Would you play the remote support character?

[Mystify]

I'm talking about the type of character that is off in some computer room feeding information to the team on the field, giving them directions, hacking security, pulling up information on the internet, etc.
Now, obviously this is fairly setting specific as to whether it is viable or even makes sense, but assume that it is appropriate. Would you appreciate playing such a character, knowing that while you are a huge aid to the rest of the party, you are not going to be doing much directly?

[Angry Bob]

That depends largely on what such a figure can do in the campaign. I once played an artificer that only really contributed to combat as a formality and it was the second most entertaining character I'd ever played.

I think I'd prefer something more like the hacker, who can actively help the rest of the group in and out of trouble all while providing relevant information. If there were a class that could do that in D&D I'd play it in an instant.

The best part about these characters is that it's never you that the DM calls OP, even if you're an artificer with full cost reduction cheese going. It's always the group you're buffing into demigods that get labeled munchkins or powergamers.

[Admiral Squish]

I'm talking about the type of character that is off in some computer room feeding information to the team on the field, giving them directions, hacking security, pulling up information on the internet, etc.
Now, obviously this is fairly setting specific as to whether it is viable or even makes sense, but assume that it is appropriate. Would you appreciate playing such a character, knowing that while you are a huge aid to the rest of the party, you are not going to be doing much directly?

I would probably do that, if I could also play my robot/construct/summoned minion as it travels with the group.

[eggs]

For sure.

As long as there are real challenges presented to me (not just the vague sense that my character is busy) and radio or some other form of direct contact with the rest of the group.

If the role meant total isolation or total removal from the challenging gameplay elements, it would suck, but as long as there's direct player involvement, I couldn't care less how directly involved my character is.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I'd love to play something like that. Like Wade from Kim Possible or Oracle from Batman. But only if it required more than "Role a hacking check. Ok now a programming check" and etc. Like give me options. Like "Ok you can either hack the systems and try to shut them down or you can try to hack the comms and send bogus SOS to distract the gaurds or hack the security system and selectivly disable sections whilst avoiding detection in the system."

[valadil]

Depends mostly on the GM. Some GMs can be trusted to make that role entertaining. Others can't. Either way I think I'd prefer a character who has the option of telecommuting or showing up depending on the situation.

[Belril Duskwalk]

Probably. One of the major attractants for me would have to be the fact that that role in the team always seems to go hand in hand with somebody that gets to make sarcastic quips all day long about the less sane ideas the rest of the team comes up with.

[RandomNPC]

I'd play a hacker. I'd spend the last ten minuets in game, just before the party got away with it, hacking the intercom and taunting the bad guys Kamina style. The first time would be great, then the party would start to get annoyed at me...

That being said, when the story teller says "Make an X check, okay pass/fail accordingly" and goes on to the next person, I'm tossing dice at people.

[Mystify]

People generally seem to agree that it would be fun, as long as its done well. I agree, which is part of why I created the thread.
The follow-up question is:
Does anyone know of a system that can support this role well?

[eggs]

People generally seem to agree that it would be fun, as long as its done well. I agree, which is part of why I created the thread.
The follow-up question is:
Does anyone know of a system that can support this role well?

I've played a Pointman in Spycraft, which is a class partially designed for this role. It was a lot of fun, but I definitely saw more action than you're probably aiming for. One thing the system did to make the job not totally suck was giving the Pointman's communication mechanical benefits - the ability to roll bonus dice or provide bonuses to mechanically influence the group's progress. The other thing it did was provide abilities to fill in for missing group roles, which was fun for gameplay, but kind of goes against the idea of a character who's strictly support.

I can't think of any other games that mechanically address the role at all.

[Slipperychicken]

If there's a meaningful and engaging way to contribute (i.e. good DMing is in effect), probably. Having either a small drone on the field, calling in airstrikes, or commanding a robot would satisfy my bloodlust enough to feel engaged. Also, things like tense negotiations, giving enemies fake orders, hacking doors/turrets/cameras and other obstacles, acquiring building maps and intelligence for the party, plotting courses, piloting ships, designing new weapons, and directing party tactics would all be cool roles to play. Of course, visual links to the action (at least a small helmet-mounted camera) and fast, reliable party-radio are almost mandatory.


For the robot, I'd basically want (ME3 Spoiler Alert)

Spoiler

Show

Something like EDI's robot body. Be safe at the base, hack stuff and get information, but also have a physical presence in combat so I don't get bored.

[Kiero]

Not a chance. Not only is there The Netrunner Problem, but being the techie doesn't interest me in the slightest.

[Mystify]

Not a chance. Not only is there The Netrunner Problem, but being the techie doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Care to elaborate on what you mean by "The Netrunner Problem"?

[Coidzor]

I would probably do that, if I could also play my robot/construct/summoned minion as it travels with the group.

This, definitely this.

[Kol Korran]

Does anyone know of a system that can support this role well?

i haven't played it that long, and certainly not from the hacker's side of things, but i think Shadowrun has a good potential for it. more than half our missions our hacker sits comfy in the van (or farther away) and goes through the net doing all kind of useful or whacky stuff.

the player enjoys it quite a bit, feeling like the ghost in the machine. at first the DM didn't quite know how to challenge him, but he soon found out. i don't understand everything, but from what i gather it's mostly by obscuring information, giving a breadth of operating options but with a very limited time (till surveilence can catch him or the like) and at times oddly encrypted stuff and the like.

but it also takes a certain player personality to enjoy it. i'm not a techy person, but i'd love to perhaps try it in a fantasy setting if there was a decent way.

[Mystify]

i haven't played it that long, and certainly not from the hacker's side of things, but i think Shadowrun has a good potential for it. more than half our missions our hacker sits comfy in the van (or farther away) and goes through the net doing all kind of useful or whacky stuff.

the player enjoys it quite a bit, feeling like the ghost in the machine. at first the DM didn't quite know how to challenge him, but he soon found out. i don't understand everything, but from what i gather it's mostly by obscuring information, giving a breadth of operating options but with a very limited time (till surveilence can catch him or the like) and at times oddly encrypted stuff and the like.

but it also takes a certain player personality to enjoy it. i'm not a techy person, but i'd love to perhaps try it in a fantasy setting if there was a decent way.

I thought it sounded like something shadowrun might do, but I have never actually seen or played it, so I wasn't sure.
I've thought about how you would do the fantasy equivalent with some kind of scrying +long range mage, but it never really made sense to do.

[joe]

I made a D&D character like this. He started out as a Artificer who traveled with the party, under the implication that he would use his fame from his adventures to start his political career. Once he was high enough level he crafted a flesh golem and a homonculus, and went off to become the senator in some magocratic nation. He used his influence to let the party know inner happenings and what was going on, and would do research on things in his spare time, sending messages to them via magic. The DM allowed for him to gain XP for using his creations in his stead, and as he leveled up, he would build items for the PCs and upgrade his golem.

He was fun to play, and the homonculus was even more fun.

[Earthwalker]

Not only would I play this role I have.

It was in shadowrun. Now shadowrun can do this well and it can do it badly. It all depends on the player and the GM.

Shadowrun 4 deals with hacking in a differnt way where you are just as likly to head in with the group physically. Of course you don't have to.

Shadowrun 3 had the hacker back at base running overwatch for the group. This can cause "The Netrunner Problem" (in that one person runs a mini game, while the rest of the group sits and watches. Then the rest of the group play while the net runner sits and watches)

It all depends on how you handle the hacking.

Shadowrun 3 also had an archtype and the cyberware to back it up called Cyberlogican. His main job was to stay on comms, watch the datafeeds from the groups battletac system and offer advice (rules wise giving bonuses to all people on the battletac system). This could esily get some hacking and dataserching added in to keep the guy back at base busy as the meat bags were out being shot at.

I have seen this kind of deal work in Shadowrun, I have also seen it be completely horrible.

[Dr.Epic]

Depends on the character. How entertaining would they be to play.

[dsmiles]

Probably. One of the major attractants for me would have to be the fact that that role in the team always seems to go hand in hand with somebody that gets to make sarcastic quips all day long about the less sane ideas the rest of the team comes up with.

BINGO! That's exactly why I would do it. (Not that I don't make sarcastic quips about the party's plans anyway. This would just give me a reason to.)

[EccentricCircle]

I played in one science fiction game where my character was nearly killed by an alien creature while on a mission to explore an abandoned facility. He spent the next couple of sessions recuperating in hospital while cyborg body parts could be prepared. meanwhile the rest of the party had to go back and complete the mission.
my character could still use a computer/ radio so watched the feed from their helmet cameras and communicated with them by radio. despite not actually doing much it was very fun and worked well within the context of the game. It helped that my character was the computer tech to start with.

[Bastian Weaver]

Sure, it's a fun role.
I wonder if it would fit in a Mutants&Masterminds scenario... need to re-read the books.

[Yora]

Not only would I play this role I have.

It was in shadowrun. Now shadowrun can do this well and it can do it badly. It all depends on the player and the GM.

Shadowrun 4 deals with hacking in a differnt way where you are just as likly to head in with the group physically. Of course you don't have to.

Shadowrun 3 had the hacker back at base running overwatch for the group. This can cause "The Netrunner Problem" (in that one person runs a mini game, while the rest of the group sits and watches. Then the rest of the group play while the net runner sits and watches).

In out Shadowrun one-shot with a very large group (9 or 10 I think), we actually had several such characters. A surveilance guy, a drone controller, and my sniper-support character, who were all far away from the action.

[Eldan]

Another vote for Shadowrun.

My first Shadowrun game was a one-shot where five new guys were put against three game veterans. They were given 24 hours to prepare a building, we were given the next 24 hours to get them out of it again "without demolishing all of the building". We were also given pretty ridiculous amounts of money.

I was a drone controller, so I got to support the team from a truck sitting two blocks away, that was outfitted with more armour than the average tank and a rocket launcher turret, while controlling six wolfspider assault drones, two helicopter drones and four sniper drones, one on every side of the building. It was quite a lot of fun, actually, even though it ended rather quickly:

All the wolfspiders managed to trip explosive traps at various points in the building, the helicopter drones went down to an invisible sniper, the sniper drones were counter-hacked and the team was brought down on the assault. It ended when I fired all my rockets at the building and then crashed the truck through the front wall, running over two of the enemy group members.

We agreed on "draw", since the two standing members (the close combat specialist and the sniper) thought they probably couldn't get me out of the truck against my will.

At one point, the enemy mage actually managed to get me out of the truck by mind control, but I managed to get myself together in time to get back in.

[Eldan]

Another vote for Shadowrun.

My first Shadowrun game was a one-shot where five new guys were put against three game veterans. They were given 24 hours to prepare a building, we were given the next 24 hours to get them out of it again "without demolishing all of the building". We were also given pretty ridiculous amounts of money.

I was a drone controller, so I got to support the team from a truck sitting two blocks away, that was outfitted with more armour than the average tank and a rocket launcher turret, while controlling six wolfspider assault drones, two helicopter drones and four sniper drones, one on every side of the building. It was quite a lot of fun, actually, even though it ended rather quickly:

All the wolfspiders managed to trip explosive traps at various points in the building, the helicopter drones went down to an invisible sniper, the sniper drones were counter-hacked and the team was brought down on the assault. It ended when I fired all my rockets at the building and then crashed the truck through the front wall, running over two of the enemy group members.

We agreed on "draw", since the two standing members (the close combat specialist and the sniper) thought they probably couldn't get me out of the truck against my will.

At one point, the enemy mage actually managed to get me out of the truck by mind control, but I managed to get myself together in time to get back in.

[Kiero]

Care to elaborate on what you mean by "The Netrunner Problem"?

The Netrunner Problem is essentially this: whereby a PC's entire schtick and focus of their abilities is on something that is separate and different to the gaming environment of the other PCs. Thus when they are doing their cool thing, everyone else is twiddling their thumbs. When everyone else is doing their cool things, the Netrunner isn't able to help.

So they're essentially playing two different games in parallel.

[Eldan]

Specifically, it refers to older editions of Shadowrun, where moving on the net was an entirely different and very lengthy and complicated ruleset, where the game had two parts: 20 minutes of netrunning to find the info, 20 minutes of hte rest of the party approaching the target, 20 minutes of hacking the security, 30 minutes of silent infiltration, 20 minutes of spying over internal security, 30 minutes of gunfight, 30 minutes of hacking to cover the exit, 20 minute of running away.

Or something like that. Basically, at any point, either one character is acting and the rest of the group waiting, or the party is acting and the one character twiddling their thumbs.

[Engine]

I'm talking about the type of character that is off in some computer room feeding information to the team on the field, giving them directions, hacking security, pulling up information on the internet, etc.
Now, obviously this is fairly setting specific as to whether it is viable or even makes sense, but assume that it is appropriate. Would you appreciate playing such a character, knowing that while you are a huge aid to the rest of the party, you are not going to be doing much directly?

I often played this kind of character. But as someone has already pointed out, it suffers from the Netrunner Problem. When the others have fun, you're not and the opposite is also true.

That's why I prefer the newest version of Cyberpunk, in that system the netrunner\techie has to physically stay with the group to do her thing (there isn't a world wide web, just local nets).

[Mystify]

I see the point about the netrunner problem. I was imagining that you would be doing the hacking in real time, you know "There is a camera up ahead, let me disable it" type of things. Or "There are guards approaching from the south, there is a staircase to the east, head for it". Outside of encounters, they would gather information and such, but it shouldn't be that different from the rogue going around and using gather information.

[Mustard]

This seems like it would mainly work as a GM mechanism to relay information to the players, and only sometimes. I mean, Remote Support Character probably needs to be speaking and working constantly, except in periods of radio silence (unless there are internal telepathic-style communication implants, or similar).

One situation that this could work out for is if you have a player that attends irregularly (at say, less than 50% of sessions). The character may not need up-to-date statistics or equipment, so the infrequent player doesn't need to track anything. When the remote assistance player is not present, the GM can cover the role, or explain that the remote assistance character is not present to relay information, perhaps due to communication errors, not being available to help, etc. But then again, this is more of a co-GM thing, unless the remote assistance player is in the dark on GM-only knowledge, I guess.

For a full-time PC, there would most certainly have to be an avatar/minion/robot, or other such type of physical manifestation of the character to really make the experience engaging. Obviously there are exceptions to this, as even just spectating an RPG can be entertaining, but my guess for the majority of players is that direct interaction is necessary most of the time.

But if I'm wrong, and I hope I am, actually doing this in practice is better than I assume it is. The risk for the characters on-site is their safety, and the risk for the remote assistance character is to avoid triggering alarms due to failed hacking, or incorrectly directing their teammates to try to avoid patrols or what have you, could be pretty exciting.

Would I play it? Maybe. I'd definitely try it if the situation comes up. But usually I'm GMing the only high-tech stuff our group ever does. And if I'm not GMing, I'd have to persuade the GM to support a character like this, and it may not be setting-appropriate, even if finagled in somehow (e.g. it would feel awkward in that case).