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  1. - Top - End - #781
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    ... I am having trouble reading that sheet. It looks like it is somewhere between a level 5 monostalt and a level 2 tristalt, but both situations result in extremely wrong numbers more or less everywhere.
    explain please. on pathfinder you get two levels with 3000xp I just placed it into everything except tough.
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  2. - Top - End - #782
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian Blade View Post
    explain please. on pathfinder you get two levels with 3000xp I just placed it into everything except tough.
    Uh... Do you know how gestalt (and its crazier brothers) works?
    Last edited by Draken; 2014-01-07 at 07:42 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #783
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    So Draken, the Hellfire Scion look good now? Might have to work on the Hellfire Subtype thing, but its mostly ment to be a badge of badassery.
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  4. - Top - End - #784
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Uh... Do you know how gestalt (and its crazier brothers) works?
    let me guess both classes get the 3000 split to how many different classes you have?
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  5. - Top - End - #785
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimsage Matt View Post
    So Draken, the Hellfire Scion look good now? Might have to work on the Hellfire Subtype thing, but its mostly ment to be a badge of badassery.
    Well, Celestial Frost is kind of not a thing that exists as far as I am aware (and I consider myself very aware).

    Other than that, a I would rather see the cha bonus in the perfection gone and would then link it on the first page once you made a final pass at the overall writing.

    ----

    Edit: Quite on the contrary. In gestalt (tristalt, whateverstalt) you go like this.

    Experience defines your character level, starting at 1, going up to X (20 before epic levels kick in).

    In a normal game, each of these levels has one class to its name.

    In gestalt, each of these levels has two classes to its name.

    In tristalt, each of these levels has three classes to its name.

    Etc.

    So you should have a Level 2 character whose classes are Fast Hero2/Tough Hero 2/Evolutionist 2. His HD should be 2d10+4 (19 hp average) with a base BAB of +1, one talent from fast hero, one talent from tough hero, two bonus feats, IUA as a bonus feat, 10 mutations, one teratomorphism and Monster sage.

    The extra class levels are horizontal, not vertical, parts of the "chassis" (HD, BAB, saves, skill points) do not stack, only the best apply.
    Last edited by Draken; 2014-01-07 at 07:51 PM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian Blade View Post
    let me guess both classes get the 3000 split to how many different classes you have?
    No...

    You really, really ought to head over to the SRD and read up on the rules.
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  7. - Top - End - #787
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Hellfire subtype is edited, and removed the cha bonus on the perfection. It should be good to go.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    That helps just saw this so for teratomorphism I want to use it for 3 more mutations two for element resistance and what else?

    edit cut out wrong thing
    Last edited by Elysian Blade; 2014-01-07 at 10:05 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #789
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian Blade View Post
    It doesnt tell me my level. Am i a lvl 2 tristalt I understand the other stuff have to dissect it tomorrow or just take a gestalt or monostalt.
    You should really just talk to your DM about this...
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian Blade View Post
    It doesnt tell me my level. Am i a lvl 2 tristalt I understand the other stuff have to dissect it tomorrow or just take a gestalt or monostalt.
    If you are level 2, then u are level 2..... Gestalt doesn't change that
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Gestalt is two classes shoved into one level

    a level one gestalt character will have the better saves of the two classes, as well as the better BaB, but the spellcasting/class features of both, but in one level.
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  12. - Top - End - #792
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    If you are level 2, then u are level 2..... Gestalt doesn't change that
    No I added more stuff then I was suppose to but now I got it down thanks to everyone.
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  13. - Top - End - #793
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Went over Hellfire Scion, looks good to me. It's good to go (from my baised viewpoint).
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    For elemental attack if you have multiple resistances and use it to say put fire and electricity together into one natural attack does that work?
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian Blade View Post
    For elemental attack if you have multiple resistances and use it to say put fire and electricity together into one natural attack does that work?
    You can have multiple types of damage if you have different resistances, but they all draw from the same pool.

    So, at level 7 you could have up to 4d6 fire damage or 2d6 cold+2d6 acid.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    You can have multiple types of damage if you have different resistances, but they all draw from the same pool.

    So, at level 7 you could have up to 4d6 fire damage or 2d6 cold+2d6 acid.
    Thats what i was thinking so its possible to have all elements combined together. Ultimate punch!
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  17. - Top - End - #797
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Level 9 for +1d6 of each element, level 19 for the +2d6 version.
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  18. - Top - End - #798
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimsage Matt View Post
    Level 9 for +1d6 of each element, level 19 for the +2d6 version.
    but burning acid electric ice and sonic dmg thats going to hurt. plus all the power i get for unarmed attack thats natural with all this power

    5d6+2d6+2d6+2d6+2d6+2d6+5 pure power 15d6+5
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  19. - Top - End - #799
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Found it nvm
    Last edited by Elysian Blade; 2014-01-09 at 06:48 PM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Resin Mastercrafter

    "Can you feel it breathing around you?"



    Few substances are as wondrous as the strange resin that an evolutionist can learn to secrete upon learning the mysteries of most ancient life. Those who devote themselves to its powers are well rewarded.

    Prerequisites:
    Skills: Craft (Resin) 8 ranks.
    Feats: Resin Artisan.
    Mutations: Resin

    HD: d8
    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Features
    1 +0 +0 +0 +0 Mutations, Empowered Resin +1
    2 +1 +0 +0 +0 Mutations, Improved Resin, Supreme Material Proficiency
    3 +1 +1 +1 +1 Mutations, Bonus Resin, Empowered Resin +2
    4 +2 +1 +1 +1 Mutations, Improved Resin
    5 +2 +1 +1 +1 Mutations, Empowered Resin +3, Lesser Eldritch Resin, Bonus Item Creation Feat
    6 +3 +2 +2 +2 Mutations, Bonus Resin, Improved Resin
    7 +3 +2 +2 +2 Mutations, Bonus Resin, Bonus Item Creation Feat, Empowered Resin +4
    8 +4 +2 +2 +2 Mutations, Improved Resin
    9 +4 +3 +3 +3 Mutations, Bonus Resin, Bonus Item Creation Feat, Empowered Resin +5
    10 +5 +3 +3 +3 Mutations, Improved Resin, Greater Eldritch Resin
    Class Skills (2 + Int modifier): The Resin Mastercrafter can chose the class skills of any one of his base classes to be his class skills for this class, this choice cannot be changed.

    Proficiencies: The Resin Mastercrafter gains no additional proficiencies with weapons or armor.

    Mutations: The Resin Mastercrafter gains 4 mutations per level.

    Empowered Resin (Ex): The Resin Mastercrafter can employ additional materials to make objects crafted from his resin stronger than usual. He may create weapons, armor and other objects with an enhancement bonus equal to half of his class level, rounded up. To add this enhancement bonus, he must spend additional resin in the creation process equal to one third of the market price of the enhancement bonus to be applied, objects that are neither weapons nor armor use the market price for armor when receiving their enhancement bonuses. A tool enhanced in this fashion provides a competence bonus to skill checks equal to three times the enhancement bonus, other items created from resin may receive these benefits to varied rolls.
    The enhancement bonus provided by this ability is not magical, a weapon or armor with this enhancement does not count as a magic item (for the purpose of receiving additional enchantments or otherwise), nor does this enhancement bonus count against the maximum enhancement bonus of an item.

    Sidebar: Enhancement Bonuses on Objects
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    How can a non-weapon, non-armor, non-masterwork tool object benefit from this enhancement bonus?
    Well, first things first. Each point of enhancement raises the hit points of the object by 1/3 and its hardness by 2 (from a base of 10, since it is resin), other than that, there are some options to be considered.
    A vehicle, such as a ship from the Arms and Equipment Guide, Stormwrack or the Explorer’s Handbook (Eberron) can add this bonus to its Seaworthiness (or equivalent) and Shiphandling modifiers, and other skill checks to control the vehicle.
    A structure, as seen in the Stronghold’s Builder Guide, would merely benefit from the added hardness and hit points.


    Improved Resin (Ex): At 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th levels, the Resin Mastercrafter gains the ability to improve his resin in varied ways. At each of these levels he may pick one ability from the list bellow. Each ability can only be taken once unless otherwise stated.

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    Special Material Emulation: Upon selecting this ability, the Mastercrafter must chose one special material (such as adamantine, mithral or dragonhide), whenever an object is crafted using his resin, it can have the properties of the chosen special material in addition to the usual benefits from being made of resin, although doing so increases the crafting cost by the amount that would normally be required in order to make an object with the special material normally. This ability can be taken more than once, with the Mastercrafter picking a different special material each time, but no item can be treated as being made of more than one such special material at a time.

    Faster Healing: Objects made from the mastercrafter’s resin recover a number of hit points equal to his class level every minute, instead of the normal healing rate for resin objects.

    Artifact Resilience: Objects made from the mastercrafter’s resin gain a bonus on fortitude saves equal to his class level and may make a fortitude save whenever they would be required to make a reflex save.

    Impervious Substance: Objects made from the mastercrafter’s resin (including those created through special uses of resin granted by this class) have their hit points increased by 50% and take only half damage from acid and sonic attacks.

    Symbiotic Matter: Objects made from the mastercrafter’s resin bind themselves to their users when worn or wielded. Resin armor provides the user with the object’s healing and hardness up to the mastercrafter's class level (plus twice the item's enhancement bonus), while other objects cannot be disarmed or sundered while in use.

    Living Wax Rampart: The Mastercrafter may raise vertical walls of resin, covering a 5 feet square per instance of the mutation as a standard action, consuming one daily use of resin and at a maximum range of 10 feet per instance of the mutation. If the wall is positioned such that a creature would be in one of the squares it occupies, that creature has the option of squeezing in that space with the wall or moving up to five feet out of that square in any direction, all squares of the wall created by a single use must be adjacent to at least one other square, and they all must be within the maximum range when created, but otherwise they can be placed in any shape the evolutionist wants. Each five foot section has a thickness of one inch per four mutator levels, 30 hit points per inch of thickness and a hardness of 10. A section of wall whose hit points drop to 0 is breached. If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 25 + 2 per inch of thickness. The wall is attached to whatever surface it is laid upon and cannot be tipped over or moved. A wall is permanent until destroyed.

    Coffin of Ancestral Amber: As a full-round action, the Mastercrafter may spend two uses of resin to perform a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet against a creature of a size category he could normally entangle. A creature hit by this attack is trapped in a heavy coating of resin and paralyzed. Escaping from this coffin follows the same rules as escaping from being entangled in resin. The Mastercrafter can shoot an immobilized creature a second time with this ability, locking it wholly in a shell of the substance, raising the escape DC by four and preventing the trapped creature from breathing while it is stuck, a creature so trapped cannot break free by simply working for a minute.

    Chrysalis of Preservation: As a full round action, the Mastercrafter may spend two uses of resin to envelop a willing or helpless creature (of a size category that he could normally entangle with resin) in a protective cocoon. While inside this cocoon, the creature does not need to breathe, eat or drink and receives the healing properties of the resin, if it was at negative hit points upon being enveloped it is immediately stabilized, but it can take no actions other than attempting to break free. The cocoon blocks line of sight and line of effect to the protected creature, it has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and a thickness of 1 inch per four mutator levels. A creature attacking the chrysalis from the outside can break it in a single blow by succeeding in a strength check with a DC of 25+2 per inch of thickness, the creature inside can break free by succeeding on a DC 10 strength check.

    Essential Oil (Requires Faster Healing): The Mastercrafter may produce resin as an essential oil instead. Each use of resin generates a number of gallons of essential oil equal to the number of instances of the mutation he has, essential oil weights the same as water. A creature fully immersed in essential oil heals a number of hit points every turn equal to the mastercrafter’s class level. A creature that drinks an ounce of essential oil (identical to drinking a potion) is healed for a number of hit points equal to half of the mastercrafter’s class level.


    Supreme Material Proficiency: At 2nd level, the Resin Mastercrafter is considered proficient with any items (nominally, weapons armor and shields) crafted from resin.

    Bonus Resin: At 3rd level, 6th level and 9th level, the Resin Mastercrafter gains one additional instance of the Resin mutation. These instances of the mutation do not count towards the usual mutation cap.

    Lesser Eldritch Resin (Su): At 5th level, the Resin Mastercrafter’s resin may be used to supply one fourth of the gold cost for crafting a magical item.

    Bonus Item Creation Feat: At 5th, 7th and 9th level the Resin Mastercrafter gains an item creation feat he qualifies for. He is considered to have a caster level equal to his mutator level for the purpose of qualifying for the feats and item creation, unless he has a higher caster level.

    Greater Eldritch Resin (Su): At 10th level, the Resin Mastercrafter’s resin may be used to supply half of the gold cost for crafting a magical item.
    Last edited by Draken; 2020-11-20 at 10:55 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #801
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    This class is so cool, and also a little creepy.

    I have a couple of questions about how resin itself works. Am I correct to assume that if you make an object out of resin it can only be made out of resin? Could an evolutionist use the resin of another evolutionist, as well as his own, to produce an object? Does the Resin Artisan feat restrict what the evolutionist can craft, by cutting out two days of resin production?

    Earlier in the thread I think you mentioned that the evolutionist's caster level for mutations could allow him to qualify for feats as if he had a generic caster level, the obtain familiar feat i believe was the point of discussion, am I incorrect, or does this not normally apply to item creation feats?

    I hope I've understood everything correctly, I'm writing this at an unnaturally early hour. This is a very cool addition to the already very cool ancient mutation possibilities.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    This class is so cool, and also a little creepy.

    I have a couple of questions about how resin itself works. Am I correct to assume that if you make an object out of resin it can only be made out of resin? Could an evolutionist use the resin of another evolutionist, as well as his own, to produce an object? Does the Resin Artisan feat restrict what the evolutionist can craft, by cutting out two days of resin production?

    Earlier in the thread I think you mentioned that the evolutionist's caster level for mutations could allow him to qualify for feats as if he had a generic caster level, the obtain familiar feat i believe was the point of discussion, am I incorrect, or does this not normally apply to item creation feats?

    I hope I've understood everything correctly, I'm writing this at an unnaturally early hour. This is a very cool addition to the already very cool ancient mutation possibilities.
    1. An object made of resin can only be made with resin.

    2. The person who is making the Craft checks can use resin from any number of different evolutionists. However, a Mastercrafter wishing to make use of his class features needs to stick to his own resin exclusively.

    3. I just made a small edit to Resin Artisan to clarify something. The time reduction from the Resin mutation is mandatory, but the one from the feat is optional.

    4. For an evolutionist to have a Caster Level he needs to have Spell-like Abilities. The wording in the Mastercrafter's bonus feats is there simply to enable them in case the Mastercrafter's build lacks SLAs.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Eleven days. Not a double post.

    Changelog - 01/22/2014
    This is a big one.

    Teratomorphisms
    Regeneration I and II: Buffed.

    Basic Mutations:
    Evolve Resilience: Changed in order to compete on somewhat even footing with Resilient Form.

    Innate Mutations: All skill boosters have been altered, their massive bonuses are gone.
    Adherent Hands: Changed.
    Aquatic Adaptation: Changed.
    Chameleonic: Nerfed.
    Darkvision: Tiny buff.
    Extra Senses: Nerfed.
    Pheromones: Not sure if nerf or buff. A bit of both.
    Vestigial Wings: Changed.

    Extraordinaire Mutations:
    Fast healing: Huge buff.
    Rock Catching: Small clarification.
    Rock Throwing: Might be worth putting more than one in it now. Maybe. Probably not.
    Web: Minor changes.

    Supernatural Mutations:
    Natural Invisibility was evicted.

    Spell-like Mutations:
    Natural Invisibility is now here. Effects mildly changed.

    Construct Teratomorphisms:
    Extrude Docent and Baseline Structure Reconfiguration have changed places. BSR now allows more size categories.

    Construct Mutations:
    Force Barrier: Now spell-like, can be dispelled.

    Elemental Teratomorphisms:
    Control Elements: Gust of Wind added to Air.

    Elemental Mutations:
    Elemental Breach: Area reduced.

    Outsider Ascendancy:
    Now also grants immunity to the dangerous effects of the chosen plane.

    Plant Teratomorphisms:
    Solar Power III: Bonus increased.

    Plant Mutations:
    New mutation: Fungal Growth.
    Grove: Several new effects added.

    Undead Mutations:
    Create Spawn: No longer needs that victims die to energy drain or ability damage. Only that they die with them.

    Ancient Teratomorphisms:
    Karish companion: Now allows oozes.
    Crown of Vermin: Can now be deactivated.

    Ancient Mutations:
    Drone: Can now be continued as a free action.
    Last edited by Draken; 2014-01-22 at 10:16 PM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Evolve Resilience
    Prerequisite: -
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The evolutionist gains 4 additional hit points and increases his hit point total by 20%.
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once per three mutator levels, up to five times.
    Is the 20% before or after the 4 additional hit points?

    How is this rounded?

    Is it 20% of pre-mutation base or current max?

    Taking this as early as possible:
    Average hp for a d8 HD with +0 Con is 93 at level 20.
    Counting the 20% before the +4 hp, taking this 5 times is 164 hp. (+5hp at 1st level)
    Counting the 20% After the +4 hp, taking this 5 times is 171 hp. (+6hp at 1st level)
    Counting the bonus hp from this separately is 146 hp and annoying to calculate. (+5hp at 1st level)

    For comparison, maxing out resilient form is 173 hp. (+1hp at 1st level)
    Maxing both is ≈250-280 hp, depending on when and how you calculate things.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2014-01-23 at 06:28 AM. Reason: corrected math mistake, improved formatting
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I have reworded Evolve Resilience a bit so the calculation goes like this:

    You derive your hit points as normal d8 per HD + HD*Con.mod. + 4*Mutation Instances.

    And then you grab bonus hit points equal to 20% (40%, 60%, 80%, 100%) of that total.

    So for a full blow average at 20th level it would be:

    8 + 19*4.5 base: 93
    Con *20 (considering Con 10 and four superior resilience): 80
    Evolve Resilience * 5: 20

    193 with an extra 193 from the 100% bonus. 386 HP.
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  26. - Top - End - #806
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I'm basically asking as a formality, since I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but how does Resin crafting interact with the Fabricate spell?

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    I'm basically asking as a formality, since I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but how does Resin crafting interact with the Fabricate spell?
    Well.

    Strictly speaking, using resin as raw materials is part of the crafting process, so with fabricate you have two options:

    Option 1: They don't work together.

    Option 2: You cast Fabricate on an amount of resin you manage to spit during the casting process only. Which means pretty a low value of raw materials will be available.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Another thing I noticed, you can't use Arcane Capacity on level 0 SLAs. That seems very odd, does it not?

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    Another thing I noticed, you can't use Arcane Capacity on level 0 SLAs. That seems very odd, does it not?
    That's a quirk of the baseline rules that I honestly can't be assed to...

    Eh, what the heck. Fixed.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    I have reworded Evolve Resilience a bit so the calculation goes like this:

    You derive your hit points as normal d8 per HD + HD*Con.mod. + 4*Mutation Instances.

    And then you grab bonus hit points equal to 20% (40%, 60%, 80%, 100%) of that total.

    So for a full blow average at 20th level it would be:

    8 + 19*4.5 base: 93
    Con *20 (considering Con 10 and four superior resilience): 80
    Evolve Resilience * 5: 20

    193 with an extra 193 from the 100% bonus. 386 HP.
    Even applying the bonus 20% retroactively on all hp increases, I'm only getting up to 285.

    Calculating it out per level, I'm coming up with 270hp, starting with 10 Con and full in both mutations, assuming earliest possible acquisition of each mutation. Note that I do not include normal level up increases in Con mod.

    {table=head]Level|Total|Calc|Mutations|Notes
    1|15|(8 + 1 + 4) * 1.2|Resilient Form, Evolve Resilience|(HD+Con+ER) + 20%
    2|20|4 + 1||HD+Con
    3|26|5 + 1|
    4|42|(26 + 4 + 1 + 4) * 1.2|Evolve Resilience|(Current+HD+Con+ER) + 20%
    5|48|5 + 1|
    6|53|4 + 1|
    7|84|(53 + 5 + 2 + 4 + 6) * 1.2|Resilient Form, Evolve Resilience|(Current+HD+Con+ER+retroactive hp from Con increase) + 20%
    8|90|4 + 2|
    9|97|5 + 2|
    10|128|(97 + 4 + 2 + 4) * 1.2|Evolve Resilience|(Current+HD+Con+ER) + 20%
    11|135|5 + 2|
    12|141|4 + 2|
    13|198|(141 + 5 + 3 + 4 + 12) * 1.2|Resilient Form, Evolve Resilience|(Current+HD+Con+ER+retroactive hp from Con increase) + 20%
    14|205|4 + 3|
    15|213|5 + 3|
    16|220|4 + 3|
    17|228|5 + 3|
    18|235|4 + 3|
    19|262|5 + 4 + 18|Resilient Form|HD+Con+retroactive hp from Con increase
    20|270|4 + 4[/table]

    Starting with a reasonable 14 in Con increases the average hp total to 327, while 18 Con gives 384.

    Edit: The way the math works, for a level 20 build, it's best to take the two at the same level and to take Evolve Resilience as early as possible while keeping at least one available for use at each level you take Resilient Form. Moving the level 10 ER to level 19 increases the final hp total to 291.

    Also, since hp is calculated differently for higher starting levels, you'll get wildly different hp totals with ER depending on your starting level!
    Last edited by Rizban; 2014-01-23 at 10:54 AM.
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