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  1. - Top - End - #481
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    So... I have been meaning to do a Elan rewrite, and I figure giving a small set of mutations might be better then the current set of personal powers.

    So how many mutations would make up a LA +0 race? I hear people say a race should equal two feats... but their are no feats for getting more mutations. one mutation does give you a feat, but it is limited to 4th level and only rarely even then.
    A lot of mutations are feat equivalent, though if you have a race gain mutations you might want to restrict them, especially if they pick up a non-evolutionist class,like the ones that are mostly chassis modifiers.
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  2. - Top - End - #482
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    When making a base race with mutations as its preeminent feature, I would give it 3-4 mutations without giving access to Basic mutations.

    The matter of mutator level... I would make these mutations keep a personal mutator level equal to character level and make it so that they cannot be exchanged.

    And I doubt that most races can be considered equivalent to two feats. A few are equivalent to quite a bit more.
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  3. - Top - End - #483
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    That was just a balance point I have heard of...

    so, how about this as a replacement for the Elan abilities that cost PP.
    Naturally morphic(Ex or Ps or Su): Elans gain 2+1/4HD unstable mutations(as the Anomalous Mutation tetra-morph), that can be chosen from the innate, extraordinary, supernatural, or psi-like lists. They have an effective mutator equal to their HD for these mutations only.

    So a level 20 elan has 7 to play with... but at first level is only using 2.
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  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    So, it'd be alright if I made a prestige class for this right?
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
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  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    That was just a balance point I have heard of...

    so, how about this as a replacement for the Elan abilities that cost PP.
    Naturally morphic(Ex or Ps or Su): Elans gain 2+1/4HD unstable mutations(as the Anomalous Mutation tetra-morph), that can be chosen from the innate, extraordinary, supernatural, or psi-like lists. They have an effective mutator equal to their HD for these mutations only.

    So a level 20 elan has 7 to play with... but at first level is only using 2.
    Twelve words.

    Up to seven powers of 1st-6th level of your choice, changeable daily.

    There is a reason Anomalous Mutation is a teratomorphism that gives one mutation every time you get it.
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  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Fair point, hows about this.
    Naturally morphic(Ex or Ps or Su): Elans gain 2+1/4HD unstable mutations(as the Anomalous Mutation tetra-morph), that can be chosen from the innate or extraordinary lists. They have an effective mutator equal to their HD for these mutations only.

    They get swappable natural attacks, or some resistances. As they level they get a few more, but never more then a first level Evolutionist until 20.
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  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I honestly think that swappable mutations are too strong and simply set mutations (with the ability to exchange one whenever a new level is gained).


    Also, because I have been getting a couple of these questions in PMs, anyone can feel free to try their hand at evolutionist PrCs.
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  8. - Top - End - #488
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Well here's my go at a PrC expanding on the Arms of the Outer Planes teratomorphism and the Extra Arms normal mutation.

    Weaponthane Ascendant
    "My soul cuts deeper than any blade!"
    - A literal war cry common to Weaponthane Ascendants.

    There is a school of swordsman that teach the blade should not be a tool used to fight, but an extension of the self, manifesting in a razor point. If the blade is no more than an extension of the arm that wields it, then surely it should be able to hold the prowess gifted to the self by evolution. At least, this is what the Weaponthane Ascendants believe. As the group that pioneered this style were devote disciples of the Hecatoncheires of legend, Weaponthane Ascendants gain a small number of additional inherent bonuses from possession of additional arms.

    Prerequisites:
    Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Weapon created by Arms of the Outer Planes).
    Skills: Craft (Weaponsmithing) 8 ranks, Knowledge (History) 8 ranks.
    Special: BAB +5.
    Special: Must possess the Arms of the Outer Planes teratomorphism.
    Special: Must have more than one set of arms.

    HD: d8
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Features
    1|+0|+0|+0|+0|Blade Body, Mutations, Strength of Arms
    2|+1|+0|+0|+0|Mutations, Blade Teratomorphism I
    3|+1|+1|+1|+1|Mutations, Cut Deeper
    4|+2|+1|+1|+1|Mutations, Blade Teratomorphism II
    5|+2|+1|+1|+1|Mutations, Momentum Manipulation[/table]
    Class Skills (2 + Int Modifier): The Weaponthane Ascendant can chose the class skills of any one of his base classes to be his class skills for this class, this choice cannot be changed.

    Proficiencies: Weaponthane Ascendants gain no additional proficiencies.

    Mutations: A Weaponthane Ascendant gains four mutations per class level.

    Blade Body: A Weaponthane Ascendant treats his soul weapon gained from the Arms of the Outer Planes teratomorphism as both a natural attack and a manufactured weapon. Additionally, if any of his racial abilities or class features trigger from some form of natural attack (such as the ghost's corrupting touch), they may instead be triggered by an attack with his soul weapon.

    Strength of Arms (Ex): A Weaponthane Ascendant of at least first level knows that having more arms and knowing what to do with them makes for an exceptional combatant. For every two set of arms he possesses beyond the first grants a stacking +1 inherent bonus to his strength score.

    Blade Teratomorphisms: Weaponthane Ascendants both grow in skill and in raw power, especially when concerning their soul weapon. At levels two and four, they may select a level I and a level II Blade Teratomorphism respectively. These follow normal rules for teratomorphisms, and do not affect what level of teratomorphism he may select should he return to the Evolutionist class. They follow standard rules for determining mutation saves when applicable, using strength as the relevant ability modifier.
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    Teratomorph I:
    • Anchoring Blade: Soul weapons sometimes have an interesting effect on spells that provide supernatural travel, perhaps because they are typically made of the souls of extraplanar creatures themselves. A Weaponthane Ascendant with an anchoring blade creates a dimensional anchor effect when he successfully hit an enemy. The enemy is allowed a save, but there is no spell resistance allowed.
    • Bloodied Blade - requires Fast Healing: There is much power in blood, especially when it is drawn by an enemy with a weapon made of soulstuff. When the Weaponthane Ascendant deals damage with his soul weapon, he absorbs the blood drawn and is healed for 1/4 of the damage dealt.
    • Frenzy: Sometimes a Weaponthane Ascendant gets far more angry than is humanly possible, which makes sense for an evolutionist. He gains rage as a Barbarian of 2/3 (rounded up) his mutator level, gaining all augmentations of it as appropriate. He may instead select any rage variant available to an equal level barbarian.
    • Prowess: Many Weaponthane Ascendants prefer simply being better than the enemy at swordplay to any sort of special ability. A Weaponthane Ascendant who has selected Prowess gains a bonus to attack and damage rolls with his soul weapon equal to 1/4 of his mutator level.
    • Split Soul: Sometimes a Weaponthane Ascendant chooses to fight with a blade in every hand rather than every hand on one blade. He gains Arms of the Outer Planes a second time, ignoring the normal restriction on taking a teratomorphism twice. All of his Weaponthane Ascendant class features function equally well with both blades.


    Teratomorph II:
    • Antimagic Exertion: The bond between a Weaponthane Ascendant and his weapon goes beyond even powerful magic. When a Weaponthane Ascendant enters an anti-magic field, he may make a will save (DC 25). This save does not automatically fail on a natural one. If he succeeds on his save, his soul weapon does not lose any of it's enhancements in the anti-magic field. Additionally, any supernatural abilities that are triggered by it's use (such as the Spiritual Wound mutation) still function.
    • Multifaceted Soul - Requires Split Soul: When a Weaponthane Ascendant decides to fight with more than one blade, he doesn't half ass it. His previously split two blades space out, filling each arm with which he can wield a weapon. His first blade fills all his right hands, while his blade from Split Soul fills all his left hands. They have all of the same statistics of the primary blades, and for all intents and purposes count as the same weapon. He may only trigger abilities with his primary two blades however.
    • Transdimensional Rift: The blade of a Weaponthane Ascendant can be so sharp that it slices the very fabric keeping the planes seperated. A Weaponthane Ascendant who chooses this ability may slice a rift from his current location to somewhere else entirely. As a full round action he may open a portal that connects two points in the cosmos. This portal lasts a number of rounds equal to half his mutator level. By default these portals are the size of the Weaponthane Ascendant, but he may spend another full round to increase or decrease the portal by up to two size categories. From the beginning this only fuctions as a basic teleport. When his mutator level is 12, it functions as either a greater teleport or planeshift. When his mutator level is 17, it may function as both simultaneously and without error.
    • Exceptionally Crafted Weapon: Sometimes it just feels great to have your weapon be better than anyone else's. A Weaponthane Ascendant with this ability gains special abilities on his soul weapon equal to 1/4 of his mutator level. These do not count against costs and are above and beyond the native enhancement bonus from being gifted by Arms of the Outer Planes. By spending one hour attuning his soul, he may adjust the abilities his weapon has, even those which are not given by this ability. He may choose any abilities, as long as they do not exceed the sum of his weapon enhancement equivalent.



    Cut Deeper (Ex): A Weaponthane Ascendant of third level can make wounds that overcome even regeneration and damage reduction, to a degree. By taking a -10 attack penalty until the beginning of his next turn, his attacks with his soul weapon bypass all damage reduction possessed by the target and do lethal damage even when normal regeneration would normally convert it to non-lethal. He may bypass even true immunity to such attacks (such as the tarrasque's regeneration and the immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing of an adequately leveled undead evolutionist) by taking a -20 penalty to attacks rolls instead of a -10 penalty.

    Momentum Manipulation (Ex): A Weaponthane Ascendant of fifth level knows how to use his excess arms to swing faster than any mere warrior. By taking a -10 penalty to his attack roll until the beginning of his next turn, he may make a full attack action as a standard action.
    Last edited by Mithril Leaf; 2014-08-04 at 09:13 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #489
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Well here's my go at a PrC expanding on the Arms of the Outer Planes teratomorphism and the Extra Arms normal mutation.

    Weaponthane Ascendant
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    "My soul cuts deeper than any blade!"
    - A literal war cry common to Weaponthane Ascendants.

    There is a school of swordsman that teach the blade should not be a tool used to fight, but an extension of the self, manifesting in a razor point. If the blade is no more than an extension of the arm that wields it, then surely it should be able to hold the prowess gifted to the self by evolution. At least, this is what the Weaponthane Ascendants believe.

    Prerequisites:
    Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Weapon created by Arms of the Outer Planes).
    Skills: Craft (Weaponsmithing) 8 ranks, Knowledge (History) 8 ranks.
    Special: BAB +5.
    Special: Must possess the Arms of the Outer Planes teratomorphism.
    Special: Must have more than one set of arms.

    HD: d8
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Features
    1|+1|+0|+0|+0|Blade Body, Mutations, Strength of Arms
    2|+2|+0|+0|+0|Mutations, Blade Teratomorphism I
    3|+3|+1|+1|+1|Mutations, Momentum Manipulation
    4|+4|+1|+1|+1|Mutations, Blade Teratomorphism II
    5|+5|+1|+1|+1|Mutations, Accelerated Attacking[/table]
    Class Skills (2 + Int Modifier): The Weaponthane Ascendant can chose the class skills of any one of his base classes to be his class skills for this class, this choice cannot be changed.

    Proficiencies: Weaponthane Ascendants gain no additional proficiencies.

    Mutations: A Weaponthane Ascendant gains four mutations per class level.

    Blade Body: A Weaponthane Ascendant treats his soul weapon gained from the Arms of the Outer Planes teratomorphism as both a natural attack and a manufactured weapon. Additionally, if any of his racial abilities or class features trigger from some form of natural attack (such as the ghost's corrupting touch), they may instead be triggered by an attack with his soul weapon.

    Strength of Arms (Ex): A Weaponthane Ascendant of at least first level knows that having more arms and knowing what to do with them makes for an exceptional combatant. Each set of arms he possesses beyond the first grants a stacking +1 inherent bonus to his strength score.

    Blade Teratomorphisms: Weaponthane Ascendants both grow in skill and in raw power, especially when concerning their soul weapon. At levels two and four, they may select a level I and a level II Blade Teratomorphism respectively. These follow normal rules for teratomorphisms, and do not affect what level of teratomorphism he may select should he return to the Evolutionist class.
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    Teratomorph I:
    • Anchoring Blade: Soul weapons sometimes have an interesting effect on spells that provide supernatural travel, perhaps because they are typically made of the souls of extraplanar creatures themselves. A Weaponthane Ascendant with an anchoring blade creates a dimensional anchor effect when he successfully hit an enemy. The enemy is allowed a save following normal mutation DCs, but there is no spell resistance allowed.
    • Bloodied Blade - requires Fast Healing: There is much power in blood, especially when it is drawn by an enemy with a weapon made of soulstuff. When the Weaponthane Ascendant deals damage with his soul weapon, he absorbs the blood drawn and is healed for 1/4 of the damage dealt.
    • Frenzy: Sometimes a Weaponthane Ascendant gets far more angry than is humanly possible, which makes sense for an evolutionist. He gains rage as a Barbarian of his mutator level, gaining all augmentations of it as appropriate. He may instead select any rage variant available to an equal level barbarian.
    • Prowess: Many Weaponthane Ascendants prefer simply being better than the enemy at swordplay to any sort of special ability. A Weaponthane Ascendant who has selected Prowess gains a bonus to attack and damage rolls with his soul weapon equal to 1/2 of his mutator level.
    • Split Soul: Sometimes a Weaponthane Ascendant chooses to fight with a blade in every hand rather than every hand on one blade. He gains Arms of the Outer Planes a second time, ignoring the normal restriction on taking a teratomorphism twice. All of his Weaponthane Ascendant class features function equally well with both blades.


    Teratomorph II:
    • Antimagic Exertion: The bond between a Weaponthane Ascendant and his weapon goes beyond even powerful magic. When a Weaponthane Ascendant enters an anti-magic field, he may make a will save (DC 25). This save does not automatically fail on a natural one. If he succeeds on his save, his soul weapon does not lose any of it's enhancements in the anti-magic field. Additionally, any supernatural abilities that are triggered by it's use (such as the Spiritual Wound mutation) still function.
    • Soul Slicer: The wounds dealt by a soul weapon frequently go beyond mere cuts. A Weaponthane Ascendant with this ability harms the very soul of his enemies when he attacks them. Anyone killed by his soul weapon cannot be raised by a simple raise dead spell. At mutator level 10, not even a resurrection can raise them. Once he hits mutator level 15, true resurrection fails as well. At mutator level 20, only direct diefic intervention is required to heal a soul killed by this soul weapon. Additionally, he gains two free levels of the Soul Wound teratomorphism, even if they push him above his normal limit.
    • Transdimensional Rift: The blade of a Weaponthane Ascendant can be so sharp that it slices the very fabric keeping the planes seperated. A Weaponthane Ascendant who chooses this ability may slice a rift from his current location to somewhere else entirely. As a full round action he may open a portal that connects two points in the cosmos. This portal lasts a number of rounds equal to half his mutator level. From the beginning this only fuctions as a basic teleport. When his mutator level is 15, it functions as either a greater teleport or planeshift. When his mutator level is 20, it may function as both simultaneously and without error.
    • Exceptionally Crafted Weapon: Sometimes it just feels great to have your weapon be better than anyone else's. A Weaponthane Ascendant with this ability gains special abilities on his soul weapon equal to 1/4 of his mutator level. These do not count against costs and are above and beyond the native enhancement bonus from being gifted by Arms of the Outer Planes. By spending one hour attuning his soul, he may adjust the abilities his weapon has, even those which are not given by this ability. He may choose any abilities, as long as they do not exceed the sum of his weapon enhancement equivalent.



    Momentum Manipulation (Ex): A Weaponthane Ascendant who has reached third level knows how to swing his soul weapon so that it is always passing smoothly into a waiting hand. For every two sets of arms he possesses above the first, he may make an additional attack with his soul weapon when making a full round attack. This stacks with all other extra attacks such as from spells such as haste.

    Accelerated Attacking (Ex): A Weaponthane Ascendant of fifth level has arms which allow him to swing faster than any mere warrior. By taking a penalty to his attack role (equal to 30 minus the number of sets of arms he has above the first), he may make a full attack action as a standard action.
    Few things.

    1. All mutator classes have bad BAB and all bad saves, not negotiable!

    2. Ok, this one is relevant. Fighting with multiple hands on one weapon is really strong, I can't really put enough emphasis into this, it is really, really good. Anyway, as it stands, the multiple arms feels... Tacked on? If I see multiple arms, I would expect some form of multiplication, in this case, a multiplication of Arms (as in, weapons, that was a bad joke), but the only such means it gives is one of the exclusive teratomorphisms, which can be taken once, for a grand total of two weapons.

    3. Prowess provides too much of a bonus.

    4. T-morphs that mention saves don't mention what ability score the save is based on, presumably strength or charisma.

    5. Frenzy steps too hard on the barbarian's toes, I think.

    6. Soul Slicer. Eeeh. Dunno about it, doesn't really look all that attractive. There are a lot of things that could be done with souls, most of them in the Book of Vile Darkness, and this feels like a wasted of opportunity. Also, there is no Soul Wound teratomorphism, I presume that refers to the Spiritual Wound mutation. The effect looks added on to make the whole package more attractive overall (preventing ressurrection is terribly specific, after all).

    7. Transdimentional Rift looks a bit like Planewalker, but suffers of some level of 'doesn't quite compare', when first gained. Granted, it is gained much earlier.

    8. Momentum Manipulation - exceeding the preset limits on extra attacks is unwise. This could work better as a flurry of blows lookalike.

    9. Accelerated Attacking - Eeeh. The mechanics of it are weird and kind of feels like a repeat of Momentum Manipulation.

    10. This is a pet thing, but I think that any PrC that you can qualify at 5 should be 10 levels long, whereas 5 level PrCs should only be avaiable at level 9 at minimum.
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  10. - Top - End - #490
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    The majority of those have been addressed.
    1. Now back down to bad BAB.
    2. Proper multiplication. Also, it gives an additional +.5 str to damage per arm and was totally doable by a basic mutator. If your strength is 40, you gain your strength again from another set of arms.
    3. Prowess was dropped down to 1/4 level.
    4. They follow standard mutation saves as you defined in the mutations section of the main class.
    5. Frenzy was dropped down to barbarian of half level.
    6. Dropped and swapped for multiplication.
    7. It starts worse, becomes about on par at 15, and distinctly better at 20. It scales.
    8. Dropped entirely, reused name.
    9. Mechanics are simpler, swapped name.
    10. I'll have to agree to disagree with you on this, I love 5 level long 5th level PrCs. Lets you have something to fill in the gaps as you wait for a level 10 PrC to come online.
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  11. - Top - End - #491
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    The majority of those have been addressed.
    1. Now back down to bad BAB.
    2. Proper multiplication. Also, it gives an additional +.5 str to damage per arm and was totally doable by a basic mutator. If your strength is 40, you gain your strength again from another set of arms.
    3. Prowess was dropped down to 1/4 level.
    4. They follow standard mutation saves as you defined in the mutations section of the main class.
    5. Frenzy was dropped down to barbarian of half level.
    6. Dropped and swapped for multiplication.
    7. It starts worse, becomes about on par at 15, and distinctly better at 20. It scales.
    8. Dropped entirely, reused name.
    9. Mechanics are simpler, swapped name.
    10. I'll have to agree to disagree with you on this, I love 5 level long 5th level PrCs. Lets you have something to fill in the gaps as you wait for a level 10 PrC to come online.
    1. Excellent.

    2. I know that. That is not what I mean.

    What I mean is... Theme-wise you don't really use those extra arms for anything other than an inherent bonus and wielding your weapon(s) with more hands. There is no thematic tie to it. As it stands I would describe the class as "A master of the Soul-forged Weapon. Who also happens to derive minor additional benefits* from extra arms."

    *Minor additional benefits because the inherent bonus is all you get that someone else with extra arms wouldn't get.

    3. Ok.

    4. I wasn't clear there. Mutations and Teratomorphisms that allow a save have a save of (10 + Half Mutator level + Ability Score Modifier). Your teratomorphisms are not listing what the ability score modifier in question is. I suggested that it is probably either Str or Cha.

    5. Reasonable.

    6. Great and somewhat adresses the matter of the disconnect with multiple arms.

    Speaking of that disconnect, maybe tying the innate lore of the class to the Hecatoncheires would work on that front.

    7. Yes. I noticed. The level 20 scaling effect is of arguable advantage, however.

    8/9. Needs the wording improved. It should probably be written as:

    Momentum Manipulation (Ex): A Weaponthane Ascendant of fifth level knows how to use his excess arms to swing faster than any mere warrior. By taking a -10 penalty to all attack rolls until the beggining of his next turn, he may make a full attack action as a standard action.
    10. It is mostly a preference of mine. Nothing big.
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  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Speaking of PrC critiques, did you ever look over the revised Soul Evolutionist?
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    1. Excellent.

    2. I know that. That is not what I mean.

    What I mean is... Theme-wise you don't really use those extra arms for anything other than an inherent bonus and wielding your weapon(s) with more hands. There is no thematic tie to it. As it stands I would describe the class as "A master of the Soul-forged Weapon. Who also happens to derive minor additional benefits* from extra arms."

    *Minor additional benefits because the inherent bonus is all you get that someone else with extra arms wouldn't get.

    3. Ok.

    4. I wasn't clear there. Mutations and Teratomorphisms that allow a save have a save of (10 + Half Mutator level + Ability Score Modifier). Your teratomorphisms are not listing what the ability score modifier in question is. I suggested that it is probably either Str or Cha.

    5. Reasonable.

    6. Great and somewhat adresses the matter of the disconnect with multiple arms.

    Speaking of that disconnect, maybe tying the innate lore of the class to the Hecatoncheires would work on that front.

    7. Yes. I noticed. The level 20 scaling effect is of arguable advantage, however.

    8/9. Needs the wording improved. It should probably be written as:



    10. It is mostly a preference of mine. Nothing big.
    2/6.5. Rewrote a bit of the fluff, but I've always been more of a mechanics man that a fluff master. I'll think some more on integrating it.

    4. Could have sworn it defaulted to charisma unless stated otherwise. Must have been something else I was thinking of. Sorry about that confusion.

    7. I might shift it down some levels, with the 20th level ability basically giving full wish teleport. Thoughts on 15 becoming 10, 20 becoming 15, and 20 getting an upgrade?
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  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Speaking of PrC critiques, did you ever look over the revised Soul Evolutionist?
    Just checked, much more streamlined and easy to use. I approve! I would just set Mutable Soul to 5 minutes so that it matches Anomalous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    2/6.5. Rewrote a bit of the fluff, but I've always been more of a mechanics man that a fluff master. I'll think some more on integrating it.

    4. Could have sworn it defaulted to charisma unless stated otherwise. Must have been something else I was thinking of. Sorry about that confusion.

    7. I might shift it down some levels, with the 20th level ability basically giving full wish teleport. Thoughts on 15 becoming 10, 20 becoming 15, and 20 getting an upgrade?
    4. Not sure if I wrote that but ok.

    7. Eh. It looks fine, for the most part.

    Weaponthane Ascendant has been linked along with the other PrCs.
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  15. - Top - End - #495
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Another Prestige Class for the wonderful Evolutionist. Inspired by the Glare mutation.

    Evolved Seer
    'I see everything.' An Evolved Seer

    Some people seek the power to enhance their sensory abilities to prevent others from catching them unaware. Others seek to control the sensory information that others receive to help catch them unaware. Then there are Evolved Seers, who seek to increase their sight to levels beyond any other, and to control the senses of others.

    Their forms vary dramatically, but the one thing all Evolved Seers share is eyes. Some say that eyes are the windows to the soul, but for Evolved Seers eyes are a powerful weapon.

    Entry Requirements
    Feats: Ability Focus (Glare)
    Skills: Search 8 ranks, and Spot 8 ranks.
    Special: Darkvision mutation, Extra Senses mutation, and Glare mutation

    HD: d8
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation, Dangerous Eye

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation, Precognitive Eye

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation, Prescient Eye

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation, Omnisight
    [/table]
    Class Skills (2 + Int Modifier): The Evolved Seer can choose the class skills of any one of their base classes to be their class skills for this class, this choice cannot be changed.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Evolved Seers gain no new proficiencies with weapons or armor.

    Mutations: The Evolved Seer gains three mutations per level.

    Eye Mutation: The Evolved Seer gains access to a special mutation list. Additionally they get one additional mutation per level that must be selected from this list.

    Dangerous Eye: The Evolved Seer may take the Glare mutation once every two mutator levels instead of the normal once per three mutator levels. Additionally the Evolved Seer gains a bonus to Spot and Search checks equal to their Evolved Seer level.

    Precognitive Eye: The Evolved Seer gains an insight bonus to armor class, attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws equal to one third their mutator level plus one. The bonus to saving throws is doubled against illusion based spells and abilities. They lose this bonus anytime they would lose their Dexterity bonus to armor class, and anytime that they are blinded.

    Prescient Eye: The Evolved Seer can no longer be surprised. They can always take a standard action during a surprise round, unless they are physically restrained from doing so. If there is no surprise round then this ability doesn’t help. Additionally they gain an insight bonus to initiative rolls equal to one third their mutator level.

    Omnisight: The Evolved Seer no longer takes a penalty to Spot when distracted, and their Spot skill is in effect even while they are asleep. They gain the ability to use Greater Scrying as a Supernatural ability a number of times per day equal to half their Evolved Seer level. (Save DC: 10 + half the Evolved Seer's mutator level + the Evolved Seer's Charisma modifier)

    Eye Mutations: Unless otherwise noted the Glare mutations do not alter Gaze, and the Gaze mutations do not alter Glare.
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    Deadly Illusion [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare, Hypnotic Eyes, Mutator level 12
    Ability Score: Charisma
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer can manipulate the senses of others to inflict tremendous fear. This effect works exactly like the Phantasmal Killer spell, except for its save DC, and partial effect. The target takes 1d6 damage per four mutator levels on a successful Fortitude save.
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once.

    Death Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare
    Ability Score: Charisma
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer can fire a bolt of destructive energy against a target within 60 feet as a ranged touch attack, dealing 1d6 damage for every four mutator levels plus their Evolved Seer level. Any opponent hit by an Evolved Seer's Death Glare must make a save as though they were targeted with one of the Evolved Seer's Glare abilities with the following differences: the save DC is decreased by -2, and the duration is only one round.
    Using Death Glare is a ranged attack action which provokes attacks of opportunity.
    Further Mutations: Each time this mutation is taken, the Evolved Seer can fire an extra bolt of destructive energy as part of a full attack, and the range of the Death Glare increases by 20 feet. All iterative attacks with Death Glares use the Evolved Seer's highest attack bonus. This mutation can be taken once per five mutator levels.

    Elemental Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Death Glare, Elemental Lance, Glare, Mutator level 11
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer may empower their Death Glare with elemental power. Their Death Glares do an additional 1d6 damage for each iteration of Elemental Lance they have taken, this damage is of the same type as their strongest Elemental Lance.
    Further Mutations: There is no point in taking this mutation more than once.

    Empowered Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The duration of the Evolved Seer's Glare effects are increased by 1d4 rounds.
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once per ten mutator levels.

    Enlarged Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The range of the Evolved Seer's Glare abilities is increased by 30 feet.
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once per five mutator levels.

    Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: None
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer may use their required Eye Mutations on Glare.
    Further mutations: This is an upgrade to the default Glare mutation, it is not a separate mutation from that one and shares the same limits.

    Hypnotic Eyes [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare
    Ability Score: Charisma
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer can manipulate the senses of others. This effect works exactly like the Major Image spell, except for its save DC, and duration. These illusions last for as long as the Evolved Seer concentrates.
    Further Mutations: If this mutation is taken a second time the duration increases to one minuter per level as Persistent Image. This mutation can be taken once per ten levels up to two times.

    Lie Detecting Eyes [Extraordinary]
    Prerequisite: Extra Senses
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer can see subtle changes as people lie. They may use their Spot skill instead of their Sense Motive skill to oppose Bluff checks.
    Further Mutations: If this mutation is taken a second time the Evolved Seer may use their Search skill instead of their Forgery skill to detect forgeries. This mutation can be taken up two times.

    Quickened Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare with a one round cooldown
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer has no minimum cooldown on their Glare abilities, and all of their Glare abilities have their cooldown reduced by one round.
    Further Mutations: If this mutation is taken a second time the Evolved Seer may use one of their Glare abilities as an attack action once per turn. This mutation can be taken once per ten mutator levels, up to two times.

    Supernatural Eyes [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Extra Senses, Mutator level 11
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer's Darkvision pierces magical darkness as if it were normal darkness.
    Further Mutations: If this mutation is taken a second time the Evolved Seer gains Arcane Sight as a permanent effect active on themself with a caster level equal to their mutator level. If this mutation is taken a third time the Evolved Seer gains True Seeing as a permanent effect active on themself with a caster level equal to their mutator level. This mutation can be taken once per seven levels, up to three times.

    Versatile Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Two separate Glare abilities
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer may use their best Glare cooldown on all of their Glare abilities.
    Further Mutations: There is no point in taking this mutation more than once.

    Widened Gaze [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Gaze
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The range of the Evolved Seer's Gaze abilities is increased by 30 feet.
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once per ten mutator levels, up to two times.
    Last edited by Tesla; 2013-04-12 at 06:17 AM. Reason: Version 1.2 [Now with light fluff!]

  16. - Top - End - #496
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Draken's Avatar

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    This one will be a dozy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    Another Prestige Class for the wonderful Evolutionist. Inspired by the Glare mutation, and no real fluff for ease of use.

    Evolved Seer
    'I see everything.' An Evolved Seer

    Entry Requirements
    Feats: Ability Focus (Glare)
    Skills: Search 8 ranks, and Spot 8 ranks.
    Special: Extra Senses mutation, Glare mutation, and Umbravision mutation.
    Umbravision in this case becomes a mandatory feat into Outsider, no real point to it.

    HD: d8
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation, Eye Teratomorph II

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation, Eye Teratomorph III

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation, Eye Teratomorph IV

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Mutations, Eye Mutation, Eye Teratomorph V
    [/table]
    Class Skills (2 + Int Modifier): The Evolved Seer can choose the class skills of any one of their base classes to be their class skills for this class, this choice cannot be changed.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Evolved Seers gain no new proficiencies with weapons or armor.
    Carry on.

    Mutations: The Evolved Seer gains three mutations per level.

    Eye Mutation: The Evolved Seer gains access to a special mutation list. Additionally they get one additional mutation per level that must be selected from this list.
    Reasonable. But there is a problem that will be adressed later.

    Eye Teratomorph: The Evolved Seer gains a teratomorphism at their first, fourth, seventh, and tenth levels. These teratomorphisms must be drawn from the following list. This ability also counts as having unlocked the appropriately ranked teratomorphisms when gaining a teratomorphism from any other class.

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    Teratomorph II:
    Improved Vision: The Evolved Seer may take the Glare mutation once every two mutator levels instead of the normal once per three mutator levels. Additionally the Evolved Seer gains a bonus to Spot and Search checks equal to the number of teratomorphisms they have.

    Teratomorph III:
    Greater Vision (Requires Improved Vision): The Evolved Seer gains an insight bonus to armor class, attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws equal to the number of teratomorphisms they have. They lose this bonus anytime they would lose their Dexterity bonus to armor class, and anytime that they are blinded.

    Teratomorph IV:
    Superior Vision (Requires Greater Vision): The Evolved Seer can no longer be surprised. They can always take a standard action during a surprise round, unless they are physically restrained from doing so. If there is no surprise round then this ability doesn’t help. Additionally they gain an insight bonus to initiative rolls equal to the number of teratomorphisms they have.

    Teratomorph V:
    Omniscient Vision (Requires Superior Vision): The Evolved Seer gains All-Around Vision (+4 to Spot and Search. Can no longer be flanked.) They no longer take a penalty to Spot when distracted, and their Spot skill is in effect even while they are asleep, albeit at a -10 penalty. Additionally they may use Scrying as a Supernatural ability once per day. (Save DC: 10 + half the Evolved Seer's mutator level + the Evolved Seer's Charisma modifier)
    Here we have a minor issue. Namely, teratomorphs are choices. There is no choice here whatsoever. These should lose the "Teratomorph" appelation and merely become their own individual class features.

    Also the names are kind of bland. last one should probably be renamed as Omnisight. Anyway, onto their individual issues:

    Improved Vision: Like I said, change these to not be teratomorphisms and change the bonus to be outright class level based.

    Greater Vision: Same as before.

    Superior Vision: This one is weird. it is not so much about vision as it is about reaction time. Needs to be reconsidered.

    Omniscient Vision: By parts:
    • The Evolved Seer gains All-Around Vision (+4 to Spot and Search. Can no longer be flanked.)

    Extra Senses does this with the second or third acquisition. I would have to check.
    • They no longer take a penalty to Spot when distracted, and their Spot skill is in effect even while they are asleep, albeit at a -10 penalty.

    Interesting but far from great. In fact, Quick Reconnoiter (feat in Dungeonscape) is arguably equivalent while avaiable much earlier.
    • Additionally they may use Scrying as a Supernatural ability once per day. (Save DC: 10 + half the Evolved Seer's mutator level + the Evolved Seer's Charisma modifier)

    4th ish level spell. Once per day. At level 15. Gotta be honest here. Pass.

    Eye Mutations: Unless otherwise noted the Glare mutations do not alter Gaze, and the Gaze mutations do not alter Glare.
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    Death Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare
    Ability Score: Charisma
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer can fire a bolt of destructive energy against a target within 60 feet as a ranged touch attack, dealing 1d6 damage for every four mutator levels. Any opponent hit by an Evolved Seer's Death Glare must then save against one of their Glare abilities. The Glare effect caused by this ability is weakened. The save DC is decreased by -2, and the duration of the effect is only one round.
    Using Death Glare is a ranged attack action which provokes attacks of opportunity.
    Further Mutations: Each time this mutation is taken, the Evolved Seer can fire an extra bolt of destructive energy as part of a full attack, and the range of the Death Glare increases by 20 feet. All iterative attacks with Death Glares use the Evolved Seer's highest attack bonus. This mutation can be taken once per five mutator levels.

    Weirdly worded. Questionable utility.

    Elemental Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Death Glare, Elemental Lance, Glare, Mutator level 11
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer may empower their Death Glare with elemental power. Their Death Glares do an additional 1d6 damage for each iteration of Elemental Lance they have taken, this damage is of the same type as their strongest Elemental Lance.
    Further Mutations: There is no point in taking this mutation more than once.

    Elemental lance remains bjectively better if you just want to hurt things.

    Empowered Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The duration of the Evolved Seer's Glare effects is increased by 1d4 rounds.
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once per ten mutator levels.

    This is good.

    Enlarged Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The range of the Evolved Seer's Glare abilities is increased by 30 feet.
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once per five mutator levels.

    Reasonable.

    Farsighted Eyes [Extraordinary]
    Prerequisite: Extra Senses
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer is better at seeing things at a distance. They take a distance penalty on Spot every 20 feet instead of the normal 10 feet.
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once.

    Questionable worth.

    Heightened Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare, Mutator level 11
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The save DC of the Evolved Seer's Glare abilities is increased by +1
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once.

    Boring.

    Lie Detecting Eyes [Extraordinary]
    Prerequisite: Extra Senses
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer can see subtle changes as people lie. They may use their Spot skill instead of their Sense Motive skill to oppose Bluff checks.
    Further Mutations: If this mutation is taken a second time the Evolved Seer may use their Search skill instead of their Forgery skill to detect forgeries. This mutation can be taken up two times.

    Looks more like a single feat than a mutation.

    Quickened Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Glare with a one round cooldown
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer may use any Glare ability that has a one round cooldown as an at will ability.
    Further Mutations: If this mutation is taken a second time the Evolved Seer may use one of their at will Glare abilities as an attack action once per turn. This mutation can be taken once per ten mutator levels, up to two times.

    Weird wording.

    Versatile Glare [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Two separate Glare abilities
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The Evolved Seer may use their best Glare cooldown on all of their Glare abilities.
    Further Mutations: There is no point in taking this mutation more than once.

    Decent.

    Widened Gaze [Supernatural]
    Prerequisite: Gaze
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: The range of the Evolved Seer's Gaze abilities is increased by 30 feet.
    Further Mutations: This mutation can be taken once.

    Decent. I would have made it go up to double size, however.


    One hidden issue, however, is this.

    This is a total of 18 mutations to be chosen, at least two of which only come online after after you are done with the class. So 16. A tiny pool from which to draw your 10 mutations. A few of these are... Not all that great either.
    Overall, I see a lot of issues.

    It also paints a good image of why I put odd themes in the evolutionist PrCs. The Evolutionist base class is really great at generic fluff. And while the themes are not mandatory (Diciples of Thessala and Malshaper's don't have to worship their respective undivine patrons, for instance), they serve to tie together what could otherwise be nothing more than disconnected abilities and give it some personality. That is the point of PrCs, I think, they need to have a personality of their own moreso than base classes.
    Last edited by Draken; 2013-04-04 at 02:14 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #497
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Just checked, much more streamlined and easy to use. I approve! I would just set Mutable Soul to 5 minutes so that it matches Anomalous.
    I had considered that. Reinvesting essentia is normally a swift action, though you normally can only invest in feats once per day. I decided in the end that a full-round action would make it slightly more attractive than Anomalous but slightly most costly than normal essentia investment. Also remember that being an [incarnum] feat, its effects are suppressed in an antimagic field, causing you to lose any mutation you have gained from it. With that in mind, I did not see a problem with making it a bit faster than Anomalous.
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  18. - Top - End - #498
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I would call a bit faster than anomalous 1 minute, not a full-round action. That is a lot faster.

  19. - Top - End - #499
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    5 mins > 1 min > 1 round > full-round action > standard action > move action > swift action

    Anomalous = 5 mins.
    Invest Essentia = Swift
    Three steps to the right from Anomalous = Full-Round Action
    Three steps to the left from Invest Essentia = Full-Round Action

    Seemed like the most reasonable to me...
    Last edited by Rizban; 2013-04-04 at 03:13 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #500
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    I would call a bit faster than anomalous 1 minute, not a full-round action. That is a lot faster.
    Not really, actually.By the end of edition 3.5, D&D designers pretty much used "5 minutes" to mean "encounter". It is an arbitrary value to make the baility unfeasible to use in combat.

    As a full-round action, it is an ability that can be used midfight, specially if the mutations you want to pick up are defensive, swift actions, free actions or otherwise passive. Quite useful, I would say.

    Anyway, no issues with it then.
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  21. - Top - End - #501
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    [Prerequisites] 1. Umbravision replaced with Darkvision.

    [Teratomorph] 2. Eye Teratomorphisms have been changed into individual class features.

    [Teratomorph IV] 3. Superior Vision/Prescient Eye is meant to provide a bonus representative of insight of events yet to happen along with Greater Vision/Precognitive Eye.

    [Teratomorph V] 4. That is accurate in a way, as Improved Uncanny Dodge is very similar. So that ability has been removed. Quick Reconnoiter allows you to make a Spot/Listen check as a free action, but I did not see anything about Spot being usable while asleep. Which is not that great of an ability to be honest, but befitting for someone who is supposed to be aware of everything. Still it has been upgraded to be more in line with a cap stone ability. Scrying changed to Greater Scrying, and usable up to five times a day.

    [Death Glare] 5. I like the idea of Death Glare as adding some damage output, and providing more avenues to apply Glare effects. However it has been changed to be hopefully better worded, and a bit more viable.

    [Elemental Glare] 6. If you just want to hurt things then Elemental Lance is better, but if you want to hurt with a chance for nifty status effects without teratomorphisms then Death Glare has an edge. Additionally since you have to have Elemental Lance already you get quite a few attack actions with this combination.

    [Farsighted Eyes, Heightened Glare] 7. Considering what the Evolutionist is meant to embody, these have been removed as the aim is more for Awesome, but Practical.

    [Lie Detecting Eyes] 8. This will most likely tie into the flavor that will be worked on, and is admittedly inspired by a particular eye from a series I read.

    [Quickened Glare] 9. Wording adjusted.

    [Mutations] 10. I admit that I may have run out of steam on the list. Since there should not be a huge problem with some overlap I added Umbravision/Arcane Sight/True Seeing as a mutation tree. Additionally I have added several other mutations that should fit with the class when I am done adding flavor.

    [Flavor] 11. This is a fair point, and so I will work on adding flavor soon. Still the crunch is there in case someone wants to rate it, and the fluff is on the way. Thank you for the advice.

  22. - Top - End - #502
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I dropped the levels of the rift ability down 3 each. I feel a lot better about those points looking at it now.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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  23. - Top - End - #503
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I wasn't saying it was too fast, just much faster than 5 min. If you go from never during combat to a few times in an encounter, that's a lot faster.
    Last edited by Omnicrat; 2013-04-05 at 11:37 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #504
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    So... It's like gaining a new ability from leveling up? From never to a few times?

    But really, if you're spending full-rounds actions to repeatedly change some of your mutations in combat, you're wasting your actions. Once is all you should ever need in combat.

    I do think, however, that I will add a caveat disallowing a "refresh" on times per day for limited use mutations.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2013-04-05 at 12:05 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #505
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Is there a list of all associated PrCs somewhere?
    I like the ideas!

  26. - Top - End - #506
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zireael View Post
    Is there a list of all associated PrCs somewhere?
    I like the ideas!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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  27. - Top - End - #507
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Selinia's Progenitor PrC probably makes this unnecessary, but I do occasionally find myself pondering what a PrC intended for evolutionists multiclassing into Lix Lorn's Swarmlord class would look like. (I was going to call it "dual progression," but that wouldn't quite be right...)

  28. - Top - End - #508
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I like the progenitor class.

    How about making a PrC for a mutator's natural, literal offspring?

  29. - Top - End - #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durazno View Post
    Selinia's Progenitor PrC probably makes this unnecessary, but I do occasionally find myself pondering what a PrC intended for evolutionists multiclassing into Lix Lorn's Swarmlord class would look like. (I was going to call it "dual progression," but that wouldn't quite be right...)
    The progenitor does fill that niche, to an extent. But there is also the detail that the Swarmlord does a lot and has a lot of potential power. A dual progression class would be hard to balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zireael View Post
    I like the progenitor class.

    How about making a PrC for a mutator's natural, literal offspring?
    That would be better shaped by a feat or maybe a "build it yourself" race, than by a prestige class. Or maybe simply by taking levels of evolutionist on the offspring itself.
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  30. - Top - End - #510
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    A bloodline might work, too.

    And yeah, dual-progression with the Swarmlord would probably be overkill. A short PrC with synergistic abilities might be doable, though. I'll be thinking about it (and other, equally absurd prospects), anyway.
    Last edited by Durazno; 2013-04-06 at 04:16 PM.

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