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2012-03-08, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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2012-03-08, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2012-03-14, 11:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Blaugh. I have let this slide while working on some other Pathfinder projects. I'll try to get at least core feats done tonight.
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2012-03-14, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Armored Hulk makes you faster. No really, you get 35 speed in heavy armor.
Non-Armored Hulks get 30 speed in medium.
Two reasons: Armored Swift (+5 ft). Improved Armored Swiftness (+10)=+15.
Add it up: 20 ft (30 ft lowered from heavy armor) + 15 =35.
Add in Boot of Springing/Striding =45 ft
So Armored Brutes are faster. And better armored. And ignore Crits sometimes (Resilience of Steel).Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2012-03-14 at 11:50 PM.
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2012-03-15, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Just a quick addendum. Armored Swiftness is NOT a bonus, it only reduces penalties. So if you take levels in Fighter for Armor Training (or happen to be a Dwarf), to ignore speed penalties, then Armored Swiftness does nothing for you. (Imp. Armored Swift still works though)
Armored Swiftness:
When wearing medium or heavy armor, an armored hulk can move 5 feet faster than normal, to a maximum of her speed.Last edited by grarrrg; 2012-03-15 at 09:20 AM.
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2012-07-20, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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- Lahndan
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
First off, thanks to Novawurmson for this. Very helpful.
Also - presumably, if you're looking at either of these options, mounted combat is playing a big part in your thoughts. Cavalier has quite a few useful benefits for the mounted warrior and is worth considering on its own benefits.
Something I've been tinkering in with the last few days is a Barbarian 12/Cavalier 8 build. At level 8, a Cavalier with Order of the Sword can add his mount's Strength modifier to his own for the damage roll when charging when mounted. Which is quite useful when your Horse is Raging as well - and particularly if you've Pounce. A level 20 Barbarian has +8 Strength when Raging all the time; this guy would only have +6 Strength, but should he be charging on horseback, he is getting a better to hit roll thanks to Cavalier's Charge and a far better damage roll.
It's a bit specialised to say the least - you need to always be Mounted and to charge as often as possible - but within those parameters it looks good to my noobish eyes, and I'd be interested to see how you make the Mounted Barbarian do better.
Note: The Mounted Barbarian might be better at lower levels. I haven't worked out all of this in full in terms of comparisions, or how the build work would in full.
Also, you might well want to take Mounted Barbarian as well as the Cavalier steed. It's a little speed bonus on horseback, it gets you through the lower levels, and it means you always have a spare horse should your first one get killed!
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2012-07-20, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
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- Fl
Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Animal Companions stack, not overlap in PF (which makes EH:Sylvan hilarious as it gives you an effective sorcerer level based on character level)
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2012-07-20, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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- Lahndan
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Thanks for pointing that out.
So - just to check I've got this straight - a Cavalier8/Barbarian 12 w/Mounted Fury would have a single mount at level 16 (8 from each)? Would that still apply if the Cavalier was using an Animal Companion that the Barbarian wouldn't be able to get i.e. Beast Rider Archetype riding a Tiger?
Because, honestly, a level 16 Tiger strikes me as cooler and more Barbarian than a level 20 Horse.
Bonus points for everytime you shout "I Have the Power!"
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2012-07-20, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Slight correction:
Animal Companions Stack.
Mounts Stack.
Animal Companion and Mount do NOT stack. They are two different things. Lots of Mechanical overlap yes, but NOT the same thing.
Correct.
But, take a look at the Horse Master feat. It allows you to use character level instead of Class level to determine how strong your mount is.
It requires Expert Trainer, which is only available through 4 levels of Cavalier. Be careful when choosing Archetypes though, as some trade away Expert Trainer.
So you could be Cavalier 4/(NOT Mounted Fury) Barbarian 16 and still have a level 20 Mount.
In a situation where Horse Master is not useable, then Boon Companion is your next best choice, counting you as +4 levels for your Animal Companion or Mount (to a maximum of your Character level).
(corrected wording)
This is something you would have to ask your DM about. Paizo (as far as I know) has seen fit to NOT clarify much of ANYTHING with regards to mismatched mounts.
(rant about Companion/Mount rules spoilered due to size/craziness)
SpoilerI could theoretically be a Cleric/Bat Shaman Druid/Falconer Ranger/Beast Rider Cavalier/Mounted Fury Barb (various levels).
The Cleric has Scalykind domain, meaning the Animal Companion would have to be a Snake.
The Druid would have to choose a Bat for their Companion.
The Ranger would get a Falcon as Companion.
The Cavalier can choose a variety of Mounts.
The Barbarian much have a Horse/Camel Mount
Of the 5 the only class that has any choice is Cavalier.
So how many of what Companions and Mounts do I have?
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2012-07-20, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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- Lahndan
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Right, cheers Graarg.
And yeah, I knew about Horse Master - its the reason I started looking at Cavalier anyway! However, I just wanted to be sure I knew where I stood... and whether I could be a Tiger riding barbarian.
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2012-07-20, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
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2012-07-20, 06:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Well Stalwart and Improved Stalwart allow you to rack up some mad DR. Intelligent barbarians can get the dodge bonus from Combat Expertise. A more feat intensive build can get it through the crane style tree, it eats less attack bonus and gets the AC bonus faster. So when you go Invulnerable Rager, you get a total of DR 20/- (stalwart explicitly stacks with Barbarian DR).
Quick build:
Master of Many Styles 2 / Invulnerable Rager 18
Human feat: Power attack
Level 1: Endurance
Bonus: Crane Style
Bonus: Crane Wing
Level 3: Diehard
Level 5: Stalwart
Level 7: Dodge
Level 9: Crane Riposte
X
Level 13: Improved Stalwart
X
Not much DPR there, but you will be pretty unkillable until late game.
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2012-07-20, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Don't forget, you can take the Increased Damage Reduction Rage power up to 3 times.
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2012-07-22, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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- Lahndan
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2012-07-22, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Pennsylvania
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
I intend to follow through on an intimidate build using a level 1 Oracle that I'm currently playing. I intend to multiclass into Barbarian and then head straight for Rage Prophet. My charisma score (necessary for Oracle spells) should compliment an Intimidate build nicely.
I'm planning on picking up Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Gory Finish, and Shatter Defenses as soon as I can, in addition to all the Intimidate-based rage powers. I might throw Intimidating Prowess in there if I can.
Here are my character's stats, if you're interested:
Str:16
Dex:10
Con:12
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha:16
Perhaps not the best for a straight Barbarian build, but I'm confident I can make it work for a Rage Prophet build.
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2012-07-22, 01:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
You are going to have a massive Feat problem.
Rage Prophet does not grant Rage powers. It stacks levels with Barb for effectiveness of Rage Powers and such, but does not give you any.
So you'd want/have to take the Extra Rage Power feat.
But, you'll be spending a lot of feats towards optimizing Intimidate. "picking up Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Gory Finish, and Shatter Defenses....throw Intimidating Prowess in there if I can."
Unless you spread out/delay Rage Prophet levels you will no have enough to work with for quite a while.
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2012-07-22, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Pennsylvania
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
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2012-07-22, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
The lack of new Rage Powers/Revelations is just one of the things that kills Rage Prophet as being actually useful.
It's a Barb/Oracle hybrid, the problem is that when combining the two they erred on the side of caution power-wise for EVERY. SINGLE. THING.
Barb has Full Bab and d12HD, Oracle has 3/4 Bab and d8HD.
Prophet has 3/4 Bab and d10HD. The lower Bab wouldn't be so bad if the Casting was Full progression.
But it's not. Taking Rage Prophet for the full 10 levels loses 3 caster levels. Add on the minimum 2 lost from the Pre-Reqs (Barb 2), and your Oracle casting only has level 7 spells.
Heck, just taking the FIRST LEVEL of Rage Prophet means you can never get 9th level spells.
Prophet levels stack to determine the power of any Curse/Revelations/Rage Powers you have.
But the class grants NO new Revelations or Rage Powers.
The class grants various abilities that allow you to Cast spells during a Rage (without having to use Clarity of Mind).
But the class doesn't grant you ANY extra rounds of Rage. Until level 6 of Prophet, when you can sacrifice spell slots to extend your Rage.
There are abilities that can enhance your casting, adding CON to Concentration checks, Barb level to effective Caster Level, and CON to save DC of spells.
But, even with Barb to casting level you are STILL behind due to the lost casting of Prophet itself, and while the CON to save DC sounds nice, it only works while Raging, and you don't get it until level 7 of Prophet.
You are almost universally better off by going Barb +1/Oracle +3/Barb +1/Oracle +3. You'll have the same Casting, slightly better Bab, more Rage Powers, more Rage Rounds, more Revelations, etc...
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2012-07-22, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Pennsylvania
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2012-07-22, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- Brazil
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
It really saddens me to see a great class (in concept and fluff) be castrated by a poor mechanic execution, especially after they managed to make Arcane Archers, of all things, interesting (perhaps even good).
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2012-07-22, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- My skills exceed yours!
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
I apologize, but I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of the Intimidating Glare rage power. Pathfinder has nerfed the Intimidate skill to prevent fear-stacking, explicitly.
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2012-07-22, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Well, you could try working with your GM to modify Rage Prophet to be useable.
Giving it Full Bab or Full Casting would be a start.
Giving even +1 round of Rage per Prophet level would be nice.
Getting a choice of new Rage Power OR Revelation every few levels (every 2nd? every 3rd?).
Possibly reduce the 'Prophet stacks with..." to only count 1/2 Prophet levels (this is a minor nerf, but may help get additional Powers/Revelations approved).
Doing any/all of the above would be a good start on making Rage Prophet playable, not necessarily good, but at least useable.
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2012-07-22, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Pennsylvania
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Maybe. We're not especially stiff-necked when comes to rules in our group, but I can't remember any of us doing anything like that, before.
EDIT: Talked things over with my GM. I think we're going to swap out my character. I'll still be going for Rage Prophet, but mostly for the rage cycling. Any ideas on what would be a good mystery for a barbarian going into Rage Prophet?
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2012-07-23, 12:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
I like the guide a lot, but I can't believe the Invulnerable Rager Archetype isn't blue. Lose the very situational immunity to Sneak attacks for half your level in DR? Yes. Please. I'm playing one right now in a game, and it's stupid how many hit points the DR saves you over a full session.
On a related note, Flesh Wound looks awesome, especially with the Invulnerable Rager. By the time you qualify for it, Level 10, Inv. Ragers have DR 10/- for nonleathal damage. Barbarian will also be making DC 20 Fortitude saves all day. So if something hits you for about 15-20 damage, activate flesh wound, and BAM pass an easy save, take the half nonlethal which negates the attack completely. Even at level 10, shrugging off 20 damage a turn is pretty good. Rage cycle as the guide suggests and do this every turn.
Bestial Leaper seems greenish to me since it improves your mobility so much for battlefield control. Run up to an enemy, cleave/vital strike/whatever, and if the enemy dies, continue your move to the next enemy, block off a chokepoint, or set up a flank. It's actually better than Spring attack to me, because less of an investment and Spring attack got errated to be a full round action. I am strongly considering that power in my current game.
The guide pointed me to a lot of rage cycle tricks I didn't know, and other cool stuff. Just adding my 2 cp as a fellow Rager!
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2012-07-23, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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- Lahndan
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Presumably you want things that enhance your ability to use people's heads as tasteful kitchenware, right?
Battle is the obvious one. Plenty of buffs in there. The others would be Ancestor, Metal, Stone and Time imo. Have a look. Which is best depends a) on your flavour and b) How many levels you'll be in Oracle.
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2012-07-23, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Peat hit the highlights, though Dark Tapestry for Many Forms has uses; Beast Shape III at level 11 means pounce.
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2012-07-23, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Pennsylvania
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
I'll probably only go for a few oracle levels for some out-of-combat healing ability. We have a base complete with a river of lava and a rope bridge, so if it comes to it, we can just go into siege mode for a while and heal up for a few days.
The Ancestor mystery looks interesting, so I think I'll go for that.
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2012-12-07, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Aachen, Germany
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
Nova, sorry if this is being rude, but when will you be able to continue with the Feat section of this guide?
On another note:
Being an Invulnerable Rager and having only Core + APG material to work from, how would you build a rather simple smashing Barbarian?
Power Attack being mandatory as a choice... but what to take for 3rd and 5th level? Which Ragepowers? And what gear should one buy (assume 10.000 GP)?
I for my Part would probably go for Power Attack, Furious Focus and Extra Ragepower (if I need one more) or Raging Vitality.
A +1 Weapon, an +1 Armor, a +2 Strength Belt and something to spend ~3000 for.Have a nice Day,
Krazzman
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2012-12-09, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- The Desert
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
To bump the previous and ask my own question.
I am diving into Pathfinder for the first time, should I play the Barb as classic, or should I use an Alt?
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2012-12-09, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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Re: [PF] Anger Management: A Pathfinder Guide to the Barbarian
There is nothing wrong with "plain" Barbarian.
But chances are there is an archetype that will better fit whatever it is you want to do.
The only exception, and it's a weird one, is Totem Warrior.
EVERY Barbarian EVER should be Totem Warrior. But that's more due to Totem Warrior being really odd than anything else.
And that goes for pretty much every class (cept the Totem Warrior part). The 'plain' version is always a perfectly viable choice.