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  1. - Top - End - #571
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    Something odd I've noticed- under the Divine Blessing mutation, from the Outsider mutations, you list status as a possible spell. Divine Blessing lets you have a constant, personal spell effect from the list.

    While I can theoretically think of some benefit from having Status as a personal spell, generally it's going to be exceptionally redundant, and the spell is definitely designed to be used on others. Was the intention to allow you to touch anyone and keep track of them via Status? Because as is, all it allows you to do is keep track of yourself.
    Changed to Deathwatch. I honestly misread what Status does when I wrote that. Blah.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    I understand why you would want to put on the 1/4 limit, but I think it makes things awkward. If I want six specific powers at will, but they're from different levels, then I can't do that until epic level. Kinda weird, don't you think?
    Besides that, I think the potential stat requirements now are pretty crazily high. You are definitely not going to meet those most of the time. I would tone that down a little.

    An rough suggestion from me (haven't thought about this thoroughly) might be to keep the Capacity mutation based on a single power, but perhaps give it a scaling number of extra uses, whether on level or on the appropriate ability score.

    I also want to voice an objection to make psi-likes based on Intelligence. A few observations on that point:
    1) Psi-like abilities, like spell-like abilities, are based on Charisma by default.
    2) Evolutionist has basically no other decent use for Intelligence. Charisma, on the other hand, sees use in numerous places- this makes psi-likes much less appealing than spell-likes, and more inclined towards MAD.
    3) If you're looking to dissuade people from taking spell-likes and psi-likes, the need to spend mutations on both caster and manifester level is probably discouragement enough.

    Also, on a random note, Disrupt Psionics is strictly inferior to Disrupt Magic. It's a small thing, but the Dispel Psionics power can't be used as a counterspell. Normally Dispel Psionics has the advantage of scaling beyond Dispel Magic, but you've removed that in your system. Perhaps you could add back in some minor advantage for the psionic version somehow?
    I am giving some thought to your idea, and I am inclined to take it up, truth be told.

    Psi-likes were made to be int-based to create a viable intelligence based path for evolutionists (only wisdom was left empty, mostly). I also plan to add some more intelligence-based mutations, with a certain focus on party utility, but that will take awhile.

    I have some expansions for the two Dispells being readied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhaic View Post
    Hey, shouldn't Vestigial Wings eventually grant something like Glide? It seems like it would be the natural transition between Vestigial Wings and a Fly speed.
    Vestigial Wings is a straggler that I didn't know how to rewrite when I changed Aquatic Adaptation and Adherent Hands around. It will receive a pass on the next big patch, hopefully.
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  2. - Top - End - #572
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Psi-likes were made to be int-based to create a viable intelligence based path for evolutionists (only wisdom was left empty, mostly). I also plan to add some more intelligence-based mutations, with a certain focus on party utility, but that will take awhile.
    Perhaps in the interest of adding variability, you could allow people to choose whether to use Charisma or Intelligence (choosing it once when they first select a spell-like)? You might even do something like add in the ability to switch over to Wisdom if they gain the Outsider spell-likes.


    On the subject of the Outsider spell-likes, the mutation name and the wording leaves it a little muddled on whether the mutation there is one you must take to upgrade spell-likes (in that, you take this one mutation and then you can get spell-likes using the normal mutation), or just the spell-like ability mutation that is broadened (in that, you don't have to take any new mutations, so long as you have access to the Outsider list you can take divine spell-likes). I think you're aiming for the latter of those two, but I'm not entirely sure.

    I think for clarity you might simply call it a different mutation that works like the normal spell-like ability, shares caster level and such, but accesses the cleric list. Alternately, perhaps don't even list it as a separate mutation, but clearly call it out as a free addition to the spell-like list for outsiders.

  3. - Top - End - #573
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Changelog
    Just for the record, I decided against the int-or-cha thing.

    Extraordinaire
    New mutation - Trip: As the wolf ability.

    Spell-like List
    Arcane Capacity - modified to Vael's suggestion. Probably the final version now.
    New mutation - Detonate Magic: Dispelled spells explode.

    Psi-like List
    New mutation - Combat Reading: Gain insight bonuses against enemies whose minds you can read.
    New mutation - Disrupt Minds: Dispelled powers drive enemies crazy.
    Psychic Capacity - modified to Vael's suggestion. Probably the final version now.
    New mutation - Telepathic Guidance: Grant bonuses to your allies against enemies whose minds you can read.

    Construct List
    Spell-like abilities - simplified and clarified.

    Outsider List
    Spell-like abilities - simplified and clarified.
    Last edited by Draken; 2013-05-02 at 07:50 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #574
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Compared to many of the later Evolutionist PrCs, the Progenitor seems somewhat lackluster in retrospect. While definitely functional, it offers comparatively little to actually capture the feeling of mastering a horde of minions. While I don't feel the original need be stricken from the the records just yet (at least, not until Draken completes his own PrC hinging on leading a small pack of similar entities), I think it can be done significantly better. Hence the following - my attempt at making a balanced 'swarm' class that doesn't bog down play with enormous amounts of status-tracking and rolls. Criticism is, as always, welcome - the class employs some extreme abstractions in the name of ease of play, and I'd like to hear what anyone might think with regards to its execution.

    The Progenitor v2
    "They are my children. My legs and claws and ravenous maw. They are my swarm, and I am their god. So tremble, mortal, for I am not alone."
    -Sarah, a Progenitor

    Nearly all evolutionists seek perfection in some form. The regal fury of a dragon, the boundless might of a giant, or even the vast reserves of untapped power that lie in the humanoid form: the specifics of their quest vary, but not their goal. Some, though, go further.

    Progenitors slow their climb towards personal perfection, turning their attention to the creation of a legacy of beings to carry their quest through the generations... or perhaps simply to gain an army of loyal servants. With a swarm of fanatical minions at her beck and call, a progenitor slowly draws closer to unlocking the secrets of forging life in her own image.

    Prerequisites:
    Skills: 13 ranks in the Knowledge skill relevant to your creature type (Religion for Undead, Local for Humanoids, etc)
    Special: Must possess the Mutant Ascendancy class feature

    HD: d8
    {table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
    1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | Mutations, Beget Minions, Tyrant's Instinct
    2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | Mutations, Evolved Progeny
    3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Mutations
    4 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Mutations, Evolved Progeny
    5 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Mutations, Rapid Spawning (30 minutes)
    6 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Mutations, Evolved Progeny
    7 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Mutations
    8 | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Mutations, Evolved Progeny
    9 | +4 | +3 | +3 | +3 | Mutations
    10 | +5 | +3 | +3 | +3 | Mutations, Evolved Progeny, Rapid Spawning (10 minutes), Promethean Perfection[/table]

    Class Skills (2 + Int Modifier): The progenitor can chose the class skills of any one of her base classes to be her class skills for this class, this choice cannot be changed.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A progenitor gains no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Mutations: The progenitor gains four mutations per level.

    Beget Minons (Su): A progenitor toys in the realm of the gods, harnessing the terrible and awesome power to create life in their own image. Their creations are vastly inferior, true, but the same could be said of divinity. Depending on their creature type and chosen aesthetic, the progenitor may go about this in any number of ways Ė she may build an army of sentient machines from cast-off scraps, stitch together a living corpse, or lay a clutch of eggs that give rise to a ravenous swarm of young. At 1st level, the progenitor selects Constitution or Intelligence as the ability most closely keyed to her chosen method of propagation. This determines the key ability score for many of her minionsí abilities, and once made, this decision can never be reversed.

    Whatever method she chooses, the process of spawning minions requires an hour of uninterrupted work, regardless of how many minions the progenitor wishes to spawn. The progenitor may have a number of minions at any given time equal to [4 + class level + Cha modifier]. If the progenitor creates minions over this limit, she must terminate existing minions (which need not be present) to make room for their fresher siblings. Some Evolved Progeny abilities allow the progenitor to spawn elite minions, which are often possess significantly more power or utility than their generic counterparts. A progenitor may have a number of elite minions under her command no greater than half her class level (to a minimum limit of one elite minion). Elite minions still count against the minion limit normally.

    Minions are effectively mindless, incapable of following even rudimentary orders without direction from the progenitor. They possess no actions of their own, acting only in response to the progenitorís own commands. Should a minion ever stray further than [100 * class level] feet from the progenitor, it immediately falls completely inert, and will decay into useless goop if it is not brought back within the progenitorís zone of control within 24 hours. This radius is referred to as the progenitorís zone of control. The progenitor cannot issue commands, use special abilities, or otherwise interact with minions outside her zone of control, but she possesses instinctive knowledge of the hit point totals and location (relative to her) of any minions within it. Minions never benefit from flanking, but they can flank with those the progenitor considers allies. If the progenitor dies or is destroyed, her minions collapse after one minute unless she is revived.

    Basic Minions have the following statistics:
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    Hit Points: (3 + Con/Int modifier) * Class Level
    Damage: 1 + Con/Int modifier
    Saves: A minionís Fortitude and Reflex saves equal those of the progenitor. It is immune to any effect requiring a Will save. Whenever multiple minions are exposed to the same effect, the group makes a single attempt at a saving throw, with the result dictating the outcome for all affected minions.
    Armor Class: 13 + Con/Int modifier + Class Level
    Speed: 30í base land speed. If the progenitor possesses a fly, climb, or swim speed, her minions also possess a fly, climb, or swim speed equal to their base land speed.
    Size: Small. Minions weigh anywhere from 25 to 50 lbs., at the progenitorís discretion. Minions do not gain any bonuses or penalties based on their size category other than increased carrying capacity unless specifically noted.
    Ability Scores: Minions do not have ability scores. For the purpose of carrying capacity, and other measurements of force, minions possess an effective Strength score of 13.

    Simple Construct: A minion is immune to any effects other than hit point damage, and is immediately destroyed if it is reduced to 0 or negative HP.
    Evasion: If a minion makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, it instead takes no damage.
    Senses: Though normally unable to react independently to external stimuli, all minions possess mundane and extraordinary senses identical to those of the progenitor herself. Minions never possess supernatural senses.


    Tyrantís Instinct (Su): Even at 1st level, a progenitor possesses an instinctual knowledge of how to command her minions in a rudimentary fashion. Whenever the progenitor uses an action to move, (including special movement such as charging or running, but not action-free movement such as a five-foot-step) or uses a move action explicitly to trigger this ability, she may move each of her minions up to their speed. Movement by minions provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. Minions cannot take five-foot-steps.

    With a standard action, the progenitor can command her minions to attack her foes. Each of her minions makes a single attack against a viable target within its reach. Rather than rolling for each individually, the progenitor makes a single attack roll, replacing any usual bonuses to attack with [Base Attack Bonus + Charisma modifier], comparing the result to the AC of each of her minionsí targets. A creature targeted by at least one minion suffers a penalty to its AC against this assault equal to the number of minions targeting it. If the attack roll is successful in overcoming this reduced AC, the targeted creature takes damage from each minion targeting it.
    A progenitor does not need to possess line of sight, or even line of effect, to her minions in order to command them. However, as she does not ordinarily possess any sort of sensory feedback from them, blindly commanding minions is a prospect likely to result in embarrassment if not carefully orchestrated.

    Evolved Progeny: As the progenitor grows in power, she continues to refine and evolve the teeming hordes of her minions. While the petty creatures she creates are a far cry from the elegance and power of a true evolutionist, they make fitting servants to their master nonetheless. All such abilities are supernatural in nature. At each even-numbered level, the progenitor gains one of the following abilities:

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    Burly Spawn: A progenitorís minions serve the invaluable function of acting as a buffer between their master and the various flavors of unpleasantness the world may throw at her. Minions are, however, extremely flimsy creatures, and a progenitor may understandably want for a more suitably resilient protector. Whenever the progenitor spawns minions, she may choose to spawn some or all of them as burly minions. Burly minions possess a hit point total of ([8 + Con/Int] * Class Level), are Medium rather than Small, possess an effective strength score of 15, and benefit from Fast Healing 10. This fast healing is suppressed for one minute upon taking damage from any source. Additionally, whenever a creature or minion (other than another burly minion) adjacent to a burly minion is struck by an attack, the progenitor can command the burly minion to redirect that attack onto itself as a free action. A redirected attack automatically hits the burly minion, otherwise it continues to resolve normally. Otherwise, a burly minion possesses identical statistics and functionality to a basic minion. A burly minion is an elite minion.

    Devious Spawn: Though sheer numbers have their merits, a clever progenitor knows that sometimes a well-placed dagger can do more damage than the avalanche surrounding it. Whenever the progenitor spawns minions, she may choose to spawn some or all of them as sneaky minions. Sneaky minions possess a damage of (1 + Con/Int modifier + number of minions adjacent to target). Additionally, sneaky minions are invisible whenever they are not moving - this may be pierced with See Invisibility and similar effects as usual. If a sneaky minion's invisibility is in some way negated, it restores itself at the beginning of the progenitor's next turn. Otherwise, a sneaky minion possesses identical statistics and functionality to a basic minion. A sneaky minion is an elite minion.

    Drudge Spawn: Menial labor is beneath the progenitor, and regardless, many sets of hands (or claws, or pincers, or tentacles, or hoovesÖ) can accomplish tasks with far greater efficiency than one alone could hope to match. Whenever the progenitor spawns minions, she may choose to spawn some or all of them as laborer minions. Laborer minions cannot attack, and possess a hit point total of (3 * Class Level). Each laborer minion counts as only one-fourth of a minion for the purposes of determining a progenitorís minion limit. Laborer minions can be instructed to perform simple repetitive tasks (such as hacking stone from a quarry, hauling garbage from a heap into a pit of acid, or assembling clocks from piles of ready-made components) on a loop, which they will continue to carry out until they are destroyed, given new orders, or the progenitor that created them is killed. Unlike most minions, laborer minions operating on standing orders possess a full compliment of actions each round with which to carry out their tasks. Additionally, so long as the progenitor is alive (or animate, in the case of construct or undead progenitors) laborer minions are not dependent upon a progenitorís zone of control to remain active if they are operating on standing orders, and are in no danger of collapsing if they are brought outside it for extended periods of time. Issuing basic programming to laborer minions is a move action. Laborer minions perform their assigned tasks as if they possessed a bonus in the relevant Craft or Profession skill equal to twice the progenitorís class level. Otherwise, a laborer minion possesses identical statistics and functionality to a basic minion.

    Internal Crucible: The progenitor must possess the swallow whole extraordinary ability to select this ability. Whenever a nonminion creature dies within the progenitorís gizzard, she may dissolve its body as a free action, using the raw materials to instantly form a minion in its place. Additionally, the progenitorís minions become immune to the damage dealt by her swallow whole ability, and the progenitor gains the ability expel an individual creature (minion or not) from her gizzard as a swift action. For one minute after their creation, minions spawned through this ability do not count against the minion limit.

    Masterful Spawn: As useful as minions can be, managing their brainless bodies is a near-constant chore without some form of assistance. Whenever the progenitor spawns minions, she may choose to spawn some or all of them as master minions. Master minions can be given simple, programmed instructions, much like a golem or mindless undead, and do not fall inactive or risk degeneration if positioned outside the progenitorís zone of influence. Additionally, any number of minions can be assigned to a master minionís Ďcontrol groupí, allowing the group to receive instructions as a whole. U A master minion possesses its own zone of control with a radius of 100í, within which minions assigned to it do not fall inert even if they are outside of the progenitorís own zone of control, and may carry out programmed orders regardless of the progenitorís presence or absence. Issuing commands to a master minion, which may include the addition or removal of other minions to its control group, is a move action. Unlike most minions, master minions operating on standing orders possess a full compliment of actions each round with which to carry out their tasks. Master Minions are capable of using these actions to make use of the abilities granted by Tyrant's Instinct to command in their control group exactly as the progenitor can (including use of the progenitor's BAB and Charisma modifier to determine the attack bonus of a swarm attack). Otherwise, a master minion possesses identical statistics and functionality to a basic minion. A master minion is an elite minion.

    Sidebar: Master Minions and Command
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    Master minions are arguably the most complicated entities a progenitor is capable of producing, but they are still fairly simple creatures. The primary difference lies in the fact that a master minion can actually take actions of their own (in contrast to other minions, which much receive direct commands to take any sort of action), so long as they are ordered to do so by the progenitor - in all respects, treat them just like any other mindless creature, such as a golem or a skeleton. Given a set of instructions, they can act independent of the Progenitor's actions, and even channel her Tyrant's Instinct abilities to command her minions as an automated proxy. While a programmed drone will never match a progenitor in tactical prowess, turning command of her forces over to a master minion allows the progenitor herself to participate more actively in battle, or even deploy her minions in battles where she herself is completely absent.


    Overlordís Vigil: A progenitorís minions are content to shamble along in their pathetic existences with no more than the smallest of mental shoves from their creator, but some masters wish to take a firmer hold on the strings of their puppets. As a full-round action, the progenitor may enter a meditative trance in which she establishes a powerful psychic link to her minions. While in such a trance, her personal zone of controlís radius triples and the progenitor may freely access the sensory input of any number of her minions. However, while in this trance, the progenitorís physical body is helpless and inert, in a state mechanically equivalent to sleep. She may still take actions to command her minions, but must take another full-round action to rouse herself to consciousness. If the progenitorís physical body takes damage while she occupies this trance, she immediately snaps back to consciousness and is dazed for 1d3 rounds.

    Precise Spawn: Generally, minions are little more than disposable trash to be thrown into the meat grinder that is the front line of combat. At times, however, a prudent progenitor may deem the tactical advantage of a ranged attacker sufficient to merit a slightly thinner meatshield. Whenever the progenitor spawns minions, she may choose to spawn some or all of them as ranged minions. Ranged minions are incapable of attacking until they root themselves into a firing position. A progenitor may order ranged minions under her command to take up or abandon a firing position whenever she commands her minions to move Ė doing so prevents a ranged minion from taking any other movement from that action. Ranged minions may attack targets within a range of 100í, and their attacks provoke attacks of opportunity. Otherwise, a ranged minion possesses identical statistics and functionality to a basic minion.

    Recycle Remains: A dead minion is little cause for concern in and of itself, but it would be unseemly for a superior being such as the progenitor to be left unattended simply because all her servants have been reduced to worm fodder. By minion corpses, the progenitor can spawn a number of minions up to half the number of consumed corpses in a process requiring only a standard action, rather than one hour process. Newly spawned minions may be placed in any empty square the progenitor can reach. A single move action allows the progenitor to consume any minion corpses within her reach, and the progenitor may internally store a number of minion corpses up to twice her class level at any given time. Minion corpses consumed by this ability are ruined beyond all hope of further salvage, and are useless for further applications of this ability - though the newly spawned minions may be harvested normally upon their own deaths.

    Sovereignís Vengeance: Rulers do not die easily, for when they fall, those they once ruled will rise to avenge them. If the progenitor would at any time be unable to take actions, due to being dazed, unconscious, or otherwise indisposed, she may still take a single move or standard action each round on her turn. This action may only be used to command minions, or trigger their special abilities. This ability does not function if the progenitor is dead or destroyed, but it functions with any other form of incapacitation, regardless of origin or duration.

    Spawning Pits: The progenitor must possess the grove mutation to select this ability. The progenitor may enhance her grove with a bountiful supply of biomass (or other appropriate raw materials) capable of supporting additional minions. The progenitorís grove gains a minion limit, independent from the progenitorís own Ė it is capable of supporting a group of up to [Class level * 3] minions, which rely on the power of the grove to maintain their cohesion and will instantly collapse if forced to leave it. The progenitor may shift any number of minions from her own limit into the group sustained by the spawning pool as a free action, or vice versa, so long as she does not at any point exceed the limit of either. Minions supported by the grove still fall inert if they are not within the progenitorís zone of control, but they will not decay with her absence. Additionally, so long as the progenitor is within the boundaries of her grove, the entirety of the grove is considered to be within her zone of control. Lastly, if the progenitor somehow possesses the Elemental Perfection class feature, the entirety of the demiplane created through that ability is considered to be within her zone of control, even when she is not present. It also provides the effects of a second spawning pool, identical in functionality to that of the progenitorís worldly grove in all respects, save that minions bound to it are restricted to the progenitorís demiplane, rather than her grove as a whole.

    Supportive Spawn: Minions are fragile, clumsy creatures, and many progenitors would rather not be forced to deal with every scrape and bruise that may need patching up to keep the petty entities in fighting shape. Imbuing a minion with a small portion of her creative energy, however, provides a servant all too willing to take that particular burden off its master's hands. Whenever the progenitor spawns minions, she may choose to spawn some or all of them as support minions. Support minions cannot attack. Instead, whenever the progenitor orders her minions to attack, a support minion restores a number of hit points to each adjacent minion (including itself) equal to [Charisma modifier * 3]. Additionally, for every support minion in her zone of control, the progenitor gains a +1 bonus to her attack roll when making a swarm attack with Tyrant's Instinct. So long as there is at least one support minion in her zone of control, a progenitor's minions may attack incorporeal enemies without penalty. Otherwise, a support minion possesses identical statistics and functionality to a basic minion. A support minion is an elite minion.

    Swift Spawn: Though raw power is well and good, the faster a progenitorís minions, the sooner her foes will be overwhelmed by the sharp-toothed tide of her unquestionable superiority. Whenever the progenitor spawns minions, she may choose to spawn some or all of them as swift minions. Swift minions possess a hit point value of ([1 + Con/Int] * Class Level), an AC of (10 + Con/Int modififer + Class Level), and a base land speed of 40í. Additionally, swift minions do not provoke attacks of opportunity for any reason. Otherwise, a swift minion possesses identical statistics and functionality to a basic minion.

    Transfuse Essence: Though individual minions are nothing more than meaningless husks before the majesty of the progenitor, there at times arise situations wherein she must intervene so that they might perish at a more appropriate time. As a move action, the progenitor may restore a single minion within her zone of control to its maximum hit point value. Once the progenitor has used this ability, she must wait three rounds to use it again.

    Tyrantís Feast: Whoever argues that deliciousness is not an evolutionary advantage is obviously not in a position to dictate the genetic makeup of their meals. As a move action, the progenitor may consume a minion within reach (whether literally, by sapping their life-force, or through some other means). This instantly destroys the minion. The progenitor then gains fast healing equal to one fifth of the devoured minionís hit points at the time of its consumption, rounded up, or increases existing fast healing by this same amount. This fast healing lasts for one minute. The progenitor cannot use this ability again until the fast healing from the first application has worn off.

    Unbreakable Hordes: A progenitorís foes can be a wily lot at times, and it is inevitable that she will eventually face enemies clever enough to attempt and blast away entire swathes of minions at once Ė but when they try, it is likely they will find that exterminating the children of a progenitor is not so simple a thing. Whenever the progenitor's minions are exposed to an effect requiring a saving throw, they gain a bonus to their save attempt equal to the number of minions being targeted by the effect. Additionally, they never take damage from an effect against which they successfully save.

    Volatile Spawn: The progenitor must possess energy resistance to select this ability. Whenever the progenitor spawns minions, she may choose to spawn some or all of them as volatile minions. Volatile minions take 10 additional damage whenever they take damage from any source. Additionally, they explode violently upon reduction to 0 or fewer hit points, dealing 1d6 damage per two mutator levels (to a minimum of 1d6 damage) to all non-minion creatures within a 10í radius. This damage is of an energy type selected from among those to which a progenitor has resistance, and is chosen when a volatile minion is spawned. As a standard action, the progenitor may manually detonate a number of volatile minions up to their Charisma modifier (to a minimum of one minion) Ė minions detonated in this fashion are instantly destroyed. Otherwise, a volatile minion possesses identical statistics and functionality to a basic minion.

    Wandering Spawn: The progenitor must possess the dimension door mutation to select this ability. When a true sovereign sets her eyes upon a goal, the road to its acquisition must surely be softened by the bowed backs of servants beneath her tread. As the purest and more glorious form of leader, it is only fitting that the progenitor takes this a step further. Whenever the progenitor spawns minions, she may choose to spawn some or all of them as traveler minions. Traveler minions are Large, rather than Small, and possess an effective strength score of 24 for the purpose of determining carrying capacity. Additionally, all of a progenitorís traveler minions possess a powerful supernatural link Ė so long as at least one traveler minion is within the progenitorís zone of control, all of them (even those who would otherwise be outside her zone of control) broadcast an extension of her zone of control with a 100í radius. Further, as a move action, the progenitor can command a traveler minion to devour a willing creature adjacent to it (size is irrelevant with regards to this action), which is then instantly deposited adjacent to any traveler minion within the progenitorís zone of control. If there are no spaces adjacent to a traveler minion with room for a creature to be deposited, that minion cannot be used as an exit point for this ability. Lastly, if the progenitor possesses a burrow speed, a traveler minion possesses a burrow speed equal to its base land speed. Otherwise, a traveler minion possesses identical statistics and functionality to a basic minion. A traveler minion is an elite minion.


    Rapid Spawning (Su): As a progenitor grows in power, the creation of her minions slowly eases from a laborious task to a routine affair. Beginning at 5th level, the progenitor requires only 30 minutes to spawn a new batch of minions, rather than one hour. At 10th level, she requires only 10 minutes to spawn her minions.

    Promethean Perfection (Su): At 10th level, the progenitor gains true mastery over creation. No longer are her progeny bound solely to her own essence Ė she is capable of creating truly independent life. When the progenitor spawns a new minion, she may choose to bring it to life as a fully self-sufficient entity. The resulting entity is not a minion, but rather a true creature, possessing sapience, independence, and a measure of power in reflection of the progenitorís own.

    When the progenitor creates a creature in this manner, she first assigns their ability score as she pleases, using the nonelite array. After this, she may grant the creature evolutionist levels, up to a maximum granted evolutionist level of the progenitorís mutator level -10. The created creature gains the full benefit of these granted evolutionist levels, including mutations, teratomorphisms, and all other benefits of increasing HD. However, the created creature may only be assigned mutations and teratomorphisms already possessed by the progenitor (or the Extra Mutations teratomorphism), and may not surpass the progenitor in number of iterations possessed of any given mutation. The created creatureís type is identical to the progenitorís type, but it does not possess the augmented subtype.

    Creatures created by this ability do not count against the progenitorís minion limit, and are not bound or compelled to serve her in any fashion. They are, however, generally reverent and grateful to their creator, and may almost always be considered Helpful to the progenitor unless she does something to dramatically alter their perceptions of her. After their creation, these progeny will carry on with their own lives, and individuals may even continue to gain class levels beyond those they were created with Ė they progress no differently from a creature that had gained a number of evolutionist levels Ďnaturallyí. Creatures created by this ability are viable, and may live, die, and reproduce as appropriate to their nature. The specifics of their life cycle are up to the progenitor Ė it is entirely possible to seed the beginnings of an entirely new species with this ability.
    Last edited by Selinia; 2013-05-03 at 02:35 PM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I have an idea for a mutation, where you can apply the effects of Spell Absorption, Spell Reflection, and the like, to effects dispelled or counterspelled with Disrupt Magic. For example, you counterspell a fireball and reflect it back at the caster, or absorb the spell for hit points, or a Construct mutator could save the fireball for later use.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    the new progenitors minions seem a bit weak, could you explain to me how this is a better choice then just 20 levels in evolutionist? im sure that you can, so please help me understand, i love the idea in this better than the other one.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I go away from the 'brewing forums for awhile and this pops up! I honestly never thought I would see a more complex and option-intense homebrew than my Eidolon Binder, but in one fell swoop you've proven me horrifically wrong! I love it! I can't wait to get back to my real computer and start chewing it up and building horrible monstrosities. A damn fine brew, sir, and one that garners the Raiki seal of approval.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    A note - a few minor changes have been made to to Progenitor v2.

    • Programmable minons (master minions and laborer minions) are now explicitly called out as gaining action sets so they can actually do whatever it is you've programmed them to do.
    • Supportive Spawn added, giving progenitors the opportunity to create the potent minion support units that are Medic Minions.
    • Devious Spawn added, giving progenitors the opportunity to create elusive, dealy, but ultimately frail Sneaky Minions.
    • Rapid Spawning added at 5th and 10th levels, allowing high-level progenitors to replenish their swarms more regularly and easily.
    • Internal Crucible and Recycle Remains have both been buffed significantly, making in-combat minion spawning a much more viable tactic with the right build.


    Quote Originally Posted by zetsu1919 View Post
    the new progenitors minions seem a bit weak, could you explain to me how this is a better choice then just 20 levels in evolutionist? im sure that you can, so please help me understand, i love the idea in this better than the other one.
    The new progenitor's minions are weak - you're right about that. However, bear in mind, you have a lot of them. A positively tremendous number, in fact: an Evolutionist 10/Progenitor 1 who has just entered the class likely has 10 minions at least. Individually, almost worthless, but a progenitor is all about the collective.

    A progenitor isn't a big meatstick powerhouse like you'd get just piling into natural weapons and the like, but it has a pretty potent function nonetheless. A progenitor's minions can swarm the battlefield, gum up enemy mobility, and attract attention and enemy firepower that might otherwise be directed at the actual party members. Minions are infinitely expendable (with certain evolved progeny abilities, you can even replace them mid-battle), and the more you can get enemies to waste time and resources on them, the more successful you are. Depending on what abilities you select, you can do this in a lot of different ways, from having minions outright tank hits for your party to making them dangerous enough that enemies will be harshly punished for ignoring them. You've even got strong utility options in Labor or Traveler minions, if you feel like taking those, or personal boosts like Tyrant's Feast if you prefer to lead from the front.

    Progenitor probably isn't a good class to dip into, but I like to think there are quite a few potentially powerful options there, particularly if you go all the way with it.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Good job with improving the progenitor!

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    how exactly would you make john carpenters "the thing" with this class, Digiacomon and I just watched the movie again and have been thinking a lot about it, what do you think about it?

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by zetsu1919 View Post
    how exactly would you make john carpenters "the thing" with this class, Digiacomon and I just watched the movie again and have been thinking a lot about it, what do you think about it?
    With the tools currently in the thread you would have to be content with a natural weapons build of some kind, plus two instances of Change Shape and some more infiltration-oriented mutations.

    I have an upcoming mutation list that will include a body-snatching mutation that would round the build out a bit better. Among other goodies.

    Edit: But truth be said, that is an Ozodrin if I ever saw one in mainstream media.
    Last edited by Draken; 2013-05-04 at 05:23 PM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Man, if you've got a buddy who's a high evolutionist that grabbed some elemental lance type abilities, Progenitor minions can do some hefty damage. Power in teamwork and all that.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Man, if you've got a buddy who's a high evolutionist that grabbed some elemental lance type abilities, Progenitor minions can do some hefty damage. Power in teamwork and all that.
    Simple Construct actually means that you can't buff the progenitor's minions in any fashion. Including the High Evolutionary's Touch.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Simple Construct actually means that you can't buff the progenitor's minions in any fashion. Including the High Evolutionary's Touch.
    Curses. You always have to ruin my brokenness Draken. Ever since I tried stacking Construct and Outsider armors.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Curses. You always have to ruin my brokenness Draken. Ever since I tried stacking Construct and Outsider armors.
    There is always Swarmlord gestalt.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    There is always Swarmlord gestalt.
    Or, if you're avoiding gestalt cheese, there's the simplicity of the Leadership feat. It doesn't help Progenitors much, but does does wonders for the High Evolutionary.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    No no, the High Evolutionist simply snags a massive pet from the undead raising ability that he took off the list he bought to get in.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    No no, the High Evolutionary simply snags a massive pet from the undead raising ability that he took off the list he bought to get in.
    Fixed that for you.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Few things.


    1) I can't for the life of me figure out what happens if you have a character that starts off with one of the unusual creature types with locked mutation lists, and then decides to go with one of the basic Ascendancy types. For example, if I start off with say, a Tiefling, but decide to give them the Aberration Ascendancy at level 10... do they lose access to the Outsider list? They don't have the Outsider type now, after all. But they had access to it before. What happens to Outsider mutations they had already taken? Do they lose them? Keep them, but just can't add to them?
    By the rules as they are, you just lose access to the list. But that seems weird to me.

    2) Why is Arcane Capacity limited in how many times you can take it? With your previous version, I understood well. But the limitation on this version seems pretty pointless. I mean, I can maybe see an argument for it (maybe), but at the very least I'd say the limit should be one per two levels, not one per three. 7 iterations is insulting.

    3) Again, I'm going to argue to change the ability score for psi-likes, or at least to give some option for it. In addition to the arguments I had before, I would also like to point out that having psi-likes based on Int is a bit of a hit to the Aberration Ascendancy, forcing them to divide between Cha and Int to really get the full benefit of their power.

    4) If anything, your explanation for the expanded spell-like list of Outsider and Construct is more confusing than before. Look, you really need to say something very clear, that leaves no doubt as to the intent. For example:
    A) By taking this mutation, you can now select spell-likes from the X list when you take the Spell-Like Ability mutation.
    B) This is not a new mutation, only an addendum to the mutation by this name, which can be found above. Evolutionists with access to the TYPE list who take that mutation can also select from the X list.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2013-05-06 at 04:56 PM.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    Few things.


    1) I can't for the life of me figure out what happens if you have a character that starts off with one of the unusual creature types with locked mutation lists, and then decides to go with one of the basic Ascendancy types. For example, if I start off with say, a Tiefling, but decide to give them the Aberration Ascendancy at level 10... do they lose access to the Outsider list? They don't have the Outsider type now, after all. But they had access to it before. What happens to Outsider mutations they had already taken? Do they lose them? Keep them, but just can't add to them?
    By the rules as they are, you just lose access to the list. But that seems weird to me.
    Mutant Ascendancy (Ex): At 10th level, the evolutionist becomes somethingÖ Different from whatever he used to be. The evolutionist may choose to change his creature type to Aberration, Dragon, Fey, Giant, Magical Beast or Monstrous Humanoid. He may chose to remain a humanoid if he is one, but most other creatures agree that humanoids are a step down in the evolutionary ladder. The evolutionist gains the augmented subtype pertaining to his old type.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Augmented Subtype

    A creature receives this subtype whenever something happens to change its original type. Some creatures (those with an inherited template) are born with this subtype; others acquire it when they take on an acquired template. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creatureís original type. A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type.
    The augmented subtype allows you to retain access to your special mutation lists.

    2) Why is Arcane Capacity limited in how many times you can take it? With your previous version, I understood well. But the limitation on this version seems pretty pointless. I mean, I can maybe see an argument for it (maybe), but at the very least I'd say the limit should be one per two levels, not one per three. 7 iterations is insulting.
    I am not intirelly sure why it would be insulting, of all possible words to use. Anyway, as it stands, with the new mechanic, the limit should allow for about the same number of higher level at-wills that the first system allowed.

    The main thing with the whole changing thing with the capacity mutations were some concerns that some people I discuss matters most with raised about the at-will thing.

    3) Again, I'm going to argue to change the ability score for psi-likes, or at least to give some option for it. In addition to the arguments I had before, I would also like to point out that having psi-likes based on Int is a bit of a hit to the Aberration Ascendancy, forcing them to divide between Cha and Int to really get the full benefit of their power.
    Strictly speaking, no. Only some supernatural abilities are based on charisma. A great many have no save or are based on constitution.

    4) If anything, your explanation for the expanded spell-like list of Outsider and Construct is more confusing than before. Look, you really need to say something very clear, that leaves no doubt as to the intent. For example:
    A) By taking this mutation, you can now select spell-likes from the X list when you take the Spell-Like Ability mutation.
    B) This is not a new mutation, only an addendum to the mutation by this name, which can be found above. Evolutionists with access to the TYPE list who take that mutation can also select from the X list.
    I will try to be clearer.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    The augmented subtype allows you to retain access to your special mutation lists.
    Nowhere in the quote on the augmented subtype does it say you get to count as that creature type when it would be beneficial, detrimental, or at any other time. All it does is mean that an Outsider who becomes a Dragon retains d8 HD, full BAB, full saves and 8+int skill points per HD. And that anyone else who becomes an Outsider doesn't get all their shiny HD instead of their lame ones.

    As such, when you restrict the lists like so: "This list of mutations is available to all evolutionists of the construct type and to all those who take the Construct Mutator feat" anyone with the Augmented subtype doesn't get access. Also, even if you say it is open to people with the Augmented subtype, it only moves the question down along the line to Perfection, where you can choose to shed your augmented type.

    The main thing with the whole changing thing with the capacity mutations were some concerns that some people I discuss matters most with raised about the at-will thing.
    Look at it this way: Limiting the number of spell-likes you get doesn't remove the most powerful options, which largely stem from getting certain spells at will, not getting a massive number of spell-likes at will. All the other benefits of having many, many spells and abilities can already be done just with the basic Spell-Like/Psi-Like mutation (I'm pretty sure you can beat out the sorcerer on per day uses AND spells known that way without too much difficulty).

    What this limit does is make it so that anyone who wants to make a slightly more unusual warlock finds themselves with even worse versatility. Which is saying something.

    If you want to make at will spells/powers less ridiculous, you're better off restricting the list that they can be taken from, not limiting how many you can get. That's more work, obviously... but it also has the result you want. You might also consider cutting back on how many spell-likes you can get, and less how many at will spell-likes you can get.

    Strictly speaking, no. Only some supernatural abilities are based on charisma. A great many have no save or are based on constitution.
    Ah, so they get a bonus to abilities spread across three ability scores. That makes it better.

    Seriously though, these are things in which having a decent DC really makes a difference in effectiveness, and keeping in such a thing just hurts anyone trying to go that route, especially those people who have incentives to invest in it.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    Nowhere in the quote on the augmented subtype does it say you get to count as that creature type when it would be beneficial, detrimental, or at any other time. All it does is mean that an Outsider who becomes a Dragon retains d8 HD, full BAB, full saves and 8+int skill points per HD. And that anyone else who becomes an Outsider doesn't get all their shiny HD instead of their lame ones.

    As such, when you restrict the lists like so: "This list of mutations is available to all evolutionists of the construct type and to all those who take the Construct Mutator feat" anyone with the Augmented subtype doesn't get access. Also, even if you say it is open to people with the Augmented subtype, it only moves the question down along the line to Perfection, where you can choose to shed your augmented type.
    Lists now include augmented subtype as providing the benefit. Perfection no longer allows you to lose the subtype since doing that doesn't really give ny benefit and would cause headaches.

    Look at it this way: Limiting the number of spell-likes you get doesn't remove the most powerful options, which largely stem from getting certain spells at will, not getting a massive number of spell-likes at will. All the other benefits of having many, many spells and abilities can already be done just with the basic Spell-Like/Psi-Like mutation (I'm pretty sure you can beat out the sorcerer on per day uses AND spells known that way without too much difficulty).

    What this limit does is make it so that anyone who wants to make a slightly more unusual warlock finds themselves with even worse versatility. Which is saying something.

    If you want to make at will spells/powers less ridiculous, you're better off restricting the list that they can be taken from, not limiting how many you can get. That's more work, obviously... but it also has the result you want. You might also consider cutting back on how many spell-likes you can get, and less how many at will spell-likes you can get.
    Argument is sound. Limitation changed to 1/2.

    Ah, so they get a bonus to abilities spread across three ability scores. That makes it better.

    Seriously though, these are things in which having a decent DC really makes a difference in effectiveness, and keeping in such a thing just hurts anyone trying to go that route, especially those people who have incentives to invest in it.
    The aberration ascendancy has been buffed to +3 on grounds that any give individual is unlikely to ever fully benefit from it anyway due to madness. MADNESS.
    Last edited by Draken; 2013-05-06 at 07:20 PM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Just a nitpick here, but the prerequiste "Any psi-like ability or the ability to manifest psionic powers." is redundant, as the ability to manifest psionic powers is a psi-like ability. That said, I doubt people will remember that if the listed prerequisite only says any psi-like ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Psi-Like Abilities (Ps)

    The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability, as is the manifestation of powers by creatures without a psionic class (creatures with the psionic subtype, also simply called psionic creatures).
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbacz
    For some people, at-will non-mundane martial abilities = wuxia anime = MMOs = 4E = Hitler = dead kittens.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhaic View Post
    Just a nitpick here, but the prerequiste "Any psi-like ability or the ability to manifest psionic powers." is redundant, as the ability to manifest psionic powers is a psi-like ability. That said, I doubt people will remember that if the listed prerequisite only says any psi-like ability.
    I am aware of the redundancy.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    So, I've been working more in depth with the class, and several things have arisen- I feel kinda bad about leveling so much criticism and uncertainty about the class, but I my intention is to be helpful rather than negative. It is my hope that my observations can help the class get refined, more than anything else.

    Anyway, here are the things I've noticed:


    Ethereal Step leaves it a little unclear as to whether the cooldown begins after you return to the material plane, or once the ability has been activated. Or, to look at it another way- I'm not sure whether enough applications of the mutation could allow indefinite periods on the Ethereal Plane or not (so long as a swift action is used every so often). Some clarification in wording might be useful.

    Evolve Speed and Vestigial Wings are really just outdone by other mutations. I like having characters with notable speeds, but neither of these seem worth it to me, even though I'd like really like to take them. You're actually better off taking the Dimension Door power, because with a few iterations it can be used as a move or swift action, and its speed automatically scales at the same rate but without requiring a constant input of mutations. Plus, its teleportation. Teleportation is good. At a thought, I might advise that Evolve Speed and Vestigial Wings scale to an extent, in a manner similar to Adherent Hands and Chameleonic and so forth.

    Evolve Resilience is quite potent. A single application effectively raises one's HD from d8 to d12, and it only grows from there. It is comparable in effect to the quite potent Vitality Belt soulmeld, except it is permanent and requires less investment for greater effect. I think this mutation may need to be decreased in power.

    Spell Resistance. It comes to mind that, in conjunction with previous forms of Spell Resistance or other methods of raising SR, this mutation can be easily used to give a fairly impossibly high SR. Perhaps total SR could be limited in some way?

    Gaze. As written, it would appear that this mutation, in combination with a single iteration of Glare, can give you a constant glare effect. More alarming is that you can take it more than once and there is no language to prevent multiple effects from being active at the same time. Having two constantly active actionless effects that can completely disable any opponent within 60ft for the cost of four mutations seems a little more powerful than one might want.

    Warped Visage. This scales only slightly faster than Natural Invisibility (which can also grant miss chance), but doesn't stack with other miss chances, is bypassed by the same methods, and grants no other effects. It's a pretty strictly inferior mutation- this overlap probably needs to be resolved in some manner.

    Disrupt Magic (and others). While building a gestalt Evolutionist//Warlock, it occurred to me that certain prerequisites in the spell-like and psi-like trees may prove pretty redundant, both from sources without and within. For example, if someone were to pick and choose between the two trees and decided to shoot for both Detect Thoughts and Detonate Magic, they'd end up needing detect psionics and detect magic. Someone who has multiclassed with warlock may be annoyed to have to take such mutations- and someone with access to the Outsider mutations who has gained Arcane Sight will find detect magic to be redundant. I feel like some other prerequisite may serve better.

    Anomalous Mutation tetramorph. I got down to business really thinking about this, and have concluded it is pretty much one of the most powerful tetramorphs- and it is one of the first available and can be stacked. Appropriate builds can use it to gain entire feat trees, max out any skill, gain basically any spell under 6th level, as well as other things that mutations make available. It takes a little time to do, but such breadth and potency is something that could make a wizard envious. While I dearly love the idea, I think it could prove exceptionally problematic in play.
    The Azure Form feat is similarly difficult, though with its own limitations and strengths. It may work less frequently, but it also works far more quickly.

    Damage Reduction. In general, I like the way you've handled damage reduction. However, while building an evolutionist, a little thought came to me. As an example, make something like, say a Mineral Warrior Evolutionist. Use a feat or other method to gain access to the Construct mutation list. You can now use Material Damage Reduction to make, say, DR 8/Adamantine and Silver.
    While there are still some ways to overcome it, it feels like it is a bit of a flaw in the system.

    Spell-likes. There's always been a little question in the back of my mind as to how the Outsider Ascendancy interacts with spell-likes. For the most part, it seems clear. However, in every other situation, when a spell-like is increased to 7 uses per day or more, it becomes At Will. The Outsider Ascendancy has no such language. Is this purposeful?
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2013-05-11 at 02:49 PM.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    So, I've been working more in depth with the class, and several things have arisen- I feel kinda bad about leveling so much criticism and uncertainty about the class, but I my intention is to be helpful rather than negative. It is my hope that my observations can help the class get refined, more than anything else.

    Anyway, here are the things I've noticed:
    Good criticism is always welcome.

    Ethereal Step leaves it a little unclear as to whether the cooldown begins after you return to the material plane, or once the ability has been activated. Or, to look at it another way- I'm not sure whether enough applications of the mutation could allow indefinite periods on the Ethereal Plane or not (so long as a swift action is used every so often). Some clarification in wording might be useful.
    Addressed.

    Evolve Speed and Vestigial Wings are really just outdone by other mutations. I like having characters with notable speeds, but neither of these seem worth it to me, even though I'd like really like to take them. You're actually better off taking the Dimension Door power, because with a few iterations it can be used as a move or swift action, and its speed automatically scales at the same rate but without requiring a constant input of mutations. Plus, its teleportation. Teleportation is good. At a thought, I might advise that Evolve Speed and Vestigial Wings scale to an extent, in a manner similar to Adherent Hands and Chameleonic and so forth.
    Addressed.

    Evolve Resilience is quite potent. A single application effectively raises one's HD from d8 to d12, and it only grows from there. It is comparable in effect to the quite potent Vitality Belt soulmeld, except it is permanent and requires less investment for greater effect. I think this mutation may need to be decreased in power.
    Evolve Resilience was buffed to that state some time ago, when I decided to get rid of its pointless twin in the Construct List. Guess it is, in fact, way too good.

    It has been addressed, and I also gave the save boosters a pass.

    Spell Resistance. It comes to mind that, in conjunction with previous forms of Spell Resistance or other methods of raising SR, this mutation can be easily used to give a fairly impossibly high SR. Perhaps total SR could be limited in some way?
    Spell resistance will never stop being a thorn in my side. I will think of something.

    Gaze. As written, it would appear that this mutation, in combination with a single iteration of Glare, can give you a constant glare effect. More alarming is that you can take it more than once and there is no language to prevent multiple effects from being active at the same time. Having two constantly active actionless effects that can completely disable any opponent within 60ft for the cost of four mutations seems a little more powerful than one might want.
    Addressed.

    Warped Visage. This scales only slightly faster than Natural Invisibility (which can also grant miss chance), but doesn't stack with other miss chances, is bypassed by the same methods, and grants no other effects. It's a pretty strictly inferior mutation- this overlap probably needs to be resolved in some manner.
    Addressed.

    Disrupt Magic (and others). While building a gestalt Evolutionist//Warlock, it occurred to me that certain prerequisites in the spell-like and psi-like trees may prove pretty redundant, both from sources without and within. For example, if someone were to pick and choose between the two trees and decided to shoot for both Detect Thoughts and Detonate Magic, they'd end up needing detect psionics and detect magic. Someone who has multiclassed with warlock may be annoyed to have to take such mutations- and someone with access to the Outsider mutations who has gained Arcane Sight will find detect magic to be redundant. I feel like some other prerequisite may serve better.
    Addressed.

    Anomalous Mutation tetramorph. I got down to business really thinking about this, and have concluded it is pretty much one of the most powerful tetramorphs- and it is one of the first available and can be stacked. Appropriate builds can use it to gain entire feat trees, max out any skill, gain basically any spell under 6th level, as well as other things that mutations make available. It takes a little time to do, but such breadth and potency is something that could make a wizard envious. While I dearly love the idea, I think it could prove exceptionally problematic in play.
    The Azure Form feat is similarly difficult, though with its own limitations and strengths. It may work less frequently, but it also works far more quickly.
    Yes. I know that Anomalous Mutation is likely the strongest teratomorph available. I am going to think about that one for a bit but perhaps a limit on how many times it can be taken is in order.

    Damage Reduction. In general, I like the way you've handled damage reduction. However, while building an evolutionist, a little thought came to me. As an example, make something like, say a Mineral Warrior Evolutionist. Use a feat or other method to gain access to the Construct mutation list. You can now use Material Damage Reduction to make, say, DR 8/Adamantine and Silver.
    While there are still some ways to overcome it, it feels like it is a bit of a flaw in the system.
    Addressed.

    Spell-likes. There's always been a little question in the back of my mind as to how the Outsider Ascendancy interacts with spell-likes. For the most part, it seems clear. However, in every other situation, when a spell-like is increased to 7 uses per day or more, it becomes At Will. The Outsider Ascendancy has no such language. Is this purposeful?
    Addressed.

    ----------

    CHANGELOG

    Basic
    Evolve Resilience - Now provides 1hp/mutator level and can be taken once per two mutator levels.
    Evolve Fortitude - Can now be taken once per six mutator levels instead of once per seven mutator level.
    Evolve Reflexes - Can now be taken once per six mutator levels instead of once per seven mutator level.
    Evolve Will - Can now be taken once per six mutator levels instead of once per seven mutator level.

    Innate
    Aquatic Adaptation - Can only be taken once per four mutator levels.
    Evolve Speed - Now increases base land speed by 10 feet, can only be taken once per six mutator levels.
    Nimble Form - Can now be taken once per six mutator levels, but gives +2 Dex.
    Powerful Form - Can now be taken once per six mutator levels, but gives +2 Str.
    Resilient Form - Can now be taken once per six mutator levels, but gives +2 Con.
    Superior Cognizance - Can now be taken once per six mutator levels, but gives +2 Int.
    Superior Grace - Can now be taken once per six mutator levels, but gives +2 Cha.
    Superior Instinct - Can now be taken once per six mutator levels, but gives +2 Wis.
    Vestigial Wings - Now increases fly speed by 10 feet. Can only be taken once per four mutator levels.

    Supernatural
    Charm - Duration changed to 24 hours/mutator level. Additional purchases increase number of targets.
    Ethereal Step - Cooldown clarified.
    Gaze - A successful save now grant temporary immunity to that gaze. Only one gaze can be active at a time.
    Warped Visage - Sixth purchase now allows some protection to remain even in the face of True Seeing.

    Psi-like & Spell-like
    Several mutations have been clarified as having slightly broader prerequisites than they appeared to have before.

    Construct
    Material Damage Reduction - can no longer be used for shenanigans.

    Outsider
    Ascendancy - Clarified.
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  27. - Top - End - #597
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Gideon Falcon's Avatar

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    You know, the Monstrous Humanoid Perfection is nice, but a bit lackluster in comparison to the others. For example, the Humanoid perfection grants pretty much everything, plus your friends get it, plus a universal ability increase.
    It's a falcon. Wearing a Fedora. Your argument is irrelevant.
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  28. - Top - End - #598
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Draken's Avatar

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    You know, the Monstrous Humanoid Perfection is nice, but a bit lackluster in comparison to the others. For example, the Humanoid perfection grants pretty much everything, plus your friends get it, plus a universal ability increase.
    I know it is lackluster. I ran out of ideas for it.

    It does have an advantage over the Humanoid perfection. Since the aura of the humanoid perfection gives a morale bonus, it overlaps with the vastly more optimizeable Inspire Courage.
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  29. - Top - End - #599
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    So, maybe just give Monstrous humanoids the blanket +2, and call it good?
    It's a falcon. Wearing a Fedora. Your argument is irrelevant.
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  30. - Top - End - #600
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Meh. Makes it even, I suppose.

    CHANGELOG

    Teratomorphisms
    Flight - Now gives poor maneuverability.

    Mutant Perfection
    Fey Perfection - The two spell-like abilities it gains can now be subject to Arcane Capacity again.
    Magical beast Perfection - Get your best turning optimization. The Magical Beast perfection now grants Rebuke and Control Magical Beasts.
    Monstrous Humanoid Perfection - Now also gives a +2 to all ability scores. Whoop.

    Innate Mutations
    Vestigial Wings - Jump bonus increased to +5, now increases maneuverability by one step for each time it is taken. Can now be taken once per 5 mutator levels.

    Construct Mutations
    New Mutation
    - Force Barrage: Magic Missiles as a swift action!
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