Is it my turn already? Where are we? (A rant...)

[Lord of Shadows]

Apologies if this has already been hashed out elsewhere, and if it has please pass along the relevant link(s).

This is mainly directed at the DMs/GMs out there who run the traditional table top RPG that makes use of character sheets, books, dice, and similar materials. Historically, these materials were on paper, and pencils (or other writing utensils) were used to keep track of what was going on. This included things like mapping, treasure, background, advancement, etc.

As electronics (laptops, iPhones, etc.) became more common, players (and DM's) began using them to keep track of things. A laptop was alot easier to carry around than a dufflebag full of books and papers. If both player and DM had one, they could communicate in relative secrecy about things only that player's character would know. But, as with all things that improve our lives, there was also a darker side.

Having instant accesss to the Internet made it possible for people to surf the 'net, or play any of the thousands of available time-wasters, or listen to music, or do any of a hundred other things. Even without Internet access, enough stuff could be stored on one of these devices to keep a person occupied for hours jumping over obstacles, or shooting balloons, or watching the latest videos.

Some tabletop RPG players, during what they perceive as "downtime" (usually whenever their character is not directly involved in current events) become invoved in these "outside-the-RPG" activities, and before long they cease providing any meaningful input into the game itself. They offer no suggestions for things as simple as which way to go at a corner. When they are "suddenly" called upon to give their character's actions, common responses include the ones used for the title of this post. Granted, some people are able to keep track of multiple things at once better than others, and they do pay attention while idly browsing the latest, coolest time-waster. Sometimes, they draw in the person next to them, or across the table from them, or - in the worst cases - everyone else.

As anyone reading this might have guessed, this post is the result of one such evening of gaming, when one player's character had information that was relevant to what was being discussed (and was present in the party), but chose instead to occupy their perceived "downtime" with some stupid little Internet time-waster game.

Not that it really matters in the big picture, but this is a "home-brew" style campaign that the DM (your humble author) spent many weeks and months preparing, and made it a point to tell the players that they NEEDED TO PAY ATTENTION to be successful. No, this was not the first time this had happened, and no, this isn't the only player at the table who has become distracted (and distracted others) with some YouTube video or humourous image. It just finally got to me and I asked the player point blank if they would rather play their game or the RPG. The player packed up and left.

My D&D experience began quite a while ago, so I guess I am what some would call an "old-schooler," and I remember as a player when we ALL paid attention to what was going on, not so much out of consideration of the game, but because you never knew when something might come up that was important (whether it be combat or simply casting a vote on which way to go). Much of the time, paying attention also contributed to your character's longevity.

Nowadays, it seems that alot of the players have a "oh well" attitude and if their character dies they just roll up a new one and keep going (much like re-spawning in video games, could there be a connection?) or if they die too many times they lose interest and go do something else.

I would hate to ban electronics at the gaming table, as I make use of many online resources while gaming. I am interested in what solutions others who have faced this problem have come up with.

Thank you.

End of rant.

[Averis Vol]

this exact reason is why i banned all other electronics at the table, barring phones, my players do occasionally get important calls so i'm understanding when they have to take them. i found its best to just be firm and tell them, "no external electronics,write out your character sheets and leave the laptops in the other room. if we need to look anything up i'll do it."

some saw this as unfair until i asked them to recap the last four sessions and they couldn't. since then i've actually had group participation, up until now my least social player had been doing all the talking (which of course i'm proud of ) point is, if they actually care about the game they'll put the stuff away. those who don't should be replaced by someone who does, its only fair to the group for everyone to be interactive.

[Greyfeld85]

It seems to me that if the player was actually interested in what was going on inside the game, they wouldn't get distracted by youtube videos or what have you.

[Talakeal]

It seems to me that if the player was actually interested in what was going on inside the game, they wouldn't get distracted by youtube videos or what have you.

That's kind of a self defeating cycle. If they don't pay attention they won't become interested, and if they don't become interested they don't pay attention.

[valadil]

One trick I found is that during combat you shouldn't just call out the player whose turn it is now, you should also call out the player whose turn is next. "Tormak, you're up. Rethwin, you're on deck." Solves so many problems in combat since players are ready to go when their turn starts.

During my last game I was displeased by iPhones at the table, but not enough to ban them. I was mostly able to hold the players captive. One of the players thought Angry Birds was more interesting than my game though. I told the group that if they looked bored, I'd try to engage them and bring them back into the game. But if they looked like they were more interested in a distraction, screw 'em! I'd focus on the players who cared instead. Nobody had a problem with this policy.

Anyway, I think you'd be within your rights to ban electronics at the table. As a player I've been guilty of playing on my iPhone, but I'd be thrilled to have a GM who wouldn't let that stand. I'd gladly sacrifice my own email/facebook distraction if it meant everyone at the table was paying attention.

Depending on where you live and who you live with, you could get away turning of wifi but allowing players to keep their laptops. That never worked for me because I live in a college town and my apartment is beset on all sides by insecure wifi connections.

[bloodtide]

Banning electronics is the way to go. Most people simply can not control themselves. They are helplessly 'plugged in'.


You also might want to extend the game play a bit. A lot of gaming groups make this mistake: They get together once a week and have no other contact with each other, very late in the day like 7PM and plan to game from 7 to midnight. Somehow they are expected to step in the door and instantaneously play the game. Of course, by 7:20 everyone is more concerned about catching up and sharing stories and sharing videos online then they are about playing the game. And that assumes everyone even shows up at 7.

The simple solution is get together early. Get together at 5pm and not 7pm. Let everyone hang out and talk and share things for two whole hours. And once that is all out of every ones systems, then they can play.

[Alaris]

Well, at one of the games I play in, and one of the games I run, I have one... maybe two such players.

One of them always has ear buds in his ear during game. At least, ALMOST ALWAYS. When he is involved in the scene, it's usually one earbud... but when I'm next to him, I can hear music in the background. When he's not involved directly, he's off in "youtube video" or "random video game X" land, and has NO CLUE what's going on when he is brought back into the game. He's one of my close friends, so I have yet to bring it up... but when I'm running a game, it is kind of annoying.

The other player seems to have taken note from the first player, and has been slowly drifting towards that camp. He borrowed headphones from another player during a few recent sessions, and vanished into random Youtube videos, or music.

Honestly, I feel like a ban of electronics would help... but it would also piss off the players, and they may gain disinterest in the game out of spite. Many players take notes on their laptops, have their character sheets on them, etc... but it's also a hefty distraction from the actual game.

@Valadil: Well, turning off the Wifi would be a decent solution, and I'd recommend it. Sadly, we play at my friend's house, and he wouldn't go for it.

Needless to say, I've been debating what to do for a while now. I know I will gain ire if I try to ban laptops. And the whole "you can just find new players" thing isn't a viable option... as I have tried to get additional players, and found a resounding ONE who may be possibly interested in joining my game.

Ugh...

[Katana_Geldar]

I don't think it's too much to ask for people to turn their phones/tablets/laptops/mp3 players off during the game. You are the GM, putting on this game for them and all they have to do is show up and roll dice. The least they could do is give you their attention.

With my group I was rather forgiving. Phones are silent unless you're expecting an important call (then tell me in advance). If I get a call, I'll only answer it if it's important and I'll declare a break beforehand.
I'll use a laptop for books or notes, but that's about it. Players shouldn't use them and it was up to them to say they had trouble printing their character sheet. Tablets were slightly better, I could see your face.
Earbuds in is just plain rude.

However, do give breaks now and again. You and the players need it during long sessions.

Provide notepads and offer to print sheets if you have to so you can get them to stop.

[Kogak]

My first DM (back in AD&D days) had a simple policy. You are here to play D&D, you do so. Phones were fine (granted cell phones were still 'new fangled things that let the wife find you during your day of D&D') as long as you kept it brief and stepped out of the room. We met once a month for the whole day on a weekend, spent time BS'ing with one another. If a piece of information was not vital to completing our goal, you had to darn well remember it yourself (I forgot the activation word to a dancing sword of quickness due to this blasted rule), and if it was vital, he would give you a wisdom check (to determine if that crystal statuette being described as the phylactery of the evil lich in any way sounds like the one you sold two weeks ago to a nobleman behind the group's back as they tended to the wounded thief...). If you were smart enough to write it down, however, then good for you.

If he felt you were not paying attention and you had to ask the above mentioned questions, your character was suddenly struck with amnesia and forced to make a decision blind if a party member wasn't feeling nice enough to give you some advice (these people would strip you down and take the 'good stuff' as soon as you fell unconscious to ensure 'peak efficiency', so even if they did help you could only trust about 35% of the time...).

Always ask for a marching order. If a player is not paying attention and does not mention where they are, I guess they had an absentee seizure and remained behind. When they suddenly find themselves alone a handful of times they'll learn right quick to pay at least a little attention. When they find themselves barely paying attention and saying "I follow so-and-so", then they will get the worst positions in the marching order and get hit by all the ambushes. Again, they will learn to fight for the good spots. Best of all, they cannot really blame you for assuming that their character does nothing, when they fail to say (s)he does anything.

[prufock]

When they are "suddenly" called upon to give their character's actions, common responses include the ones used for the title of this post.
...
It just finally got to me and I asked the player point blank if they would rather play their game or the RPG. The player packed up and left.
...
I would hate to ban electronics at the gaming table, as I make use of many online resources while gaming. I am interested in what solutions others who have faced this problem have come up with.

Are you the DM?

1. Skip the player's turn. If the player isn't paying attention and is unprepared for their actions, rule that their character is likewise distracted. Say "well, figure out what you want to do for your next turn" and move on to the next one.

2. I hope you didn't invite that player back.

3. You can't really "ban" items unless the group agrees. When I DM we have a group agreement that no phones, no laptops, no tablets - except for the DM. I don't see any problem with it. Check your phone during breaks. You don't need a pile of resources as a player - you should know the rules and your own character's abilities.

[LibraryOgre]

Once again, the solution is Hackmaster.

Since Hackmaster doesn't have rounds, instead proceeding second-by-second through combat, people can move and fight and do all sorts of things during a combat... but if they're not paying attention on their second, well... I guess the opportunity passed them by.

[Alaris]

Once again, the solution is Hackmaster.

Since Hackmaster doesn't have rounds, instead proceeding second-by-second through combat, people can move and fight and do all sorts of things during a combat... but if they're not paying attention on their second, well... I guess the opportunity passed them by.

...seriously? Hackmaster is that... free-form? O.O I'm actually curious about it now. I don't think I'm converting my campaign to it, but I am very curious...

[Greyfeld85]

That's kind of a self defeating cycle. If they don't pay attention they won't become interested, and if they don't become interested they don't pay attention.

People that just completely bugger the game and go off to do their own thing the second it isn't their turn are jerks and shouldn't be allowed to play (or should get a swift smack to the back of the head every time they do it).

However, my comment was in regards to people that just sort of drift off after a while (Which seemed to be what the OP was talking about. I apologize if I am mistaken.). That sort of behavior is indicative of players who are bored.

[Ashtagon]

House rule where I play is no personal electronics. A mobile phone, either on the table or in a pocket, is okay, as long as the player understands that this is purely so that he can be contacted by people outside the game in case of an emergency.

The GM has full electronics access as needed to present the adventure. He may choose to designate one player to have electronics access, on the understanding that this is purely to have access to any pdf files stored locally in order to check rules. Everyone else is on paper only.

[horseboy]

Meh,

"Back in the day" it was dice stacking. Not only did it distract one person, but the whole table, then it fell and everybody had to go find their dice. Or it was somebody drawing boobs on a spare piece of paper, or it was trying to figure out where the Cheetoes went, or somebody's kid. There's always been distractions and distracting players it's not electronics's fault. It's something you've got to learn to deal with as a GM. Though it is nice to vent about it once in a while.

[Brauron]

My rule is no laptops at the table except for the DM's (me). I ran a CofC game a while back set in the modern day and based off of UFO conspiracy material, so I allowed the players to use their laptops and Wikipedia to research the stuff they were dealing with in game -- I figured it would make things a little more interesting and engaging.

Within two minutes the players were IMing cat memes to each other.

So now no laptops, and I ask players to silence their phones as well. I'd love to be able to ask them to turn their phones off (several of my players actually do anyways), but one of my players has a crazy mother who, if she doesn't answer the phone when her mom calls, assumes she's been kidnapped.

[Edog]

Meh,

"Back in the day" it was dice stacking. Not only did it distract one person, but the whole table, then it fell and everybody had to go find their dice. Or it was somebody drawing boobs on a spare piece of paper, or it was trying to figure out where the Cheetoes went, or somebody's kid. There's always been distractions and distracting players it's not electronics's fault. It's something you've got to learn to deal with as a GM. Though it is nice to vent about it once in a while.

You have a good point. I remember my dice-stacking days, before everyone in the group got a laptop. But that's not to say electronics are entirely blameless.

The internet (from a phone/laptop/whatever) is a much more interesting distraction than a pencil and paper, and some players are more easily distracted than others. These players should probably be asked to at least disable the internet on their devices, and shouldn't be playing any games either, unless their character is out of action for a long while for some reason.

That said, people need breaks from the game. They can't focus on it forever. So at the end of a tough battle, or when the characters head off to rest, take a rest for a while. It'll help everyone; you too, you'll get a chance to go over the next part of the adventure. Don't be afraid to call a stop if people are starting to lose focus.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Honestly, just ban the electronics. You don't need more than one, possibly two laptops to look things up, one is the DM's and the other needs to be laying somewhere away from the table. Phones? I don't care if htey're smart phones or not, but if they're being used it better be either an important call or an important text message.

The problem is people are so used to being connected o everything all the time it's not natural for them to disconnect anymore, it's not a lack of respect or a lack of caring, it's just a behavior that's so common it's become natural and you actually need to tell people to not do it and set rules against it otherwise the default reaction for most people is "They didn't say anything so it's ok.".

[DigoDragon]

As a less stringent policy, you can allow electronics, just change the password of your wireless network. Though this assumes any neighbors with wireless networks also password protect those. Usually they do, but occasionally there's the unsecured line...

[Gravitron5000]

One of the players thought Angry Birds was more interesting than my game though.

This is a perfect excuse to have that player's character attacked by some angry birds. Queue up the raptorian barbarian ambush!

[Ozreth]

Just use old school initiative. Everybody declares actions first, then initiative is rolled and the action unfolds. This way there is no waiting around for your turn. Then initiative is re rolled every round. Keeps you on your toes.

[valadil]

This is a perfect excuse to have that player's character attacked by some angry birds. Queue up the raptorian barbarian ambush!

I. Er...

Why didn't I think of that?!

[LibraryOgre]

...seriously? Hackmaster is that... free-form? O.O I'm actually curious about it now. I don't think I'm converting my campaign to it, but I am very curious...

Sure. Each second, you can move about the battlefield, and you can make attacks as fast as your weapon will allow.

And, if you're curious, you can currently get 5 copies of the Hackmaster Basic book for $25 dollars plus S&H from KenzerCo as they make way for the Player's Handbook (HMB is a full game, just with fewer options than the not-yet-released-in-print Player's Handbook).

This is a perfect excuse to have that player's character attacked by some angry birds. Queue up the raptorian barbarian ambush!

When in doubt, Umber Hulks.

[Thinker]

My gaming group and I haven't played in a sit-down P&P game for years now. We play online using Maptool, Dicelog, and Mumble every week (two campaigns by different DMs alternating by weekend). By virtue of how we play, everyone constantly has access to everything on the internet, their entire Steam game libraries, IM, email, etc. We never seem to have a problem with people being distracted. We simply make sure to engage each player when there is no combat.

[Madwand99]

One solution I don't reccommend for every group, but that I've seen work very well in the past could work for you: Only roll initiative once per group. i.e., either the enemy or the PCs go first. Each group goes in turn, acting in the order they choose. When it's the PCs turn, they can act in any order they decide as a group. This requires somewhat more attention as the PCs have to be paying attention to make the best decision about when they want to act. If they are too involved in a game... they never act.

Oh yeah... and I would flat out ban playing games/web browsing/music. If you refuse to pay attention, leave the game.

[Dsurion]

Hmm, I've never had a problem with laptops, but then I've never been in a game where everyone was using one. Almost always, I, or the DM has a laptop open solely for being ready to search for things. Everyone else seems to simply respect leaving them away/out of reach otherwise.

Phones are a little different. We don't ban them, but we make certain to collectively stare the person down that's holding up the group until they're finished, to lay on the pressure if the call/text/whatever isn't important.

[Scowling Dragon]

Dice stacking has to do more with your body screaming in mental anguish as it demanded to do something.
I gave both my players finger gum and dice stackin disapears.

I would suggest only GMs being allowed a labtop as it is incredibly usefull for gms who need 5 books at a time, unlike players that need only 3 papers.

[Lord Torath]

I would recommend a Ban on electronics that aren't the DM's. But don't spring it on them at the start of the session. Discuss it with them as you wrap up for the night (or whenever you end your sessions), and let them know you'd like to implement it for the next session to see how it goes.

Again, I'd allow phones to remain on, but off the table. Headphones are right out.

Again let, them know that you enjoy playing with them, but not when they're not paying attention.

I suspect that if you discuss it with them reasonably and rationally, any who really enjoy playing with you won't have a problem with it.

[SowZ]

As a DM, I've found fifteen minute breaks every hour and a half are helpful in this regard.

[nedz]

What you need is an EMP device

I've never really had this problem. One of my players uses a lap top for spell lists spreadsheets, but then he is playing a high level Cleric with a Wizard Cohort. He uses it to look things up sometimes also, and for the parties loot list spreadsheet. I don't bother with a laptop personally.

I have had to deal with other distractions, but they're generally external things which interrupt the player.