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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Other Martial Disciplines By Me:
    Infernal Monster
    Malfeasant Heart
    Void Messiah
    Desolate Arbitrator



    The concept of 'martial arts' conjures in most a vision of power; swordsmen and pugilists struggling violently with one another with vicious strikes and bloody ends. But not all have such limited interpretations. The Throne Shadow discipline is one such exception. It embodies the deadly skill of viziers, teachers, courtiers, and manipulators of all stripes. In place of slashes and thrusts, its practitioners attack with twisted words and hapless pawns. Instead of parries and blocks, they guard themselves with truth and guile.

    The origin of Throne Shadow lies with the Fivescore Fellowship, a secretive society numbering only one hundred at any given time, and rumored to operate outside the bounds of fate and the Great Wheel. Known to be unparalleled in the arenas of controlling information and manipulating events, it is unknown how the secrets of the Throne Shadow discipline ever escaped their grasp, although some whisper that the dissemination of its teachings was intentional, and that the Fivescore Fellowship takes their number from those who have sought out, fully comprehended, and mastered it.

    The skill for Throne Shadow is Bluff, and its associated weapons are unarmed strikes (as well as weapons that modify them, such as katars or spiked gauntlets), quarterstaves, and hidden blades (see Complete Scoundrel pg 109).

    All Warblades, Swordsages, and Crusaders (and any homebrew initiating classes, at the DM's discretion) may learn the Throne Shadow discipline, in one of two ways.

    The first way requires you to forsake one Martial Discipline you would normally be allowed. You lose all maneuvers and stances of that discipline, and must replace them with others of the same level (preferably Throne Shadow ones). You may also, at your discretion, lose its associated skill as a class skill and gain Bluff as a class skill, if you wish.

    The second is to purchase the discipline as a feat. You gain access to it in addition to all of your other known disciplines, as well as Bluff as a class skill permanently, regardless of classes you choose in the future. As an extra bonus for using a feat slot, all critical hits you threaten against a flat-footed target while wielding a weapon associated with this discipline automatically confirm without a confirmation roll.

    All saving throws referenced in this discipline are calculated as DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your highest mental ability modifier.

    Level 1
    Lion Mouse Strategem (Stance) – Allow your foes to underestimate you.
    Lotus Eye Tactics (Boost) – Size up an opponent.
    Thought-Swiping Distraction (Strike) – Blank a foe's mind for a moment.

    Level 2
    Deadliest of All Weapons (Counter) – Fool your adversary into telling the truth.
    Sifu's Useful Puppets – Take others under your tutelage.

    Level 3
    Sidereal Shell Games (Counter) – Present an opening and punish your enemy's decision.
    Throne Shadow Form (Stance) – Coordinate your puppets more effectively.

    Level 4
    Pneuma-Sealing Strike (Strike) – Silently murder unsuspecting victims.
    Shadow Lost in the Court (Boost) – Become unimportant to onlookers.

    Level 5
    Just As Planned (Stance) – Manipulate the circumstances of a situation to your advantage.
    Welcoming the Uninvited Guest (Strike) – Defeat hidden opponents.

    Level 6
    Clear Eyes Defense (Counter) – Punish those that attempt to compromise your mind.
    Puppet-Stealing Greeting (Strike) – Convert pawns and henchmen to your side.

    Level 7
    Flow-Breaking Strike (Strike) – Remove another's significance.
    Loyalty-Sacrificing Sidestep (Counter) – Shunt negative consequences onto an ally or puppet.

    Level 8
    Cash and Murder Games (Strike) – Intertwine the fates of two beings.
    World-as-Weapon Mastery (Stance) – Work your techniques through your puppets.

    Level 9
    Showing the Secret Hand (Strike) – Attack with your puppets.

    Level 1
    Spoiler
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    Lion Mouse Strategem
    Throne Shadow (Stance)
    Action: Swift
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    True power is in deceiving the world. A hero's shield may shatter, and a king's armies slain, but in the shadow of the throne, a vizier may live in the safety of irrelevance.

    By taking this stance, your entire body language and demeanor shifts to become wholly forgetable and non-threatening. You are clearly not a warrior, but perhaps a squire or adoring fan. You are clearly not a learned master, but perhaps a humble student. With this unassuming mien, you take a -20 penalty on all Intimidate and Diplomacy checks. In exchange, you are easily underestimated. You add a +5 (or your initiator level, if it is higher) competence bonus to all Bluff and Sense Motive checks. Spells and abilities that discern some numerical indicator of your strength (or the strength of your spells, worn magical items, and so on) are disrupted, always returning a result that is 4 or so levels below the user (minimum 1) if the truth would be a higher number. Spells that determine your alignment always return an answer that is the least offensive to the user.

    In addition, the first time you make an attack while in this stance, you may Feint as a free action prior to resolving that attack. Once you have taken an offensive action in this stance, its duration ends prematurely, and you may not re-enter this stance until about 5 minutes have passed since your last offensive action.

    Lotus Eye Tactics
    Throne Shadow (Boost)
    Action: Swift
    Range: Line of Sight
    Target: One Creature

    True power is in understanding the world. There is no hope for a spider that can be caught in another's web, or a liar that can be caught in another's lies.

    When you activate this maneuver, choose one target in range. Just by reading their movements, their expression, their breathing, and thousands of other tiny factors, you become aware of their capabilities. You learn their challenge rating, hit dice, caster level, initiator level, meldshaper level, binding level, and the skill they have the highest number of ranks in (if there is a tie, you learn all of their highest ranked skills).

    Once your initiator level reaches 5 or higher, this maneuver also detects the target's current and maximum hit points. At initiator level 10, you also become aware of all Extraordinary abilities the target possesses.

    Thought-Swiping Distraction
    Throne Shadow (Strike)
    Action: Standard
    Range: 60ft
    Target: One Creature
    Duration: Varies

    True power is in manipulating the world. Controlling the flow of information to an individual is tantamount to owning them.

    Activating this maneuver causes a small distraction. A briefly met gaze, a discreetly thrown object that makes a sudden noise, a flashy flourish, a vulgar gesture, or something else. Whatever it is, the target loses their train of thought for a moment if they do not succeed on a Will save. Should they fail, you may choose to cause one of the following.
    -The target is dazed until the beginning of your next turn..
    -The target is flat-footed and may not make attacks of opportunity until the end of your next turn.

    Once your initiator level reaches 7 or higher, add "The target is stunned until the beginning of your next turn." to the list of options. At initiator level 11, add "The target is paralyzed until the beginning of your next turn." to the list of options. At initiator level 15, a paralyzed target remains afflicted until the end of your next turn instead of the beginning.

    Level 2
    Spoiler
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    Deadliest of All Weapons
    Throne Shadow (Counter)
    Action: Immediate
    Target: One Creature

    Truth is a blade the cleaves through the most carefully woven plot. It is a dangerous thing that must be handled with care, but the consummate manipulator may wield it when appropriate to utterly devastating effect.

    This maneuver may only be activated in response to someone making a Bluff check (including actions such as Feinting) that you oppose with a Sense Motive check. The target must make a Will save – failure indicates that you have cleverly unraveled their ruse and, more than that, fooled them into revealing the truth. If they were attempting to lie, perhaps they blurt out the truth in a completely oafish and obvious manner. If they were attempting to create a diversion to hide, then it becomes obvious to everyone that they were doing so. If they were delivering a secret message, the message is plain for all to hear. If they were feinting, then their attack is blatantly clear. And so on.

    Even if they succeed on their Will save, you are still allowed to make a Sense Motive check to discern the truth for yourself.

    Sifu's Useful Puppets
    Throne Shadow
    Action: 1 day
    Target: One or more willing creatures

    There is no vizier without a court, and no teacher without students, no lies without liars, and no truth without those to bear witness. 'People' are the treasures and tools of the Throne Shadow stylist.

    By spending a day's time instructing and advising a group of willing students, you may count them among your Shadow Puppets. While a Shadow Puppet is in your presence (capable of percieving you, typically within the same encounter as you, etc) or while you are capable of speaking to them discreetly, such as via a form of telepathy, they gain a +1 competence bonus to all attack rolls and armor class. In addition, you may allow them to use your total Sense Motive, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, and Knowledge checks in place of their own (if someone else uses your Diplomacy or Intimidate check while you are in the Lion Mouse Strategem stance, they specifically do not take the penalty associated with the stance). In this way, a brilliant Vizier may allow a less experienced King (that has become his puppet) to operate at a much higher level of competence than otherwise.

    You may have a total number of Shadow Puppets from this maneuver equal to your initiator level. If you exceed this number, you must choose older Puppets to release. At initiator level 8, you may induct new Shadow Puppets more quickly, reducing the time required to use this maneuver from 1 day to 1 hour. At initiator level 13, this activation time is further reduced to a mere 5 minutes.

    Level 3
    Spoiler
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    Sidereal Shell Games
    Throne Shadow (Counter)
    Prerequisite: One Throne Shadow Maneuver
    Action: Immediate
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 round

    The greatest mistake the enemies of the Throne Shadow make is that they seek the truth. They delve into the darkness with shining lights and pure hearts, slashing at the shadows until they find something solid – something true. But that itself is a lie. Why would the spiders leave anything in their web when they could leave nothing at all? They weave their plots back upon themselves until their are only wrong answers and shattered hopes to be found.

    This maneuver may be activated in response to one of two conditions.

    Firstly, it may be activated in response to you failing a Bluff check. In this case, this maneuver allows you to treat the result as having 'taken 10'. If this is still a failure, the maneuver is still expended.

    Secondly, it may be activated in reponse to an enemy choosing to attack you. In this case, this maneuver offers your opponent a choice. They may choose to not attack you, in which case their action is not spent and they are free to use it for some other pursuit. However, their hesitation inflicts a -2 morale penalty on their attack rolls until the end of their next turn. If they choose to attack you, and succed in hitting you, their audacity grants you a +2 morale bonus on all attack rolls until the end of their next turn. If they choose to attack you, and miss, their buffoonish ineptitude grants you a +2 morale bonus to armor class until the end of their next turn.

    Throne Shadow Form
    Throne Shadow (Stance)
    Prerequisite: One Throne Shadow Maneuver
    Action: Swift
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    The scions of the Throne Shadow are leaders of men, and controlling the battlefield is indistinquishable to them from controlling a court. Lies and veiled threats are traded for arrows and blades, extortion and bribery are traded for armor and agility, but it is all the same in the end.

    While you are in this stance, you add a bonus to your armor class equal to the number of Shadow Puppets (see Sifu's Useful Puppets) within 20 feet of you. You may only add a maximum of 1/2 your initiator level to your armor class in this way.

    In addition, as a free action during your turn, you may choose to loose the benefit of this stance until the beginning of your turn in order to coordinate your Puppets more effectively. Choose one of the following, and it effects all Puppets within 60ft of you.

    -The Puppets implement coordinated attack routines you have taught them. They add 1/2 your initiator level to all damage rolls against flanked or flat-footed targets.

    -The Puppets implement coordinated defensive techniques you have taught them. They add a bonus to their armor class equal to the number of other Puppets within 20 feet of them, up to a maximum of 1/2 your initiator level.

    -The Puppets implement coordinated maneuvers you have taught them. They each immediately move 5ft in a direction of their choice. If there are at least two other Puppets within 20ft of them before their movement, then they do not provoke attacks of opportunity with this movement. If there are at least four other Puppets within 20ft of them before their movement, then they may move 10ft instead of 5.

    Level 4
    Spoiler
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    Pneuma-Sealing Strike
    Throne Shadow (Strike)
    Prerequisite: One Throne Shadow Maneuver
    Action: Standard
    Range: Melee
    Target: One Creature

    The Throne Shadow has few direct strikes. Some mistakenly believe that this is because it is a discipline for weaklings or cowards without the courage or skill to defeat their foes without the use of cat's paws and misdirection. Its practitioners willingly propagate this misinformation so that their foes will not see this maneuver coming.

    As part of using this maneuver, make a melee attack, dealing damage as normal. If the target is flat-footed or flanked, and you succeed in dealing damage, then you've temporarily crippled a few of their internal organs. They immediately begin to suffocate (this functions identical to 'holding your breath' when 'drowning'), but are allowed a Fortitude save every minute to recover. While suffocating, the target is unable to make any sounds verbally and takes 1 nonlethal damage per round.

    If this maneuver is used with a weapon associated with this discipline, while hiding, it does not inflict the normal -20 penalty to your Hide check to remain concealed.

    Shadow Lost in the Court
    Throne Shadow (Boost)
    Prerequisite: One Throne Shadow Maneuver
    Action: Swift
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 5 rounds

    The truest expression of the Throne Shadow does not require recognition. It is a soft touch on the fates of others, a presence felt only between the lines of history. If a vizier who changed the face of the world is forgotten by all, as if he never were, and leaves only an unmarked grave on some desolate hill to mark his existence, then he has truly succeeded.

    This maneuver may only be activated while a crowd is nearby. A group of around 20 people all within 60ft of you should be sufficient. Alternatively, two Shadow Puppets within 20ft of you can serve as a crowd if need be.

    Make a Bluff check against the highest Sense Motive check among the opponents observing you. If you succeed, then you melt away into the shadows while your foes are distracted, either by the crowd or the Shadow Puppets that have drawn their attention. You are now hidden, even if you are standing in plain sight. For the duration of this maneuver, you may hide while being observed (using the Hide skill as normal, if subsequent checks are required). Taking an offensive action ends the duration of this maneuver prematurely.

    Level 5
    Spoiler
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    Just As Planned
    Throne Shadow (Stance)
    Prerequisite: Two Throne Shadow Maneuvers
    Action: Swift
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    The methodologies of the Throne Shadow make no mention of such things as Good or Evil. It is not concerned with reasons or causes, but in the achievement of one's ends. Its practitioners must see the threads of fate winding themselves from all things towards their singular all-important goal, for it is all that truly matters. All that one does not need may be thrown away.

    This stance is less physical and more mental in application. It is a way of thinking; of arranging one's mind, rather than arranging one's body. As such, few things can cause its premature end, including maneuvers that break one's stance, paralysis, unconsciousness, or any other such purely physical debility.

    When activating this stance, you must state a specific action against a specific target that is to be your Goal. For example "Make a melee attack against That Specific Ogre Over There in an attempt to kill him" or "Make a Diplomacy check against Asmodeus to convince him to let my sister be freed from Hell".

    As long as you maintain this stance, every action you take that could reasonably aid you in furthering your Goal, but is not the specific action outlined in your Goal, grants you a cumulative +1 bonus to your Goal's specific action once it is taken (to a maximum bonus of your initiator level).

    For example,
    Spoiler
    Show
    A vizier with the Goal "Make a Bluff check to convince the King that his Uncle is sending assassins to kill him" could spread rumors among the castle staff that the King's Uncle has been notoriously cruel of late for a +1. Then he could purchase a batch of poison with the utmost discretion such that it won't be traced back to him, for another +1. Then he could plant that poison on one of the King's guards for a third +1. And then, later, he could dramatically accuse the King's guard of treason in front of a group of onlooking courtiers for another +1. If he can then unveil the traitor and lawfully sentence him to trial for his misdeeds, that would be worth another +1. Lastly, he could produce forged documents for the King's benefit, showing that the guard in question was in correspondence with the King's uncle all along, netting another +1.

    Finally, he makes the Bluff check against the King, and receives an additional +6 on the roll. If it succeeds, the King will be convinced that his uncle is certainly out to get him.

    ---

    A vizier with the Goal "Make a melee attack against The Dragon That Lives At The Bottom Of This Dungeon in order to slay it" could read up on famous dragonslayings beforehand for a +1. Then he could chat up a few veteran dragonslayers for tips for another +1. Then he could purchase a Gauntlet of Dragon Bane for another +1. Next, he could systematically assault the lairs of several of that dragon's known kin, slaying perhaps four lesser dragons for a cumulative +4. Then, he could have those dragons made into a particularly insulting suit of armor for another +1. Upon finally coming to the showdown with his ultimate nemesis, he could show off his prior kills and throw in some choice taunts for one more +1. Next, he could frustrate the dragon by utilizing Shadow Lost In The Court to disappear into the gloom of the dungeon while his Puppets moved into position, adding another +1. And then, at last, with every magical item and prowess-boosting maneuver active, he could deliver the final blow with a massive adventure-spanning +10 to show for it all, on top of whatever else he has to bring to bear.


    What exactly constitutes "could reasonably aid" should be considering by the gaming group, if there is any doubt. The purpose of this stance is to reward forethought and preparation, as is befitting a practitioner of this style. If it could go either way, generally just let the character have the bonus.

    Once a character's Goal has been activated, whether the action succeeds or fails, all accumulated bonuses dissipate. If you wish to pursue a new Goal, you may artificially end the duration of Just As Planned, losing all accumulated bonuses, and reactive it with a new Goal in mind.

    If your Goal becomes impossible through the actions of another being outside your influence, such as the creature you were planning on attacking being killed by a third party, then you may choose to immediately shift to a new, but related, Goal, and maintain 1/2 (rounded up) of your accumulated bonus (such as, for instance, seeking vengeance on said third party).

    At initiator level 15, if the action specified by your Goal involves a roll that would normally automatically fail on a natural 1, then it does not automatically fail on a natural 1 if your accumulated bonus is at least +3 or higher.

    Welcoming the Uninvited Guest
    Throne Shadow (Strike)
    Prerequisite: Two Throne Shadow Maneuvers
    Action: Standard
    Area: 60ft radius
    Target: All Hidden Creatures in the Area
    Duration: 5 rounds

    Few aspirants to the Throne Shadow reach this level of mastery without becoming intimately aware of the threat of assassination, and the weakness and gullibility of mortal perception. This technique is less of a lesson, and more of a tool born of necessity for the would-be schemer.

    With a commanding gesture and a revelatory pronouncement, you lay bare all the loathsome creatures that would hide in your midst. The presences of all creatures within the area of the maneuver become obvious to you (though not necessarily their location - yet). Hidden, invisible, and ethereal beings, whether through magical or mundane means, must then make a Will save. Failure means that they have oafishly been drawn into revealing themselves. Hidden creatures appear plain to all, and may not attempt additional Hide checks for the duration of the maneuver. Invisible creatures don't become entirely visible; rather, for the duration of the maneuver, any onlookers see an obvious distortion in their field of vision - you have shown them the faults of their senses. This distortion is enough to deny the invisible creature any bonuses or penalties their invisibility would apply. Ethereal creatures are brought closer to the Material Plane by your command, and become visible and audible to beings there.

    Finally, the first time you attempt to strike a creature that has failed its Will save, during the duration of this maneuver, they are considered flat-footed, and you add a +2 bonus to the attack roll.

    Level 6
    Spoiler
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    Clear Eyes Defense
    Throne Shadow (Counter)
    Prerequisite: Two Throne Shadow Maneuvers
    Action: Immediate
    Range: Varies
    Target: One Creature
    Duration: 5 rounds

    Magic is often wielded as a cudgel and leaned upon as a crutch by those pretenders who play at schemer. Sometimes, one must remind them that the patience of those with actual talent is finite and, that once it runs dry, such mystical foolishness can only be revealed for what it is.

    This maneuver may only be activated in response to a magical or supernatural mind-affecting effect that requires you to make a Will save. First, you darken your mind with a web of falsehoods, allowing you to substitute a Bluff check in place of a Will save, if you so choose.

    Secondly, if the caster is within (your highest applicable movement speed x 2) feet, you may choose to illuminate their error with the sharp blade of truth. You instantly close the distance between the two of you, and make a single melee attack. If your attack roll succeeds, you do not deal damage. Instead, make a Sense Motive check. For every 10 points on your check, the DC of all of the target's magical and supernatural mind-affecting effects are reduced by 1 for the duration of this maneuver.

    If this movement would require you to move farther than your movement speed, you lose your next move action.
    Last edited by Xefas; 2012-03-16 at 09:58 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Minor note: Your homebrew disciplines use paying a feat as a way of learning an additional option, but most Homebrew disciplines use a somewhat different mechanic (due to The Demented One I think) where one finds a master of that discipline, trains with them, and pays 1000 xp. This seems more balanced since it really shouldn't cost a whole feat to just get another option. The standard wording is:

    The other way is to seek out a master of the NAME discipline–a martial adept capable of using at least 5th-level maneuvers from the discipline. You must train for a month under the master and spend 1,000 xp at the end of your training. You gain the ability to learn maneuvers from the NAME discipline. In addition, you may exchange your maneuvers known for maneuvers of the NAME discipline. You may exchange one maneuver of each level, and the new maneuvers you learn must be of the same level as the exchanged maneuvers, unlike normal. The difficulty of finding an appropriate mentor is left to the DM to choose.
    Last edited by JoshuaZ; 2012-03-10 at 03:23 PM.
    My homebrew:

    Spoiler
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    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Yay! Throne Shadow Style. I'm eagerly awaiting the completion of this.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    Minor note: Your homebrew disciplines use paying a feat as a way of learning an additional option, but most Homebrew disciplines use a somewhat different mechanic (due to The Demented One I think) where one finds a master of that discipline, trains with them, and pays 1000 xp. This seems more balanced since it really shouldn't cost a whole feat to just get another option. The standard wording is:
    If I recall correctly, the only reason I didn't copy that was simply because the first discipline I did was Infernal Monster, which I envisioned being innovated through combat rather than taught and learned.

    But, yeah, that's totally a good way of doing things. I encourage anyone who likes the teaching mechanic to do that instead. I try at least to balance it as paying something of 1/4 of a feat for it, as you get a new skill, and then some extra thing that's useful to you. But I understand that paying a feat at all is fairly hefty, and just swapping out one of your other disciplines might hurt for, say, Crusaders, or one of those homebrewed classes like the Sublime Marshal or Ranger that only gets 2(?) Disciplines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon® View Post
    Yay! Throne Shadow Style. I'm eagerly awaiting the completion of this.
    Level 4 is done. Still trying to figure out how I want Just As Planned to work.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Can I ask you to add this style to the list of stuff you are going to make?

    I tried to do something with this, but I got incredibly stuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Due to time constraints, I will be away from the forums until early in January. Take care until then.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Can I ask you to add this style to the list of stuff you are going to make?

    I tried to do something with this, but I got incredibly stuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Due to time constraints, I will be away from the forums until early in January. Take care until then.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Aw yeah, Throne* Shadow Style. It's neat to see how a different system interprets the themes. I could totally play a character with this discipline.

    As I'm crap at 3.5 rules, I can't really comment on them. But I dig it so far.

    *Would you believe I typed "Thrown" like three time before I got it right?
    Quoth the raven, "Polly wants a cracker."

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Can I ask you to add this style to the list of stuff you are going to make?

    I tried to do something with this, but I got incredibly stuck.
    I'm not sure what you'd want out of such a style in terms of 3.5 mechanics. I mean, a Commoner Style that gives you tricks versus people with class levels would be amusing, but the only people that get disciplines are martial adepts, who aren't exactly the bottom of the food chain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weimann View Post
    *Would you believe I typed "Thrown" like three time before I got it right?
    Yes. God yes. I've had the same problem.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    And the awesomeness continues. I swear to god, I'm gonna have to find a game that will let me run a gestalt Swordsage//Swordsage just so I can use all of your disciplines.


    On a side note, still waiting for Witchhunter, just in case you were curious if anyone was...lol
    Avatar by niezck1! Thanks!

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    I'm not sure what you'd want out of such a style in terms of 3.5 mechanics. I mean, a Commoner Style that gives you tricks versus people with class levels would be amusing, but the only people that get disciplines are martial adepts, who aren't exactly the bottom of the food chain.
    The way I was writing it, it could only be taken through the Martial Study feat (and would not apply against the limit of taking it 3 times), and it would only treat NPC classes as if they had full IL, for any reason.

    In other words, a Commoner 4 would have IL 4 for the purpose of the Discipline, while a Warblade 4 would have an IL of 2.

    An alternate idea was to simply allow you to select maneuvers from the Discipline as skill tricks; however, the limit would be 1/2 your level in NPC classes, rather than 1/2 your HD.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Due to time constraints, I will be away from the forums until early in January. Take care until then.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    I always read the rules as forbidding you from taking multiples of the same manoeuvre.

    In this case, I'd actually feel jipped by the multifunction nature of your Thought Swiping Strike, as it means that, unlike if it were seperate manoeuvres, i can't have access to four of the best debuffs in the game in the same fight [they're all about as useful as each other, considering the commonness of immunities to stun and paralyse].

    This is the first time when your scaling thing has seemed like a bad idea though...
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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Hey, Mulletmanalive, funny seeing you here!

    By the way, I playtested your methodology for maneuvers (i.e., your version of the Martial Study feats), and I found that, while they may be fine for a normal discipline, they don't mesh very well with Xefas' disciplines, Malfeasant Heart especially, given that there are Boosts that only give their greatest effects when you use a Strike from that Discipline in the same round.

    I also took Novice Martial Study twice, and actually found a kind of equilibrium; I think that if you altered the feat to instead read:

    "Each time you use a maneuver from any Discipline, roll 1d4; that is the number of rounds before you can use maneuvers again, counting from the beginning of this round; therefor, a roll of 1 would allow you to use a maneuver again next round.

    Special: You may take this feat multiple times; each time, you may select a single Discipline that you can also learn maneuvers from, and may change your maneuvers known to incorporate the new maneuvers."

    Then, each "tier" of Martial Study feat above that one would supply a cumulative -1 to that 1d4 roll; if you roll a 0 or below, you may use another maneuver that very round.

    Additionally, state that IL is equal to HD (which I had to assume), and you'll be fine.

    To go back on topic, I eagerly await maneuver levels 5 and up! If you are stuck on how to work something, I would be happy to act as a wall for you to bounce ideas against.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarthrax View Post
    And the awesomeness continues. I swear to god, I'm gonna have to find a game that will let me run a gestalt Swordsage//Swordsage just so I can use all of your disciplines.
    If you do, just know that I would love to hear about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    An alternate idea was to simply allow you to select maneuvers from the Discipline as skill tricks; however, the limit would be 1/2 your level in NPC classes, rather than 1/2 your HD.
    I think there might be some potential here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    In this case, I'd actually feel jipped by the multifunction nature of your Thought Swiping Strike, as it means that, unlike if it were seperate manoeuvres, i can't have access to four of the best debuffs in the game in the same fight [they're all about as useful as each other, considering the commonness of immunities to stun and paralyse.
    This is actually an interesting perspective that I hadn't really thought of. I will think on it, but in the mean time, does anyone else feel like weighing in on this topic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    To go back on topic, I eagerly await maneuver levels 5 and up! If you are stuck on how to work something, I would be happy to act as a wall for you to bounce ideas against.
    I appreciate the offer, and may take you up on it in the future. I think, at the very least, levels 5 and 6 should be done either tonight or tomorrow.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    I love Just as Planned; however, I do have one question:

    Would the second Goal that you used as an example trigger on the first attack you make, or would it trigger on a "finishing" blow?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    I love Just as Planned; however, I do have one question:

    Would the second Goal that you used as an example trigger on the first attack you make, or would it trigger on a "finishing" blow?
    The first attack. Specifying "...in order to slay it" is just a way of making things even more narrow. Deciding to deal non-lethal damage, or making an attack roll to capture it in a net, or something like that probably wouldn't count.

    Do you think that needs some clarification in the text of the stance itself?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    No, not really. It should be fine.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Throne Shadow Discipline

    Xefas, can you please finish this? I need it for one of my Draconic Ideals (the Xorvintaal dragon one, actually). :D
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