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    Default Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Evoker Style (Defensive)
    Prerequisites: Must be unable to cast arcane or divine spells
    Benefit: You gain access to a special item called an Evoker. The Evoker appears before you immediately, and you have full knowledge of its power and how to use it. You cannot sell your Evoker, and the item itself may be Sundered, but you can will it back into being as a swift action. (Treat it, in all ways, as if it were the mind blade of a soulknife)

    An Evoker bears a striking resemblance to a Desert Eagle pistol. It cannot be used as a weapon, however, as a standard action, you may point the Evoker at your own forehead or temple and pull the trigger. (You must be holding the weapon in one hand to do this)

    Shooting yourself deals no damage, however, it does grant you access to your inner power, called a "Persona". This Persona manifests itself overhead and lends you its power.

    When you shoot yourself, you may cast a single cleric spell with a range of personal or touch. You may only target yourself with this spell. This is a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your character level. Unlike a divine caster, you need not have a minimum ability score in order to use your Evoker.

    When you take this feat, you choose the spell you will be able to cast. You may only choose a single 1st level cleric spell (but see Special).

    Taking this feat for the first time gives you access to a pool of Persona points, equal to the power points given to a psion whose class level equals your character level. Whenever you cast a spell-like ability with your Evoker, you consume a number of Persona points equal to the amount you would have needed to manifest a power of the same level as the spell you cast (1 Persona point for a 1st level spell, 3 Persona points for a 2nd level spell, and so on). You gain bonus Persona points for a high Charisma score, using the chart for a psion with a high Intelligence score to determine how many bonus Persona points you get.

    Using your Evoker does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Regardless of the spell you chose, you cast the spell-like ability as part of the standard action that you use to draw your Evoker. (For example, you could cast restoration as a spell-like ability with a casting time of 1 standard action instead of 3 rounds, but casting a swift or immediate action spell would still require the same standard action)

    Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time, you may choose a different cleric spell to learn. If your character level is high enough to give you access to higher level spells (as if you were a cleric of your character level), you may choose higher level spells, but you may not skip levels. (A 6th level fighter could not take this feat a second time and immediately gain access to cure serious wounds, he would need to learn a 2nd level spell before he could get a 3rd level spell)

    Taking this feat multiple times does not grant you additional Persona points per day.

    This feat is available on any character without spellcasting's bonus feat list, but cannot be selected when a class grants you a specific feat as a bonus feat. (For example, a 1st level dragonfire adept could not take this feat instead of his bonus Dragontouched feat, but a fighter, warblade, or scout could choose this feat instead of any of his bonus feats)

    At 3rd level, and every 2 levels after 3rd, you learn an additional cleric spell with a range of personal or touch as a spell-like ability. This spell may be of up to the highest level spell you are able to cast if you were a cleric of your character level, but only if you have access to every spell level lower than that one. (See above for rules on gaining access to higher level spells).

    If you take this feat after 1st level, you learn additional spells as noted above for each odd level you have automatically, then continue to learn more spells as you level up.

    A character who has both the Evoker Style (Offensive) and Evoker Style (Defensive) feats only has one pool of Persona points.



    Evoker Style (Offensive)
    Prerequisites: Must not be able to cast arcane or divine spells

    Benefit: You gain access to a special item called an Evoker. The Evoker appears before you immediately, and you have full knowledge of its power and how to use it. You cannot sell your Evoker, and the item itself may be Sundered, but you can will it back into being as a swift action. (Treat it, in all ways, as if it were the mind blade of a soulknife)

    An Evoker bears a striking resemblance to a Desert Eagle pistol. It cannot be used as a weapon, however, as a standard action, you may point the Evoker at your own forehead or temple and pull the trigger. (You must be holding the weapon in one hand to do this)

    Shooting yourself deals no damage, however, it does grant you access to your inner power, called a "Persona". This Persona manifests itself overhead and lends you its power.

    Taking this feat for the first time gives you access to a pool of Persona points, equal to the power points given to a psion whose class level equals your character level. Whenever you cast a spell-like ability with your Evoker, you consume a number of Persona points equal to the amount you would have needed to manifest a power of the same level as the spell you cast (1 Persona point for a 1st level spell, 3 Persona points for a 2nd level spell, and so on). You gain bonus Persona points for a high Charisma score, using the chart for a psion with a high Intelligence score to determine how many bonus Persona points you get.

    Using your Evoker does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Regardless of the spell you chose, you cast the spell-like ability as part of the standard action that you use to draw your Evoker.

    Select one 1st level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. You must choose a spell with the [fire], [ice], [electricity], [acid], or [sonic] descriptor, and it must deal hit point damage to a creature.

    You become able to cast this spell as a spell-like ability by using your Evoker. Your caster level is equal to your character level. The DC for the saving throw allowed by the spell, if any, is based on your Charisma modifier. You may cast the spell without needing a minimum casting ability score.

    The spell you gain access to from this feat follows all the same rules that the Evoker follows from the Evoker Style (Defensive) feat.

    The power of your Persona allows you to extend your abilities beyond the limits of an arcane caster. All level caps for the spells you gain for this feat become 20, unless the spell itself has a higher level cap than 20. (So a lesser orb of fire could deal up to 10d8 damage at level 20, while a cone of cold spell could deal up to 20d6 damage at level 20)

    Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time, you may choose a different wizard spell to learn. If your character level is high enough to give you access to higher level spells (as if you were a wizard of your character level), you may choose higher level spells, but you may not skip levels. (A 6th level fighter could not take this feat a second time and immediately gain access to fireball, he would need to learn a 2nd level spell before he could get a 3rd level spell)

    Taking this feat multiple times does not grant you additional Persona points per day.

    This feat is available on any character without spellcasting's bonus feat list, but cannot be selected when a class grants you a specific feat as a bonus feat. (For example, a 1st level dragonfire adept could not take this feat instead of his bonus Dragontouched feat, but a fighter, warblade, or scout could choose this feat instead of any of his bonus feats)


    At 3rd level, and every 2 levels after 3rd, you learn an additional wizard spell with an elemental descriptor that deals numerical hit point damage. This spell may be of up to the highest level spell you are able to cast if you were a wizard of your character level, but only if you have access to every spell level lower than that one. (See above for rules on gaining access to higher level spells).

    If you take this feat after 1st level, you learn additional spells as noted above for each odd level you have automatically, then continue to learn more spells as you level up.

    A character who has both the Evoker Style (Offensive) and Evoker Style (Defensive) feats only has one pool of Persona points.

    Persona-Type: Hermes (Persona)
    Prerequisites: Evoker Style (Offensive), must be able to Evoke a spell-like ability with the [fire] descriptor
    Benefit: Whenever you Evoke an arcane spell-like ability that does not have the [fire] descriptor, it loses whatever descriptor it had, gains the [fire] descriptor, and deals fire damage instead of whatever type of damage it dealt.

    As a secondary benefit, you receive a +3 Persona-type bonus to your caster level when Evoking spell-like abilities with the [fire] descriptor.

    Special: A player may only select one (Persona) feat.


    Persona-Type: Trismegistus (Evolved Persona)
    Prerequisites: Persona-Type: Hermes
    Benefit: You gain Fast Healing X, where X is equal to the highest level spell-like ability you are able to Evoke.

    Additionally, whenever you Evoke a spell-like ability with the [fire] descriptor while you are holding a melee weapon, you may remove the fire descriptor to have the spell deal its damage based on your weapon's damage. (If your weapon is a cold-iron slashing weapon, so is the damage of the spell-like ability)

    Regardless of the weapon, the damage the spell-like ability deals is always treated as magic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.

    Special: A player may only select one Evolved Persona feat.



    Persona-Type: Io (Persona)
    Prerequisites: Evoker Style (Defensive)
    Benefit: Whenever you Evoke a spell-like ability with the conjuration (healing) school/subschool, you heal an additional 2 hit points per spell level. (Regardless of whether the spell actually heals your hit points)

    These hit points are recovered immediately, and do not add to the spell-like ability of a spell that heals you over time. (Evoking lesser vigor would cause you to heal 2 hit points, then 1 hit point per round, not 3 hit points per round)

    Special: A player may only select one Persona feat.


    Persona-Type: Isis (Evolved Persona)
    Prerequisites: Persona-Type: Io
    Benefit: Whenever you Evoke a divine spell-like ability with a range of touch, you may have it affect all allies within 30 feet of you, as well as yourself. Additionally, all divine spell-like abilities you Evoke have their duration doubled, as if they were affected by the Extend Spell feat (this does not increase the spell-like ability's effective spell level, or require you to spend additional Persona points)

    Special: A player may only select one Evolved Persona feat.


    Persona-Type: Polydeuces (Persona)
    Prerequisites: Evoker Style (Offensive), must be able to Evoke a spell-like ability with the [electricity] descriptor.
    Benefit:Whenever you Evoke an arcane spell-like ability that does not have the [electricity] descriptor, it loses whatever descriptor it had, gains the [electricity] descriptor, and deals electricity damage instead of whatever type of damage it dealt.

    As a secondary benefit, you receive a +3 Persona-type bonus to your caster level when Evoking spell-like abilities with the [electricity] descriptor.

    Special: A player may only select one (Persona) feat.


    Persona-Type: Caesar (Evolved Persona)
    Prerequisites: Persona-Type: Polydeuces
    Benefit: You learn two new spell-like abilities: the call lightning and call lightning storm spell-like abilities. When Evoking one of these spell-like abilities, you consume fewer Persona points than usual. When Evoking call lightning, you only need spend 3 Persona points, and when Evoking call lightning storm, you need only spend 7 Persona points.

    You still need a minimum character level of 5 to Evoke call lightning and a minimum character level of 9 to Evoke call lightning storm. Call lightning is still treated as a 3rd level spell with 13+Cha DC, and call lightning storm is still treated as a 5th level spell with 15+Cha DC.

    Special: A player may only select one Evolved Persona feat.


    Persona-Type: Penthiselia (Persona)
    Prerequisites: Evoker Style (Offensive), must be able to Evoke a spell-like ability with the [cold] descriptor
    Benefit: Whenever you Evoke an arcane spell-like ability that does not have the [cold] descriptor, it loses whatever descriptor it had, gains the [cold] descriptor, and deals cold damage instead of whatever type of damage it dealt.

    As a secondary benefit, you receive a +3 Persona-type bonus to your caster level when Evoking spell-like abilities with the [cold] descriptor.

    Special: A player may only select one (Persona) feat.



    Persona-Type: Artemisia (Evolved Persona)
    Prerequisites: Persona-Type: Penthiselia
    Benefit: You gain the ability to Evoke the Mind Charge spell-like ability. This ability costs one Persona point. When you use it, the next arcane spell-like ability you Evoke deals double damage. (If the damage it deals is expressed in dice, you deal double dice damage)

    This state only lasts for one round. If you do not Evoke an arcane spell-like ability during your next turn, your Mind Charge effect ends.

    Special: A player may only select one Evolved Persona feat.



    Persona-Type: Palladion (Persona)
    Prerequisites: Evoker Style (Defensive)
    Benefit: You gain the ability to use your Evoker as a ranged weapon. The Evoker produces infinite ammunition and never needs to be loaded. The Evoker deals 1d10 damage plus your Strength modifier, threatens a critical on a natural 20, and deals double damage if the critical is confirmed. The Evoker's range is 80 feet.

    You are automatically proficient with your Evoker.

    Your Evoker is treated as a magic weapon for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. You may enchant your Evoker as if it were a masterwork weapon, and its enchantments stay on it every time you rematerialize it.

    Unlike most ranged weapons, you do not provoke an attack of opportunity for firing your Evoker while threatened. If you fire your Evoker at a creature that is within your melee reach, your Evoker's base damage becomes 2d8 instead of 1d10.

    You are always treated as having the benefits of the Precise Shot feat when wielding your Evoker.

    Special: A player may only select one Persona feat.



    Persona-Type: Athena (Evolved Persona)
    Prerequisites: Persona-Type: Palladion
    Benefit: When you make an attack roll, you may sacrifice X amount of hit points, where X can be any number up to your Base Attack Bonus. If you do, your attack deals an extra amount of damage based on the weapon you are wielding:

    No Bonus Damage: Light weapons, off-hand side of a double weapon, non-Evoker ranged weapons
    +X Bonus Damage: One-handed weapons, strong side of a double weapon
    +2X Bonus Damage: Two-handed weapons, one-handed weapons held in both hands, your Evoker

    This bonus damage applies to all attacks you make this round, but you must pay the hit points at the first attack you make during the round. You may not prevent this hit point loss with damage reduction.

    Special: A player may only select one Evolved Persona feat.


    Persona-Type: Nyx (Evolved Persona)
    Prerequisites: Any Elemental Persona feat (Hermes, Polydeuces, Penthesilia), Character Level 10th
    Benefit: If your Persona-Type has a preferred spell descriptor (Hermes has [fire], for instance), all your level caps with spells you cast of that level increase by an additional +5, making them 25 if the spell itself does not have a higher cap.

    As a secondary benefit, you receive a +2 Evolved Persona-type bonus to your Caster Level when you Evoke spell-like abilities of your preferred descriptor.

    Special: A player may only select one Evolved Persona feat.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-07 at 10:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    The implications of this are interesting. If you take Offensive and Defensive, do you get a separate pool for each, and do they count for spell level reqs separately? (ie: Would Defensive: Cure Light Wounds qualify you for Offensive: Scorching Ray) I would be inclined to say the RAW suggests 2 pools and no spell level overlap, but that might not be the best way to do things.

    Interestingly a Fighter using bonus feats from 2-18 becomes a "full" spellcaster in terms of his mana pool and spell level access, even though he only gets one spell per level.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Hmm. I kind of want to see this made into a class, personally. Not sure how it would work, but it could be interesting.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnno View Post
    The implications of this are interesting. If you take Offensive and Defensive, do you get a separate pool for each, and do they count for spell level reqs separately? (ie: Would Defensive: Cure Light Wounds qualify you for Offensive: Scorching Ray) I would be inclined to say the RAW suggests 2 pools and no spell level overlap, but that might not be the best way to do things.

    Interestingly a Fighter using bonus feats from 2-18 becomes a "full" spellcaster in terms of his mana pool and spell level access, even though he only gets one spell per level.
    No. Evoker Style (Offense) says nowhere that you gain access to a Persona point pool. You do not gain a Persona point pool from taking that feat. They also do not overlap.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Added the Persona and Evolved Persona feats for some customization.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Updated Palladion to allow the Evoker to become a magic weapon with enchantments so that it doesn't fall behind at higher levels.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    You made a mistake on the Polydeuces feat.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Okizruin View Post
    You made a mistake on the Polydeuces feat.
    I assume you are referring to the fact that I had it tagged as an Evolved Persona feat instead of a Persona feat, which I fixed, but just in case, that is what you meant, right?

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    That is correct.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    I would really like some feedback on this set of feats, if anyone has any to offer. Please?

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    so, unless I'm reading this wrong, these feats turn any non-caster into a full progression blaster/self buffer, provided they have a decent number of bonus feats? I can just imagine using a feat junkie build with this.
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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by lunar2 View Post
    so, unless I'm reading this wrong, these feats turn any non-caster into a full progression blaster/self buffer, provided they have a decent number of bonus feats? I can just imagine using a feat junkie build with this.
    A full progression blaster/self-buffer/healer, but only one spell per feat. And it's pretty cool, yes? It's kind of like the Martial Study feat, but for spells.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Is this based off a game or something? Just curious. It certainly sounds like it is.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    So, let me first state how I started:

    /Reads title. "Evoker Feats." Oh, lovely. Another set of feats to boost Class X.

    /Clicks. Hm... not for wizards...?

    /Reads. "You get a magic gun... DESERT EAGLE..." Yes, yes, yes! Bullet storm, baby! Sounds awesome and badass...

    "Only used when you shoot yourself in the head." FULL STOP. Um... what? Maybe this is an Inception reference? "You gain your Persona when shooting yourself."

    What were you shooting for with the fluff? Is it a reference to an anime I haven't watched or something? The opening was really interesting, but I couldn't figure out what was going on. The reason for the mechanics didn't connect, and I didn't see how this would happen to a character (especially as a feat...) in a game. With that said, it still turned out cool (slap a Greek name on anything, and it looks better!), but I think it could be about... oh... 20% cooler?


    OK, that transcription and the fluff over, I want to talk about the crunch:

    DEFENSIVE:
    Well, not too powerful, but, for a fighter, definitely worth it. Special gun that gives you access to SLAs? Done. Sure, you'd have to spend most of your fighter feats on it, but getting Harm/Heal, Finger of Death, and a good bit of common buffs useable as you want in a day is nice.

    However, I'd say that the offensive is a little underpowered: the Fighter (we'll assume the using character is a fighter, considering the feat investment, few other classes get enough feats to utilize this properly) takes Offensive Evoker Style, and invests enough to move the feats into high damage zones. He runs into the same problem as the Evoker Wizard: even with a boosted Damage cap, you're looking at elemental resistance and low damage output. However, the real problem for me is the use of actions: it requires the standard action, meaning the Fighter can't attack. Oh, and remember that the use of the Evoker Pistol is about the same or less powerful than a decently optimized fighter (I'm assuming something like Power Attack and so on).

    However, that said, Palladion makes this a decent-ish choice, but is still sucking up craploads of feats.

    Defensive:
    If you have a ton of extra feats (Think 9), then this is a great way to buff yourself up in the morning. Note that these feats would qualify for the Quicken SLA, etc, line (Yay! MOAR feats spent!). Rating: Doable.

    Offensive
    Unless, as another mentioned, you're using a feat-flopped build, these great, interestingly fluffed feats are a MASSIVE TRAP. While they can benefit, as before, from the "Metamagic X SLA" line, that's more feats to try and save a very bad style that's going to conflict with you most likely. Rating: Run like crazy.

    To improve Offensive, I'd look at the fluff and figure out what the hay the gun is actually doing in the equation: I can't tell, personally. However, whatever the gun's doing will probably tell you other things it can do to buff up the Offensive Styles.
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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    DEFENSIVE:
    Well, not too powerful, but, for a fighter, definitely worth it. Special gun that gives you access to SLAs? Done. Sure, you'd have to spend most of your fighter feats on it, but getting Harm/Heal, Finger of Death, and a good bit of common buffs useable as you want in a day is nice.
    Notice that you may only target yourself with any cleric spell you cast. So unless you want to kill yourself, I'd stay away from finger of death and harm. (Then again, shooting yourself in the head is a pretty good sign that you're trying to kill yourself)

    However, I'd say that the offensive is a little underpowered: the Fighter (we'll assume the using character is a fighter, considering the feat investment, few other classes get enough feats to utilize this properly) takes Offensive Evoker Style, and invests enough to move the feats into high damage zones. He runs into the same problem as the Evoker Wizard: even with a boosted Damage cap, you're looking at elemental resistance and low damage output. However, the real problem for me is the use of actions: it requires the standard action, meaning the Fighter can't attack. Oh, and remember that the use of the Evoker Pistol is about the same or less powerful than a decently optimized fighter (I'm assuming something like Power Attack and so on).

    However, that said, Palladion makes this a decent-ish choice, but is still sucking up craploads of feats.
    Palladion does not require you to take the Offensive-Style feat to qualify. It only requires 3 feats: Defensive, Palladion, Athena. Then you can spend your other feats on higher-powered cleric spells and never even dip into the Offensive.

    Defensive:
    If you have a ton of extra feats (Think 9), then this is a great way to buff yourself up in the morning. Note that these feats would qualify for the Quicken SLA, etc, line (Yay! MOAR feats spent!). Rating: Doable.
    Not allowed. Using the Evoker is required to use the SLA. The SLA is part of using the Evoker. But using the Evoker itself is not a Spell-Like Ability, and thus the action cannot be Quickened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil
    Is this based off a game or something? Just curious. It certainly sounds like it is.
    Yes. The game is Persona 3.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-07 at 01:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    OK, I will be brutally honest. Never having played the game, I will simply base this off my take on the feats.

    These are fairly meh. I would honestly never take an offensive persona feat, and that was before you said you can't MetaSLA them. The offensive ones are, as Sam said, a trap.

    Even the defensive ones are only so-so. Sure, take the feat once and you get 300-odd castings of cure light wounds a day (more if you have a halfway decent Cha) at level 20, but only on yourself. And if you want any decent buffs, you have to burn several feats to get them, although I suppose two feats for something like bull's strength more than 100 times a day is kind of nice. Once again, though, it's only useable on yourself.

    At the very least, you need another feat to let you use defensive personas on other people. I personally recommend making the feats Evoker Style (Divine) and (Arcane), and just let them have the spells to use as normal on who they shoot. Also, you really, really need to make Palladion takeable without burning your one Persona feat.

    Also, this is a very heavy feat investment. Even if you give Fighters a bonus feat every level and a level up feat every even level like I do, you'll still be burning almost all your feats on this to make it decent.

    As I stated before: this is a good idea, but I don't think feats are the way to do it. I suggest making a class.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post

    At the very least, you need another feat to let you use defensive personas on other people. I personally recommend making the feats Evoker Style (Divine) and (Arcane), and just let them have the spells to use as normal on who they shoot. Also, you really, really need to make Palladion takeable without burning your one Persona feat.
    Persona-Style: Isis lets you use all your defensive Persona spells on your entire party at once.

    And if this is such a feat tax, why would Palladion being available in addition to Hermes/Isis/Polydeuces/Perthesilia change anything?

    Edit: And without the damage caps, you only really need to take Offensive Style once or twice, after all, cone of cold has no real advantage over fireball if you make them have the same damage cap (except a higher save DC)

    Even if you only take lesser orb of acid, scorching ray, lightning bolt, and orb of cold, that gives you four powerful scaling SLAs, all of which are superior to simply using a ranged weapon to attack someone (especially if you have full BAB)
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-07 at 02:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    There we go. I softened the feat tax by granting you an additional spell known every two levels from each feat, so you can actually build up quite an impressive list if you take it multiple times.

    Additionally, Evoker Style (Defensive) is no longer a prerequisite for Evoker Style (Offensive).

    How's that?

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Notice that you may only target yourself with any cleric spell you cast. So unless you want to kill yourself, I'd stay away from finger of death and harm. (Then again, shooting yourself in the head is a pretty good sign that you're trying to kill yourself)



    Palladion does not require you to take the Offensive-Style feat to qualify. It only requires 3 feats: Defensive, Palladion, Athena. Then you can spend your other feats on higher-powered cleric spells and never even dip into the Offensive.



    Not allowed. Using the Evoker is required to use the SLA. The SLA is part of using the Evoker. But using the Evoker itself is not a Spell-Like Ability, and thus the action cannot be Quickened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya
    Let me explain... no, there is too much. Let me sum up.
    So... it's actually WORSE than I said it was, unable to use any sort of action economy AT ALL? OK.

    Let's assume you *just* take three feats to get the benefits of Palladion. Here's what you get:

    1. (Defense): First Level Buff (Whether or not it's an SLA really doesn't matter much), useable more than enough per day. Let's assume CLW.
    2. You get a [Magic] heavy crossbow that auto-reloads. You get the benefits of Precise Shot and the equivalent of one other feat.
    3. You may sacrifice HP to gain extra damage on one attack. Let's assume a median of 10 BAB. For your evoker, that means you're dealing 1d10+20 damage. Hm, not bad.

    Here's my thoughts: that's worth taking, if you're doing THF. Sure, it's three feats, but still. It's OK for an archer-y build. If you're focused on using the Evoker, it's about the same, perhaps a tiny bit better.

    I'll rate it as OK, still.

    Main problem is now action economy and feat tax. Due to a high number of buff choices, it's not *too* bad, and might help a melee character begin to even out with a cleric.

    Offensive is still a trap, but I'd say Defensive could definitely work in some builds. In fact, using it with Io>Isis makes you a pretty decent buffmaster. Now, to take these feats as a CLERIC.
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    So, Defensive is nice.
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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Sam, you forgot one small detail: you can slap these on a Psion to effectively double your power for the day, especially now that you get several spells from one feat. Not sure that was intended, but this added on a Kineticist is an amazingly versatile build. Assuming you have at least a 20 in both Cha and Int at level 20 (a crazy-low assumption, you'd most likely be pushing at least 30-odd for Int on a Psion build of any kind), this gives you a total of over 800 combined Persona and Psi points to work with, and you could get away with burning several level up feats on this because you automatically get bonus psionic feats as you gain class levels. In fact, it might be wiser to only take defensive Evoker feats with this build, effectively making one of your point sets buff/heal and one of them attack. (Can you tell Psion is my favorite "caster" class? )

    OK, NeoSeraphi, back to you: either missed this before, or am just slow:

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    The spell you gain access to from this feat follows all the same rules that the Evoker follows from the Evoker Style (Defensive) feat.
    What does this actually mean? For the life of me, I can't figure it out.

    Also, the changes make these some very good feats. Taking six of these (two defensive feats, two offensive feats, a persona feat and an evolved persona feat) effectively lets you be a backup spellcaster, and is an amazing option for a solo game. The "no spellcasting" requirement is a very smart move on them.

    One serious issue: what would happen if, for example, I took the six feats I just mentioned above, then multiclassed into let's say Cleric? Do I lose the feats? Do they stop progressing? This needs to be addressed.

    Also, why does the Evoker not do any damage from the get go? Just curious. I'd make it be a weak weapon with limited range, and make Palladion buff it up more. Is this related to the game somehow?

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    I have the perfect build for this... (Using other homebrew, bear with me).

    Human Chaos Monk 1/Swashbuckler 3/Feat Rogue 16

    Just take Martial Stance and Daring Outlaw to get SA as a 19th level Rogue, take Kung Fu Scholar (Chaos Monk only feat), to replace Charisma-based stuff with Intelligence, and a bunch of these Evoker feats, and then go out and prod buttock.
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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    I do not know Chaos Monk or Feat Rogue. Do you have links on those? You have caught my interest, sir.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    i will say that even with the old feat heavy version, this could be a very good investment. divine favor (+3 attack and damage 9th level, or +6 with the boosted CL cap at 18th) is a 1st level cleric spell that you get with a single feat, and is more impressive than the entire weapon focus chain. magic missile takes 2 feats to get, and now you can reliably hit pretty much everybody, including incorporeal foes, for decent damage. 1d4+1 may seem small, but you get 1 extra missile per 2cl, up to 10 at level 19. 10d4+10 is approximately equivalent to 10d6, and as long as you beat SR, you hit. also, he stated that you couldn't Quicken the SLAs because their action is part of the gun's action. you can still empower, maximize, and other metamagic them.
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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by lunar2 View Post
    i will say that even with the old feat heavy version, this could be a very good investment. divine favor (+3 attack and damage 9th level, or +6 with the boosted CL cap at 18th) is a 1st level cleric spell that you get with a single feat, and is more impressive than the entire weapon focus chain. magic missile takes 2 feats to get, and now you can reliably hit pretty much everybody, including incorporeal foes, for decent damage. 1d4+1 may seem small, but you get 1 extra missile per 2cl, up to 10 at level 19. 10d4+10 is approximately equivalent to 10d6, and as long as you beat SR, you hit. also, he stated that you couldn't Quicken the SLAs because their action is part of the gun's action. you can still empower, maximize, and other metamagic them.
    The boosted CL cap only applies to arcane spells.

    You can't take magic missile. It does not have the [fire], [electricity], [sonic], [acid], or [cold] descriptor.

    And yes, you can apply other Metamagic SLA feats.

    2. You get a [Magic] heavy crossbow that auto-reloads. You get the benefits of Precise Shot and the equivalent of one other feat.
    No. You get a magic composite greatbow that automatically adjusts itself to your Strength score. (I'm guessing you missed the part where you add your Strength score to your damage? Making the Evoker a much stronger ranged weapon than most)

    Just take Martial Stance and Daring Outlaw to get SA as a 19th level Rogue, take Kung Fu Scholar (Chaos Monk only feat), to replace Charisma-based stuff with Intelligence, and a bunch of these Evoker feats, and then go out and prod buttock.
    Why would you want to be Intelligent instead of Charismatic? Your bonus power pool and your save DCs are Charisma based.

    One serious issue: what would happen if, for example, I took the six feats I just mentioned above, then multiclassed into let's say Cleric? Do I lose the feats? Do they stop progressing? This needs to be addressed.

    Also, why does the Evoker not do any damage from the get go? Just curious. I'd make it be a weak weapon with limited range, and make Palladion buff it up more. Is this related to the game somehow?
    If you stop qualifying for a feat you have taken at any moment, you lose the benefits of the feat and cannot select another feat to replace it. It becomes dead on your character sheet until you qualify for it again. (For example, if your Strength was drained to 12 or below, you would be unable to use your Power Attack and Power Attack-feat chain feats until you got another four levels and upped your Strength score by one, or found a belt of giant strength).

    It's because A) getting a free weapon as part of a feat is incredibly unfair, especially a weapon that cannot be Sundered and deals magic damage from the get-go. (Especially ranged weapons, which are incredibly expensive, a longbow costs 75 gp, which is more than a greatsword) and B) Yes, it's part of the game. Evokers cannot be used as weapons in Persona 3. The only reason Palladion grants it is because Palladion's user Aigis uses a gun, and does not have an elemental affinity like the others. So for the people who wanted to use a gun in D&D, I figured I'd give them a way to do it.

    What does this actually mean? For the life of me, I can't figure it out.
    Now that I've changed the feats to be identical, that text is no longer required. I'll remove it.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Looking over this again, and specifically the changes, I think this works pretty nicely. Some of the offensive feats may not be the best, but hey, you can shoot fireballs out of a Desert Eagle. Even if it's sub-optimal, it's amazingly badass, and I'll take that. I think with Palladion on a Barbarian/Fighter (for extra HP), you could deal some decent damage.

    One thing; do you have to shoot yourself in the head? It still catches me up every time... perhaps have an optional rule for something else. I know it's in Persona and all, but it might not fit well in some circumstances. (Imagine doing that in a king's court, for example, with, I dunno, loads of LG clerics around to buff with Fly or whatever.)

    Other than the fluff, and the fact that it still *might* conflict with your actions, it's a great set of feats that are about worth the investment. They scale well ('cause they're spells...) I think, so you aren't wasting feats like you would on a standard chain.
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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    One thing; do you have to shoot yourself in the head? It still catches me up every time... perhaps have an optional rule for something else. I know it's in Persona and all, but it might not fit well in some circumstances. (Imagine doing that in a king's court, for example, with, I dunno, loads of LG clerics around to buff with Fly or whatever.)
    It's how I'm balancing the feats. You can only buff and heal yourself (unless you take Isis) and you can only attack with arcane spells. And of course, Athena and Power Attack stack, so you can take a penalty to your hit points and to your attack roll for massive damage. (And you don't have to shoot yourself in the head to activate Athena's power)

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    One more question: if you take a Persona feat that makes all your Evoked spells switch elements, are you forced to use the new element from your feat, or can you opt to keep the old damage type? Cuz if it forces the new type, it's a pretty tough choice to make.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    One more question: if you take a Persona feat that makes all your Evoked spells switch elements, are you forced to use the new element from your feat, or can you opt to keep the old damage type? Cuz if it forces the new type, it's a pretty tough choice to make.
    It forces the element. So you become specialized, but you receive a huge boost to all your spells (+3 Caster level) in exchange for your specialization.

    And of course it grants you access to the various Evolved Persona feats
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-07 at 06:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    I don't know if you could, but personally, I think you should have at least one Evolved Persona feat that can be taken after any Persona feat, instead of being forced to take a specific pair. Probably not doable while keeping it true to the game, though.

    Maybe I should ask Nick if he'd allow one of these when I level up. How would this work with LA?

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    Default Re: Evoker Feats! (Not the Specialist Wizard Kind) 3.5 PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    I don't know if you could, but personally, I think you should have at least one Evolved Persona feat that can be taken after any Persona feat, instead of being forced to take a specific pair. Probably not doable while keeping it true to the game, though.

    Maybe I should ask Nick if he'd allow one of these when I level up. How would this work with LA?
    LA only applies to ECL, it doesn't apply to your actual character level. Roric would be considered 2nd level right now.

    And you're right, I couldn't make one Evolved Persona that can evolve from any Persona.

    Edit: Well, I guess I'll try to make a unified Evolved Persona feat. Hold on...
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-07 at 06:40 PM.

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