like (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    The wording is clear, just unnecessary, you pretty much state every single option available.

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