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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Phaederkiel's Avatar

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    Nov 2011

    Default Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    In a moment of mental absence i gave one of my players a pair of steadfast boots without exactly knowing how they work.

    These boots (aside some other perks) make a character perpetually readied against charges, and with any weapon to boot (horrible pun intended).

    what happens, when a character wearing such shoes gets charged?
    He hits the enemy with an attack at the same time the enemy hits him. This attack is at least RAW not an attack of opportunity.

    But normally, readying cost you an action. With the boots, you never need to pay it.

    I wanted to rule it as follows: when you use the shoes abilities, your inititiative gets put at the point where the charging opponent would have taken his turn.

    Unfortunately, this is quite small a payment if a big bunch of opponents which are close to each other in initiative all charge the character.

    And, char-specific: the character in question tends to do more damage outside her own turn ( thanks to karmic strike), so it is possibly a sound tactic to postpone her turn after a good stormtroopers“charge...

    I need a clean solution for this, the less rule text, the better:)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    Whenever a charge occurs against the character, treat it exactly as if the character had readied an action to set vs. charge. Resolve the ready action as normal, except that it requires no action on the player's part.

    That's a powerful item, to be honest, though creatures with exceptional reach can bypass it (by attacking from a distance that the wearer can't take the attack).
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Phaederkiel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    ok, let me clear this up:


    I know how the boots work RAW.

    I need a way to make using them a tactical decision instead of an auto-do.
    As they are now, they are, indeed, to powerful.

    the only alternative i see is only to charge with guys I want to die THIS ROUND.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    IMHO, it's not "too powerful". It's powerful, but not to the point that you can't find ways around it.

    You can charge with:
    creatures with exceptional reach
    when characters are in limited vision, but monsters are not (for example, blindsight in darkness or heavy smoke)
    with characters that have high defense or high HP.

    Bear in mind, this doesn't limit other options at all. You can move + attack, or cast, or use any of a number of other options. Don't feel shoehorned into charging.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    If you really want to nerf it, you could make it an immediate interrupt to activate the set against charge effect. It's still far more efficient than spending your turn readying it, but not as good as no action cost at all. Alternatively opportunity actions are fine as well.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaederkiel View Post
    ok, let me clear this up:


    I know how the boots work RAW.

    I need a way to make using them a tactical decision instead of an auto-do.
    As they are now, they are, indeed, to powerful.

    the only alternative i see is only to charge with guys I want to die THIS ROUND.
    Ummm... don't charge that person? Sounds simple to me. Move + Attack is not a charge, it just hurts. Really, unless you're using Shock Trooper AND Pounce, it's a rather sub-optimal use of a full-round action.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    herrhauptmann's Avatar

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    Any weapon?
    Please tell me the player isn't getting this advantage when fighting with a one hander. It's only for weapons wielded in 2 hands. (not that it matters, people rarely fight one handed)

    Charge the guy next to him with your combat brute feat using creature.
    First round after charge, turn and power attack the player for momentum swing. (Entirely doable without leap attack+shocktrooper)

    edit:
    Don't use it to adjust their initiative roll.
    Can guarantee they'll find some way to use it to their advantage, which will just have you back here asking for help again.
    What level is this character again?
    Last edited by herrhauptmann; 2011-12-12 at 01:58 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    I don't see this as a problem. He has to use a THW, and I'm sure there are plenty of other characters who are still effected by charges. Half the time, just don't charge. Simple. Spellcasters aren't affected by this. Neither are grapplers. Unless the only type of creatures you plan on making them fight are chargers, those boots are basically a gimmick.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    Miracles.





    Ahem. As others have said, they aren't quite as good as you're making them out to be, but are still quite useful. Your player found a cool toy, let him enjoy it a bit. You should have monsters charge him occasionally, even though there's plenty of ways around it, because part of a DM's job is playing to the PC's strengths and making them feel awesome from time to time. Don't fall into the me-vs-them trap of being frustrated by their victories and continually trying to negate any advantages they find, that'll just lead to hard feelings all around. Monsters are there to die, let them die. Just use a variety to keep them on their toes and keep the tension up.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    Ahem. As others have said, they aren't quite as good as you're making them out to be, but are still quite useful. Your player found a cool toy, let him enjoy it a bit. You should have monsters charge him occasionally, even though there's plenty of ways around it, because part of a DM's job is playing to the PC's strengths and making them feel awesome from time to time. Don't fall into the me-vs-them trap of being frustrated by their victories and continually trying to negate any advantages they find, that'll just lead to hard feelings all around. Monsters are there to die, let them die. Just use a variety to keep them on their toes and keep the tension up.
    This. Having some mooks charge the guy every now and again is great, and sometimes, even have it matter on the big fights. But if a player leans on that item like a crutch, you need to force him/her out of the comfort zone, by using enemies that don't charge, or use other tactics that make the charge less than useful.

    Grimlocks with reach weapons led by a sorceror with Obscuring Mist, for example.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    If you really want to nerf it, you could make it an immediate interrupt to activate the set against charge effect. It's still far more efficient than spending your turn readying it, but not as good as no action cost at all. Alternatively opportunity actions are fine as well.
    Agreed, this seems the most apt route of 'fixing' the boots, either as an immediate action or make it cost an attack of opportunity, so it becomes an expansion of said character's Karmic Strike/Robilar's Gambit.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Phaederkiel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    ooof.

    I do not know why so few people actually read my intent.

    I do want my players to have fun. I know that the opponents are there to die. I want to charge them, so they can strike back and feel good about it.

    i want, to quote myself:

    a way to make using them a tactical decision instead of an auto-do.
    As far as I see it, making it an immedieate to use the boots thems like the best option up to now. alas, this means only one charge per round can be answered.
    Or do you mean: an immedieate to activate against all charges this round?
    hmm, I do not yet know if I should give it a cost in AoOs, but its probably the way to go. Thank you, Seerow!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    I took a look over the boots, and short of changing how the boots themselves work, you can't make it a 'do I do this' thing. As long as the player is wielding a two-handed weapon, they auto-brace for charges. The most of a tactical decision the player will make is 'Do I wear {steadfast boots}, or something else?'

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    Morph Bark's Avatar

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    Don't Steadfast Boots allow you to just ready any weapon against a charge? I don't recall it being an auto-ready, so you still have to spend a standard action readying the weapon.

    EDIT: Read over it again, so I was wrong in my memory, but they can only set two-handed weapons against a charge this way. Perhaps somehow make using two-handers less effective? If they use Power Attack a lot you could use the tactical feat Elusive Target, negating the Power Attack damage bonus.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2011-12-14 at 05:59 AM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    As far as tactical thoughts go, the player should have plenty of tactical stuff to consider without having to worry about how to respond to charges when they happen. Do they stand with the rest of the party, or out in front to draw aggro? If the latter, how do they counter attacks which aren't charges?

    The furthest you might want to go with "do I want to attack this guy" is having a monster whom it would be disadvantageous to attack charge him. (One or another of the oozes, puddings, slimes etc., perhaps).

    And to allow her to get maximum mileage, you should really have some combat where a horde of enemies charges the entire party, and this character can look properly awesome while all about her are quaking in their not-so-steadfast-boots.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Steadfast boots, how do they work?

    Note that "two-handed weapon" is a melee designation. Holding a bow ready to fire is a great offensive tactic, but you'll lose the defensive advantage of the Steadfast Boots.

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