How far will you go to ''fix'' a player?

[kaomera]

Either when you GM, or a fellow player, or really even a GM...

Specifically, if someone's having / causing problems with the game you're playing, how much are you willing to either change things or spend time trying to ''educate'' the player in question, as opposed to just asking them to leave the group?

For me, and I'm think probably for most gamers, it depends a lot on what exactly the problem is. But I think that, personally, I can end up putting a lot more effort in than is really worth it. Some players just aren't going to (or even don't want to) ''get it'', and some who I may feel are being left out actually want to hang out with the rest of the group far more than they want to be deeply invested in the game...

[Ironvyper]

3 strike rule. I explain the problem and ask you to stop twice. 3rd time your out. Adios.

Life is too damn short to clog it up with people who want to screw up your hobby time for whatever jackass reason they have.

[Ashtagon]

I took a player to the vet once.

[NOhara24]

Like the OP, it depends on what the problem is. I'll give almost everyone a second chance. But I have ZERO tolerance for being late to a session. If you call ahead and say you're going to be late before the session has started, great. If you call me a half hour after the session has started and say you're showing up late, don't even bother showing up.

[Grinner]

Like the OP, it depends on what the problem is. I'll give almost everyone a second chance. But I have ZERO tolerance for being late to a session. If you call ahead and say you're going to be late before the session has started, great. If you call me a half hour after the session has started and say you're showing up late, don't even bother showing up.

That's kind of harsh. I can understand that policy if they just wander in an hour or two after the game starts, but what if they have a legitimate problem and can't contact you? It happens.

[Zerter]

Our party used to have two big problem players, at first we just accepted the problems since neither had personalities that seemed open to dealing with them (another problem was that they had a relationship in which they kept confirming to each other that they functioned perfectly). As time went on the problems persisted and got bigger, eventually I felt we really needed to deal with it and wrote a huge email describing the problems as non-confrontational as possible in hopes of adressing them. They never returned again.

The lesson? You don't let stuff fester and deal with stuff, and if it does not work it does not work. We should have dealt with it a lot sooner instead of letting it suck joy out of the game for months. They would have probably have left since neither was ready to be put in touch with reality, but at least the rest of the party would have been able to pick up from there much sooner.

[Shadowknight12]

Step 1:

Detect the problem.

Step 2:

Analyse the problem.

Step 3:

Organise a coherent explanation for the player. Come up with several different solutions for the problem.

Step 4:

Engage the player in an OOC talk. Deploy the results of Step 3.

Step 5:

Listen to player feedback. Adjust potential solutions in accordance.

Step 6:

Propose solutions. Repeat steps 5 and 6 until compromise has been reached.

Step 7:

If compromise is unreachable, dislodge player from group or self-terminate involvement with group.

Step 8:

Find new player or new group.

[theflyingkitty]

My plan is to bring in 1-2 more experienced players to maybe influence my little newblets, while setting a few new ground rules.

[Saladman]

In one sense, not very far at all. I've learned not to game with people I don't get along with, and also that if you get into a dynamic where you're responsible for fixing someone else's behavior you've already lost. So it's not necessarily my job to be someone else's life coach just so they can game with me.

What I do make an effort to do though is to talk to people early and honestly about any concerns I have. With the exception of really major breaches that warrant getting booted for a first offense, I don't want anything to come as a surprise. Its easy if you don't like confrontation to hope some behavior is going to get better without you saying anything, but that's really false, and a disservice to whoever's annoying you.

[Slipperychicken]

Ask other players/GM how they feel about the problem and what should be done. Tell the player, directly, what the problem is. Get feedback, find solutions if any are available. If it's not resolvable, and truly is an issue, get the player or yourself to leave the group.



You see a problem? Get it fixed, whatever it takes, because it's not getting better on its own.


Do not leave "hints", or "imply" a problem exists. That doesn't work. Tell the player/GM to fix it, or one of you leaves. You're not his mommy, it's not your job to *fix* anyone.

[Oracle_Hunter]

You don't fix the Players, you fix the game

Nobody responds well to being "fixed;" they'll only change if they want to change. In general, if someone has a problem with your game it is up to you (the GM) to either tweak the game to accommodate their preferences or boot them out before they become a problem for the other Players.

Personally, I never found it to be a matter of time in these situations, but rather one of degree. I do my best to alter my games to work for Players with eccentric preferences -- more combat for the Hack & Slasher, less table talk for the Real Roleplayer -- but there is always a limit. Sometimes it is simply a matter of the game: I once booted an excellent roleplayer from a D&D game because she didn't want to go into dungeons and slay dragons and was becoming disruptive as a result. I would have happily run a WW game for her, but never another D&D game. For others it is just a matter of playstyles: I refuse to DM for another Player who cannot keep from trying to be the DM and tell her own story rather than do what the group wants. I will gladly play in her games, but I cannot have her as a Player.

[Solaris]

I took a player to the vet once.

You really only have to do it once, too. All the rest just fall in line after that...

[bloodtide]

In general, I will go to any length to 'fix' a player...most often through manipulation and not even having the play known that they are 'fixed'.

Right from the start I'll just go with 'the player won't get it' and skip all the touchy feely stuff.

And, as I'm a good manipulator, this fixes most of the problems.


Though I'm a bit tough on the whole being late thing. It's fine if Timmy did fall down a well and you had to climb down and save him while stopping a Nazi invasion with some animated suits of armor. That stuff happens to everyone every so often. But here in the 21st century, even if your climbing down a well, you can use your cell phone to make a call. And if your life is just to dumb and busy that you can't make it to the game on time for whatever crazy reasons....then we don't even want you to bother to show up at all.

[Lord Tyger]

Though I'm a bit tough on the whole being late thing. It's fine if Timmy did fall down a well and you had to climb down and save him while stopping a Nazi invasion with some animated suits of armor. That stuff happens to everyone every so often. But here in the 21st century, even if your climbing down a well, you can use your cell phone to make a call. And if your life is just to dumb and busy that you can't make it to the game on time for whatever crazy reasons....then we don't even want you to bother to show up at all.

I'm in a car accident. I have a lot of phone calls to make, to the police, to my insurance company, to AAA, to my parents, etc, plus stuff to sort out on the ground. I'm sorry, but my GM is nowhere near the top of that list.

Someone close to me is seriously hurt. Again, probably a fair amount of calls I have to make, doing whatever I can for the person, stressing out over them- I might call the GM, but it's not going to be my top priority.

I lose my coat. This has my wallet in it, with my Student ID, meaning I now can't take the bus to get to my off-campus game session. It also has my phone it meaning, oh look, I can't call.

If someone's just blowing the session off that's one thing, but there are plenty of things that can take precedence over not only showing up, but even calling the GM right away.

[bloodtide]

I'm in a car accident. I have a lot of phone calls to make, to the police, to my insurance company, to AAA, to my parents, etc, plus stuff to sort out on the ground. I'm sorry, but my GM is nowhere near the top of that list.

Someone close to me is seriously hurt. Again, probably a fair amount of calls I have to make, doing whatever I can for the person, stressing out over them- I might call the GM, but it's not going to be my top priority.

I lose my coat. This has my wallet in it, with my Student ID, meaning I now can't take the bus to get to my off-campus game session. It also has my phone it meaning, oh look, I can't call.

If someone's just blowing the session off that's one thing, but there are plenty of things that can take precedence over not only showing up, but even calling the GM right away.

This was kinda my point.

Ok, if your in a car accident on the day of the game within a couple hours of the start time, I'm fine with not getting a call. Or if a close friend or family member is hurt like that, i'm fine with no call.

Losing your coat or phone and having no way to contact me. Well, this would be one of them ''once in a life time'' events. I'd let this slide once. But I'd still wonder why they could not spare the thirty seconds it would have taken to make the call(as everyone has a cell phone, and even buildings have phones in them on 'land lines'.) and say ''I lost everything, won't make it tonight''.

But, really, other then the incredibly extreme and rare event that should only happen maybe twice a year, you will always be able to call and let the GM know you won't be at the game. Even days before.

And, just personality, I have zero tolerance for the people with messed up lives that have 'false emergencies' like every freaking day. Not that I care about there life, but don't even bother to tell me ''Oh, I'd love to join your group'' or ''I'll be there to game'' or such, just save us all some time and say ''my life is so messed up that I can't game.''

[Mastikator]

Like the OP, it depends on what the problem is. I'll give almost everyone a second chance. But I have ZERO tolerance for being late to a session. If you call ahead and say you're going to be late before the session has started, great. If you call me a half hour after the session has started and say you're showing up late, don't even bother showing up.

Agreed.

In my old group we once had a guy who was always late by at least 30 minutes, sometimes an hour. One time, one of us said that we should shame him when he comes for being late.
And we did. Because we all thought it was obnoxious.

He was never late again.

If someone is doing something wrong that everyone dislikes, use peer pressure. You're not a bad person for doing it, it's a powerful method and it works.

[NOhara24]

-snip-

I suppose I should get into why I'm so jaded against people being late; it all started in the last game that I was in.

Our set meeting time was 9 PM every Saturday. We had one guy who would work until 9:30 on saturdays, so he was typically an hour or so late. When he would give his dungeon tiles to the DM before the session so we could start on time, that wasn't an issue. But as the campaign went on and his character got more and more irrelevant (story and battle-wise) he just started being rude.

He started having his girlfriend at the time (a player in the party) pick him up from work, so naturally that pushed their arrival time back even further. Even worse? He stopped giving his dungeon tiles to the DM before the game started. So, it got to a point where he KNEW that we couldn't start the game without him (or so he thought). So we've got 2 players habitually showing up late, and one player making the other 5 people (including the DM) start the session late.

This was happening every session. Even on days where he would get out of work early, he'd be late. We'd call him, and he'd say "Yeah I'm on my way I just stopped to get some food." It was a half hour after the session was supposed to start, and he stopped to get food.

The campaign eventually ended, but toward the end we realized that if we started at 9PM, he would always show up right in time for the first fight of the night. He was very much a fan of roleplay, so he missed a good chunk of the end of the campaign because he didn't change his ways. We got our revenge in the end.

Between that, and I excluded him from my own campaign. Myself and my players are glad that he's not participating.

[Acanous]

We have a few rules, they're pretty easy to follow, and they're made clear before you start coming to the game.

1: Do not show up drunk, or drink at the table.
This one's pretty easy, we game in the afternoon. It was a problem for one player, he was eventually booted because of his drunken antics.

2: IC drama is IC, no fighting at the table.
You don't come to the game to argue and fight with the other hobbeyists. If you can't keep IC and OOC seperate, you can't game with us.
IC vengeance for IC slights is totally OK, though, and we've had entire sessions of player backstabbing.

3: Call before session if you cannot make it or are going to be late.
The DM will call YOU if you are not at the table at the designated time to find out why you're not there. Most things that would cause you to miss a session, you'll know about in advance. Most things that cause you to be late, you'll be able to call and let us know about. In the rare occasion where you can't be reached, we count you as a no-show and continue playing, which brings us to 4:

4: If you miss three sessions in a row, you are out.
Look, we all know D&D isn't the biggest priority in life. You have work, relatives, relationships. You might have legal things to deal with. You could get sick. That's all fine. You can miss one session with no worries. If you're going on vacation, or circumstances have otherwise alligned you with a string of bad luck, you can miss two. We won't be mad.
If you miss three sessions in a row, you're obviously not willing to give the session the same level of commitment as the rest of the gaming table. We aren't all serious bzns about it, but you ARE wasting the effort and time of 6 other people.
At this point, we open your spot to someone else who will make an effort to show up.
No hard feelings, but you were demonstratably not concerned with being in the session anyway.

[Jay R]

One issue you should always ask when their is an issue between players: are you sure who needs to be fixed?

In the words of Pasquale's guardian angel, "Tolerance is important. You never know when you're the one being tolerated."

[bloodtide]

One issue you should always ask when their is an issue between players: are you sure who needs to be fixed?

In the words of Pasquale's guardian angel, "Tolerance is important. You never know when you're the one being tolerated."

Everyone needs to be fixed! Everyone is wrong! Muhahahahaa!

Tolerance is for other people....my way is the right way as it not only makes sense, but it only realizes on your personal actions. I don't go for the idea that ''you should act a certain way and blindly hope that others will do so too'', I go for ''you should act in such a way to make things good for yourself, no matter the actions of others''.

[bokodasu]

Huh. I don't mind players being late, as long as they're not disruptive coming in. The ones who can't be bothered to show up on time are usually the least-missed, anyway. But I can see how it would be different in a small, close-knit group.

Usually I try to be pretty mellow - if it's a matter of adding more X to make a problem player happy, I'm happy to add more X (whether that's roleplay, combat, puzzles, whatever), as long as it doesn't disrupt the game for everyone else. If it's someone who's too dumb to figure out how to play the game but they're having fun anyway, I put another player in charge of handling them (helping them calculate their bonuses, figuring out what their spells do, etc.) I haven't ever noticed them learning from the experience (getting "fixed"), but as long as everyone's having fun that's ok. (Again, something that wouldn't work in a small group.) I "fix" things like players taking too long in combat or not paying attention by saying "ok, you delay, let (the person handling initiative) know when you're ready" and that seems to shape them up pretty quickly.

I've only had to take a problem player aside a handful of times (usually as GM, once as a fellow player)- two made astonishing turnarounds from selfish, steal-from-the-party, me-first players to real solid team players, two quit the group, and one had a dice-throwing tantrum. (That player was 12 at the time, so it was forgivable. I mean, we kicked him out of the group, but he would be welcome back if he wanted to play again now - I'm sure he's matured in the last 20 years.)

[JustPlayItLoud]

I've always found that how much I'm willing to help out a player/game/situation or whatever to be directly proportional to what the total game would benefit by resolving the situation.

If they're not that good or useful, but everyone likes them, it's probably worth it to try to work out their disruptive behavior because they could make the game more fun.

If they're kind of quiet and don't know anyone really well, but are capable of large contributions to the party effort, that's also worth it to try and help them out.

If I really like someone but they're disruptive, inattentive, and simply don't contribute much, I'm not going to do much before quietly edging them out of the game.

Basically, the lengths to which you go to make a difference should be roughly equal to amount of a difference you can make.