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2013-12-03, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
This thread is about those simple race, class, and/or item combos that are both not completely overloaded with obvious or "obvious" munchkinry/excessive optimizing and absurdly powerful if played right, going straight to Tier 2 or higher, or at least being an almost-strictly better option than at least 1 T3/T4 class. I'll provide an example here.
Namely, the Hellreaver PrC from Fiendish Codex 2 page 93 (when taken to its level 5) and even a 1-level dip into Binder (from the Tome of Magic page 9) for Naberius (you already got the Knowledge prereq from Hellreaver if you get Binder after Hellreaver 5). For those who don't know about the first (I assume that since Binder's such a beloved class here, everyone knows the relevant bits there), it's a Melee combatant with a heavy focus on doing very mean things to Evil, and a marginally greater focus (that jumps massively at level 10) on Evil Outsiders (gotta kill 1 to get in the PrC).
It lets you get into a quasi-Rage once per encounter (but lasts for the encounter, while giving Fear immunity and aligning all melee attacks to Good) and gives Holy Fury points equal to your class level plus your Charisma mod, which (by level 5) you can spend to 1) add +4 BAB and +2d6 untyped damage to any attack on an Evil creature (1 point/attack, swift action), 2) heal yourself or any Good creature inside 20 ft. for 20 HP/1 point as a swift action, 3) add +2 to any saving throw any time before you're told if it succeeded or not (1 point, immediate), and 4) gain +2 AC to the next incoming attack or the current attack as long as it's applied before you learn its success (1 point, immediate).
The relevant bit is the level 5 ability that lets you renew your Fury points for 2 con damage as a swift action. Thanks to Naberius, that'll be detrimental for at most 2 turns. Since there's a healing ability in there too, parties that are heavily reliant on costly HP-healing methods can drop most of them entirely. These abilities almost completely invalidate a Paladin without their divine casting, and the Binder dip hooks it up to an eternal generator for a bonus. It gets even more fun at higher Hellreaver levels, giving a Dimensional Anchor effect on a successful melee hit to an evil outsider (CL=class level, 3 points/attempt, swift), allowance to spend double points to get double effect on #3 and #4 at level 9, and a Fort-based Save-or-Die melee attack (hit with weapon, roll save if weapon hits) on evil outsiders that deals 10d6 untyped damage on a normal save in addition to normal damage (4 points/attempt, 1/day, swift). As a side-note, if you're still squeamish about getting close to targets despite the d10 HD and full BAB, both this ability and #1 don't specify melee weapons in their crunch, which might mean you can use ranged weapons with them, depending on the DM.
Any of you got other more fun combinations? Remember, nothing that goes into Munchkin territory and be sure to use the KISS principle!Last edited by aleucard; 2013-12-03 at 11:09 PM.
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2013-12-03, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
It's not especially powerful, and doesn't have any infinite use abilities, but my entry for Iron Chef 51 (Black Flame Zealot) was going to be:
Cleric/Zhentarim Spy/BFZ
Zhent spy is a bit of a pain to get into, but if you take it to level 5 you've got your super deep cover, and an undetectable alignment. You can be CE, and masquerade as a LG priest, your cover will be very difficult to penetrate. It says only deity level power can detect your true self.
Depending on how active a given deity is in running the church bureaucracy, you could potentially have the high priest be a plant.
I'm sure you can imagine how bad it would be if say a priest of Shar got himself admitted to the upper ranks of the churches of Lathander or Mystra. Heck, the goddess of the night could have an entire temple dedicated to pumping out spies.
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2013-12-04, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
Re: Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
I used a similar idea for my Iron Chef L submission (Corrupt Avenger), though I used the Strongheart Vest to negate the ability damage.
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2013-12-04, 12:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
Now that I think about it, what's the RAW for using per encounter abilities outside of combat? I don't remember seeing anything for it anywhere, though I'm not as familiar with the rules as most of the people here. Would an inquisitive player have to hash something out with their DM?
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2013-12-04, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
Re: Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
ToB and Dungeonscape's Factotum both have encounter based mechanics and explain it pretty well. Basically, if it has an Encounter Level, its an encounter. Need to talk the king into granting you passage? Encounter. Trap? Encounter. Any fight is obviously an encounter. Walking through town to go shopping? Not an encounter. Encounter based abilities 'reload' at the beginning of the next encounter.
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2013-12-04, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Washington, DC
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Re: Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
Hellfire Warlock and many potent Vile Feat also rely on dealing ability damage each time you use them, which can be healed via the Naberius vestige or prevented via the Strongheart Vest soulmeld.
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2013-12-04, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
Hill Giant Games
I make indie gaming books for you!Spoiler
STaRS: A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system.
Grod's Guide to Greatness, 2e: A big book of player options for 5e.
Grod's Grimoire of the Grotesque: An even bigger book of variant and expanded rules for 5e.
Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.
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2013-12-04, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
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2013-12-04, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
- Gender
Re: Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
A few more levels of Binder and you can do that anyway, mind-- Buer (a 4th level vestige) grants CMinor at will, and CLW 1/5 rounds.
Hill Giant Games
I make indie gaming books for you!Spoiler
STaRS: A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system.
Grod's Guide to Greatness, 2e: A big book of player options for 5e.
Grod's Grimoire of the Grotesque: An even bigger book of variant and expanded rules for 5e.
Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.
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2013-12-05, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Hellreaver + Binder, and other deceptively powerful combinations.
To be fair, this version can heal much larger amounts even at the same rate, only it's faster too. It's got a couple extra goodies for the beefcake-minded PC also, namely full BAB, d10 HD, a smite that doesn't remind one of a certain Mister Creosote, and some emergency defensive boosts when needed. Sure, it's nowhere near as versatile as a comparably leveled Binder, but this is a Paladin stand-in. Binders are switch-hitters, not tanks.