Results 1 to 30 of 40
Thread: Need a level for a spell
-
2012-04-06, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Here
- Gender
Need a level for a spell
Volatile Interference
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz ?
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: 1 creature or object within range
Effect: Blue aura appears around the target, then becomes invisible
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: Yes
You apply a special layer of chaotic arcane energy to a nearby target, which will melt down when itself or other effects are removed. If, while Volatile Interference is in effect, the target has Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, or Break Enchantment cast on it, or enters an Anti-Magic Field, it will receive 1d6 untyped damage per caster level (uncapped), and Volatile Interference will end if it hadn't already.
This spell doesn't stack with itself and cannot be removed by the initial caster. Furthermore, the caster cannot use Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, or Break Enchantment on the target.
Basically a neat way to dispatch enemies that have buffers around to help them. So, what shall it be?Last edited by Phosphate; 2012-04-07 at 02:17 AM.
-
2012-04-06, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Need a level for a spell
What happens if the original caster casts Dispel Magic on the target?
I'd say probably level 6. It's untyped and allows no save or SR, which is pretty good, and is uncapped, but on the other hand it is single-target and requires other effects to do damage (i.e. debuffs to force a dispel or an actual dispel done by your party.)
-
2012-04-06, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Midwest, not Middle East
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
I'm confused. You go in to combat, cast this spell on the target, then have your spellcasting friend dispel it off of them? This seems needlessly complicated, and it only has some synergy with dispelling people you were going to dispel anyway. But it costs an action to set up for CLd6 damage. On that basis, I'm going to suggest level 2. This does make it kind of useless until you get Dispel Magic, but so be it.
What happens if I cast Volatile Interference on that dragon, then cast Dispel Magic on the dragon? The spell description states that it cannot be removed by the initial caster, but also that when it does damage it ends.
On the other hand, it's a no-save no-sr no attack roll damage spell. If you can target something (creature or object), you can damage it. I'm foreseeing this spell being Chained, and/or used to kill golems, people immune to magic, and other corner cases that are normally handled via Hail of Stones. Why does this not allow SR?
-
2012-04-06, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Gender
-
2012-04-06, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Here
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
Absolutely nothing.
Nope. Let me break it up for you.
1. You cast Turn to Stone on an opponent.
2. You look at what opponents you have to see if any of them have break enchantment.
3. If they do, go to 4. If they don't, go to 5.
4. Cast Volatile Interference on the target. Go to 5.
5. Get rid of the rest of the enemies. If the opponent turned to stone is freed, he will pay a hefty price in hit points.
This seems needlessly complicated, and it only has some synergy with dispelling people you were going to dispel anyway. But it costs an action to set up for CLd6 damage. On that basis, I'm going to suggest level 2. This does make it kind of useless until you get Dispel Magic, but so be it.
What happens if I cast Volatile Interference on that dragon, then cast Dispel Magic on the dragon? The spell description states that it cannot be removed by the initial caster, but also that when it does damage it ends.
Why does this not allow SR?
Therefore, technically SR is a factor, because if the target rolls SR against Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, or Break Enchantment, and succeeds, Interference does not end and damage is not dealt.
-
2012-04-06, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Midwest, not Middle East
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
Dispel Magic and Break Enchantment don't allow SR.
Break Enchantment also takes a minute to cast. Someone casting that in combat is either suffering from hubris or ignorance.
Have you looked at Reciprocal Gyre in Spell Compendium? It more directly punishes people for having a number of buffs on them, which was your stated purpose of the spell in the first post. Later conversation suggests that this spell is intended as more of a trap to discourage dispelling of debuffs, which makes it distinct from Reciprocal Gyre.
-
2012-04-06, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Here
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
Well....I define buffers both as people who give buffs and dispel debuffs.
The way I intended this to work is: you cast save or sucks on opponents, and make sure they are punished if they removed them. If they don't remove them, it doesn't matter if they are punished or not, because debuffs are overpowered anyway.
Gyre has kind of the opposite purpose of my spell. But of course someone can use them both to really screw the enemies :D.Last edited by Phosphate; 2012-04-06 at 02:08 PM.
-
2012-04-06, 08:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Re: Need a level for a spell
This spell does not make sense to me.
Ok, you wait for a chance to find a target that might have a dispel or other spell cast on them. Then you cast the spell. Then when and if the spell is cast on them they will take 1d6 damage/level? It does not look that useful.
On the spell itself, it's way unbalanced. The spell should have a save for the initial casting. You should get a save to negate when a spell is cast on you. And the damage should be save for half too.
And the no Spell Resistance is just silly. Saying that a spell creates ''um, non-magical pure chaos energy untyped damage'' is just beyond dumb and is out right cheating. And it's the classic slippery slope. Once you say a spell can do 'non-magical magic', why not say every single spell does non-magical magic and eliminate spell resistance for everything.
-
2012-04-06, 11:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
This spell should very definitely allow SR; it's layering a continuing magical energy onto a target. How much more overtly magical and prone to resistance can you reasonably get?
I'm personally unsure what level it should be; it's specialized, but still surprisingly powerful under the right conditions. However, with SR: Yes as it should be, it's probably not more than a 4th-level spell. Take that estimate with a grain of salt, however.Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
-
2012-04-07, 02:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Here
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
-
2012-04-07, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
This is just a guess, but I'd say 3rd level.
-
2012-04-07, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- NW USA
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
Maybe it's because I DM, but the minute I saw this I thought "Loot Trap!", honestly, what decent Dark Wizard wouldn't have a spell to turn his giant hoard into mush the minute some thieving party of adventurers tries to clean up thier spoils. It helps that my parties cleric has gotten into the habit of casting remove curse on loot from anything even vaguely resembling a spellcaster.
I can be friendly whenever I wish, Alas for you, wishing to be intelligent does not make it so.
My Ninja and its Setting also, My Samurai P.E.A.C.H!
-
2012-04-08, 07:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Here
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
-
2012-04-08, 08:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
* Cast volatile interference on enemy.
* Cast anti-magic field.
* Walk up to enemy and trigger volatile interference.
Kind of convoluted, but this is a no-save no-attack-roll way to damage creature without (enough) SR.
Incidentally, casting the spell on an object doesn't make much sense, as they don't have hit points.
-
2012-04-08, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Need a level for a spell
Objects have hit points (PH 165).
I'd go with 5, even with spell resistance included. The long duration, lack of a save, and lack of any viable method of fighting back against the effect other than counterspelling (which is hard to do and rarely attempted) or just waiting (which basically means running away and waiting a day) make the spell difficult to deal with, while the uncapped, untyped damage makes this potentially a very strong hit, especially if used as a metamagic seed. The need for an additional magical effect as a trigger is a limit, but not a very strong one since (a) creating a cost for removing a debuff is kind of the point of the spell and (b) higher-level parties (who are likely to debuff heavily or face heavily buffed opponents) are usually able to take multiple actions per character per round.Subclasses for 5E: magus of blades, shadowcraft assassin, spellthief, void disciple
Guides for 5E: Practical fiend-binding
D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Most popular: monk and fighter.
-
2012-04-08, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- NW USA
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
I can be friendly whenever I wish, Alas for you, wishing to be intelligent does not make it so.
My Ninja and its Setting also, My Samurai P.E.A.C.H!
-
2012-04-08, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Here
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
If I add a damage cap you think it would be lower level? Thing is, this is a spell that works best when quickened, and expending a level 9 slot is...not ideal.
Alternatively, I could make the spell level 7, and make it require a swift action anyway :D.
Fabulous!
-
2012-04-08, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
I like this for curses. Do something nasty to someone, then put this in place, so even if they do find someone strong enough to undo their work, it will be much worse if they do.
Or dominations. Your foes can kill their dominated friend, but not remove the control without the victim dying.
I see why for balance reasons you want to disallow the caster to dispel it themselves, but I have a harder time seeing why, in-universe, that won't work. Can my cohort dispel the target for me to trigger the spell? Can I use a wand of dispel to trigger it?Last edited by Analytica; 2012-04-08 at 08:42 PM.
-
2012-04-09, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Here
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
I flavor that as "a single spellcaster's own energy can't interact chaotically with itself, as it is of the same nature".
Can my cohort dispel the target for me to trigger the spell?
Can I use a wand of dispel to trigger it?
-
2012-04-09, 06:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Gender
-
2012-04-09, 07:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
Couldn't an ally trigger it? I'd say level 2-3 because it's unlikely that the enemy will ever trigger it and even if you do cheese it out with an ally that takes 2 actions and a lot of coordination. Since the damage is untyped I suppose it's level 3 but even that's iffy. If you somehow prevent coordination (I wouldn't know how) then it could be level 2.
Sure you could cast this and then tag the enemy with a debuff, but most foes can be killed in 2-3 rounds anyway. And dispelling only a single debuff is usually inefficient anyway b/c it's a 50:50 shot of wasting your turn. Normally you need to go after multiple debuffs; at least 2 to simply break even. So it's an unreliable combo with minimal returns that depends on the enemy doing something that he shouldn't usually be doing anyway.Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-04-09 at 07:29 AM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
-
2012-04-09, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
-
2012-04-09, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Here
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
-
2012-04-09, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Need a level for a spell
That cuts it down substantially...I'd say now it's probably level 4 or 5 (untyped damage with no save is still pretty nice.) Allow Remove Curse to remove it safely with a successful level check, and I'd call it a solid 4.
Anyway, how much should I increase the level if I wanted it to be a swift action?
-
2012-04-09, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Gender
Re: Need a level for a spell
The general pattern in Spell Compendium is that changing casting time to a swift action and reducing duration to one round will increase spell level by one. Since there is no duration change involved here, a two-level increase from what was previously agreed as balanced (3rd?) would be justified.
-
2012-04-09, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Need a level for a spell
Increasing duration from 1 round to 1 hour/level is way more than 1 level's worth.
A better comparison would be to Quicken Spell, which changes casting time to a swift action and increases spell level by 4. Of course, metamagic is better in one way (you get two spells for the price of 1), and worse in other ways (it requires a feat, and it functions as a lower-level spell for things like saves and spell turning.)
-
2012-04-09, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
Re: Need a level for a spell
I think this spell gets interesting when chained.
Also, untyped damage is an issue, always, especially if uncapped and no save allowed.Red Hand of Doom Rise of the Runelords
Fiendlord Base Class (WIP, PEACH) Elementalist Base Class (WIP, PEACH)
Awesome Ulitharid avatar by the gifted Ceika. Thank you!
-
2012-04-10, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Need a level for a spell
Not necessarily. It's strong, but I don't think Horrid Wilting is considered that unbalanced, and that's not only untyped, but multiple-target as well. (Of course, it is level 8.) I'd say remove 4 for this being only single-target, and the lack of a save is compensated for by the fact that it's a somewhat difficult setup and is close range.
-
2012-04-10, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: Need a level for a spell
might be overcomplicated but what about allowing it to be dispelled as normal if it is the only effect on the target that would be effected by dispel, but if there are othere effects on them it interacts with those effects to cause the damage?
that way it only works as a trap, not as a weapon with dispelling, the level can thus be reduced for quickening, and it can be safely dispelled (provided you know the spell and how it works).
other than that, how about making it a metamagic feat? give it say a +3(?) level adjustment and your good to go without worrying about casting time increases?
-
2012-04-10, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009