Out of control PC needs to be killed

[Rickshaw]

Greetings Friends!

so here's my dilemma: I recently took over DMing a council of thieves game. The previous DM was new at dealing with PCs and let some of us get a little wild. Particularly one new guy who plays a tower shield based fighter who got his hands on the sunblade and way too much money. He's started rampaging around charging into battle and being just ridiculous. I dont think it's his fault, though. He's new. Regardless, it's time to make him roll up a new character. The party is right about to face a high level wizard who may or may not want to fight them, but knowing this guy, he's going to force a fight. What I want to know is what spell to use. Is there a save or die will based spell that needs a true resurrection or higher that I can use on this guy?

TLDR: Save or Die wizard spell, targets will save, utterly destroys the body. (true resurrection or better to bring the character back.)

[turkishproverb]

Send them to the Glue factory?

Or use a mind-altering spell.

[Arbane]

Teleport them into the nearest active volcano? Imprison? Plane Shift to....A ROOM WITH A MOOSE?

Or, you could have Wizard Guy try to beat some humility into him. Grease plus a minion with a beatin' stick might do some good.

[Eisenfavl]

Plane Shift to....A ROOM WITH A MOOSE?

Oh god yes. This reference is great, and it shows him how arbitrarily dumb his action was, while leaving him still rescue able, as his party can plane shift in themselves. If you really want to end the character, send him to negative energy plane: constant damage and DC 25 or two negative levels, every round until he dies.

Realistically, do you need to give him a saving throw? If he attacks a high level tier-one you could just do something simple, like maximised shivering touch, to insta-lose him.

Alternatively, if he's new enough not to have immunity to mind effecting, dominate person and derivatives would work. Just make him slaughter the party/get slaughtered by, then force him to do whatever.

[Averis Vol]

oh man, he uses a tower shield? make the floor in this guys inner chamber a fall away into a pit of water. i give him 3 rounds before he fails the swim check, if he doesnt, wizard is now raining touch and reflex spells on him. done and done. afterwards he loots him and keeps his stuff in his personal vault.

so even IF they raise him, he's gearless, no sunblade no nothing.

[Doorhandle]

Alternatively, if he's new enough not to have immunity to mind effecting, dominate person and derivatives would work. Just make him slaughter the party/get slaughtered by, then force him to do whatever.

I wouldn't be too cruel; if he was the only party member that attacked, i'd just get him to hand over his phat loot, then get him to put on a stupid outfit and have him unflinchingly whirl a turkey over his head for the entire duration.

If you persist it, dominate person can last for up to fourty days.

[Yora]

I'd rather tell all the players to just make new characters and start a new campaign, or destroy their gear. No reason to kill characters on purpose because the DM handed out stupid treasure.

[Starshade]

Make an epic end of the current adventurers career, let them go against some great demigod, cthulhulike monstrosity or something, make an worthy end to the current PC's life and make a new and exiting story to the players, and make new characters.

Or send them to an cave system filled with rust monsters and xaren.

[shortbow]

Intentionally killing a PC, not "stepping up the challenge" for them or anything but intentionally setting out to kill one character that annoys you is bad juju. Roleplaying is supposed to be fun for everyone, that player is having fun and if other people *aren't* having fun (besides you) because if it then just talk to the player.

Something tells me the rest of the party is similarly geared, but it doesn't annoy you. My guess is what you are really having a problem with is the player's play-style and the gear is just facilitating it.

Not to mention you stated you are taking over as DM, which means you were just playing next to this player. That is really bad form as it smacks of abusing the DM seat to end a character you couldn't take on as a player.

[nedz]

Tower shield fighter attacks the Wizard.
Force cage, Spam Insanity until it works, remove cage.
Stand back and enjoy the show.

[Acanous]

Oh boy, another "Wizard VS Fighter" thread. I suggest we petition the mods to make one big thread with every way a fighter dies to a wizard and sticky it somewhere.

Alright, then. Let's go about this insanity...

Level 1: Fell Drain Sonic Snap. Grease.
Level 2: Glitterdust. Web. Phantasmal Assailants.
Level 3: Bestow Curse.
Level 4: Phantasmal Killer. Enervation.
Level 5: Planar Binding (Lesser). Cloudkill. Wall of Stone.

Summon Monster does a lot, too. You've got fun things like Finger of Death, Power Word Stun, Power Word Blind, Symbol of Insanity, Trap the Soul, Symbol of death... Really as a wizard, you just have to choose HOW you WANT to kill this fighter, while Invisibility (Greater)'d, flying and intangeable.

[Rickshaw]

thanks for all the suggestions and advice! I'm thinking I may just have to step up and *gulp* TALK to the guy. First though, I'm gonna have to use the moose room.

failing that, the campaign is almost over anyways, so if nothing else, I can bring the epic ending as quickly as possible.

[MonkeyBusiness]

Rickshaw, good for you for getting up the courage to talk to the guy. It ain't easy. But as others have pointed out, killing off a PC will create hard feelings, and perhaps not limited to the player whose character gets killed.

So much for the best solution with the player. The best solution in the game is something else again, though related.

I suggest that since most of the problem with the PC arises from equipment that is too powerful (and the aggression that arises from having such powerful stuff) perhaps a good thing to do would be to have the character mugged or robbed.

This will accomplish a number of things. Primarily, it solves your immediate problem while letting him keep his character. But it is also the source of a potentially fun plot. Who robbed the guy, and why? It could be a rival, or a test from a deity, or a hint of a new crime ring, or a friend of the wizard the PC might kill ... or ...

If you take this route, I also suggest that you do this in a way that the player gets a little spotlight moment (an exchange for the loss of the fun items) and that at a later point, when the theft mystery is solved and it is appropriate for the character to have such high-powered gear, that the PC is able to reclaim at least one favorite item. That makes it seem like a challenge, rather than a punishment.

[AsteriskAmp]

Why not use disjunction instead of outright killing him?

[mucco]

TLDR: Save or Die wizard spell, targets will save, utterly destroys the body. (true resurrection or better to bring the character back.)

Assuming 3.5, have the Wizard Planar Bind a host of Barghests before the fight - no Wizard goes in unprepared. Barghests charge PC, someone drops him and the next one full-round burns his soul.

But that is a really bad idea. If he has too much equipment, employ Shatter and/or use minions with Improved Sunder. If he is being annoying to other people, talk to him privately. Never kill a PC for reasons other than a hard fair fight or a plot-point the PC agrees upon. This is all the more important if resurresction is prevented.

[Anxe]

Trap the Soul has a no save version, so thats always good. The wizard does need to be prepared specifically for the fighter though.

You could also use a Bigby's Hand spell to force the fighter into a bag of holding. Then simply rip the bag.

Both of those ideas remove the PC along with his gear with no hope of a resurrection short of a true resurrection.

[kenjigoku]

thanks for all the suggestions and advice! I'm thinking I may just have to step up and *gulp* TALK to the guy. First though, I'm gonna have to use the moose room.

failing that, the campaign is almost over anyways, so if nothing else, I can bring the epic ending as quickly as possible.

A bit of a tip. Since he is too rich and over the top, just reduce rewards until WBL is satisfied.

End result.

• No having to have an akward conversation
• WBL is fixed eventually
• If you make the encouters more challenging, he may have to spend resources on recovery items

Just my 2 cp.

[Sith_Happens]

A bit of a tip. Since he is too rich and over the top, just reduce rewards until WBL is satisfied.

End result.

• No having to have an akward conversation
• WBL is fixed eventually
• If you make the encouters more challenging, he may have to spend resources on recovery items

Just my 2 cp.

This actually seems like the best solution. Just make sure to tell the player in question (and any others who are over-geared) in advance that the loot fairies are going to be on their annual vacation for a while.

[Yellow]

Take the character sheet from him, rip it up and throw the pieces in his face. Then kick him in the nuts and tell him that's what he gets for trying to have fun in YOUR game.

This technique works best if you can contain your tears while doing so, but I know how hard that can be for some DMs.

[zanetheinsane]

Create some sort of plot device that requires the Sunblade, which ends up being destroyed. Such as having to place the blade into a pedestal or statue etc in order to stop some event or creature that has already activated.

If you don't want to pick on one specific person, maybe have a plot "device" like a teleporter that requires each user to sacrifice something of material wealth, that way each player has a little bit of control over it.

Since it's the end of the campaign and you seem pretty set on just killing the player, though, maybe these suggestions are for naught.

[Diamondeye]

Am I the only person who saw the thread title and had the initial reaction "just unplug it"?

[The Random NPC]

For style points and assuming PCs don't count as unique beings:
1: Wizard Plane Shifts to, let's say the Plane of Fire.
2: Wizard casts Gate, calling the PC in question.
Optional 2a: Wizard casts Gate again, calling a suitablely stong monster otherwise just find one randomly.
3: Wizard asks the PC to fight the suitablely strong monster.
4: Wizard Plane Shifts back home.

[Clawhound]

The wizard already knows about the fighter. He's talking through a hologram. What does he care about a Tier 5 character? He wants to talk to the smart characters.

Really, if you want a dialog, rig it. Nobody will blink. No need to hose the fighter on purpose.

[Jay R]

The only problems are the shield and the sword? Rust Monsters.

[Magesmiley]

Death by trap seems the easiest...

He likes to charge in...

A hidden pit between him and whomever he's gotta charge. Make it nice and deep.

Put water or a pack of hungry rust monsters at the bottom. Or water with an aquatic version of the rust monster.

A gelatinous cube at the bottom filling the entire pit would probably work too. Hmmm maybe the cube is halfway up the shaft above the water with the pack of the aquatic versions of the rust monsters.


F B
---===----
| |
| | F Fighter
| | B Bad guy
|cccc| R Aquatic Rust Monsters
|cccc| c Gelatinous Cube stuck partway up the shaft
|cccc|
| |
| |
| |
| |
~~~~
| R R|
| R |
| |
------

[Edog]

There are many ways to go about this.

First of all, Dispel Magic + Shatter = No More Sunblade. This is nice, since it takes away his overpowered gear (which seems to be at least partly causing the problem) without actually killing him. Permadeath is almost never fun.

Alternatively, Dominate Person/Suggestion. "Hand over all your equipment to me." Same benefits as before, although the rest of the party may attack the wizard for it...

[Toy Killer]

I'm a fan of 'oh noes, unspeakable evil spirit has possessed the body of all powerful wizard, and the only cure is more cowbell a sunblade!' and then have a dramatic shakedown, ending with a final powerful thrust that destroys the blade, kills the possessing spirit and the wizard thanks the fighter for putting an end to the BBEG.

just my 2 copper.

[nedz]

Fiend of Possession possess the SunBlade ?

[QuidEst]

Neh… he probably really likes that sunblade. Talking to him is going to be less "mean DM" than suddenly pulling out all the numerous ways a wizard can fry equipment or its owner and less contrived than applying plot to make it vanish.

That said, Force Cage on the guy who's charging you and then speaking with the others diplomatically might be a nice way to handle this particular conflict. Fighter can be used as a hostage in a pinch, too.

[Mr.Moron]

Just get a bit more creative with encounters. There is no way a sword-board fighter who does nothing but charge stuff should be backing you into corner to the point where you feel the need to hit the reset button.