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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Welcome one and all to the third zinc saucier challenge, where playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds.

    The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the secret ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

    For the third challenge get ready to speed out finger food as its the Player's handbook's Monk

    Our challengers will have 2 weeks to build a complete build from lvs 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material(excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Monk without actually using any levels in it.
    Entries Must be submitted by 7th March 5:00PM GMT

    Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 5 categories;

    * Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
    * Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
    * Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
    * Fluff (How well the characters back-stories and classes mesh)
    * Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)


    Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

    Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.
    Sauciers can submit as many builds as they want but please dont use leadership, as we dont want to overfeed the judges


    Also it comes with double prize money.

    Previous challenges;
    1. Soulknife
    2. Bard
    Last edited by motoko's ghost; 2012-02-22 at 03:13 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Oh this is going to be exciting. I have an idea for a build already I hope it works out. Unlike last time, I've got all the time in the world for this challenge.

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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    I might give this a try.

    Just for clarification - is unearthed arcana stuff allowed or not?

    Thanks!

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by bungo_underhill View Post
    I might give this a try.

    Just for clarification - is unearthed arcana stuff allowed or not?

    Thanks!
    Hmmm...I'm going to say the class variants but thats about it, just for the ease of the judges.

    So SA fighter and urban ranger and so on but not DR armor or metamagic components.
    Sorry for my absence, but had a creative block for the past while.
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    The Zinc Saucier optimisation challenge, now with double prize money! Eternal Tower Campaign setting (WIP)

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    I would have posted earlier, but I was busy. I think I'll compete this time, I have a build idea going.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Can I judge this time? I was going to enter if you were doing assassin, but monk, you did!
    Illud quod aeternitatem iacere potest non mortuus est, ac dis peregrinis etiam mors moriatur.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    motoko's ghost's Avatar

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by SheepInDisguise View Post
    Can I judge this time? I was going to enter if you were doing assassin, but monk, you did!
    Sure I'll PM you the builds as they arrive, and dont worry Assassin maybe next

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Eey,

    I would like to give this a shot, however i wanted to ask if the Magic Item compendium is open, and in particulair the option to enchant +to ability score on other items (such as Shirt with +6 Con etc)

    Cheers
    Baldin

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldin View Post
    Eey,

    I would like to give this a shot, however i wanted to ask if the Magic Item compendium is open, and in particulair the option to enchant +to ability score on other items (such as Shirt with +6 Con etc)

    Cheers
    Baldin
    Sure, I'm pretty sure it's come up in previous builds in these contests before so there shouldn't really be a problem with it

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    I think I'll submit a Swordsage.
    Tier System for Classes | Why Each Class is in its Tier
    PF Optimization Guides Compendium | Extended Signature (Optimization/Conversion/Homebrew)


    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by Novawurmson View Post
    I think I'll submit a Swordsage.
    Unless you do something tricky with it you'll more than likely tank your innovation score

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Blue generally indicates sarcasm.
    Tier System for Classes | Why Each Class is in its Tier
    PF Optimization Guides Compendium | Extended Signature (Optimization/Conversion/Homebrew)


    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by Novawurmson View Post
    Blue generally indicates sarcasm.
    I only remembered that after the fact


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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Actually, I think I'm going to judge, unless something changes in my schedule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    Actually, I think I'm going to judge, unless something changes in my schedule.
    Okay I'll put you down for judging

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Question, is 3.0 material allowed? what if its been updated? what if those updates are in dragon mags or web enhancements?

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Eey i got 1 more question about the wealth. I took WBL and googled it for lvl 20 and came up woth 760,000 is this correct?

    cheers
    baldin

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Here are the general rules from the Iron chef where the rules of this challenge are based on http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    eey

    I got 1 more question, how do i have to submit my char. Do i need to message you my build and all or do i have to post it to the forum myself. Do i have to put it into the table with spoilers etc if i have to message you?

    Thanks
    Baldin

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    I'm working on a build, so don't pm the entries to me. If I don't submit, I'll judge(sorry about the flip-flopping)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    I'm very interested in this contest, but I've got a couple quick questions:

    1) Who do we submit finished builds to?

    2) I see many people asking about WBL and items. In iron chef we typically just leave the items out except essentials; are we full stating out our items(I only ask because spending all that gold at 20th level is tedious).

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldin View Post
    eey

    I got 1 more question, how do i have to submit my char. Do i need to message you my build and all or do i have to post it to the forum myself. Do i have to put it into the table with spoilers etc if i have to message you?

    Thanks
    Baldin
    You message it to me(so no-one knows who made it untill the end of the contest), and yes please at least use spoiler tags

    @The underlord: Okay I'll take you off the list of judges unless I dont get a build from you.

    @Kulosle: I guess so? I'm not entirely sure(working off Iron chef's formula, I think they just banned that stuff because of relative obscurity and lack of playtesting/balance) Yeah I guess thats OK, as long as people dont go nuts with it.

    @Z3ro: you submit them to me, so far most people haven't really listed out too much in the way of equipment(you can include it if you want to but I will ignore it if it's a 3-page wall of text)
    Sorry for my absence, but had a creative block for the past while.
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    There are countless ingredients that make up the human body and mind, like all the components that make up me as an individual with my own personality. Sure, I have a face and voice to distinguish myself from others, but my thoughts and memories are unique only to me, and I carry a sense of my own destiny.
    The Zinc Saucier optimisation challenge, now with double prize money! Eternal Tower Campaign setting (WIP)

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by motoko's ghost View Post

    @Z3ro: you submit them to me, so far most people haven't really listed out too much in the way of equipment(you can include it if you want to but I will ignore it if it's a 3-page wall of text)
    Then I'm in.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    I'm assuming Unarmed Swordsage 20 isn't allowed?

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by motoko's ghost View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Novawurmson View Post
    I think I'll submit a Swordsage.
    Unless you do something tricky with it you'll more than likely tank your innovation score
    Guess

    I'm not saying you cant do it, but unless you do something really innovative with it it probably wont do all that well

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    I had an idea within a few minutes of reading this thread, so I might as well sign up as not to let my procrastination go to waste.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    I'll have to try my hand at this. I had been wondering how many ways one could play a monk without any monk at all. Are people allowed to enter more than one submission?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    The funny thing is if rated honestly a unarmed swordsage 20 with well picked fats and manuevers should get scores of:

    Innovation 1 (or 0 if allowed): Minor Variance of a well known build.
    Power 5 : Far stronger than monk, could easily be the MVP in a party with no fullcasters.
    Elegance 5 : No dips no classes with their fluff largely ignored, masterful. Also you restricted yourself to a small number of well known sources. I wish I could give you a 6.
    Fluff 5 : If you sent this build back in time and put it in the 3.5 player's handbook marked as Monk I'd not only accept it but, sing it's praises on the mountain tops.
    Ingredient 5 : Feels just like a Monk only with a few extra abilities that honestly make it feel more Monk like than Monk. It even has Wis to AC and a feat that replicates Flurry of Blows.

    and by comparison would cap all other builds at 4.5 in the lower 4 categories.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    I once did a challenge for skill optimization and I made a rule that any build that scored a 0 in any category was disqualified for that very reason.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

    Quote Originally Posted by Vortling View Post
    I'll have to try my hand at this. I had been wondering how many ways one could play a monk without any monk at all. Are people allowed to enter more than one submission?
    Yes, you can submit more than 1

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