Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 74
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flame of Anor's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Gender
    Male

    Default The Future of the Edition War

    Disclaimer: This is not a battlefield on which to fight the Edition War. Anyone who doesn't seem to be making a good faith effort to follow this rule will be subjected to the most severe smallannoyed, smallmad, or even smallfurious faces.


    The true purpose of the thread is this: to discuss where the editions' factions will go from here. Back in the day, if TSR put out a new edition, you generally would change over. But 4th Edition was so unappealing to some players that that changed. Now D&D is factionalized.

    Will the 3.x faction slowly die out? Will they perhaps skip 4e and jump to 5e, rather like many users of Windows XP are skipping Vista and making the shift to Windows 7?

    Will the factionalization remain and grow? Will we have the 3.x faction, the 4e faction, and the 5e faction? Then, in ten years, the 3.x faction, the 4e faction, the 5e faction, the 2nd-Edition-of-5e:-Electric-Boogaloo faction, the 5.3.x faction, and the Beholders-'N'-Bustiers faction?

    Will the factionalization remain only with 3.x? Many players are distrustful of the commercialization and simplification of D&D as shown by 4e. If that continues with 5e, we could see two distinct factions emerge: the 3.x classicists, and the We'll-play-whatever-they're-currently-releasing-content-for faction.


    What does the Playground think? Keep it nice, guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Attempting to use Iron Heart Surge can often lead to the player removing the 'not being beaten upside the head' condition.
    avatar by me. Extended sig here.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Who can resist a cheap shot?

    EDIT:
    Partisanship along the lines of game edition preference is laughable in the first place. I doubt that the digs and snide backhands that blow up into edition wars have anywhere near as much to do with the game systems in question as they do with personal traits of the people making those comments. Even comparing 4e and OD&D, the game hasn't changed much beyond its expanding mechanical complexity.

    People just really like to fight over this stuff.
    Last edited by Manateee; 2012-01-24 at 01:20 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Mordokai's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    People are still playing AD&D and it's been what, twenty years? More?

    I foresee the trend will keep up. That is to say, some people will continue playing 3.5, some will move on. Some will be able to accept it, some won't. Personally, I intend to stay with 3.5, since I consider it a waste of money to buy a new set of books if they will continue chuggin' out new edition every couple of years. I've learned to love 4E and I believe, with time, I will be able to claim the same for 5E, unless it's really unappealing. But I don't intend to spend a stinkin' dime on a new edition for books or any other material.
    Adrie, half elven bard. Drawing by Vulion, avatar by CheesePirate. Colored version by Callos_DeTerran. Thanks a lot, you guys.
    This place is not a place of honor…no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here… nothing valued is here.
    "There will come a day so dark you will pray for death. On that day your prayers will be answered."
    Book of shadows, book of night, wake the beast and banish light.

  4. - Top - End - #4

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    There are still TSR-era D&D fans. The reason the 3.5/4e split is so pronounced is because
    WotC made an active effort to make the 2e => 3e change relatively minor, and then made a huge leap with 4th. Many of the people who liked all that D&D was before rebelled at what's basically a completely different game. For comparison, while many 4e fans dislike Essentials, I don't recall ever seeing a flame war on the topic.

    Further edition wars will depend entirely on continuity. If my hunch is correct and 5e winds up building from 3.5's design space, the 3.5 community will start to filter over as more content is produced. If 5e is a whole new thing, prepare for more factionalization. I doubt you'll get as much vitriol as you did when the 3.5 line was cut off, but edition wars are based on how much of the old user base you can keep happy.

    Whether keeping old fans happy - as opposed to making the game welcoming for new blood - is in the best interest of the game/hobby as a whole remains to be seen.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    I think that I have all the rules that I'll need to play D&D between teh books I already have and homebrew. I might consider good books of relatively rules-independent fluff or interesting new settings, but I rather doubt we'll see many of those. And I'm pretty happy with the rules for 3.5 as they are.

    If I am to learn a new system, I'd rather learn one that is thematically different from D&D. I've started to look into WoD and Shadowrun recently (those are the only locally played games), and FATE is also a system I like very much.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2012-01-24 at 03:10 AM.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    During the last edition war I decided to read more games. One that were designed with different aims and paradigms to D&D.

    From here I will continue to seek out games that match the play experiences that I want. The new D&D may be what I want but based on D&D's past and current player expectations it probably won't be.
    Last edited by Totally Guy; 2012-01-24 at 03:39 AM.
    Attempting to say controversial things that everyone will agree with.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flame of Anor's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    There are still TSR-era D&D fans. The reason the 3.5/4e split is so pronounced is because
    WotC made an active effort to make the 2e => 3e change relatively minor, and then made a huge leap with 4th. Many of the people who liked all that D&D was before rebelled at what's basically a completely different game. For comparison, while many 4e fans dislike Essentials, I don't recall ever seeing a flame war on the topic.
    Yeah...I've always said that they should call 4e "D&D 2nd Edition", as 3.x is technically AD&D 3.x, and "4e" is less "Advanced" in terms of complicated rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Attempting to use Iron Heart Surge can often lead to the player removing the 'not being beaten upside the head' condition.
    avatar by me. Extended sig here.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Leolo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    It simple depends on the content of the game and how the community likes it. We don't know anything about this now. And please don't make the fault in believing the current marketing phrases like "oh it's so old school", "sure we want to listen you"

    Not even the designers currently know how it will look like in the end.

    So it is simple too early simple to discuss this.

    I do hope that the last edition war has got enough people to the conclusion that it is better to read the books first, and judge them by what is actually written in it. But in the end it does not matter, 5e just has to be a good game to find it's players.
    Last edited by Leolo; 2012-01-24 at 03:46 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Quote Originally Posted by Leolo View Post
    I do hope that the last edition war has got enough people to the conclusion that it is better to read the books first, and judge them by what is actually written in it. But in the end it does not matter, 5e just has to be a good game to find it's players.
    You're right but I'd go one step further. Participants also need to judge the game they prefer by only what is written in the book. People make all kinds of additions and omissions but those parts comes from them and not from the game.
    Attempting to say controversial things that everyone will agree with.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    For comparison, while many 4e fans dislike Essentials, I don't recall ever seeing a flame war on the topic.
    Oh, there have been a few, especially on the WOTC forums.


    The main question here is, what will 5E be like? It can't seriously be like everybody's favorite edition all at the same time, like marketing suggests. If it mostly resembles 3E (which I doubt) then I expect most 3E players to switch, and most PF players to stay where they are. If it mostly resembles 4E, then I expect most 4.4 players and players who use all of 4E to switch, and most 4.0-only players to stay where they are. If it resembles neither, then it would be mostly aimed at new players, and I expect a lot of existing players will try it for a bit and stick with their favorite.

    Columns suggest that the most recent 4E books are in fact a try-out for fifth edition, just like how the last 3E books (tome of battle, mostly) was in fact a try-out for fourth.

    $.02
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    The D&D fanbase has been factionalized from the very first time there was a 2nd printing of D&D. Woodgrained box to White Box. Seriously. I don't see that changing as there are still lots of people who say that the Little Brown Books are the perfect and original incarnation of the game and all others are heresy, and there's a group like that for every single variation on the game. There are few, relatively speaking, who take each edition on its own merits and use them for what they do best each.

    As for 5th edition, I'm honestly curious. It really seems, at first blush, that WOTC is reaching out a hand, again, to the old school crowd, those that stuck with AD&D, and is sort of, kind of, apologizing for spending along time essentially insulting them. Yes, we know there's a hook in that bait (they want us friendlier so that we might look over at their new edition, too), but it's really a nice change from "those old games were unfun and unplayable and this new version is just da bomb!" so there are at least a few who are interested in looking it over with a more charitable view this time round. Including me.

    In terms of edition wars, I foresee some pretty nasty fights, but can't tell where the battle lines will be drawn until more info is leaked out. It really depends on the shape of things to come. Especially since, from what little I've seen, it seems that Monte and the design crew are making some effort to cast a broader net over the fan base this time as they very significantly limited themselves in 4e. They're trying to bring the fans home again from Pathfinder, OSRIC, and the like. It remains to be seen just how successful they are.
    It doesn't matter what game you're playing as long as you're having fun.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Banned
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    There is an elements of WOTC being brought down in a sense. Made more humble.

    It was like "PFF yeah, OUR next game is the BEST your edition SUCKS! CON damage whats that? YOUR all IDOITS! WE are SO sure that we will succeed that we are going to make a cartoon of a dragon LITERALLY taking a poop on you all! HA! Whatcha gonna do? We have the industry man!"

    5 years later..

    "Hey, um...would you love to test our game? Oh we WANT to help ALL of you guys man, we love you all and hope to make a game for all of you!"

    Im not sure. While there is an aspect of genuiness in it its also kinda fackey. Its that corporate BS talk that just really tints the company. Sometimes I wish they just said flat out what they mean.

    And it all depends on the game realy. Thats whats going to happen.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Bearpunch's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Unless 5e is some sort of godly incarnation of D&D, I will probably stick with 4e/PF. Not that I don't like new things, its that I prefer my wallet to have money in it.
    Bearpunch Gunsmoke
    Dungeoning Dragons. All day. Every day.
    Thanks so much to Eruantion for my awesome Gith Monk avatar!

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Dr. Yes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Carolina
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    For my group, at least, a big part of whether we switch will depend on how easy it is to access 5e material without purchasing a shelf full of sourcebooks. We've played 4th, d20 Modern, and Pathfinder, but we keep coming back to Pathfinder because everything you could possibly need to know is available in one place in a convenient, searchable format on the SRD. I think in general, there's a large set of people who are willing to play tabletop RPGs and a much smaller subset who are willing to dump money into the hobby, and it's much easier to put a game together if you're not limiting yourself to the latter set.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Citadel Adbar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    There are still TSR-era D&D fans. The reason the 3.5/4e split is so pronounced is because WotC made an active effort to make the 2e => 3e change relatively minor, and then made a huge leap with 4th. Many of the people who liked all that D&D was before rebelled at what's basically a completely different game. For comparison, while many 4e fans dislike Essentials, I don't recall ever seeing a flame war on the topic.
    I agree with you the jump from 3.5 => 4E was pretty massive. I play 4E because I like the balance and simplified rules. Don't get me wrong, I still love some 3.5, but I prefer that everyone at the table has a chance to feel like their character is as awesome as the next guys. I do not like Essentials and see it as another money grab on Wizards part. I will continue to game w/4E until 5E has been out for a year or two and we can see what more of the source books and what not have to offer. I'm pretty excited to see what they can come up with, but not so excited I'm going to drop another couple hundred bucks just cuz they took the time to pump out a new set of rules.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Banned
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    It depends what 5E is.

    Many 3E players moved on to Pathfinder since they chose to continue the 3E model. Some 3E players won't, but the model will continue on and provide a haven for those who did not join the 4E bandwagon.

    5E is WOTC's test to their true feelings on the matter. While I don't expect it to be 3E with just the number 3 replaced with the number 5 on the front cover, if WOTC cares about bring back its 3E customers 5E content will have stuff such customers want.

    Until 5E is published, I'll be watching while playing Pathfinder.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    5th Edition needs to be some holy grail of gaming that is incredibly better than Pathfinder to get me to even consider running a pre-generated box session with it.

    I'm very content with 3.Pathfinder and I'm very content with what Pathfinder is doing with their game and business models.

    WoTC very much alienated me when they made what they called "4th Edition" and they'll need to beg and scrape to get my loyalty back.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tengu_temp's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Poland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    War, war never changes. There will just be one more faction in the conflict.

    Siela Tempo by the talented Kasanip. Tengu by myself.
    Spoiler
    Show





  19. - Top - End - #19
    Banned
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Pretty much. Eventualy it reaches a point where you ask "Do I NEED a new edition?"

    You can keep one edition running with lots of fluff and good and creative campaign settings. I for one WISH there was a dark sun for 3.5.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    The next addition war will look like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArsenal View Post
    Pretty much. Eventualy it reaches a point where you ask "Do I NEED a new edition?"

    You can keep one edition running with lots of fluff and good and creative campaign settings. I for one WISH there was a dark sun for 3.5.
    I remember Dragon Magazine having some Dark Sun stuff in it for 3.x, and then the fan led initiative for it that should still be posted on the web somewhere.

    For whatever it's worth.
    It doesn't matter what game you're playing as long as you're having fun.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Don't have time to read it all now, but think about it. D&D is already split into factions, and has been since long before 4ed came out. You have the 3.X players, the groups that swear that anything after AD&D is pure and utter blasphemy, the rare groups that refuses to move past 1ed and so on. Why would this change? You'll still have people who'll prefer 3.X/3.5, people who love 4ed and you'll get people who like 5ed, neither will be better than any other one, they'll just appeal to different people.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    I think The Giant said it best:

    When it comes right down to it, the so-called "Edition Wars" really amount to a battle not over which system is objectively better, but over whether or not the base of players needs to accept a new system just because that system is published. On one side of the debate, there's the knowledge that no one can break into your house at night and burn your existing books; if you want to keep playing an old edition, nothing is physically stopping you. Heck, lots of people still play First Edition, or Original D&D! On the other hand, by doing so, you are making a conscious decision to separate yourself from those who are following the current product lines. If enough people refuse to convert, then it becomes harder for both sides to find people for their gaming groups. If you try to play both editions simultaneously, you end up splitting your gaming time such that neither game really gets your full attention. Few people have enough free time to play in multiple gaming groups. So, system aside, there are compelling arguments for either staying current or sticking with the one you love even if progress marches on. There are no easy answers.

    As the hobby goes on, and there's a Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh edition, probably all within our lifetime if the game doesn't die off, I expect the rancor between factions will become less intense. When there are a dozen different flavors of D&D to choose from, it will seem somewhat silly to fervently declare loyalty to one (and only one) of them. Gamers will need to be at least passingly conversant in all of the extant editions just to be able to move between different gaming groups. You'll have one group playing Third Edition but poaching the saving throw rules from Sixth Edition, another playing Fifth edition but reinstating the alignment rules from First Edition, and a third group playing cutting-edge Ninth Edition by interfacing their brainstems directly with the DM-O-Matic 4500 and using their actual psionic powers to tell their characters to manifest pretend psionic powers. It'll be crazy, you wait and see.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2012-01-24 at 02:18 PM.
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    erikun's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    When AD&D came out, there were people who stuck with OD&D.
    When 2nd edition came out, there were people who stuck with 1st edition.
    When 3rd edition came out, there were people who stuck with AD&D.
    When 4th edition came out, there were people who stuck with 3rd edition.

    When 5th edition comes out, there will be people who stick with 4th edition. And 3rd edition, and 2nd edition, and AD&D, and even the few OD&D players.


    As a side note, I think the 3rd edition "faction" has mostly died out by this point. Most 3e players, or at least most who are vocally speaking about their edition, have moved onto Pathfinder or 4e. I'm seeing people who play Pathfinder and claim it to be the best, and I'm seeing people who play 4e and claim it to be the best. But I'm not seeing that many people remaining who play only 3rd edition (non-Pathfinder) and claiming superiority, at least not many more than who make the same claims for AD&D or other editions.
    Thank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
    The full set is here.
    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    There are no bad ideas, just bad execution.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Air Raccoon avatar provided by Ceika
    from the Request an OotS Style Avatar thread



    A big thanks to PrinceAquilaDei for the gryphon avatar!
    original image

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Orc in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    In actual play (ie. my experience outside messageboards), it's usually more a matter of what's available than anything. For my group PF is currently the most favorable of the late-gen D&D-spinoffs - not because any of us like it better than 3e or 4e, but because it has the most free support.

    And our most-used systems for D&D-type games are things like Dungeon World and Warrior Rogue and Mage, for similar reasons.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oolitic, IN

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    A "faction" will never die out totally. There will always be people playing it somewhere. 1st edition is still played and loved by many. In fact, that "faction" may grow somewhat, as WotC is reprinting the 1st edition books.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    As a side note, I think the 3rd edition "faction" has mostly died out by this point.
    I don't think so. There's this popular webcomic based on 3E rules, you know...

    More to the point, http://d20srd.org is still up and scoring an Alexa rank of 198,000 (89,000 in the US). That's not high-profile, but neither is it obscure.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArsenal View Post
    Im not sure. While there is an aspect of genuiness in it its also kinda fackey. Its that corporate BS talk that just really tints the company. Sometimes I wish they just said flat out what they mean.
    I'm pretty sure they are saying what they mean.
    4E: We don't care at all for people who don't stay with the most up to date edition.

    5E: We're sorry and we're trying to make everyone happy so you'll come back and love us.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Banned
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    Quote Originally Posted by MukkTB View Post
    I'm pretty sure they are saying what they mean.
    4E: We don't care at all for people who don't stay with the most up to date edition.

    5E: We're sorry and we're trying to make everyone happy so you'll come back and love us.
    I just wish they SAID that. A public apology would be great. Simply something like

    "look, were sorry. We wen't too far and tried to deny it. Please give us your money"

    But no its all colored and Tinted.

    edit:

    For example, they COULD address 3e, the gorila in the corner (I don't think they mention it by name. Its either silly 1e or elegant 4e)

    They could address how they hope to fix the balance without making it utterly dull.

    From this article I don't have much hope. While this article did address some of my concerns I just wish they addressed what they hoped to do with casting. That is MY biggest question.
    Last edited by TheArsenal; 2012-01-24 at 05:40 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Orc in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: The Future of the Edition War

    WotC should apologize to its players because WotC rewrote the game in a way to address the complaints posed by players of their previous game?

    That's hilarious.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •