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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    motoko's ghost's Avatar

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    Default Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamentation

    Welcome one and all to the fifth zinc saucier challenge, where playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds.

    The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the secret ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

    For the fifth challenge get ready to scream your order at the waiter as its the Player's handbook's Barbarian

    Our challengers will have 2 weeks to build a complete build from lvs 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material(excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Barbarian without actually using any levels in it.
    Entries Must be submitted by 1st June 5:00PM GMT

    Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 5 categories;

    * Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
    * Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
    * Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
    * Fluff (How well the characters back-stories and classes mesh)
    * Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)


    Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

    Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.
    Sauciers can submit as many builds as they want but please don't use leadership, as we don't want to overfeed the judges


    Also it comes with double prize money.

    Previous challenges;
    1. Soulknife
    2. Bard
    3. Monk
    4. Assassin
    Last edited by motoko's ghost; 2012-05-22 at 01:55 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Huh, turns out there's a limit to how long I can make those thread titles, it should read "and hear the lamentation of their players"

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    I'm in as a judge this time. I'll be posting criteria sometime soon.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    I'm competing for this one, already have a basic sketch of a concept done.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Judging criteria:

    Generally, entries will start at 3 in each category, with bonuses and penalties assessed from that starting point. Please list the sources of all feats/classes used outside of the SRD, sometimes it takes me a while to find a particular item.

    * Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)

    -> Is the build boring? What new tricks did you find or use? Does it look like the other entries? Are you unique in some way? Bonuses will be awarded for using races, classes, concepts, feats that others did not. Penalties will be assessed for "expected" tricks, slight penalties may be assessed if multiple entries use the same overall build. If it seems "vanilla" you will be assessed a penalty of some sort.

    * Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)

    -> How strong is this character compared to a straight half-orc barbarian 20 build? How strong is this character compared to other entries? Is this character a one-trick pony? How does it function if that trick doesn't work? Bonuses will be awarded for being more powerful than a barbarian and the other competitors, as well as over-all utility both in and outside of combat. Penalties will be assessed for being weaker, overall, than a barbarian and/or other competitors, and for not having a minimum BAB of +16 (four attacks) at level 20. You should be able to do as much raw damage as a raging barbarian at level 20, otherwise a penalty will be assessed.

    * Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)

    -> How does the build feel? Is it chopped and ugly, with small, unjustified dips? Are the dips completely justified and rationale? Do you meet the pre-requisites for each feat and class when you take it? Obscure classes and feats that get you what you need will not be penalized, nor will 1-2 level dips that make sense, both at the time you took it and with regards to the overall flavor of the ingredient. Bonuses will be awarded for smart, legal decisions that get you towards your goal, obtaining class features of barbarian in a similar time frame. Penalties will be assessed for not meeting pre-requisites at the time you took a class or feat, for dips that do not add to the flavor of the dish sufficiently (in comparison to a different dip), and for questionable reading of the rules.


    * Fluff (How well the characters back-stories and classes mesh)

    -> How does your story grab me? Does it blend seamlessly with the build? Does it make sense? Are you changing alignment solely to move into a PrC? Bonuses will be awarded for an interesting story that takes your starting character at level 1 all the way to 20, penalties will be reserved for decisions (class entries) unsupported by any story. Length really does not matter too much, a well-written paragraph may well be awarded more points than a one-page boring story.


    * Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

    -> Does the entry feel like a barbarian? How well does the entry attain or exceed the abilities of a barbarian 20? If I stood your entry next to a barbarian, would I really be able to tell them apart? Bonuses will be awarded for meeeting or exceeding all basic barbarian class features and abilities (or alternate class features of a barbarian, please cite which ones you are going for). Penalties will be assessed for failure to get basic class features without explanation of how what you can do is equivalent or better.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    motoko's ghost's Avatar

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Wow, mattie_p looks like you've done some serious preparation with those criteria

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Well, I have entered two of these competitions, as well as two iron chef competitions. While my results in Zinc Saucier have been mixed (one non-judged officially, with belated judging I tied for second, one fourth place showing), I placed second in the last IC competition. I have thought about how to judge for a while and want to give the competitors the best assessment of my palate before they enter the competition.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Question for the judges...
    Are you looking for plain levels that makes a barbarian template or is it ok to add in things like bloodlines,elder evils, templates, races, etc to simulate one?

    I understand that it might affect juding score for some, im just curious.

    Ill try to see if i get the time to enter.
    No spoilers in this signature.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Quote Originally Posted by motoko's ghost View Post
    Our challengers will have 2 weeks to build a complete build from lvs 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material(excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Monk without actually using any levels in it.
    Entries Must be submitted by 1st June 5:00PM GMT
    Bloodlines, elder evils, templates, races, etc are perfectly acceptable. In the last round, assassin, two entries (including mine) used the marrulurk race from Sandstorm to gain a death attack as well as some sneak attack dice. Also in the last competition, one entry applied the ghost template towards the end of their career.

    Unusual races, templates, classes, and other crazy methods to achieve the goal (replicating a barbarian) are par for the course, expected, and desirable, as they tend to earn points in pretty much every category so long as they mesh.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Man, i forgot i have never built a barbarian. So i need to check that out before i can simulate one...

    If i have any rule questions, who do i ask?
    No spoilers in this signature.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Best place to post is either here or in the Simple Q&A D&D 3.5 thread. Motoko's ghost is the final authority for the purposes of this contest, but the answerers on the Q&A thread (which include myself, sometimes) will probably be definitive enough. If you post in this thread, try to do so in a way that does not reveal significant portions of your proposed build.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Quote Originally Posted by motoko's ghost View Post
    ... with the abilities and feel of a Monk without actually using any levels in it.
    I guess this is a copy-paste mishap ?
    Last edited by Zubrowka74; 2012-05-22 at 10:54 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Exclamation Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Quote Originally Posted by Zubrowka74 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by motoko's ghost
    ... with the abilities and feel of a Monk without actually using any levels in it.
    I guess this is a copy-paste mishap ?
    How did that get there! I deliberately double-checked for that exact mistake before posting! :flipstable:

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    I take it that Frenzied Berserker is off limits?

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    I take it that Frenzied Berserker is off limits?
    I don't see why it should be, just be aware that its a relatively obvious choice.

    Also yes you can use Elder evils and that stuff, just be aware that cheesing it out too hard might not fly with some judges

    Other than that go nuts!

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    So, how are all the competitors doing? I hope the builds are starting to come together.

    Also, bump for any who might have forgotten...
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    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Might be revising my build to play something more original.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Suddo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    I take it that Frenzied Berserker is off limits?
    Yeah that was my first thought. But as stated above its probably not preferred due to it would fall low on the uniqueness/originality scale. Beyond that I hope to be a contestant in this one. Let's see what I can pull out of my hat.

    Edit: I forget if you can enter multiple builds, not version but completely different builds.
    Last edited by Suddo; 2012-05-29 at 06:33 PM.
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    Currently Glanror in the Political Shenanigans campaign.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rankar View Post
    *I may not teach the paladin communism and the concept of the greater good.
    *It is not within my rights to overthrow the established monarchy using the communist paladin.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Multiple builds are fine, I believe. Just pm them to the Chairman upon completion. I won't see who sent them, so beware if the builds are too similar, you might get docked originality points for your own builds.
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    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    motoko's ghost's Avatar

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    I was starting to get worried that everyone had forgotten about this for a moment there :sweatdrop:
    You can submit as many builds as you complete, just PM them to me
    By the way, I know mattie_p is judging and I'll probably end up judging too but is anyone else up for judging?

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    I'll likely have some time this weekend, so there's a decent chance that I'll take another stab at it.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    I'll likely have some time this weekend, so there's a decent chance that I'll take another stab at it.
    Builds are due on Friday.
    I may be competing or judgeing
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon
    The Underlord, you are clearly awesome.
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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    Builds are due on Friday.
    I may be competing or judgeing
    Holy crap I didn't see until the day I posted. My build might be a bit rushed.
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    Currently Glanror in the Political Shenanigans campaign.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rankar View Post
    *I may not teach the paladin communism and the concept of the greater good.
    *It is not within my rights to overthrow the established monarchy using the communist paladin.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    motoko's ghost's Avatar

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    If need be, I can push back the deadline a bit, I'd rather wait an extra couple of days then not get any builds

    EDIT: just got the first build in!
    Last edited by motoko's ghost; 2012-05-30 at 09:27 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    motoko's ghost's Avatar

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    I've got the first 2 builds so far, but I know that there is another 2 in the works, do people want me to extend the deadline slightly?

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    I'm not building, I'm judging. But a slight extension might be appropriate. Don't make a habit of it, though!
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    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Maybe a one day extension? I think a lot of people were expecting the contest to end on Saturday, as I think they have in the past, instead of Friday.
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  28. - Top - End - #28
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    motoko's ghost's Avatar

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    5PM GMT tomorrow then

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Any new entries?
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 5: To crush their builds and hear the lamenta

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gilded Duke View Post
    Any new entries?
    Unfortunately not, I know Suddo said he was going to and Kuulvheysoon&The Underlord said they might enter, but I haven't received anything from them yet.

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