Brawn over Brain [D&D 3.5]

[kulosle]

So the idea is that I want to make a feat like Vow of Poverty, but instead of giving up money you give up the ability to cast spells/powers and spells/power like abilities. It may be just because its 4 in the morning but I'm stumped as to how I can make this work. Any thoughts?

[Deepbluediver]

I haven't read the rules for VoP in a while, but I thought that it wasn't just giving up money, it was giving up nearly EVERYTHING of value, which included the magic items that most players rely upon. The bonuses you get essentially make up for walking around effectively-naked.

I think there are too many classes that could give up spells/spell-like-abilities and not suffer much for it, so this would kind of become a no-brainer. IE, what would a fighter or rogue give up to take this feat?
It's hard to tell what you're thinking about though since you didn't write very much.

[starwoof]

To fit it in with the style of the other vow feats, and to make it somewhat less of a 'no duh' feat, I would suggest making it also restrict your use on spell-trigger items and other similar things. So you not only lose the ability to cast spells/power/whatever but now you can't even UMD a wand or trigger a magic ring. Perhaps it would even go so far as to restrict others casting beneficial spells on you, though I wouldn't go so far as to block them altogether.

[Morph Bark]

So prettymuch a "vow of mundanity", then? Or perhaps a "curse of mundanity". In the latter case you can add such stuff as wings or the like. Under my impression this would include spell trigger and spell completion items and the like, though you could expand it to any magic item that requires activation.

[bobthe6th]

how about a mechanic called the "mundanity score"

for each level in which you never cast a spell, you gain 3 points of mundanety per day. you can negate spells by spending mundanity points = to the spells level.

then a fighter has a reason to exist, and a rogue has a reason not to use UMD.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You might want to kick it up to not using magic items, either, as there's no reason NOT to take a feat like this if you're playing... well... anything that already doesn't cast spells.

[kulosle]

well part of the point is that anything that doesn't cast spells is vastly inferior to the classes that do. So yes it might become a no brainer to take, but that's like saying its a no brainer for non spellcasters to get UMD. I like the idea of getting wings. You'd need it to compensate for note being able to fly any other way. Yes this feat would restrict you from activating magical items. I hadn't thought about it but preventing beneficial spells sounds like a good idea. Something like the forsaker from 3.0. You have to make a save against helpful spells and if you succeed it has no affect and if you don't it still only has half affect. If the spell normally doesn't have a save then its a will save. This would also mean that the feat would need to give you fast healing at least 1. And it would probably give you a bonus against spells. Also UMD and UPD are always cross class

Thoughts of bonuses (obviously not all of them)
mind blank
non detection
some short distance dimensional door as a SU
fast healing
regeneration
some immunities
Bonus to saves against spells
Mettle

[Yitzi]

Here's my take on the core part of the relevant list (it should have other stuff too, as monsters suffer less from no magic than PCs do):

-Protection from {Alignment} (only those effects given by all 4 version)
-Death Ward
-Mind Blank
-Non-Detection
-Freedom of Movement (against magically created effects only)
-High SR. It applies even to SR: No spells, so long as they have noninstantaneous duration.
-At-will targeted dispel as a touch attack, or area dispel (centered on self) as a FRA.
-The ability to project an antimagic field.

[bobthe6th]

perhaps a couple self buff extrodinaries? like one or two from a list like (haste, bull's strength, cat's grace ect...)

[Yitzi]

I'd say only add that if he also loses the ability to use continuous magic items.

[Ziegander]

So... maybe just automatically give the VoP bonuses to any character that doesn't cast spells or use activated magic items? Casting a spell or activating a magic item causes a character to lose those bonuses for 24 hours?

So, a Fighter that runs around in magic full plate, swinging a flaming greatsword always has these bonuses.

A Wizard even has these bonuses until he casts his first spell in a day.

A Rogue usually has these bonuses until she UMDs a wand or something.

In this way, even just using VoP bonuses, they become fairly nice for non-casters. It wouldn't be unbalancing to add moar dakka on top of the VoP bonuses, but you wouldn't absolutely need to do that for free either.

As extras (on top of VoP bonuses) I like nondetection at low level, fast healing at mid-low level, exemption from divination effects at mid level (as in you don't show up when Scried and questions about you via Contact Other Plane or similar have no answers), regeneration at mid-high level, and mind blank at high level.

[kulosle]

So I think I should form a list of things that you would need to make up for not having magic and a list of what you should get as part of the feel of not having magic.

I like the idea of being able to dispel and make antimagic fields. I can't believe i forgot to include SR. Fast healing, even if its just 1, would be necessary. Regeneration would be really nice. I like the idea of just giving it the VoP affects, but maybe a few more/different things. I don't know how broken it would be if it ended up giving complete immunity to divination but that sounds great. I don't know if I'd want to give it death ward. This would need some resistances/DR.

Idea: this feat has to be taken at first level. You are a dead zone for magic. Magic doesn't work on you correctly and the stronger you get the greater your resistance to magic becomes. You can not voluntarily use magic, it just doesn't work when you try. When others try to use magic on you, even helpful magic, you must make a save to resist, if the spell normally doesn't have a save you make a fortitude or will save (haven't decided which) save. If you succeed you experience only half the affect, until you get mettle at which point you resist it entirely.

tentative list (SbL=Scale by Level)
-fast healing SbL
-SR SbL eventually applies to SR: No spells, so long as they have noninstantaneous duration.
-DR SbL
-non-detection
-energy resistance SbL
-Bonus to saves against spells SbL
-At-will targeted dispel as a touch attack, or area dispel (centered on self) as a FRA.
-The ability to project an antimagic field.
-Mind blank
-Mettle
-Fredom of movement
-Regeneration or regrow limb
-Immunity to Divination
-Slippery mind
-AC bonus (maybe Con to AC)

I'm a little iffy on the last one.

What do you guys think?