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2012-03-25, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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- USA MA
Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
A character in my Pathfinder game was just reincarnated as a giant spider, and I'm wondering: does anyone know how well spiders can manipulate objects? How specialized of tools would he need to scribe scrolls, for example?
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2012-03-28, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- A very windy city.
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
From what I've seen, spiders usually manipulate objects (insects specifically) using their front four legs and their papillae, and carry objects with their two front legs and papillae. So you'd probably need rather specialized equipment to do much of anything.
I also don't know how good of vision spiders have right in front of their faces. They have excellent long-range vision, but I don't know about close-up.Bilbo and Frodolad avatar by Cuthalion.
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2012-03-28, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- A Chicago Suburb
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Trufflehound is spot-on with the manipulation stuff. It's essentially impossible for them to perform any fine manipulation; it'd be like trying to work with your fists (no grasping allowed).
As for eyesight, it depends on the spider in question. Different families have different specializations, but most have semi-decent vision. Webspinners tend to have poor long-range sight, but are good close-up and have a huge field of vision. Hunting spiders have great sight at long-range and close-up, but have a narrower field of vision. Jumping spiders have the best sight by far, but they also have the narrowest field of vision. There are actually a lot more families, but they get kind of weird outside of those generalizations.
I suggest looking into some Gloves of Man, from savage species. They're gloves that fit over non-hand limbs and give them all the manual dexterity and grasping ability of a human, completely mooting the problem.Are any of my tables still broken?Visit Beautiful Gatazka Today!Extended Signature
(Last updated 9/28/12)Linnormatar by the ever-wonderful Serpentine. MRH - FACE Mages
(Last updated 1/29/12)
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I'm hardly an expert, but feel free to PM me if you ever need anything; build advice, homebrew advice,
elaboration of a post I made, elaboration of my homebrew,my Social Security number,or just a friendly ear.
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2012-03-28, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Just to point out, the jumping spiders i know have vision like this:
Each eye has a relatively narrow feild of vision, in the lower double digits of degrees. However, the fact that their eyes are in a circular pattern around their head essentially gives them 360 degree vision (especially since for these spiders, their head is the tallest point on their body, unlike some where the head is the lowest).
And also, the grip they have would be closer to monoprehensile dexterity, like a prehensile tail. They can't wrap their finger around something (they don't have them), but they do have sticky feet that could hold things.A spider's hydraulic muscles, however, would render them incapable of doing anything that would requires using you're fingers (for non-holding) or wrist, so if one wrote, it would be in large, illegable letters. So it could write on large posters, but not small pages (I'm assuming human-sized spider). Now I have this funny image in my head of a spider carrying around a giant bundle of posterboard and paint to talk.Avatar by TinyMushroom.
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2012-03-28, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- A Chicago Suburb
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
This is 100% true. What I meant was that their focused vision is the narrowest. They can essentially see "from the corner of their eye" in more than a 300 degree field, but jumping spiders need to stare directly at something to really focus on it (spider eyes and heads can't turn like mammals' can), even more so than other spiders. For the purpose of game mechanics, it pretty much makes no difference, though.
Are any of my tables still broken?Visit Beautiful Gatazka Today!Extended Signature
(Last updated 9/28/12)Linnormatar by the ever-wonderful Serpentine. MRH - FACE Mages
(Last updated 1/29/12)
Fluff | Crunch
I'm hardly an expert, but feel free to PM me if you ever need anything; build advice, homebrew advice,
elaboration of a post I made, elaboration of my homebrew,my Social Security number,or just a friendly ear.
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2012-03-29, 09:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
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2012-03-29, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- A very windy city.
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Bilbo and Frodolad avatar by Cuthalion.
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2012-03-29, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Sure spiders have a neck slot, it's the point where their head and abdomen meat eachother. The belt slot is where the legs meet the head. And also, rule technicality, magic slots are magic-related, regardless of our physical body, unless you're one of the few creatures they've specifically explained about otherwise (beholders, dragons, maybe others?) . As long as you can find some way to hang it over yourself, you're good. I actually don't see a RAW reason you can't put a belt and an amulet around the head-abdomen juncture and have them both take effect, since they still use up different magic slots, though being close in physical space (like the opposite of a reason that a human only benefits from two magical rings, despite the physical possibility of wearing 8 rings).
Last edited by Necroticplague; 2012-03-29 at 01:21 PM.
Avatar by TinyMushroom.
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2012-03-29, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
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2012-03-29, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- A very windy city.
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Do you have any way of talking to the rest of the party, or do they have to figure all this out for themselves?
Bilbo and Frodolad avatar by Cuthalion.
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2012-03-29, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Nope, no talking for them, they lack the mouth required. They don't have a mouth like we do, they suck food through their fangs. In addition, several species of spiders lack lungs, respiring purely through the use of trachea (essentially holes in their abdomen air can come in through). Even those that do have lungs have no windpipe, and their lungs are nowhere near close to their mouths. Though, i could imagine combination trachea and lung respiration could mean a spider could make a series of whistling noises by shoving air through holes in it, it would not be anywhere close to speech, at best you would have a form of Morse code based on hearing whistling noises (or maybe sounding like a recorder of it could control which trachea its using, and phrasing certain notes to simple meanings, so repeated messages could be made through memorized songs).
Avatar by TinyMushroom.
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2012-03-29, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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2012-03-29, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- A Chicago Suburb
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Are any of my tables still broken?Visit Beautiful Gatazka Today!Extended Signature
(Last updated 9/28/12)Linnormatar by the ever-wonderful Serpentine. MRH - FACE Mages
(Last updated 1/29/12)
Fluff | Crunch
I'm hardly an expert, but feel free to PM me if you ever need anything; build advice, homebrew advice,
elaboration of a post I made, elaboration of my homebrew,my Social Security number,or just a friendly ear.
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2012-03-29, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
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2012-03-29, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- A very windy city.
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2012-03-29, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Protecting my Horde (yes, I mean that kind)
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
For communication is there anything stopping you using a leg to write in dirt or sand?
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2012-03-30, 06:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Looking through the pathfinder bestiary, there are quite a bit of different types of giant spider, could you try specifying which one?Even the generic "giant spider" has two varieties: hunting and web-spinning. That could help us see what we're dealing with, and maybe provide a real-life equivalent.
Last edited by Necroticplague; 2012-03-30 at 06:52 AM.
Avatar by TinyMushroom.
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2012-03-30, 06:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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2012-03-30, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
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2012-03-30, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
- USA MA
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
I'm the GM, as a note for everyone.
A Hand of the Mage for at will Mage Hand would probably be as effective for writing like scrolls
Do you have any way of talking to the rest of the party, or do they have to figure all this out for themselves?
Is there anything stopping you from reincarnating again? Alternatively: Find a way to polymorph into a humanoid.
Looking through the pathfinder bestiary, there are quite a bit of different types of giant spider, could you try specifying which one?Even the generic "giant spider" has two varieties: hunting and web-spinning. That could help us see what we're dealing with, and maybe provide a real-life equivalent.
Is shapeshifting an option?
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2012-03-30, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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2012-03-30, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Location
- A very windy city.
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Couldn't you always have an Unseen Servant take dictation?
Bilbo and Frodolad avatar by Cuthalion.
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2012-03-30, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Sounds like a good fit.
For more mundane actions, one idea is to grant said spider Non-Dexterous, perhaps as a feat or simply as a racial trait.
No, I am not trolling, I am serious.Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-03-30 at 04:38 PM.
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2012-03-30, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
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2012-03-30, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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2012-04-02, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- What's this planet again?
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
There's a necklace/collar that lets you have at-will unseen servant, so you could have it write in the ground messages to the party.
My extended signature.
Thanks to the wonderful Ceika for my signature.
I have Steam cards and other stuff! I am selling/trading them.
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2012-04-02, 09:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Ah yes, a Collar of Perpetual Attention, the April Fool's article that turned out to be fairly useful in actuality.
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2012-04-02, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- What's this planet again?
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Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
My extended signature.
Thanks to the wonderful Ceika for my signature.
I have Steam cards and other stuff! I am selling/trading them.
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2012-04-02, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
- USA MA
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
Couldn't you always have an Unseen Servant take dictation?
There's a necklace/collar that lets you have at-will unseen servant, so you could have it write in the ground messages to the party.
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2012-04-02, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- What's this planet again?
- Gender
Re: Giant Spiders and Object Manipulation
My extended signature.
Thanks to the wonderful Ceika for my signature.
I have Steam cards and other stuff! I am selling/trading them.