Choosing a System

[TheThan]

Well I decided to spoiler this for length

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I’m working on a new role playing game based around giant mecha. I’m basing this on the Zoids franchise. Specifically the Zoids: New Century Zero anime. Why you ask? Simple I really like the style of giant robots zoids are, and I like the idea of giant mecha combat becoming a spectator sport (think robot jox but cooler), which is basic premise of the anime. That, and a little bit of inspiration from the mecha thread over in media discussions, has inspired me quite a bit.

Now, this is all well and good but I have a bit of a problem. I haven’t even decided on a system to use for this game. I’ve progressed far enough that it’s time to decide on a system to use. Since I’m too low on cash to go out and buy one. I’m stuck with using what I have, which are D20 modern-future and BESM 3rd edition. I’m equally familiar with both systems.

Both of these systems support the use of mecha. Though they support it in different ways, BESM puts the emphasis on the players, but at the cost of a mechanically strong combat system (grid based movement rules etc). While D20 modern-future puts the emphasis on the mecha the characters are piloting (zoids in this case) and gives a strong combat systems; however it does not allow for a character centric system.

Let me see if I can explain. In BESM, two different characters can take out two identical mecha and you will see a strong difference between the two. That is because most of the mecha’s abilities are tied directly to the character. Now with D20 modern-future these two zoids are identical, they deal the same weapons damage have similar chances to hit (that being about the only real variable) etc. but they have a solid combat system.
Now my situation is that I cannot seem to decide which system to use. I like both systems and could easily adapt the zoids from the franchise to each system. So that is hardly an issue. I’m interested in what you guys think, which of these systems should I use?

TL;dr version: help me decide between BESM 3rd edition and D20 modern-future for a giant mecha game.

[Knaight]

Honestly, I'd search out free systems before using either of those. d6 Space is free, Fudge is free, so on and so forth. That said, BESM is probably the better of the two for Zoids.

[RedWarlock]

Just curious, have you looked at the BESM d20 rules? I have a copy of that from years back, but haven't really looked through it at length. It might bridge that middle gap you're looking at, with the strength of the d20 system for combat and the BESM system for character building. (although for all I know it could be the inverse..)

[joe]

I don't know that there is really any reason you couldn't use both systems. I would probably use the besm d20 as a base, but with the detailed class generator tool within it, figure out a way to throw the modern d20 classes in as well. Basically just work with what's best from both systems.

I know besm d20 has classes that would likely be less than useful for a mech style game (samurai, pet monster trainer, dynamic sorcerer) so you might want to rule classes that don't fall into the genre out, and use the Modern d20 classes to fill the gaps they leave.

You might have to tweak a few things, such as skills and maybe add defense scores to the besm classes, but try to have fun with it, and see what things would work best for the game you're trying to do.



Edit: I only looked at the tl;dr part before now, so I don't think I gave as strong an answer as you probably would've liked. I'm honestly not too familiar with the mecha rules of either system, so I don't know how helpful my advice will be after all.

[Raum]

TL;dr version: help me decide between BESM 3rd edition and D20 modern-future for a giant mecha game.

If you have one, a Supers system is a good way of representing mechs. Given the two you mentioned, I'd go with BESM. It's already targeted towards anime/manga.

[RedWarlock]

Well, I'll add specifically that BESM d20 includes breakdowns of the d20 modern hero classes and D&D base classes using the BESM points system. It's probably as good a system, using that base, as I've seen, though I've not heard much beyond that.

[Tyndmyr]

TL;dr version: help me decide between BESM 3rd edition and D20 modern-future for a giant mecha game.

I'm not familiar with BESM, but D20 M's mecha rules are horrible.

For instance, it's often rather more efficient to buy an equally damaging man portable gun than to buy a mecha version of same. Mech's mostly end up being ablative hp.

Also, the wealth system is broken as all hell.

[TheThan]

Just curious, have you looked at the BESM d20 rules? I have a copy of that from years back, but haven't really looked through it at length. It might bridge that middle gap you're looking at, with the strength of the d20 system for combat and the BESM system for character building. (although for all I know it could be the inverse..)

Yeah I looked at it years ago, it’s well I felt it was horrible done. Besides I don’t have access to it anyway.

Yeah, I’m looking at D20 modern-future primarily because it does both mecha and has a solid combat system.

I'm not familiar with BESM, but D20 M's mecha rules are horrible.

For instance, it's often rather more efficient to buy an equally damaging man portable gun than to buy a mecha version of same. Mech's mostly end up being ablative hp.

Also, the wealth system is broken as all hell.

Yeah but that’s nothing I can’t fix via DM fiat.

I don't know that there is really any reason you couldn't use both systems. I would probably use the besm d20 as a base, but with the detailed class generator tool within it, figure out a way to throw the modern d20 classes in as well. Basically just work with what's best from both systems.

I’m thinking this might be a good idea. I might be able to add in the sort of combat system I want.

[Tyndmyr]

Yeah but that’s nothing I can’t fix via DM fiat.

Look, when I say "broken as hell", I mean, it's sufficiently broken that you have to throw away the entire system and get a new one. The wealth system does not survive sustained use. And the mech system basically doesn't simulate much that's useful. The mech is literally ablative hit points for you and a list of mounting points that you slap guns on. None of the guns are at all balanced against each other, and variety within any given tech level is minimal. Localized damage is not a thing.

It's not a good system at all, and DM fiat does not make it so.

[TheThan]

Aside from experience, winning a match will earn the players a purse, aka prize money. the wealth system does not support this sort of set up.

So I was heavily considering throwing out the standard wealth system anyway. So the wealth system wouldn’t really be a problem. However I see what you’re saying about the mecha themselves, that could very well be a problem.