The Magic User - A New Look [D&D 3.5, System Musings & Base Class]

[DerTollUdo]

That does pose an issue, RedWarlock.

Hmmm. The way Ziegander put it would work, but it imposes another level of complexity to something we are trying to simplify...

How about you use the highest lvl class, or in case of a tie just the highest hit die? Does that seem balanced?

[Shadow Lord]

Is it possible to create Permenant Undead using this system?

[Ziegander]

How about you use the highest lvl class, or in case of a tie just the highest hit die? Does that seem balanced?

Not particularly. That would mean that a Rogue 10/Barbarian 10 would be healed 20d12 when a Fighter 20 would only be healed 20d10. Doesn't seem very fair when the Fighter's almost surely got more hit points. I don't see what's that complicated about using the biggest, most recent hit dice first and healing the oldest, smallest hit dice last.

Is it possible to create Permenant Undead using this system?

Oh yes, you just can't permanently control those Undead. the Create Undead spells create permanent Undead, you just lose control over them if you sleep. Even Raise Skeleton can create a permanent Skeleton if you're willing to raise something too big for you to control.

[Shadow Lord]

Ah. That makes it a bit difficult to set up a minionmancer, doesn't it?

What happens if you are from a race or type that doesn't sleep.

[Ziegander]

Ah. That makes it a bit difficult to set up a minionmancer, doesn't it?

It's part of the point. The spells are powerful enough without using them create permanent armies of controlled Undead. If it worked any other way you could just cast it, go to sleep and get your SP back, keep the minion, and then make another one ad infinitum. Which would get broken very, very fast.

What happens if you are from a race or type that doesn't sleep.

I still have to fine tune the mechanics as I've said elsewhere, but suffice it to say, an Extended Rest isn't always 8 hours of sleep, but it is for most creatures. If you don't sleep you must still rest for a certain period of time and during that time you will still lose control of any controlled Undead.

[DerTollUdo]

Not particularly. That would mean that a Rogue 10/Barbarian 10 would be healed 20d12 when a Fighter 20 would only be healed 20d10. Doesn't seem very fair when the Fighter's almost surely got more hit points. I don't see what's that complicated about using the biggest, most recent hit dice first and healing the oldest, smallest hit dice last.

It becomes awkward and clunky when someone multiclasses more than just once. What happens if they stagger their leveling across more than 2 classes? 1dX+1dX+1dX+1dX etc? Seems like instead of streamlining healing that would slow it down.

Maybe make it heal half of the HD as the highest and half as the lowest? Then your example would become: 10D12+10D6+con*20=max 180+20*con. 20D10+20*con=max 200+20*con.

Also, why would a rogue split with barb? Doesn't make sense lol...and that's ignoring the fact that fighter 20 is silly :P

[EdroGrimshell]

It's part of the point. The spells are powerful enough without using them create permanent armies of controlled Undead. If it worked any other way you could just cast it, go to sleep and get your SP back, keep the minion, and then make another one ad infinitum. Which would get broken very, very fast.

Plus you could use incantations for that. Makes some sense to have a longer, more arduous ritual to create permanent undead in this system. And controlling them would be more the problem, since creating the undead would already be pretty lengthy, adding in the control component would only make it more difficult and likely to fail. So a spell to control the created undead mixed with the animating incantation would, while making it a much harder task, make it a bit more realistic.

[DerTollUdo]

So has any new progress been made here?