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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    As seen in strip 829, it seems likely that the cat is indeed out of the bag. Presumably Wrong-eye will wait and draw her out a little more to see if she truly is aware of what's going on. There's room for a hilarious misunderstanding here, of course.

    But presumably it has already occurred to Wrong-eye that it may be necessary, in the next few strips, to silence Tsukiko NOW. Not later. Now. Immediately.

    As a secondary objective, how does he do it in such a way that he can explain to Xykon what's happened?

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

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    Daemon

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    May I present the "made my saving throw" fight. Many of these spells could mop up Tsukiko with no evidence of her (destruction, disintegrate, plane shift). Besides have you seen Xykon's memory?

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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    I dont know how he'd kill her, but if I were Redcloak I'd plant a fake phylactery on her afterward. Even if Xykon isnt fooled by it, it should get him wondering why she HAS a fake phylactery in her possesion.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Remove the possibility for her to run away. Take control of her wights, then laugh as they level drain her to the death. Tell Xykon that one of the Resistance guys did it, he'd probably find that hilarious. Oh, and dispose of the body with some nice spell.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by SennenScale View Post
    I dont know how he'd kill her, but if I were Redcloak I'd plant a fake phylactery on her afterward. Even if Xykon isnt fooled by it, it should get him wondering why she HAS a fake phylactery in her possesion.
    Fake? He's got the real one. As far as Xykon knows, everybody is still searching for it.

    All he has to do is tell Xykon that Tsukiko found the rebel base, killed the rebels, and took the phylactery for herself in order to manipulate/control Xykon, and Redcloak stopped her, permanently.

    Then just to ensure silence, a quick Trap The Soul on her body followed by tossing the soulgem into the Snarl's portal should fix any chance of anyone being around to contradict him.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    As far as I'm concerned the question is if he can prevent her from escaping, not if he can kill her. What kinds of escapes could she have and does Redcloak have ways to prevent them?

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Word of Recall is probably her best bet for escaping. Dimensional Anchor might stop it though.
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    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Word of Recall is a sixth-level cleric spell, more powerful than Tsukiko has ever demonstrated having access to.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    true, but if Redcloak's gone up, no reason to not expect Tsukiko has as well.
    Minister of sarcasm and pragmatism of the Grayview fanclub.

    No, none of us were altering the unimutable laws of physics. That would be wrong.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    tongue Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    I'd stab her. What? I'd never go spellcaster without a bit of ranger thrown in.

    Redcloak should Control the undead, command the undead, and then dance around casting 7th level spells as Tsukiko dies, since even if shes immune to the level draining, she still gets pounced on by a couple hungry wights.
    Can only thank GitP for being so good for so long.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Would Tsukiko really reveal that she knows that the Snarl is uncontrollable if she didn't think that she could take Redcloak?
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    So many options...

    - Flesh to Stone+Shatter
    - Harm+Rebuke Undead (and let her wrights finish her off)
    - Destruction
    - good old Disintegration

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Word of Recall is a sixth-level cleric spell, more powerful than Tsukiko has ever demonstrated having access to.
    There is also a very fun cleric spell called "Forbiddance", which prevents all extraplanar travel within a certain radius of an altar to a God. Summoning, teleportation, everything fails. It's only 4th level.

    Redcloak appeared OUTSIDE his study and not INSIDE.

    I suspect Tsukiko is going to find it interesting if she tries to Teleport out.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erts View Post
    Would Tsukiko really reveal that she knows that the Snarl is uncontrollable if she didn't think that she could take Redcloak?
    I think she's also deluded herself into believing Xykon would protect her. Fangirls, eh?

    As for covering it up, Redcloak could always blame it on the elves. Or wait until Team Evil are near their next gate and push her into a trap.
    Last edited by TheBST; 2012-01-22 at 11:16 AM.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    There really is no reason to muck around with a complicated plan, when a simple Destruction to the face should be more than enough to solve Redcloak's problems.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    I'd tell her. "You know, I underwent the rituals to officially join the hobgoblins. [Wa-a-a-ay back in 149]. If you really loved the undead as much as I love the hobgoblins, you'd join them. What would you like me to raise you as?"

    Then I'd nonchalantly wait for her to kill herself.

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    He could always just implode her, that would be easy enough. It's pretty clear that Redcloak overpowers just about everyone else in the story, probably even Xykon. He could kill Tsukiko anyway he wanted; there's not much the little necromancer can do.
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eruantion View Post
    He could always just implode her, that would be easy enough. It's pretty clear that Redcloak overpowers just about everyone else in the story, probably even Xykon. He could kill Tsukiko anyway he wanted; there's not much the little necromancer can do.
    Redcloak is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay lower level than Xykon, he's 17th (I think I've read, I don't know the 3.5 D&D rules myself) whereas X is Epic. As can be shown by the fact that it's X who gives the orders. Also presumably than Serini or Girard Draketooth, if they're still alive. And he probably used all his implode spells against the resistance.

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    I have always thought of Redcloak as Lawful Evil (not sure if this has been confirmed), but if so, I would cast Dictum (7th) or Hold Person (2nd), then Harm (6th), followed by Slay Living (5th).

    Odds are pretty good Tsukiko would be dead by then. If she's nonlwaful, she gets no save against Dictum, Hold Person has a will save to negate (which she might overcome), Harm has a will save to do half (75 damage might be enough to bring her down to 1, though). Slay Living would finish her off, as even a successful save does 3d6+(caster level) in damage.

    If anything is taken out, it would be Dictum/Hold Person. With a possible surprise round, that would be enough to take her down in 1 or 2 rounds.

    Anyone see something here that I'm missing? I am aware Tsukiko probably has a good will save, but apart from that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylphy View Post
    He's a WITCH!!! BURN HIM!!!
    Wait! We should make sure that he's a witch before burning him. Do you know if he weighs the same as a duck?
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  20. - Top - End - #20
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    I don't think Xykon would buy Tsukiko's disappearence, so I don't think redcloak will try it. even if redcloak kill tsukiko, xykon would ask that she is resurrected (she is a resource well worth 25k gold in diamonds). redcloak has access to true resurrection now, so "there is no body left" is not going to work.

    Anyway, if I were redcloak and had to kill tsukiko, i'd start with a con-based save or die. tsukiko's con sucks, it's likely to work. Maybe i'll used destruction and/or disintegrate. she is low on hp, and so even iof she succeeds the saves (maybe he buffed them) she's going to die for shortage of hp

    EDIT: this strategy has a good cchance of ending the enounter immediately, but if tsukiko survives, redcloak is in the middle of the whights, and will get level drained very soon.
    the safest chance would be to cast death ward on himself. that would make him imune to the whigths. tsukiko don't have high level slots, so she can't do anything to redcloak that he can't heal. however, this strategy would not prevent tsukiko from escaping.
    Last edited by King of Nowhere; 2012-01-22 at 01:15 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eruantion View Post
    He could always just implode her, that would be easy enough. It's pretty clear that Redcloak overpowers just about everyone else in the story, probably even Xykon. He could kill Tsukiko anyway he wanted; there's not much the little necromancer can do.
    Xykon has at least ten levels on Redcloak, RC would be no match for Xykon in a straight-up fight. He'd be unlikely to even land a spell against Xykon's probably astronomical saves, especially since Xykon could pop a Superb Dispelling -> Maximized Energy Drain and pop eight levels off him right then. Also, unless Redcloak has 28+ Wisdom, he can't Implode again until he rests (he used Implosion and [probably] Summon Monster IX already against the resistance.

    I have always thought of Redcloak as Lawful Evil (not sure if this has been confirmed)
    It is, since he's clearly Evil and has the Law domain.
    Last edited by Cranica; 2012-01-22 at 01:16 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    I would kill Tsukiko, and then figure out what to tell Mr X later.

    It's a gut reaction thing.

  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forealms View Post
    Anyone see something here that I'm missing? I am aware Tsukiko probably has a good will save, but apart from that?
    However many wights are in the room wouldn't be affected by anything you've mentioned. They'd presumably attack Redcloak immediately, and negative levels are quite thoroughly inconvenient for Redcloak.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Guys, you are reaaaaaaaly overestimating the power of Wights. They're CR 3. They have a +3 attack bonus and one attack per round, and there are what, three of them?

    Assuming Redcloak is wearing any armor at all, they will not hit him except on a Natural 20. He's a level 17 Cleric, minimum, Clerics usually wear at least some armor Plus he is straight out of a combat where he likely pre-buffed himself, some of those buffs are likely still active.

    Even assuming he has nothing but 8th level slots left, that's better than anything Tsukiko can muster by several times. If this comes to a fight, the only question is whether Tsukiko manages to escape the room or warn someone before dying, not who wins.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Redcloak used all of his 8th and 9th spells in the fight.

    And RC could just gain control of all of T's undead minions. He's a high level cleric, she's a low level one. Mystic T levels don't add to their general Cleric abilities, only their spells.
    Last edited by Dark Matter; 2012-01-22 at 02:26 PM.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Matter View Post
    Redcloak used all of his 8th and 9th spells in the fight.
    I only recall seeing one 9th level spell, unless of course we're assuming he used Gate to get the devils.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
    Fake? He's got the real one. As far as Xykon knows, everybody is still searching for it.

    All he has to do is tell Xykon that Tsukiko found the rebel base, killed the rebels, and took the phylactery for herself in order to manipulate/control Xykon, and Redcloak stopped her, permanently.

    Then just to ensure silence, a quick Trap The Soul on her body followed by tossing the soulgem into the Snarl's portal should fix any chance of anyone being around to contradict him.
    If he actually wants Xykon to get the thing back. Which I'm betting he doesn't.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by LudiDrizzt View Post
    I only recall seeing one 9th level spell, unless of course we're assuming he used Gate to get the devils.
    Redcloak is 17th level, ergo he's got 2+1 8th level slots and 1+1 9th.

    The spells he used were:

    9th: Implosion (domain slot)
    8th: Earthquake (domain slot)
    8th: Planar Ally, Greater (Horned Devil #1)
    8th: Planar Ally, Greater (Horned Devil #2)
    8th: Summon Monster 8 (Greater Elemental)

    He cast one too many level 8 spells, so presumably the other 9th slot was "Extended Summon Monster 8 (Greater Elemental)".

    Edit: This assumes it was a "Greater" Elemental... but it looked too big to be "Huge".
    Last edited by Dark Matter; 2012-01-22 at 04:15 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Matter View Post
    Redcloak is 17th level, ergo he's got 2+1 8th level slots and 1+1 9th.

    The spells he used were:

    9th: Implosion (domain slot)
    8th: Earthquake (domain slot)
    8th: Planar Ally, Greater (Horned Devil #1)
    8th: Planar Ally, Greater (Horned Devil #2)
    8th: Summon Monster 8 (Greater Elemental)

    He cast one too many level 8 spells, so presumably the other 9th slot was "Extended Summon Monster 8 (Greater Elemental)".

    Edit: This assumes it was a "Greater" Elemental... but it looked too big to be "Huge".
    You're ignoring bonus spells, and Planar Ally has a duration measured in days. He could have summoned them a while ago.

  30. - Top - End - #30
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    Ancalagon's Avatar

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    Default Re: How would you, as Wrong-eye, kill Tsukiko?

    Tsukiko only has a d4 for hits. So it probably does not reallly require level 8 or level 9 spells to quickly kill her.

    Even if she is level 15ish she only had like ~50 HPs.

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