Advancing Moves, Spells, Techniques, etc.

[Kadzar]

I was wondering if anyone knows of any examples of games where a player can start out with a move, technique, power, spell, or whatever that they know but can't use very well but eventually gain mastery over it over the course of the game. So, instead of just learning similar moves at increasing power levels, with practice, a character can gain better use out of what they already have. I'm sure there are games like this, I just don't know of them personally.

[Arbitrarity]

To some extent, D&D 3.5's Magic of Incarnum has a system like this. You start with access to your class's entire pool of soulmelds, and levelling lets you shape more, allocate more essentia, and bind to more chakras, which is where you derive your powers. Of course, that's not exactly "one" technique, so much as an entire system of them.
In fluff, Binding probably works like that. You get various powers, but it's from a single source that you improve at.

[navar100]

Point Buy based games.

Often as you put more points into an ability means you have less chance of failure of the task or increase your chance of success depending on the ability (slight difference such as trying to cast a spell with a failure chance vs. rolling to hit an opponent). GURPS does this.

Sometimes you get to do stuff you couldn't before from the same skill. Ars Magica is like this where a formulaic spell you had to cast with fatigue no longer fatigues you or you can now learn a formulaic spell you couldn't in the first place because you increased your skill in a particular magic technique. Your options to cast a spell effect you make up on the spot with that technique also gets better.

[dsmiles]

TSR's FASERIP Marvel was like that. Ahhhh...the gold ol' days...

[TheCountAlucard]

A number of Exalted Charms provide better benefits to a character with higher Essence.

[Kadzar]

A number of Exalted Charms provide better benefits to a character with higher Essence.

Is Essence a universal stat? Because I'm more looking for things where you invest in a specific ability, where you can use an ability while you're learning to use it properly, with reduced effectiveness compared to if one had mastered said ability.

[Arbane]

Is Essence a universal stat? Because I'm more looking for things where you invest in a specific ability, where you can use an ability while you're learning to use it properly, with reduced effectiveness compared to if one had mastered said ability.

Right, it's pretty much the game's "power" stat. Also, some Charms (specific magic powers) have add-on charms that permanently enhance their abilities in various ways.

As for what you're asking... you could probably do it pretty well in Mutants and Masterminds, or any other power-based game, by spending XP on varying your power, instead of just more raw power? (Like, making an energy bolt that can shoot around corners, instead of just through them.)

[Jay R]

Champions or any other Hero Games system (Fantasy Hero, etc.) allows some characters to improve the skills they already have, while others can decide to buy new abilities.

The only drawback to it is the requirement to use gradeschool arithmetic. If you can add, subtract, multiply and divide fairly easily, it's a great system. But I usually have to do a character sheet for at least one other person in the game.

[Emmerask]

Point Buy based games.

Often as you put more points into an ability means you have less chance of failure of the task or increase your chance of success depending on the ability (slight difference such as trying to cast a spell with a failure chance vs. rolling to hit an opponent). GURPS does this.

Sometimes you get to do stuff you couldn't before from the same skill. Ars Magica is like this where a formulaic spell you had to cast with fatigue no longer fatigues you or you can now learn a formulaic spell you couldn't in the first place because you increased your skill in a particular magic technique. Your options to cast a spell effect you make up on the spot with that technique also gets better.

Yep pretty much, also in dark eye (also pb and somewhat similar to gurps) the effects of the spells may differ depending on the number of successes calculated.
In general you will pick most (sometimes even all) of the spells at character creation and then just improve on this "small" (incomparison to all the spells) subset and slowly master them over the curse of your carrier in dark eye.

[Analytica]

There are systems where every specific spell is a skill of its own. I find them a little too clunky though. WoD rules can do what you want, and Exalted is basically fantasy WoD.

[dsmiles]

There are systems where every specific spell is a skill of its own. I find them a little too clunky though. WoD rules can do what you want, and Exalted is basically fantasy WoD.

Rolemaster/HARP is like that. Soooooooooo many tables...

[Kadzar]

Yeah, thinking about, what I what is a system where skills are as many and varied as spells in 3rd edition D&D (and a similar ability to create your own if one doesn't exist that suits a need). I'm probably mostly looking to homebrew something/make skills up as need arises in game, but it might be useful to have a system or systems to use as a guideline/example. I'm thinking there should be prerequisites for learning certain skills or certain levels of skills, but a player shouldn't have to wait until they've leveled to learn or increase skills. I might still keep levels to determine baseline stats, which could tie into skill prerequisites. Or maybe not, I'll have to think about it.

[Tyrrell]

fifth edition Ars Magica does this with its spell mastery rules.

Every formulaic spell has an associated spell mastery skill so if a character knows the spell shape of the woodland prowler they can learn the skill Spell Mastery:shape of the woodland prowler.

This skill gives them a bonus to cast the spell (which, even if you can cast the spell easily and don't need to sweat the casting roll, still helps if you're trying to beat a target's magic resistance or casting the spell in particularly unfavorable conditions) and a decreased chance of botching when casting the spell (in fact down to no chance of fumbling at all, which is a rare thing in the game rules).

But the big deal for spell mastery is that each time you gain a level in the skill you get to choose a mastery ability for the spell examples are

• penetrate magic resistance better
• suffer no penalties for casting without gestures
• cast multiple copies of the spell at the same time
• use the spell with improved finesse
• remove any chance of the spell fatiguing you
• being able to cast the spell as a reaction on other peoples turns

and so on there are lots of choices.

[Epsilon Rose]

Yeah, thinking about, what I what is a system where skills are as many and varied as spells in 3rd edition D&D (and a similar ability to create your own if one doesn't exist that suits a need). I'm probably mostly looking to homebrew something/make skills up as need arises in game, but it might be useful to have a system or systems to use as a guideline/example. I'm thinking there should be prerequisites for learning certain skills or certain levels of skills, but a player shouldn't have to wait until they've leveled to learn or increase skills. I might still keep levels to determine baseline stats, which could tie into skill prerequisites. Or maybe not, I'll have to think about it.

That sounds almost exactly like gurps. Almost every skill and power can be bought up to hire levels, skills actually do things, you can level specific parts of skills (like parrying) and there are rules for learning and creating powers. You could also easily implement levels (just give them a predetermined number of points when they level).

[shadow_archmagi]

Pretty much everything magical in 3.5 has "Per caster level" tacked onto it somewhere.

[motoko's ghost]

Is anyone else having flashbacks to FF2?