OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread

[Whiffet]

V is still alive, resurrection fails, Haley wins another bet, and a joke about Lawful types is made.

Solid update, I'd say. Although I'm going nuts wondering what will happen next.

[ellindsey]

Raise Dead probably won't work on someone killed by Familicide. Raise Dead can't be used to raise someone killed by a Death Effect, which Familicide probably is. Resurrection doesn't have that limit, so Familicide would probably have to completely destroy the body, or somehow trap or destroy the soul, to prevent resurrection.

[NoobForHire]

Hooray, V didn't die.

Nice jokes about Lawful, too.

[Morph Bark]

Now to get a non-LG (and non-Evil) Cleric to do it for them?

[Animidest]

Knew V wasn't dead. The suspense is stifling! AUUUGH!

I get it too!

[rgrekejin]

I very much doubt it. The only in-comic thing we know of that can annihiliate souls is the Snarl. Even Xykon can only Soul Bind.

Frankly, given the oddness that has been going on with the whole "world within a world" thing, I'd say we're not completely sure if the Snarl even actually does that. It seems advisable, at this point, to take everything we've been told about the Snarl with a grain of salt.

[Whiffet]

Well, now we know that resurrection isn't working. I find it interesting that all the descendants share Girard's views. Or at least this one. I would think there should be at least one that would want life over hating paladins.

Well, sure, there probably is one. But good luck trying to figure out which one it is.

Raise Dead probably won't work on someone killed by Familicide. Raise Dead can't be used to raise someone killed by a Death Effect, which Familicide probably is. Resurrection doesn't have that limit, so Familicide would probably have to completely destroy the body, or somehow trap or destroy the soul, to prevent resurrection.

Whether or not Raise Dead works on someone killed by Familicide doesn't matter. It's been too long for it even if it would work.

[SteveDJ]

V is alive, which is good. Somehow Blackwing is also hurt even though he can fly, which is...odd but I guess that's caused by the overhead block that smacked them both.

Yes, I was just thinking that. Perhaps the whole purpose of the overhead block smacking down when the pit trap opened - was to force anything flying over the trap to also be forced down into the pit. (and, it is likely someone mentioned this in the previous thread - which was way too long, even on the first day, to read it all)

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

It's official, V is for villain.

I like the Armageddon clock too.

[SteveDJ]

Interesting thing about the beads on the monitor. Three are next to the surface of the circle, two are floating above... Soon Kim's gate was high up, so I wonder if Kraagor's will be up in the air as well? Might be a bit of foreshadowing.

Nah, I think they're all at the same hight from the board, and their different positions on the circle make them seem higher or lower.

Actually, if they were the same level, then the one farther away would look closer to the board, not higher up.

So I think Surfing HalfOrc has it right - their height matches where they were located with respect to ground-level.

Think about it - the one in the trees (I'm bad with names, forgive me) was where? On the ground (between two trees). The one in the dungeon crawl was actually somewhat upward in the mountain/hills (they were above ground-level when they were ejected by the explosion). And of course Azure City was quite high up (perhaps even the highest room in the palace?) - certainly the rift is way up in the sky.

I suspect the gate they are looking for is right there, near the top of the pyramid-thing they are inside.

[Smolder]

I wonder if a sufficiently skilled wizard could find a way to use the monitoring device to track down the last gate...

[rgrekejin]

Actually, if they were the same level, then the one farther away would look closer to the board, not higher up.

So I think Surfing HalfOrc has it right - their height matches where they were located with respect to ground-level.

If that were the case, then Durokan and Girard's gate tokens are, for some reason, way off-center. We can see in panels one and five that is not the case. All the tokens are hovering over the board at the same height along the perimeter of the circle.

[Mantine]

Actually, if they were the same level, then the one farther away would look closer to the board, not higher up.

So I think Surfing HalfOrc has it right - their height matches where they were located with respect to ground-level.

Think about it - the one in the trees (I'm bad with names, forgive me) was where? On the ground (between two trees). The one in the dungeon crawl was actually somewhat upward in the mountain/hills (they were above ground-level when they were ejected by the explosion). And of course Azure City was quite high up (perhaps even the highest room in the palace?) - certainly the rift is way up in the sky.

I suspect the gate they are looking for is right there, near the top of the pyramid-thing they are inside.

Or... they're just hovering up and down.
I don't see any form of reason why they'd want to make the "let's see if gate X still exists" also match their position groundwise.

[stsasser]

Is Mr. Scruffy's Catbox still dominated even though V is wrecked?

[Emo Samurai]

I think... that we may have stumbled on a usable, precise definition of "lawful" here. I think that I do not like lawfulness.

[Fargazer]

If all the Draketooth family members died, and probably have similar non-lawful alignments, how come there aren't enough of them in the afterlife to realize, "Hey, I wasn't the only one killed by this"?

[Smolder]

"...by whatever new villain killed these people."
"Why is everyone looking at me?"

Subtle cut to V there.

"How about you focus on the old villain?"
"You're right... Where is Belkar?"

[rbetieh]

Hah, good punchline, very applicable to the forums as well. Meta-punch.

[Skyrunner]

Such a teaser comic! :P

I wonder what happens next :/

[Gandariel]

POSSIBLE SPOILER:

Spoiler

Show

V has just been KOd by a trap, and this MUST mean something. In my opinion she will now have a epiphany while unconscious (Like belkar did previously) and then take with resolution whatever result that epiphany told her. Not sure if she will confess to the others.

[t209]

I am wondering what if Draketooths were not Chaotic? I mean their family lives like a community and worship Girard as god (but they still hate paladins so it will be Neutral alignment).

[R. Shackleford]

If all the Draketooth family members died, and probably have similar non-lawful alignments, how come there aren't enough of them in the afterlife to realize, "Hey, I wasn't the only one killed by this"?

Since your alignment determines your afterlife, they wouldn't all end up in the same afterlife.

They were probably all mostly chaotic-good. But that still leaves members that might have been chaotic-neutral, neutral-good, true neutral, and even a chaotic-evil relative. I wouldn't even rule out the black-sheep Draketooth who actually was LG and hid it in some comical manner...

Aynyway, depending on the cosmology, that's potentially six different afterlives, and they might not allow much travel between the two. Furthermore, their souls might be off having adventures/being tormented and aren't thinking about being raised beyond the message "some lawful moron is trying to subjugate your corpse. stick it to the man and stay dead, bro!" that keeps getting spammed in their head.

So amongst those that do want to be rezzed, they're probably assuming that one of their relatives they didn't see on the other side will raise them, not knowing they're probably in a different afterlife.

[Smolder]

Since your alignment determines your afterlife, they wouldn't all end up in the same afterlife.

None of that matters anyway. They died instantly. What is there to tell? "Thanks, you just wasted your diamond dust and I can't even tell you what killed me. In fact, until you tried to rez me, I had no idea I had even died."

[Querzis]

Since your alignment determines your afterlife, they wouldn't all end up in the same afterlife.

They were probably all mostly chaotic-good. But that still leaves members that might have been chaotic-neutral, neutral-good, true neutral, and even a chaotic-evil relative. I wouldn't even rule out the black-sheep Draketooth who actually was LG and hid it in some comical manner...

Aynyway, depending on the cosmology, that's potentially six different afterlives, and they might not allow much travel between the two. Furthermore, their souls might be off having adventures/being tormented and aren't thinking about being raised beyond the message "some lawful moron is trying to subjugate your corpse. stick it to the man and stay dead, bro!" that keeps getting spammed in their head.

So amongst those that do want to be rezzed, they're probably assuming that one of their relatives they didn't see on the other side will raise them, not knowing they're probably in a different afterlife.

One thing to also consider is that, just like Roy, they probably think they havent died that long ago. See it from the perspective, their worst known enemy is lawful good and command tons of paladins...and just after you die, a lawful good person try to resurect you. You dont even really have to be paranoid to think that those trying to resurect you were the ones who killed you and they wanna rez you just to question you.

[Riverdance]

Reminds me of the hypocrisy of the phrase, "you're so judgmental!"

I noticed on the gate monitor that the Girard's and Kraagor's gates were "flaming" whatever that indicates. I assumed the flames meant they had been damaged but if that were the case than it would be Soon's and Dorukan's gates that were flaming. It also might be the opposite, and the black means they've been broken. What's the status of Lirian's Gate?

[phantomreader42]

Though V's alive, it doesn't appear like he's gonna be up anytime soon.
On the other hand it's a neat move that Girard's people won't return because they can sense the Ressurector's alignement.

IIRC, they should also know Durkon's name and patron god, and thus realize that they're being rezzed by someone whose name doesn't sound Azurite, who is a follower of Thor, not one of the Twelve. But they may just be THAT paranoid.

Any non-lawful-good-guy the order knows that can ressurect?

Malak's alignment isn't certain, but some variety of Neutral seems to fit this conversation. But if he shows up the Order has bigger troubles...

They could always try a Sending to elven lands and see if they can get a druid to help. And then there'd be someone neutral who could cast Atonement for V! And lots of fun with Durkon's tree-paranoia!

[Fargazer]

Since your alignment determines your afterlife, they wouldn't all end up in the same afterlife.

They were probably all mostly chaotic-good. But that still leaves members that might have been chaotic-neutral, neutral-good, true neutral, and even a chaotic-evil relative. I wouldn't even rule out the black-sheep Draketooth who actually was LG and hid it in some comical manner...

Aynyway, depending on the cosmology, that's potentially six different afterlives, and they might not allow much travel between the two. Furthermore, their souls might be off having adventures/being tormented and aren't thinking about being raised beyond the message "some lawful moron is trying to subjugate your corpse. stick it to the man and stay dead, bro!" that keeps getting spammed in their head.

So amongst those that do want to be rezzed, they're probably assuming that one of their relatives they didn't see on the other side will raise them, not knowing they're probably in a different afterlife.

As you mention though, they were probably mostly around the chaotic good range, possibly chaotic neutral. If thats the case, lets just assume that about 1/3 of the family were each of those alignments. If you suddenly were in the afterlife, along with about a third of your family, it still seems like it would send up a red flag that makes you realize all, or at least the signifigant majority, of your family had been killed.

[R. Shackleford]

None of that matters anyway. They died instantly. What is there to tell? "Thanks, you just wasted your diamond dust and I can't even tell you what killed me. In fact, until you tried to rez me, I had no idea I had even died."

For some reason, that's what I would expect my DM to say if our party encountered this same scenario.

"Can I tell the red-haired jerk that I''m going to desecrate his corpse? If so, I do that."

"Roll for it, buddy."

As you mention though, they were probably mostly around the chaotic good range, possibly chaotic neutral. If thats the case, lets just assume that about 1/3 of the family were each of those alignments. If you suddenly were in the afterlife, along with about a third of your family, it still seems like it would send up a red flag that makes you realize all, or at least the signifigant majority, of your family had been killed.

Ah, that answer I was prepared for! I believe that they would simply have been so deluded/stubborn/paranoid, that they wouldn't assume that the remaining 2/3s hadn't died, and were actually in the process of avenging/reviving them all. The CG segment would have assumed that they were all CG, and so on.

It seems like we're dealing with a group that wouldn't accept the most logical explanation offered if one they liked was still plausible. As long as it's possible that one of them might be alive on the other end, then that person is obviously going to take it to the man then rez his family.

Just my two gp.

[Querzis]

IIRC, they should also know Durkon's name and patron god, and thus realize that they're being rezzed by someone whose name doesn't sound Azurite, who is a follower of Thor, not one of the Twelve. But they may just be THAT paranoid.

Thing is, that doesnt change anything. They could be absolutely convinced Soon has nothing to do with it and it woudnt change the fact that the ones trying to rez them are obviously not members of their family. Which means, from their perspective, that they are most likely the ones that killed them and wanna rez them just for interrogation. And since V killed them and the rest mostly want answers, they are actually absolutely right about that!

Edit: also someone mentionned they could scry on the Order from the afterlife...yeah at which point they would see the one that killed them all, a violent psychopath, a mind controlled kobold they are keeping to detonate the traps, the son of a tyranical overlord, two lawful good people and a thief who lies every two seconds...and the thief would be the one they trust the most out of that whole bunch!

[LordofNaught]

Well, as numerous others have pointed out, Varrsuvius is alive. But for how long though? That room he's in looks small, and I didn't see any hint of a passage. Unless the "camera" was in said passage. Either way he/she is likely to die of suffocation or lack of nourishment in there if the order can't find him/her. Unless he/she can cast Sending in time. Or cast an offensive spell on the doors above and fly out.

Of course the walls and roof could be protected to prevent that. So...what options does that leave? Anyone?