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    Default Rogue Revamped (3.PF, PEACH)

    A thief of the night, and a knife in the back;
    In the world without sun, there is no skill that I lack.
    But conscience holds me, staying my boast;
    And I fear my own dreams more than most.

    -Kane0

    The Rogue
    HD: d8
    Skills: 8 + Int
    Class Skills: All skills are class skills
    Proficiencies: All Simple Weapons, all Piercing and ranged Martial Weapons, light armor.

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

    1st|+0|+0|+2|+0|Sneak attack +1d6, Trapworking, Jack of All Trades
    2nd|+1|+0|+3|+0|Evasion, Ghost Step, Keen Intellect
    3rd|+2|+1|+3|+1|Sneak attack +2d6, Insightful Strike, Combat Reflexes
    4th|+3|+1|+4|+1| Uncanny Dodge, Socially Savvy, Debilitating Stab
    5th|+3|+2|+4|+1|Sneak attack +3d6, Bonus Feat
    6th|+4|+2|+5|+2|Find the Vital Spot, Poison Use
    7th|+5|+3|+5|+2|Sneak attack +4d6, Insightful Defense
    8th|+6/+1|+3|+6|+2|Improved Uncanny Dodge, Lithe
    9th|+6/+1|+4|+6|+3|Sneak attack +5d6, Improved Flanking
    10th|+7/+2|+4|+7|+3|Improved Evasion, Bonus Feat, Vicious Stab
    11th|+8/+3|+5|+7|+3|Sneak attack +6d6, Luck of the Skilled
    12th|+9/+4|+5|+8|+4|Improved Socially Savvy, Void Mind, Insightful Sight (Rounds)
    13th|+9/+4|+6|+8|+4|Sneak attack +7d6, Untraceable
    14th|+10/+5|+6|+9|+4|Fade From Sight, Shot in the Dark
    15th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+9|+5|Sneak attack +8d6, Bonus Feat
    16th|+12/+7/+2|+7|+10|+5|Improved Litheness, Backstab
    17th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+10|+5|Sneak attack +9d6, Insightful Sight (Mins)
    18th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+11|+6| Hide in Plain Sight, Improved Void Mind
    19th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+11|+6|Sneak attack +10d6, Masterful Critical
    20th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+12|+6|Master of the Art, Bonus Feat
    [/table]

    Abilities
    Sneak Attack (Ex)
    If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
    The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.
    Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
    With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.
    A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

    Trapworking (Ex)
    This ability is a combination of the Trapfinding and Trap Sense abilities.
    -Trapfinding (Ex):
    Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.
    Finding a nonmagical traps has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic traps has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
    Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic traps generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
    A rogue who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.
    Also an Arcane Lock spell is able to be bypassed as if it was a magical trap (use open lock if you are playing 3.5).
    -Trap Sense (Ex):
    At 1st level, a rogue gains an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps, giving her a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the rogue reaches 4th level, to +3 when she reaches 7th level, to +4 when she reaches 10th level, to +5 at 13th, to +6 at 16th level and to +7 at 19th level.
    Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

    Jack of All trades (Ex)
    A first level Rogue can attempt the use of any skill even if that skill normally could not be used unless trained.

    Evasion (Ex)
    At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Ghost Step (Su)
    Starting at 2nd level, a rogue can become invisible for 1 round, (as if using the invisibility spell, except the duration is limited). The rogue may use this ability once per day per 2 levels of rogue or other rogue-like class (factotum, spell thief, etc). Using this ability is a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. At level 13 it can be used as an immediate action but lasts one round less than normal.
    At 8th level the rogue’s Ghost-Step ability improves, and each use lasts for 2 rounds instead of 1. At 14th level, the rogue may use her ghost-step ability to become incorporeal instead of invisible. At 20th level the ability improves again, increasing to 3 rounds per use, and the rogue may use her ghost step ability to enter the ethereal plane as if using the Ethereal Jaunt spell (except the duration is limited).

    Keen Intellect (Ex)
    A level 2 Rogue can add half their Intelligence bonus to their Initiative and reflex saves.

    Insightful Strike (Ex)
    A level 3 Rogue can add their Intelligence Modifier to all weapon damage rolls.

    Combat Reflexes
    A level 3 Rogue gains Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat. If you already have it you can select another feat for which you qualify.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
    Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
    If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

    Socially Savvy (Ex)
    A level 4 Rogue gains a +2 bonus to all social skills including Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Gather Information and Sense Motive

    Debilitating Stab (Ex)
    As a standard action a level 4 or higher rogue can forgo Sneak Attack damage for one round (meaning he must be able to sneak attack that round) to decrease the targets saves, attack bonus or AC by 2 for a number of rounds equal to his Sneak Attack Dice. A successful Fortitude save (DC = 10+ Rogue Level + Dex Modifier) halves the duration. This ability can be used multiple times on one target to deliver different Debilitations but dealing the same debilitation resets the timer and does not stack. Using a debilitating stab to reduce saves does not come into effect until after the save is made & failed. Only one debilitating stab can be delivered per round.

    Bonus Feat
    At levels 5, 10, 15 and 20 the Rogue gains a bonus feat from either the fighter bonus feat list or the Rogue Special Ability list of feats.

    Find the Vital Spot (Su)
    A level 6 Rogue can choose a number of creature types up to his Intelligence Modifier that he can ignore immunity to Sneak Attacks for, so long as that immunity is derived from the creature type or template. The maximum number of types you can bypass Sneak Attack immunity is equal to 1/3 Rogue level. If the rogue's INT modifier changes after these choices are made then this ability is unaffected.

    Poison Use (Ex)
    At level 6 a Rogue can use poisons with no chance of accidentally poisoning themself while preparing poison for use, and all Poisons the Rogue uses have their DC increased by 2.

    Insightful Defense (Ex)
    At level 7 a Rogue can add his Intelligence Modifier as a dodge bonus AC and to his spell resistance if he has any.

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
    A rogue of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
    This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.
    If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

    Lithe (Ex)
    A level 8 Rogue gains a +2 bonus on all Balance, Climb, Jump, Escape Artist, Jump, Swim and Tumble checks, as well as a +2 dodge bonus to AC. This counts as the Dodge feat for qualifying for other feats. If you already have this feat you can exchange it for another.

    Improved Flanking (Ex)
    A rogue of 9th level or higher who is flanking an opponent gains a +4 bonus on attacks instead of a +2 bonus on attacks. Any creature who is granting a flanking bonus to the rogue also gains this improvement to their own flanking bonus. In addition, the Rogue can flank a target regardless of orientation.

    Improved Evasion (Ex)
    This ability works like evasion, except that while the 10th level rogue still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

    Vicous Stab (Ex)
    A 10th level Rogue can forgo sneak attack damage for one round (which means he must be able to sneak attack that round) to deal xd4 bleed damage on a successful hit, where x is the half Rogues Sneak attack Dice. This lasts for a number for rounds equal to the Rogues Sneak Attack dice. This does not stack but a new Vicious Stab resets the timer.

    Luck of the Skilled (Su)
    A Rogue of level 11 or higher can reroll a number of d20 rolls equal to half their Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) per day. This ability cannot be used more than once per roll.

    Improved Socially Savvy (Ex)
    At level 12 the Rogue can now take 10 at any time for the skills mentioned in Socially Savvy.

    Void Mind (Ex)
    A level 12 Rogue gains +4 bonus to saves against Divination Spells and Effects

    Untraceable (Su)
    A Rogue of 13th level or higher cannot be tracked, nor leaves signs of his passage, unless he chooses to. He can also pass through (and sneak through) difficult terrain with no penalty to stealth checks and can hide from creatures with blindsense or blindsight as though he were hiding normally.

    Fade from sight (Su)
    When using the hide skill, a 14th level Rogue gains 20% concealment against all that do detect him if he passes a hide check.

    Shot in the Dark (Ex)
    At level 14 sniping becomes much easier for a rogue. The rogue no longer takes a penalty to hide checks when making a single attack from hiding and it takes a free action instead of a move action to resume hiding after the attack.

    Sniping
    Spoiler
    Show

    If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a -20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.


    Improved Litheness (Ex)
    A level 16 Rogue can now take 10 at any time for the skills mentioned in the Lithe ability, as well as another +2 dodge bonus to AC.

    Backstab (Ex)
    At level 16, when striking in melee from hiding, the Rogue can forgo his normal attack to, as a standard action, either stun, paralyze or kill the target with a failed Fortitude save at a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 Character level + Intelligence Modifier. This attack forgoes sneak attack damage and the intended effect must be stated before the attempt is made.

    Insightful Sight (Su)
    At level 12, for a number of rounds equal to their Intelligence bonus (minimum one) per day, a Rogue can see as if under the effects of a True Seeing spell. Using or stopping this ability is a free action. At level 17 this becomes one minute per point of Intelligence bonus instead of one round.

    Hide in Plain Sight (Su)
    At 18th level, a Rogue can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow or other way to escape sight, the Rogue can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind.

    Improved Void Mind (Ex)
    A level 18 or higher Rogue can reroll any failed save against a mind affecting spell or effect. If the rogue fails this second save, then he does not receive another chance.

    Masterful Critical (Ex)
    At level 19 any weapon the Rogue uses to perform a sneak attack is treated as having a critical threat range of 18-20 and critical multiplier of x3 unless it already is better than this before enchantments and magical effects.

    Master of the Art (Ex)
    At level 20 The Rogue has reached the epitome of his profession. The Rogue can now make sneak attacks within range of his weapon instead of the usual 30ft.
    In addition, the rogue can make one sneak attack even if he rogue would not normally meet the requirements for a valid sneak attack. This sneak attack is usable once per target per encounter (ie. once per initiative roll that the rogue makes).

    Phew, that was longer than expected. PEACH away!
    Also, if this is identical to anyone else's rogue fix I apologize in advance.

    Edit: Update and changes.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2012-05-08 at 11:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Obligatory Rogue Fix (3.5, PEACH)

    Aww, cmon guys
    I know rogue fixes aren't anything new or exiting but someones gotta have something to say?

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    Default Re: Obligatory Rogue Fix (3.5, PEACH)

    Hye, nice rogue, though I feel soem fo the abilities are coming online a litle later than I would prefer.

    I do think that rwarding a Rogue for taking Int is a good, pretty smart,
    Spoiler
    Show
    LOL is that a pun?


    anyways take alook at this Rogue Retooling and maybe glean some ideas from it as well.

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    Default Re: Obligatory Rogue Fix (3.5, PEACH)

    OK, I added a bit to Lithe and Improved Litheness and added Debilitating stab and Vicious Stab. Hopefully now you have more options at all levels in combat.

    Edit: Also added free Combat Reflexes

    Edit 2: Updated table, still stuck for Capstone.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2012-02-27 at 08:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Obligatory Rogue Fix (3.5, PEACH)

    Adding Ex, Sp, and Su tags is helpful for any fix. I know it's annoying, but it's also important.

    All skills as class skills just doesn't make sense. Even if your rogue is supposed to be a skill monkey, there are still some skills that are just not appropriate for him to have, such as Autohypnosis, Psicraft, Spellcraft, Knowledge (The Planes), and Speak Language.

    Find the Vital Spot is nice, and it comes early enough. Probably the only times your rogue is going to be having trouble is with skeletons and zombies, and then if he has been, at 6th he can choose Undead as one of his special ignoring types and get his revenge. The rogue still has his problems against oozes (since they can't be flanked) and swarms (immune to weapon damage) but those are pretty much caster-fodder anyway, so no big deal.

    In general, though, you haven't really improved on the rogue's survivability at all. He still had d6 hit dice, only light armor, and no defensive boosts. You give him a +2 bonus to his AC at level 8, and another one at level 16.

    I suggest d8 hit dice (d6 should be caster-only anyway), as well as a scaling dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves that starts at level 2 and increases every even level, to a maximum of +10 at level 20.

    Also, Fade From Sight is incredibly vague. What constitutes "hiding"? Using the Hide skill? Using the Hide skill successfully? Using the Hide skill against all creatures successfully? Does the concealment miss chance only apply to creatures you are successfully Hiding from, because if so, that's useless, if you're successfully Hiding from another creature, that creature can't pinpoint your square anyway, it basically grants you total concealment from that creature by itself.

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    Default Re: Obligatory Rogue Fix (3.5, PEACH)

    Thanks for the input Seraphi
    - Added Ex, Sp and Su tags.
    - Improved HD
    - Tweaked and clarified a few abilities

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    In general, though, you haven't really improved on the rogue's survivability at all. He still had d6 hit dice, only light armor, and no defensive boosts. You give him a +2 bonus to his AC at level 8, and another one at level 16.
    I thought i had that pretty much handled with Evasion, Uncanny dodge, Trap Sense, Insightful Defense, Void Mind and Fade From Sight. Adding more would probably end up counterproductive. In any case this Rogue is supposed to be smart and agile, and as such knows not to attract too much attention and maneuver the battlefield so he is not going to be punished.

    That last thought also extends to skills. An intelligent rogue would be able to figure out he has more use of say tumble than concentration, and will either pick his skill set more carefully or find a way to use the skills he has chosen to his advantage. Ive seen rogues save mine and my parties' asses with Speak Language or Seemingly unroguelike Know checks.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2012-02-27 at 10:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Obligatory Rogue Fix (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    I thought i had that pretty much handled with Evasion, Uncanny dodge, Trap Sense, Insightful Defense, Void Mind and Fade From Sight. Adding more would probably end up counterproductive. In any case this Rogue is supposed to be smart and agile, and as such knows not to attract too much attention and maneuver the battlefield so he is not going to be punished.
    That puts too much reliance on system mastery and the player's knowledge, which is the problem with the 3.5 system as a whole. You're assuming the rogue (and his player) will be in control at all times, but that's just not the case. Surprise attacks, indoor battles, invisible enemies, and creatures that use combat maneuvers and have excessive reach, the rogue is not going to be able to rely on player intelligence alone. You have left him practically defenseless against melee attacks with the reasoning, "A good player won't get into melee range without some kind of magical defense". That is not good design at all, as it leads to easily slaughtered rogues when the DM is actually playing his characters intelligently. AC and hit points are all you've got early game, and the rogue is lacking in both of those categories. This level 4 rogue wouldn't stand a chance against an ogre if the ogre attacked him (which wouldn't be that unreasonable, since ogres have 10' reach and at level 4 the rogue would have a hard time getting his Sneak Attack off without flanking). A level 3 rogue would be absolutely slaughtered by the CR 3 assassin vine, and it's incredibly easy for an assassin vine to get a surprise round, since it's a plant.

    tldr: AC is important. Don't punish new players by leaving them unprotected and expecting them to know how to use their skills and items to protect themselves because their class won't do it for them. Don't punish rogues for having disadvantage in combat.

    That last thought also extends to skills. An intelligent rogue would be able to figure out he has more use of say tumble than concentration, and will either pick his skill set more carefully or find a way to use the skills he has chosen to his advantage. Ive seen rogues save mine and my parties' asses with Speak Language or Seemingly unroguelike Know checks.
    Again. You're making the same mistake Monte Cook made. Not every player knows how to play the game, and making a class that caters to experienced players over new players is bad design and its one of the many reasons that homebrewing exists in the first place.

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    With the heightened HP and initiative plus the bonuses from a good dex id say the rogue should be able to stay around as long as the player remembers he is a thief, even if he is a heroic thief. A player who knows his role should theoretically be able to fit. I cant go and give him the things say the Legionnaire has but you are right, AC is important. In a case where he cant cut it he has a few nifty things like ghost step to get him out of his share of tight spots, but any player that is not a warrior role should know that not being the centre of attention is more important, if not why.

    Also I said an intelligent rogue, not veteran player. Veteran players will always have the edge regardless, so pumping up the rogue for the new players kind of defeats the purpose. In a balanced party and with a decent dm or just a fair CR encounter id expect an average rogue with 16 Dex and 14 Int to be perfectly capable, even with rolls as bad as mine. When partying with a few experienced players rolling tier 1 characters then its more of a group concern than the Rogue as a class. Those players could easily hold back a bit and give the new player using the rogue the help he needs instead of me statically improving the rogue for everyone.

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    I agree, the experince at a table should be more 'group' focused than individual charatcer focused, this is something that I feel monte, jonathan, skip, and the rest completely went wrong on. They said " hey lets take away everything in 2nd ed that self balanced wizard, like drawbacks on spells and taking a long while to re-memorize their spells." then they proceeded to do the same to all 9th level spell casters.

    then they said " fighters and other guys with good attacks getting off all of them after they move is too powerful, lets not give them anything at all and take away all of that good stuff"

    and then they deemed 3rd ed 'balanced' saying that at any given level any given 2 classes were the complete and utter equal of each other.

    then later Monte decide to have a cop-out and say 'oh yeah we knew that stuff wasn't balanced from teh start blah blah MtG blah blah we were rewarding system massery' which translated into honest truth 'he had no F**king clue what we were doing" I mean Monte cook is the guy who adamantly refuses to believe that at high levels the game starts to break down and render some classes and concept completely worthless...


    OMG sorry I went off on a rant there just got upset at how extrememly shortsighted those 3rd ed guys were..

    anywyas if you group is more 'party' oriented than ' character' oriented. a rouge should be able to perform just fine, just becuase your wizard CAN do everything doesn't mean that he SHOULD do everything.

    also make arcane lock a magical trap for purposes of trapfinding, it sucks that a rouge is foiled by a 2nd level spell......

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    Heh its ok im actually kinda suprised someone other than me understood my wall of text.

    Anyway ill add that little tidbit in under trapworking.

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    I'll be looking at this in more detail later. But first, you forgot to bold two of the different sections and you need to add the level that the rogue gains abillities to several of the sections. Otherwise you get the capstone at level one, as text generally overrules table.
    LGBTA+itP

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    Update!

    -Added capstone
    -Modified Untraceable
    -Fixed up some spelling and formatting.

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    It's a pretty cool revision. I have 2 suggestions for you:

    1- Give the rogue a 2nd good save. The poor thing has the worst saves in the game and his M.A.D problem makes him unable to get high Con, Dex and Wis (although Keen Intelect and Insightful Strike do help with M.A.D).

    2- Make HiPS come into play some levels earlier. Stealth and Infiltration are some of the rogues most iconic roles, so he should be able to do it extremely well. Personally, I'd place it at 8th-level or something close to that.
    Homebrew Stuff:

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    Thanks for your reply!

    I'd wouldn't mind giving another good save but that goes against my habit of giving one good, one average and one poor for each homebrew I make. Plus it would be a fairly simple matter for a Rogue to have decent Con and good Dex + Int, which would leave him with decent saves. Plus he gets a few mind affecting save bonuses and of course evasion so saves I think are pretty solid.

    When it comes to hiding having HIPS earlier wouldn't break anything, but the rogue gets plenty of sneak related stuff throughout his career, and they could be potentially abused if you could stealth every other round (stealth, Debilitating/Vicious/Back stab or shot from the dark, rinse & repeat). And he gets limited invisibility for when his sneakiness fails him.

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    Ah, I didn't notice the medium Save progression. My bad.

    Come to think of it, you mentioned that in my fighter revision. Somehow I must be getting senile before even reachin my 30's!

    His M.A.D is greatly reduced, he can safely dump Str and probably Wis too. However, Cha remains very important for Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate and UMD, all of them are very rogue-ish . Socially Savvy is a great idea, but I don't know how much the +2 helps in the long run.

    What if he could use Int instead of Cha when using these skills? It would make the rogue even less M.A.D, allowing him to really focus on Int/Dex.

    You are right about HiPS + Backstab bonus. How about giving him a way to avoid detection from blind sense, tremor sense and blind sight? Maybe as an evoltuion of Ghost Step.

    Of course, these are just my 2 cents, and I do have the habit of being a bit greedy when it comes to mundane classes.
    Homebrew Stuff:

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    Heh, no worries. I used to skim over it a lot too until I saw how elegant and handy it was.

    A +2 to social skills (Cha based) is equivalent to 4 points into charisma, so it does help out. The improved allows you to take 10 as well, which gives you better chances most of the time. Even then, sacrificing a little wealth for means to up your social skills or just bite the bullet and pump up your cha a little. But every skill is a class skill and you get a lot of skills (with a high int as well) so your never going to be far from the speaker role.

    He does get a bonus against non-visual senses. Untraceable makes him equally capable of sneaking past a Grimlock as a human guard, with the exception of tremorsense.

    By all means, be greedy! As much as I want to make the rogue OP, its nice for someone to say how about this and i can say i got that covered so he isnt going to be screwed over

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Mar 2012

    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    I think the ability to ghost step as immediate at some point even if it burn duration would add a decent "get out of jail" ability for when you find your self in the line of fire from something you can't handle. Be it a nasty trap or a surprise grapple/charge. You'll be scouting so being able to duck out of a fight is always handy.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    Definitely looks like a good approach (perhaps a bit more combat-heavy than would be ideal unless you're balancing against casters in which case it's probably not enough in either combat or noncombat), but a few things:
    1. Shouldn't Arcane Lock be bypassed with Open Lock, not Disable Device?
    2. If you reduce saves with Debilitating Stab, does that reduction affect the save to reduce its duration? I'd presume not, but clarification would be good. Also, does the rogue have to be able to sneak attack? I'd presume so, but again clarification would be good.
    3. You probably should return the rogue special abilities.
    4. For Find the Vital Spot, what happens if your INT modifier decreases? Do you lose some until you get it back? (And when you get it back, do you have to choose the same one as the first time?) And do temporary INT bonuses count?
    5. How often is Luck of the Skilled usable? You said half INT modifier, but is that per day, per some other period, or in the rogue's entire career?
    6. Fade from Sight is completely useless. If you successfully hide from someone, you have total concealment from them, so getting concealment is at best redundant. Now, if it worked against those that do detect him as long as he's able to make a hide check, that would be something else.
    7. Shot in the Dark works a lot like sniping, so maybe it's better just to make it a modification to snipe (looks here that it's at no penalty, and is a free action but still can't be taken in the middle of a full attack.)
    8. Backstab should probably be Fort for all effects, as even stunning and paralysis effects are normally Fort unless there's some nonphysical or dodgeable component.
    9. Consider moving Insightful Sight up significantly.
    10. In Improved Void Mind, what does "once per spell or effect" mean? That if he does it against Dominate Person then he's only used up his usage for Dominate Person? Also, is that per day or per career or something else? Also, you don't reroll the spell or effect, you reroll the save (if it allows a save).
    11. For Master of the Art, what constitutes an encounter? If he uses it against enemy A, and then enemy A leaves but enemy B stays, and then enemy A returns, can he use it again against enemy A (since the "encounter" involving the two of them ended and then a new one began), or does it require a situation in which he is not challenged at all?

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    *re-reads class skills*

    "Class Skills: All skills are class skills"

    Okay... How the hell did I miss that?

    *re-reads untraceable*

    "...and can hide from creatures with blindsense or blindsight as though he were hiding normally."



    And how the hell did I miss that too?

    Tsc... I should stop posting right before going to bed...
    Homebrew Stuff:

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    Thanks for the PEACH guys! Looks like I'll be busy updating now
    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    9. Consider moving Insightful Sight up significantly.
    You have me stumped on this one sorry, do you mean move it so it is attained earlier or make it last longer?
    Last edited by Kane0; 2012-05-08 at 08:46 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    You have me stumped on this one sorry, do you mean move it so it is attained earlier or make it last longer?
    Attained earlier. Perhaps not quite at level 9 (when clerics first become able to cast it), but I'd say he should get at least a weakened version no later than level 13, and preferably earlier.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rogue Revamped (3.5, PEACH)

    OK, done tweaking.

    How does it look now?

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