OOTS #824 - The Discussion Thread

[deuxhero]

I'm going to guess

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Redcloak leaked it to stay in the city longer

[Peelee]

I'm not rooting for this but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that's exactly what happens.

Also, is the pink haired elf both casting and using a sword and shield?

Oh and I just noticed. Not only did the Resistance not take a single casualty, it looks like they didn't take a single wound. No XP for them. :)

Wait, you have to take damage to get XP now?

[Giggling Ghast]

I see a flaw in this plan.

A flaw called "Speak with Dead".

[One Skunk Todd]

It's the third page of discussion, time to ask silly questions about insignificant details.

I can't figure out what kind of sword the dark-skinned elf is using in his main hand. It's not a scimitar because it isn't curved, it's probably not a longsword because Rich draws them differently (look at Nale's sword for example), and it's too thick to be a rapier even though it has a handguard.

A main gauche maybe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrying_dagger

[Cranica]

Wait, you have to take damage to get XP now?

I think Skunk just means the Resistance must dramatically outlevel them to win so easily.

[Agnostik]

A main gauche maybe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrying_dagger

Hmm, but it is usually employed in the off-hand, so that would only work if he's a leftie and the shortsword in the other hand is the main-hand weapon.

Or it could just be an elven-style longsword or something.

[One Skunk Todd]

Wait, you have to take damage to get XP now?

I was thinking the Resistance fighters were experienced enough so as not to get any XP fighting the low level hobbos.

[Fish]

If they can't destroy the phylactery they can always

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...hide it again. That'd keep the hobbos occupied. I strongly suspect that's what they've been doing. It would certainly explain how the resistance knew it was discovered; hide the bauble and camp the hiding place. The resistance could thin out the occupation force a few at a time.

[One Skunk Todd]

I think Skunk just means the Resistance must dramatically outlevel them to win so easily.

Exactly, thank you. :)

[LudiDrizzt]

Perhaps the Elves have their own agenda regarding Xykon. By hiding his phylactery somewhere that would assure its destruction if left unattended, they could possibly channel him towards beneficial gains for themselves. Such as having him force the Goblins out of Azure City, or even sending him against the ever-growing Empire of Blood directly to the south of their mountains.

Surely the Elven lands are not merely coincidentally located just north of the newly-famed antagonist Tarquin.

[B.I.T.T.]

Doombaby? That's hillarious.

Doombaby: Goo. Gaa. I will teeth upon your bones.

Paladin: *swipe* Yoinketh!

Doombaby: Noooo I will have my vengence. Waaaah.

[Dracarot]

Apocalypse candy? Bah! There nothing compared to Ragnarock bars!

[Anarion]

Hmm, but it is usually employed in the off-hand, so that would only work if he's a leftie and the shortsword in the other hand is the main-hand weapon.

Or it could just be an elven-style longsword or something.

Just looking at the weapons available on the SRD, it probably follows the rules for longswords, even though the shape and handguard makes me want to call it a saber instead. My guess is the customized look implies that its a magical elven longsword, rather than a regular, run-of-the-mill longsword.

[Ellen]

Just to say it -

While a Paladin may object to stealing from a baby, any decent nanny, babysitter, or parent knows all the reasons you might want to take something away from a baby that the baby is trying to eat (rots their teeth, potential choking hazard, where was this thing before the baby grabbed it and how many germs did it pick up? how close is it to meal time? and do you really want this baby on a sugar high?).

[Wrecan]

With all the goblins in the sewers and ocean looking for the phylactery, there aren't a lot of hobgoblins wandering around the city itself. The resistance is probably aware of when the shift changes occur and how many people are supposed to be guarding the palace or the prison, etc. So the resistance doesn't have to watch all the hobgoblins. It just needs to watch the city for hobgoblin teams who aren't where they are supposed to be.

Though I do like the idea of the Resistance finding the phylactery first and using it as bait to separate hobgoblin squads and kill them. I just don't find that likely. What they should do is simply have the white-haired Peregrine elf teleport it out to Hinjo for safe-keeping.

[Ninja Dragon]

Wow, really did not see that coming.

It seems Hinjo and Roy had this planned better than we thought. If the resistance manages to hide the phylactery far from Azure City, Xykon will keep looking for it forever, and will never go to Girard's Gate. Or maybe they could even find a way to destroy it...

On the other hand, this can't end so easily, so I espect the resistance to run into some trouble. Maybe they run into Xykon/Redcloack next chapter, or maybe the phylactery is recovered later, so Tarquin can shine for some more time.

It's time for team evil to show why they are the main villains of this comic.

[EccentricFellow]

Oh good. Without this turn of events the search seemed to lack a certain amount of drama. Good to see the bad guys can get thorns in their side just as annoyingly as the good guys.

Cheers and Happy New Year everyone. :)

[brionl]

Dang, now I want some Apocalypse Candy...

[Nephrahim]

I'm going to guess

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Redcloak leaked it to stay in the city longer

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I'd actually be pretty surprised if Redcloak doesn't WANT out of the city. The longer they stay, the more likely Xylon is to just burn it down. With a proper leader and everything, he must be ready to leave.

[the_tick_rules]

poor xykon, more delays.

[Dracarot]

Also, is the pink haired elf both casting and using a sword and shield?

There's a few possibilities here.

1. She's a dual class fighter/wizard (common among elves) and seeing as the spell gave no visible reaction the spell either a. failed (due to armor penalties) or b could be a buff spell.

2. She's a dual class fighter/cleric and that was some kind of divine buff spell.

3. There is a slim chance it is she's a druid as I recall Druids of Mielliki could wear metal armor (so long as a ranger can wear it) so it could again be a divine buff spell (it would also work with a fighter druid combo as mentioned above).

4. She could be a psychic warrior, and that "spell" was one of her psionic powers being called into action.

Any one of these theories could be true, though I'm leaning towards 2 and 4.

[wzeller]

I see a flaw in this plan.

A flaw called "Speak with Dead".

I see a flaw in your flaw. All anybody will know is that the resistance wiped out a search party.

They might do this from time to time even without the phylactery being found, just to thin the herds, or they might not.

If they do, then there's nothing special-seeming about the event and nobody would bother to Speak With Dead.

If they don't, then it may raise some suspicion. But the search party was pretty big, and it's very possible (probable?) that the conversation they were having about rewards started immediately upon finding it, before the rest of group was told they could stop searching because it had been found. So you've got a large group of hobs, most of which know nothing about why they were attacked, and there's no clue pointing to which of them might have that information. So you Speak With Dead and get, "I dunno! They just came out of nowhere and killed us all for no apparent reason!" And you cast it again and get, "I was swimming under the water and all of a sudden there was sword in my back!" and you cast it again and get, "Huh?"

Or it could go the other way. Maybe the whole group had already been told it was found and by who. Then a single Speak With Dead solves the mystery.

But the point is that Rich can take it either way, both with completely sound logic behind his decision.

Speak With Dead is only a problem for Team-Not-Xykon if Rich wants it to be. If it isn't a problem, then people will be complaining about it. But on the other hand, if somebody comes in and Speaks With Dead in the next comic then there will be lots of people in this forum throwing around the terms "Diabolus Ex Machina" and "Deus ex Machina" even though they don't know what those words mean.

Either way, people will be pointlessly irritated by what they perceive as a flaw in the comic but which is really just a flaw in their brain.

[Moblin]

If the resistance do get away with this theft, I doubt they'll be keeping the phylactry for long - The Elves are unlikely to see the caves beneath Azure city as somewhere it can be kept safe from Xykon, and for the Azurites it's a dangerous object that might draw Xykon down upon their base (which he might even know the location of all along, in his 'don't confuse not caring for not knowing' style). I can see the Phylacatry making a journey toward Elven lands if Xykon doesn't re-take it very quickly indeed, which might lead to Xykon following it rather then making an immediate grab for Girard's gate himself.

Mind you, that's still an 'if' at this stage. For all we know, Xykon might just teleport in to grab it at the next update.

[One Skunk Todd]

There's a few possibilities here.

1. She's a dual class wizard fighter/wizard (common among elves) and seeing as the spell gave no visible reaction the spell either a. failed (due to armor penalties) or b could be a buff spell.

2. She's a dual class fighter/cleric and that was some kind of divine buff spell.

3. There is a slim chance it is she's a druid as I recall Druids of Mielliki could wear metal armor (so long as a ranger can wear it) so it could again be a divine buff spell (it would also work with a fighter druid combo as mentioned above).

4. She could be a psychic warrior, and that "spell" was one of her psionic powers being called into action.

Any one of these theories could be true, though I'm leaning towards 2 and 4.

Thanks, I'm just barely familiar enough with the rules to realize it was slightly out of the mainstream, but not familiar enough to know what all the possibilities were.

[Kish]

Just to say it -

While a Paladin may object to stealing from a baby, any decent nanny, babysitter, or parent knows all the reasons you might want to take something away from a baby that the baby is trying to eat (rots their teeth, potential choking hazard, where was this thing before the baby grabbed it and how many germs did it pick up? how close is it to meal time? and do you really want this baby on a sugar high?).

At which point, Thanh's objection to the analogy becomes, "We did not grab the phylactery for the benefit of the hobgoblins we took it from!"

[rewinn]

The Resistence should drop the ring of power phylactery into the volcano Rift, unless they suspect that ....

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... Xykon's waiting at the Rift, probably invisible, to catch whoever does just that!

[Peelee]

I think Skunk just means the Resistance must dramatically outlevel them to win so easily.

I was thinking the Resistance fighters were experienced enough so as not to get any XP fighting the low level hobbos.

Aha. Though it could be argued that the hobbos had just finished with their generic sewer-dungeon, since they still have visible damage on pretty much everyone but the cleric. I take the point, though.

I see a flaw in this plan.

A flaw called "Speak with Dead".

Hasn't the resistance been waging guerilla warfare like this for months? Unless casting Speak with Dead is standard operating procedure, there's not much reason to believe they would cast it in this instance either. And if it IS SOP, there are likely very specific questions they ask every time, so the likelihood they would ask anything phylactery-related is pretty low, I'd imagine. Not nonexistant, just low.

[brionl]

I'm not rooting for this but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that's exactly what happens.

Also, is the pink haired elf both casting and using a sword and shield?

Oh and I just noticed. Not only did the Resistance not take a single casualty, it looks like they didn't take a single wound. No XP for them. :)

The CR of the hobgoblins is too low. They're probably only getting roleplaying XP and story bonus XP.

[SamBurke]

"Holy stick in the mud"

O CHUL RULES THE WORLD!

[Kish]

There's a few possibilities here.

1. She's a dual class fighter/wizard (common among elves) and seeing as the spell gave no visible reaction the spell either a. failed (due to armor penalties) or b could be a buff spell.

2. She's a dual class fighter/cleric and that was some kind of divine buff spell.

3. There is a slim chance it is she's a druid as I recall Druids of Mielliki could wear metal armor (so long as a ranger can wear it) so it could again be a divine buff spell (it would also work with a fighter druid combo as mentioned above).

4. She could be a psychic warrior, and that "spell" was one of her psionic powers being called into action.

Any one of these theories could be true, though I'm leaning towards 2 and 4.

5. She's a single-classed cleric; as an elf she is automatically proficient in long swords, rapiers, and long and short bows (which pushes elves toward classes that don't get proficiency in martial weapons as a class feature, such as wizard, sorcerer, and cleric).

Also, while casting Speak With Dead on random wiped-out patrols is unlikely, casting Tsukiko's Amazing Wight-Making Spell on them is much more likely to be standard operating procedure, resulting in a bunch of wights who remember the phylactery being stolen from them when they were hobgoblins.