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    Default Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed



    Legend is an innovative d20-based system that originated in our very own Homebrew boards, and launched in late November 2011. In the two months since, we have moved over 20,000 copies, with all proceeds donated directly to Child's Play. Read more about Legend or download the rulebook.


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    • Feb 05: Our pay-what-you-want period has just concluded. Stay tuned for a new way to donate - all proceeds from the book will still go to Child's Play.
    • Feb 06: Our first adventure module is content-complete, and running through its final editing passes, so you can expect it soon.
    • Feb 19: The Legend Kickstarter is live.
    • March 3rd: We have forums? We have forums!
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2012-03-18 at 07:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Nice logo.

    How is access to the full book for donors going to work?
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Well, I promised you a first impression thing for the adventure, didn't I? So here goes. But before I do, I'm not going to post any kind of real spoilers with the exception of talking about the premades and the overall general thing until someone from Rule of Cool says I can.

    So.

    EDIT: Doc Roc has used the official name on the RoC site, so I will too.

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    Osaka Street Stories is an adventure meant for 3-5 level 4 heroes. There are only four premades: a Gnome pyromancer, a Dwarf rogue/monk, a Human paladin and a Fire Demon. Yes, this makes sense given the adventure. I will say after having looked over the plot of the whole thing, it's pretty well written: It almost makes me think of a cyberpunk story, but without the cyber. It's actually not set in Hollow at all, though I'm sure with a bit of tweaking it could be. You're in a city, and some mobsters take something of yours that because [Plot] you can't let them have. You and your band of friends go to kick some butt and get your [Macguffin] back.

    (Also, as a side note, you may recall the fifth character I made, since I had 5 players and 4 premades: a human Paladin Vigilante. Think Sentai meets Judge Dredd.)

    The lethality of this game is...well, low, if you do it right. I misread/misinterpreted the rules on the feat Tell Them Still Angry, which some of the mooks have, so read correctly, there are some fights (the last half of the adventure, of course) which are a little bit rougher than those in the beginning, but it's all pretty well balanced. Well...sort of. I mean, you're not gonna run around killing mooks in one hit - they're slightly weaker than the party, sure, and if they mob up (no pun intended) then they might kill a guy, but with liberal use of healing, it really shouldn't be that bad.

    The adventure's got a few cool new Skill Games to look forward to - one's a more in-depth look at interrogation, and the other...well, that's a surprise. ;D Oh, and there's actually another one, which...is also a surprise. It's really weird and out there, but I like it.

    Now, we only got about...eh, a third of the way through, so no word on the actual play-through of the last chunk, but from what we played, the PCs enjoyed it (minus a few chunks where we realized there were some errors in the text with regards to Skill DCs, but hey, that's what Beta is for!) and I think you will too.
    Last edited by Deth Muncher; 2012-02-06 at 11:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Every time I try to dissect a track to see if it combos better than other tracks, I come to the conclusion that it doesn't, or that its naturally paired with the clearest choice. Sure, there are plenty of cool and effective combination you can do with them, but none of them jump out at me as "This is really powerful". Some give me that initial impression, until I examine the details of what is going on, and realize that it is sacrificing other things for the awesome.
    The system has thus far prevented me from making anything more powerful than is reasonable, but has let me make a ton of cool concepts.
    I can specialize in one type of thing, such as keeping rest of the party alive, or dealing damage, and have enough options to fulfill those goals. I can operate off of a character concept, and use the system to satisfy it. The system also suggests certain concepts, without making them a choice the designer decided should be there. At least, they don't feel like they were artificially added, it feels like a natural consequence of what is given. All of the classes are able to fulfill their roles effectively, and do so in interesting ways, but you are not tied to those roles.
    You can play the hulking barbarian, a battle rogue, or the magiest mage who ever maged. You can embrace magic fully and be a vancian caster, or you can utilize a selection of at-will powers, or ignore magical abilities completely, and all these options are viable and useful. Magic is not needed to function in an effective and versatile manner, but magic is also fully viable in its own right.
    All the while it remains simple to make the characters. no pouring over levels and deciding how many levels of each class to take, just select a few tracks and go. I can create these builds very quickly, without feeling like I'm missing out on the potential. Its balanced enough that I don't have to second guess every build I make, considering whether it will function in a game, or if its too powerful and would have to be toned down for actual use.


    So, purely from a character design standpoint, it is beautiful. I love it. It accomplishes everything I want from character design, and I am very focused on character building.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystify View Post
    Every time I try to dissect a track to see if it combos better than other tracks, I come to the conclusion that it doesn't, or that its naturally paired with the clearest choice. Sure, there are plenty of cool and effective combination you can do with them, but none of them jump out at me as "This is really powerful". Some give me that initial impression, until I examine the details of what is going on, and realize that it is sacrificing other things for the awesome.
    The system has thus far prevented me from making anything more powerful than is reasonable, but has let me make a ton of cool concepts.
    I can specialize in one type of thing, such as keeping rest of the party alive, or dealing damage, and have enough options to fulfill those goals. I can operate off of a character concept, and use the system to satisfy it. The system also suggests certain concepts, without making them a choice the designer decided should be there. At least, they don't feel like they were artificially added, it feels like a natural consequence of what is given. All of the classes are able to fulfill their roles effectively, and do so in interesting ways, but you are not tied to those roles.
    You can play the hulking barbarian, a battle rogue, or the magiest mage who ever maged. You can embrace magic fully and be a vancian caster, or you can utilize a selection of at-will powers, or ignore magical abilities completely, and all these options are viable and useful. Magic is not needed to function in an effective and versatile manner, but magic is also fully viable in its own right.
    All the while it remains simple to make the characters. no pouring over levels and deciding how many levels of each class to take, just select a few tracks and go. I can create these builds very quickly, without feeling like I'm missing out on the potential. Its balanced enough that I don't have to second guess every build I make, considering whether it will function in a game, or if its too powerful and would have to be toned down for actual use.


    So, purely from a character design standpoint, it is beautiful. I love it. It accomplishes everything I want from character design, and I am very focused on character building.
    100% this.

    I'm thinking what I might end up doing is writing up some classic characters in Legend stats just so people can have a nice starting point and see what's what, just to show exactly WHAT people can do with characters. (And what some of those tracks are obvious references to. ;D)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Dibs on Harry Dresden.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    I'm thinking what I might end up doing is writing up some classic characters in Legend stats just so people can have a nice starting point and see what's what, just to show exactly WHAT people can do with characters. (And what some of those tracks are obvious references to. ;D)
    Just admit it. You don't do it to help people, but because it is fun. :P

    Tell us if you want others to participate. I have a Dracula build to share.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    I just realized we've done better than the pathfinder Q&A. That's something, right? On the other hand, actual play on the boards seems to have been really limited.

    We could really use help raising awareness, or with PR. Hopefully, having an adventure module in hand will make it easier for you guys to talk about us. I know it's made me feel a lot more comfortable trying to sell people on the game.
    Last edited by Doc Roc; 2012-02-06 at 06:23 AM.
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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    100% this.

    I'm thinking what I might end up doing is writing up some classic characters in Legend stats just so people can have a nice starting point and see what's what, just to show exactly WHAT people can do with characters. (And what some of those tracks are obvious references to. ;D)
    That seems like a good idea. Maybe us fans could start to collectively put together a build index?
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Zejety View Post
    Just admit it. You don't do it to help people, but because it is fun. :P

    Tell us if you want others to participate. I have a Dracula build to share.
    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    That seems like a good idea. Maybe us fans could start to collectively put together a build index?
    Oh, I mean, I didn't mean that I held the exclusive rights to Legend-izing characters. :P By all means, post your own, make an index. I just meant that maybe I could put one out a week or something. It's not like I do a webcomic or anything, just lots and lots of English majoring. i.e. Something that gets ignored in favor of RPGs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    a Dwarf rouge/monk
    So, Dwarven makeup ascetics, eh?

    That aside, it sounds awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    I just realized we've done better than the pathfinder Q&A. That's something, right? On the other hand, actual play on the boards seems to have been really limited.

    We could really use help raising awareness, or with PR. Hopefully, having an adventure module in hand will make it easier for you guys to talk about us. I know it's made me feel a lot more comfortable trying to sell people on the game.
    If I can get my financial status actually secure, I can turn to seeing about doing things again, like get something written up and advertising in my local region for Legend, especially with the upcoming convention here come April, eh?

    Actually, I might be able to persuade some college friends to run Legend at another convention that should be upcoming soon. Let me poke some people and maybe there will be some Legend happening in the Milwaukee area soon.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2012-02-06 at 11:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    So, Dwarven makeup ascetics, eh?
    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF- -explosion-

    I ALWAYS get people on that mistake, and now I have made it. Ritual suicide, here I come. It's the only way to cleanse the shame from my family.

    ...anyway. Good catch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    So, Dwarven makeup ascetics, eh?
    Dwarven makeup aesthetics definitely leave something to be desired.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Restating my question from last time for discussion since it seems to have been skipped over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geigan View Post
    I would like to know how people tend to handle magical items in their games in acquisition, allowance, and other aspects. Do you hand them out at the levels where the bindings open up or do you make them earn them before they can bind them as well? Do you stick to the default fluff or do you reflavor most of it? Do you treat them as rewards, natural character advancement, or something else? How do you treat the magic items that enemies have if they haven't full bought in or if they are high enough level in the full buy in to still have items? etc etc etc
    Also I'm broken up over what to do when the module comes out. I would have so much fun DMing it, but at the same time I would have so much fun playing it. What do?
    Last edited by Geigan; 2012-02-06 at 04:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Geigan View Post
    Also I'm broken up over what to do when the module comes out. I would have so much fun DMing it, but at the same time I would have so much fun playing it. What do?
    Get some other schmuck to DM it for you and then run it for a group of hapless schmucks?
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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Get some other schmuck to DM it for you and then run it for a group of hapless schmucks?
    Well I feel responsible for running the module actually since I was the one who introduced them to Legend. I feel like I must personally look at every thing to so I can see all the awesomeness first make sure it's up to their standards.
    Last edited by Geigan; 2012-02-06 at 04:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Just reposting Geigan's question from the last thread, since it never got any responses with the excitement of reaching 50 pages. I'm curious as to how anyone who's played the game has handled the magic items as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geigan;
    I would like to know how people tend to handle magical items in their games in acquisition, allowance, and other aspects. Do you hand them out at the levels where the bindings open up or do you make them earn them before they can bind them as well? Do you stick to the default fluff or do you reflavor most of it? Do you treat them as rewards, natural character advancement, or something else? How do you treat the magic items that enemies have if they haven't full bought in or if they are high enough level in the full buy in to still have items? etc etc etc
    Devoted artificer of the church of Scorching Ray.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    I just realized we've done better than the pathfinder Q&A. That's something, right? On the other hand, actual play on the boards seems to have been really limited.

    We could really use help raising awareness, or with PR. Hopefully, having an adventure module in hand will make it easier for you guys to talk about us. I know it's made me feel a lot more comfortable trying to sell people on the game.
    I've been doing my part by linking to the Rule of Cool website on every forum I visit and encouraging people to try it out.

    Also, I'm still working on that secret project of mine that might help this out a bit as well...
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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by darkbuu_1, in the first thread
    I'm confused by special weapons, mostly the;
    "You can choose to use a special weapon with two hands and not benefit from its special property. If you do so, you can treat it as a Main weapon for purposes of calculating damage."
    Is this limited by anything, such as to one or two handed weapons only or is it any [Special Weapon]? So would a Crossbow do main weapon damage if I smacked someone with it?
    I think the weapon properties could use an expansion. In particular, I think it could use a [Ranged] property, noting that Main weapons have a range of [Medium] while Hold-Out and Special weapons are [Close] (which seems to be the system you're using). An idea in regards to the specific example given by darkbuu_1: add a phrase to the (proposed) [Ranged] entry noting that [Ranged] weapons used in [Melee] are treated as hold-out weapons.



    Also, a question about Struggle: I've been treating this ability as if it grants the bonus damage on a successful third attack - that's the way I understood it after the first read through - but now I realize that it can be read to apply to the damage roll of the second attack. Which way is it?

    If it activates on the third attack, then the Struggle ability is rather frustrating, because it requires you to declare your actions in particular ways in order to effectively use it. And considering how easy to use the rest of the system is, that's annoying as the IRS.

    If it activates on the second attack, then suddenly it becomes an awesome ability, full stop. But please clarify the ability so that it can't be mistaken, if this is the case.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    So I'm thinking I may start statting up OotS characters in the Legend ruleset for my own amusement. I've got the Order basically figured out, and I'm figuring the end of "Don't Split the Party" is a good temporal benchmark.

    But what level do people think various characters should be at? Xykon is probably 20th level, while Redcloak just hit 18 or so. They're at the high end of the spectrum where's the Order in relation to that? Also, who in the cast is likely to count as Legendary?

    For reference, here's what I've got so far (be aware that their optimization is generally pretty bad):
    • Roy Human Barbarian w/Tactical Insight, Knight (Guild), Path of Destruction
    • Haley Human Rogue w/Assassin, Acrobatic Adept, Esoterica Radica
    • Durkon Dwarf Shaman w/Virtue (Guild), Shaman spellcasting, Bastion
    • Vaarsuvius Elf Tactician w/Shaman spellcasting (Guild, Dartmuth Secret), Tactician spellcasting, True Mage
    • Belkar Halfling Barbarian w/Path of Rage, Battle's Tempering, Utter Brute (Guild)
    • Elan Human Rogue w/Smiting (Guild), Heroica, Fortune's Friend
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2012-02-06 at 09:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    I'd almost certainly make Xykon Legendary, as he really is just that bad ass.

    As for the order, they're around 13th-14th by my estimation, though that's in current terms, not by where Don't Split the Party ends, as I don't have the book to know to what comic that translates to.

    Also, I don't recall ever seeing Of Might and Guile in any of the published material. Where from?
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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Don't Split the Party ends around when Roy comes back to life, just before they go to the desert continent. Maybe about level 12, then? That sounds about right.

    Of Might and Guile is supposed to be Heroica, fixed.
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2012-02-06 at 08:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    I'd give Vaarsuvius True Mage or perhaps Bag of Tricks instead of Runesong Scholar - he's never really shown any interest in most of the things that Runesong does.

    Also, while we're at it:

    Xykon: Lich/Elementalist (Fire)/Necromancer
    Redcloak: Incantation/Shaman Spells/True Mage
    Tsukiko: Shaman Spells/Tactician Spells/Necromancer
    Miko: Smiting/Path of Destruction/Disciple of the Crane
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2012-02-06 at 08:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
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    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    I'd give Vaarsuvius True Mage instead of Runesong Scholar - he's never really shown any interest in most of the things that Runesong does.
    Damage people, energy resistance, fly and a variety of defensive effects aren't things Vaarsuvius does?
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Id give V true mage instead of sage spellcasting. Sage spellcasting is closer to cleric spellcasting.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    Damage people, energy resistance, fly and a variety of defensive effects aren't things Vaarsuvius does?
    All of those things are handled with spells.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    I suppose True Mage does generally make sense over Runesong Scholar, so I'll go with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystify View Post
    Id give V true mage instead of sage spellcasting. Sage spellcasting is closer to cleric spellcasting.
    Not really. Shamans have almost all of the blasting spells. I'd rather drop Tactician casting than deny the Evoker his fireball.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    This is just to clarify something for myself, but is Legend in the Beta stage or is it completed (for whatever sense of complete an ongoing RPG has)?

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    I suppose True Mage does generally make sense over Runesong Scholar, so I'll go with that.



    Not really. Shamans have almost all of the blasting spells. I'd rather drop Tactician casting than deny the Evoker his fireball.
    Then perhaps it should be elementalist instead. There are very few blasting spells on the shaman list, yet elementalist contains almost all of the typical evocation abilities.

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    Default Re: Legend Thread 2: This Game Is Not Left Handed

    Legend has a complete PHB/DMG. There are ongoing errata, as with any game, but it is fully playable and nothing should be horribly broken.

    There is as of yet no monster manual, but in the meantime there are rules for building your own. (Which is what I always ended up doing anyway in D&D...)

    As stated in the OP, the first published adventure should be out Soon (TM).
    Though in this case Soon (TM) is likely to be on the order of weeks, not months.

    Edit:
    The adventure (Osaka Street Stories) is now out, for anyone from the future reading this first page. The Monster Manual is still forthcoming.
    Last edited by Lagren; 2012-02-22 at 09:44 PM.

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