E6 question over PrC

[lorddrake]

I have zero experience in E6. Never played.

I was wondering. Not every PrC is attainable by 6th level (or lower) and I was thinking. How it works on a E6 environment? What classes are possible? What is beyond reach?

[Yora]

You can only take levels in Prestige classes that can be entered on 6th level or earlier (which are few, as 6th level is usually the minimum to start a prestige class). Those that have prerequisites that can only be met by having at least 6 levels are unavailable in an E6 game.

I think we once made a quite extensive list of PrCs that can be used in E6 and that are actually good choices if taken for just 1 level. I'll see if I find that again.

Edit: That was easy. Here it is.

[lorddrake]

Thanks, Yora!

[Chauncymancer]

A homebrew I am aware of is to allow level retraining (cleric 3/ wizard 3-> cleric 3/ wizard 2/ Mystic theurge 1) when you would normally receive a feat such that even if you wouldn't qualify for the PrC after the substitution but you would before the substitution you can take it. Then you are allowed to keep trading levels you have for levels in the PrC you've entered even if you fall below requirements, by virtue of the level you already have in the PrC.
Your ECL is always 6 but over time you can become an MT 6, Arcane Archer 6, etcetera, then go back to the regular E6 feat gain.

[cagemarrow]

Don't forget that two feats and an association can get you early entry into prestige classes that normally require 8 ranks in a skill. I've made builds for Beastheart adept or Bloodstorm blade with it that have been a lot of fun.

The feats Primary Contact, and Favored in House/Guild from Cityscape along with an associated guild gets you one rank above your maximum in an associated skill so if you have both by 4th level you could have 8 ranks in a single skill to get into such a Prc at 5th, instead of waiting until 6th.

[Tyndmyr]

If all else fails, pick up the requirements, and get yourself level drained. Fail the save. Select a base class level to lose. Continue grinding xp.

It's a bit expensive, but it's a RAW legal way to get more PrC levels.

Note that it's probably not worthwhile until you have a fair number of feats, and in any case, there are still some PrCs, like Archmage, that you cannot qualify for in this way.

Dusk Giant shenanigans will probably be met by a DMs angry fist.

[Cieyrin]

You can only take levels in Prestige classes that can be entered on 6th level or earlier (which are few, as 6th level is usually the minimum to start a prestige class). Those that have prerequisites that can only be met by having at least 6 levels are unavailable in an E6 game.

I think we once made a quite extensive list of PrCs that can be used in E6 and that are actually good choices if taken for just 1 level. I'll see if I find that again.

Edit: That was easy. Here it is.

There's a distinct lack of Warleader on that list. Bonus strength to minions, +2 Cha. Requirements? BAB +3, lead a tribe in battle. Miniatures Handbook. Besides Stoneblessed and Master Specialist, its the only other 1st party PrC that you can enter at ECL 3-4.

[Gullintanni]

...its the only other 1st party PrC that you can enter at ECL 3-4.

Church Inquisitor comes online at 4th level with no shenanigans.

[dextercorvia]

There's a distinct lack of Warleader on that list. Bonus strength to minions, +2 Cha. Requirements? BAB +3, lead a tribe in battle. Miniatures Handbook. Besides Stoneblessed and Master Specialist, its the only other 1st party PrC that you can enter at ECL 3-4.

Church Inquisitor comes online at 4th level with no shenanigans.

Fist of the Forest and Squire of Legend can both be entered after 4.

Survivor can be entered after level 1 -- 3 if you aren't allowed to use Commoner.

[Gullintanni]

Fist of the Forest and Squire of Legend can both be entered after 4.

Survivor can be entered after level 1 -- 3 if you aren't allowed to use Commoner.

Keep this up and Yora's gonna have to update the list.

[dextercorvia]

Keep this up and Yora's gonna have to update the list.

It needs it anyway. I don't even see Master Specialist, and that is a no brainer.

[Yora]

Add them to the thread and I'll put them on the list.

[0Megabyte]

So, here's a weird, somewhat related question, in a slightly different direction:

What prestige classes make good E6 base classes in their own right? Take the first six levels of Assassin and just go there from level one, for example. It certainly sounds like a more powerful rogue... but then, there's also beguiler and factotem, already around.

[dextercorvia]

Add them to the thread and I'll put them on the list.

Are you trying to lure me into the foul dark arts of thread necromancy?

[A_S]

So, here's a weird, somewhat related question, in a slightly different direction:

What prestige classes make good E6 base classes in their own right? Take the first six levels of Assassin and just go there from level one, for example. It certainly sounds like a more powerful rogue... but then, there's also beguiler and factotem, already around.

Ur Priest.

...what?

[Novawurmson]

So, here's a weird, somewhat related question, in a slightly different direction:

What prestige classes make good E6 base classes in their own right? Take the first six levels of Assassin and just go there from level one, for example. It certainly sounds like a more powerful rogue... but then, there's also beguiler and factotem, already around.

I feel like this deserves a thread in its own right. I feel like the majority of prestige classes could be fine base classes if tweaked a bit.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

If you're willing to blow both of your starting feats as a human, you can enter Master Specialist a level early, making your E6 career Wizard 2/Master Specialist 4, which is just enough for minor esoterica. It's an interesting option. I'd personally say enchanters come away golden from it, as do transmuters.

[CommodoreCrunch]

There's a distinct lack of Warleader on that list. Bonus strength to minions, +2 Cha. Requirements? BAB +3, lead a tribe in battle. Miniatures Handbook. Besides Stoneblessed and Master Specialist, its the only other 1st party PrC that you can enter at ECL 3-4.

Walker in the Waste can be entered at 4th level. Granted, the class loses some appeal in E6 since you can't get the capstone, but you still get 3d6 desiccation damage on your touch attack. Ain't half bad.

[gorfnab]

Generic Expert (UA) 1/ Thief of Life 5 - Throw in some Incarnum feats as you're set.

[ko_sct]

A thing I've seen a few time is transforming prestige classes features into feat chains, the first feat having a prerequise similar to the prestige class requirement.

You might want to chek it out, I wanted to post a link but my google-fu as failed me once again.

[deuxhero]

There's a distinct lack of Warleader on that list. Bonus strength to minions, +2 Cha. Requirements? BAB +3, lead a tribe in battle. Miniatures Handbook. Besides Stoneblessed and Master Specialist, its the only other 1st party PrC that you can enter at ECL 3-4.

Forgot Survivor.

[Cieyrin]

A thing I've seen a few time is transforming prestige classes features into feat chains, the first feat having a prerequise similar to the prestige class requirement.

You might want to chek it out, I wanted to post a link but my google-fu as failed me once again.

Y'mean these? http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/ind...Prestige_Feats

[Tyndmyr]

A thing I've seen a few time is transforming prestige classes features into feat chains, the first feat having a prerequise similar to the prestige class requirement.

You might want to chek it out, I wanted to post a link but my google-fu as failed me once again.

I've actually played with a modified version of this. Here's how we did it.

Any class whatsoever can be taken as a feat chain. Each seperately listed ability on the class table became one feat. You must take them in order. Once you start taking a class feat chain, you cannot start another class feat chain until you finish.

It worked fairly well. A lot of traditional overpowered PrCs are so because they add a LOT of abilities. Look at Incantatrix...while still good, converting regular feats into "metamagic only" feats and having to take feats for the less notable abilities results in something pretty akin to balance.

Cleric is a slight caveat, tho. Turn Undead is pretty awesome for a one feat run, it was rather popular.

[gorfnab]

Some of the Racial Paragon classes are okay in E6.

[Little Brother]

ICleric is a slight caveat, tho. Turn Undead is pretty awesome for a one feat run, it was rather popular.

It already does: Planar Touchstone: Catalogs of Enlightenment(DLCS Sun Domain).

And you can enter Theurge at level 3 and Rainbow Servant at level 2, if you try. Two classes at CL 5>1 class at CL 6.