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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    A fellow player of mine is interested in the following: Having his Jedi PC build a lightsaber that has two crystals instead of one; one crystal is of a lethal type, and the other crystal being of the type that does stun damage only (such as in training lightsabers.)

    He's going to be using the long handled lightsaber, so that answers the question of having physical space for the extra crystal. He wants to have a button that will let him switch the blade from one crystal to the other. The reason for the design is to have a weapon that allows him to strike without killing. I couldn't find any rules that allow or disallow this. Any help or comments?

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    It'd be easier logistics+brain-wise if he just had a double saber with mismatched crystals, but only ever fought with one end active at a time. Unless that's what you mean by 'long-handled saber'.
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?


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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Not 100% familiar with SWSE (I only ever played SWd20, but I've read the SWSE rules before).

    The way I see it, the only issue here is whether you want to allow it. Are there any rules regarding non-lethal damage that the player might exploit?

    In melee - just like you're fighting with the lightsabre's blade against an enemy - you already have the option to deal non-lethal damage: you can smack someone with your fist or some other non-lethal attack in place of a lightsabre attack. No big deal.
    This jedi character is effectively just carrying two lightsabres in one object - again, not really a big deal.

    I'd say it will need an action of some sort to switch between the two style of blade - a swift action, at least (the standard), but I'd prefer it to be a move action. It takes more time in the movies for a lightsabre blade to extinguish than it does to ignite, and you need to do both.

    In terms of SW fluff? Why not! It's quite sensible, and makes good sense for a guardian of peace and order to have an elegant non-lethal weapon. Let's face it, there are plenty sillier things in SW canon.
    Last edited by Altair_the_Vexed; 2012-02-01 at 05:12 PM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    I'm not the GM. I'm a fellow player that has more time to help research.

    The game rules don't really incorporate being able to just do stun damage whenever you want to. You need a weapon that can do stun damage (blaster set to stun, lightsaber with a nonlethal crystal, taser, etc.) Punching someone without having Martial Arts grants your target an immediate attack of opportunity, and so on.

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    There is a lightsaber type specifically for this sort of thing.
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    By the rules, probably not (there's a feat out there, however, that makes any killing blows you would deal leave the enemy alive). I don't see why a GM wouldn't make such an exception, however, as it's not broken at all (stun damage is really weak unless focused on) and there's similar sabers in the EU canon (Corran Horn's first lightsaber, for instance, had 2 crystals, one made the blade longer). Probably worth either figuring out what druid91 is referring to (I don't know off the top of my head and am AFB) or just asking the GM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    There is a lightsaber type specifically for this sort of thing.
    What lightsaber would that be?

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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Training Lightsabers do this, although they're just lightsabers made with bondar crystals (page 56 of Jedi Academy Training Manual).
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Right. The question is, wanting to make a lightsaber that has a training saber crystal and an X crystal, and being able to switch between the two.

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    I'd allow it except for the fact that the idea of a harmless lightsaber causes me indescribable rage.
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    I'd allow it except for the fact that the idea of a harmless lightsaber causes me indescribable rage.
    Except it's not really a harmless lightsaber. It's only harmless when the Jedi wants it to be.
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Sorry I got caught up in cooking and couldn't finish my post...

    The Saber in question is the Dual Phase Saber on page 51 of the Jedi Academy Training manual.

    It allows for two different crystals to be used, or for one crystal to have an extended setting where the blade is longer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro View Post
    Right. The question is, wanting to make a lightsaber that has a training saber crystal and an X crystal, and being able to switch between the two.
    Yes, it is completely RAW and RAI legal to do so. The lightsaber druid91 is referring to (and Binks referenced) is a Dual-Phase lightsaber, specifically a variant that allows two different settings (swift to change). It is found (along with the variant) on page 51 of the JATM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Thank you, perfect! So, sounds like he needs to make a dual phase, long handled saber. :)

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro View Post
    Thank you, perfect! So, sounds like he needs to make a dual phase, long handled saber. :)
    Dual-phase lightsabers don't actually need to have longer handles.
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    I'd allow it except for the fact that the idea of a harmless lightsaber causes me indescribable rage.
    Apart from the fact that a lightsaber you can set to stun would perfectly fit Jedi philosophy?


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    Goblin

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    If generic mass-produced blasters can be set to stun, there's no reason you can't make a custom lightsaber that can be used the same way.

    I'd think an easier solution would be just to craft and carry two lightsabers, but hey, efficiency.
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    Dual-phase lightsabers don't actually need to have longer handles.
    Yes, we know that. But the player wants his Jedi to use a long handled lightsaber for stylistic reasons.

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro View Post
    Yes, we know that. But the player wants his Jedi to use a long handled lightsaber for stylistic reasons.
    Okay, you made it sound like he was picking the long-handled saber specifically so he could fit a second crystal in.
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro View Post
    Right. The question is, wanting to make a lightsaber that has a training saber crystal and an X crystal, and being able to switch between the two.
    Jedi Academy Training Manual has the rules for this. Its a dual phase lightsaber, that can either be long/normal or have two different sets of crystals and associate effects.

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by horngeek View Post
    Apart from the fact that a lightsaber you can set to stun would perfectly fit Jedi philosophy?
    I think "Fight or don't fight; there is no stun" would be more appropriate. In my opinion, having a lightsaber that can be set to stun would only encourage a jedi to turn to combat as a solution more readily instead of saving it as a last resort. It would also encourage them to be lazy and sloppy in using the lightsaber because they don't have to worry about how they hit someone. If you want to disarm someone (either hitting their weapon or literally taking their arm off) instead of killing them, then you need to be very careful and focused when using a real lightsaber and you won't whip out your weapon casually. Remember the way Ben Kenobi tried to talk the cantina thugs down before he cut off that guys arm? With a stunsaber, there is no need for attempting a peaceful resolution first or even for aiming for the arm instead of the torso. You just can just swing indiscriminately.

    Also, from a roleplaying point of view, it's really boring. The jedi never has to worry about whether using force (of arms) is justified. If there's a grey area, they can just say "I don't need to worry about that! Set for stun!" and skip the drama and tension of choosing whether or not to draw their blade.

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Stun weapons "have a better than fifty percent chance of sparking a miscarriage" in the Zahn books. It also has Leia checking that a stun weapon "hasn't played any of its rare but potentially lethal tricks on the Wookiee's nervous system" where it was Chewie being stunned by a Noghri.

    So they aren't completely consequence-less.

    There's plenty of ways in which "nonlethal violence" might still be "excessively aggressive"- diplomatic situations that can be ruined, and so forth.
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    There's plenty of ways in which "nonlethal violence" might still be "excessively aggressive"- diplomatic situations that can be ruined, and so forth.
    Those don't really qualify as "grey areas" because they are no-brainer non-combat situations. I'm thinking more of situations where they could fight but have to consider whether it's worth it.
    Last edited by Xuc Xac; 2012-02-11 at 01:47 PM.

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Stun is also quite painful:

    The stun-bolt caught Corran square in the middle of his chest. It did to his nervous system what an ion-bolt did to a machine. In one instant every nerve in Corran's body fired, instantly wracking him with pain, burning him up, shaking, crushing, and freezing him. All of his muscles contracted, bowing his back, grinding his teeth, and kicking him up into the air with a little hop. His limp body's impact on the ground probably hurt, but his nervous system couldn't route reports to his brain properly, so he really didn't know how he felt. [ "X-Wing: The Krytos Trap" p.186 ]
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    I'd allow it except for the fact that the idea of a harmless lightsaber causes me indescribable rage.
    So, what, you think they train those four-year-olds with fully lethal cut-your-head-off-in-a-moment lightsabers?
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    The fact that they're training four-year-olds with weapons of any kind, lethal or not, is horrific in its implications.

    But hey, you know, it's fine - they have a stun setting, so you can have these children practice swordsmanship in this crowded little area, each kid less than two feet from the adjacent children.
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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    So, what, you think they train those four-year-olds with fully lethal cut-your-head-off-in-a-moment lightsabers?
    Considering that this is the same galaxy with one-foot-wide catwalks over a 100-mile-deep chasm with no guardrails... yes. Yes, I do think they train the 4-year-olds with fully lethal cut-your-head-off-in-a-moment lightsabers.

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

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    Default Re: SWSE: Lightsaber with two crystals?

    If the GM has problems with the Dual-Phase sidebar, or won't let the player incorporate Dual-Phase with a long-shafted lightsaber, for whatever reason, you can still accomplish the same thing using the item upgrades system in Scum and Villainy; just Dual Gear a standard and a training lightsaber together; it even covers the only-being-able-to-use-one-at-once facet. Might even be cheaper.
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