A Magical World War, or What if Voldemort had won?

[Fjolnir]

A wand far outstrips a gun in usefulness, a gun provides one with a very limited skillset, while a wand is essentially a well stocked survivalist pack, lockpicks, AND a gun. By that I mean you give a similarly skilled muggle a gun and a wizard their wand and dump them in the woods somewhere, the wizard will come out on top due to the massive amount of toolbox just having magic provides...

[Terry576]

WOG has stated, as we all know, that a powerful wizard vs a muggle with a shotgun is at least 50-50 and probably a sure muggle win. And that's a farmer with a gun. Now imagine if MI5 or KGB got their hands on some wizards...

Quote doesn't exist. Try and find it, and you will find that it does not actually exist off of a reliable source.

[ChaosLord29]

A wand far outstrips a gun in usefulness, a gun provides one with a very limited skillset, while a wand is essentially a well stocked survivalist pack, lockpicks, AND a gun. By that I mean you give a similarly skilled muggle a gun and a wizard their wand and dump them in the woods somewhere, the wizard will come out on top due to the massive amount of toolbox just having magic provides...

Drop em both in the woods, yes. But face them off at 20 paces and tell them to kill each other? The Muggle has the advantage. Wands can do a whole lot of things, but spells to kill people with require a good deal of strength and most importantly the intent to kill. There's probably a few dozen ways you could disable someone, but the actual curses and spells that can cause death require one thing a gun doesn't: intent to kill.

Not every wizard can pick up a wand and use the killing curse, fiendfyre, or more malicious spells. Anyone, even a child, can pick up a gun and commit multiple murders.

[Fjolnir]

what about disabling spells that don't require malice to channel them, such as petrificus totalus? heck the disarming charm seems to do a lot more than that in the movies, someone who has mastered silent casting could easily beat a gunfighter at 20 paces, he just might not outright KILL him

[pendell]

what about disabling spells that don't require malice to channel them, such as petrificus totalus? heck the disarming charm seems to do a lot more than that in the movies, someone who has mastered silent casting could easily beat a gunfighter at 20 paces, he just might not outright KILL him

This assumes that the two combatants face off like gunfighters and first draw wins. What if it's a sniper duel? What if the muggle knows how to dig a pit trap? Does the wizard have the ability to find food? How will the wizard keep watch if s/he sleeps? Can the wizard be tricked into shooting at a decoy? Will invisibility work for the wizard if the wizard nonetheless doesn't know how to move silently in the bush and starts crashing around?

For Metal Gear fans, how would Voldemort and Naked Snake/Big Boss fare against each other if they were both dropped into a jungle with choice of any equipment/spells/whatever they desire? Only one rule: Two men enter, one man comes out. Further assume that each is given a full tactical briefing on the other's capabilities.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[1dominator]

They do not need to kill us all, they just need to sabotage our infrastructure and society will come toppling down like a house of cards. It really would be no contest, the modern world is far to dependent on fragile systems of supply to survive attack by an army of teleporting, mind controlling terrorists. You have to appreciate how difficult is to feed, supply and maintain a population of 7+ billion. The logistical task of moving food, goods, people and energy about would become night impossible in the face of opposition that can by anywhere in an instant. They wouldnt even have to touch the army, political system or cities, just let them starve and freeze to death.

Or voldemort would do something dumb and try to engage the whole world in open total war, that seems more likely.

[Xondoure]

Yeah. Let's start by imagining just how dangerous terrorists are in the real world. They're nearly impossible to track down, a single one in the right place can cause untold devastation, and they have no direct power base to strike against.

Now make them unplottable teleporting mind controllers. It isn't a fight.

[Gnoman]

Not every wizard can pick up a wand and use the killing curse, fiendfyre, or more malicious spells. Anyone, even a child, can pick up a gun and commit multiple murders.

Even if you stretch the definition of "child" up to the early teens, most people would have a hard time killing someone with a gun. It's far more difficult to hit a man-sized target at anything but point-blank range than TV or video games would suggest. If the target is moving, and at a decent range, it's far more difficult. YOu need some form of combat training, or hours on the firing range, to have a decent chance.

On the converse, every single wizard in Britain has rudimentary combat training, and the least skilled have been shown to perform disabling attacks.

Note that dodging plays heavily in wizard duels. Outside of the formal dueling club, pretty much every wizard fight seen involves lots of movement, so shooting a wizard would be no easier than shooting a muggle soldier.

[CapnRedBeard]

That's why the death toll is going to be so high in the beginning. It will take a LONG time for the world to come to grips with being attacked by actual wizards. Confusion and dissonance will prevent organized resistance, and during that time the slaughtering will continue.

Once the humans catch on, however, and formulate retaliations...?

Well, again I want to actually see Rowling's quote on a properly warded wizard being vulnerable to gunfire.

Really? How long did it take Americans to get upset at Muslims after 9-11?

3 minutes?

A plan to remove the leadership of the enemy was probably all set in a few days. That's all these war rooms do. Plan war. Against everybody.

I'd bet my life there are plans for alien invasion where the technology is vastly superior to our own. Honestly? Wizards technology is NOT vastly superior to our own. Still waiting to hear about the Wizards version of the internet. And they are the minority.

[CapnRedBeard]

Even if you stretch the definition of "child" up to the early teens, most people would have a hard time killing someone with a gun. It's far more difficult to hit a man-sized target at anything but point-blank range than TV or video games would suggest. If the target is moving, and at a decent range, it's far more difficult. YOu need some form of combat training, or hours on the firing range, to have a decent chance.

On the converse, every single wizard in Britain has rudimentary combat training, and the least skilled have been shown to perform disabling attacks.

Note that dodging plays heavily in wizard duels. Outside of the formal dueling club, pretty much every wizard fight seen involves lots of movement, so shooting a wizard would be no easier than shooting a muggle soldier.

lolz. Machine guns are easy to hit people with...they literally spray bullets. Let some wizard hop left n right while I empty a bananna clip from a AK47.
Point and shoot. Your life or mine...most humans will pull the trigger.

Hope wizards are better at being wary of predators and running away at long range than deer are. Because deer are are no match whatsoever for an hunter with a steady aim.

[Gnoman]

lolz. Machine guns are easy to hit people with...they literally spray bullets. Let some wizard hop left n right while I empty a bananna clip from a AK47.
Point and shoot. Your life or mine...most humans will pull the trigger.

Hope wizards are better at being wary of predators and running away at long range than deer are. Because deer are are no match whatsoever for an hunter with a steady aim.

You may be able to rapid fire from an AK. Most civilians or cops can't. Handheld machine guns are extremely difficult for even trained troops to use, which is why the BAR and M14 were removed from service. As for crew-served-weapons, which are more feasible, they aren't all that portable, and take time to get into position.

Note that I never said soldiers would have problems. It was the idea that "any muggle can pick up a gun" that I have objections to.

[Murska]

Basically if the wizards are smart, they easily win. If they're stupid, they lose. And Voldemort is likely to be stupid.

[Fjolnir]

basically once wizards figure out what a transformer station is, and how crucial they are to preventing mass civil unrest, muggles have a shot. Because once major cities start getting blacked out during the summer or the winter and riots begin there would be ample opportunity for wizards to take control...

[Xondoure]

Why do people think Voldemort will be stupid? Yes wizards are ignorant but they've managed to keep the masquerade up for centuries. In fact, they already have direct access through the ministry to muggle centers for power. You don't become the uncontested most dangerous person in the wizarding world without being clever about it.

[pendell]

Yeah. Let's start by imagining just how dangerous terrorists are in the real world. They're nearly impossible to track down, a single one in the right place can cause untold devastation, and they have no direct power base to strike against.

Now make them unplottable teleporting mind controllers. It isn't a fight.

Terrorism is actually pretty poor at creating military results. Terrorism allows you to frighten people, to force people to take you seriously, to make demands which a society may meet, and it allows you to make life miserable for everyone in the target society as everyone now has to file travel papers, submit to scans, can't carry liquids on flights, etc.

But you can't, by terrorism, force an army to abandon an objective and you can't expect people to simply lay down and die because you've frightened them.

Terrorism, in short , is a political weapon, not a military weapon.

The most likely result of a campaign of magical terrorism would be to get the attention of the world's governments and put their dealing with you at the very top of their lists. The thing about fright is that it most often makes people angry, willing to do all kinds of things they normally wouldn't do.

I suggest infiltration and subversion offer the best chance of success, for the wizards. That or teleport off the planet , drop asteroids on it until everyone is dead by telekinesis, then return and take up residence.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[CapnRedBeard]

You may be able to rapid fire from an AK. Most civilians or cops can't. Handheld machine guns are extremely difficult for even trained troops to use, which is why the BAR and M14 were removed from service. As for crew-served-weapons, which are more feasible, they aren't all that portable, and take time to get into position.

Note that I never said soldiers would have problems. It was the idea that "any muggle can pick up a gun" that I have objections to.

There are over 150 million REGISTERED guns in America. I'd bet that there are three times as many that are unregistered. Believe that the millions upon millions upon millions of Americans with guns...have many guns...and are very well versed in their use. If you can hit a deer heart at 200 yards? You can hit a human.

Have you never shot a gun? They are very simple. Training could be done in about 20 minutes if in a emergency. 18 minutes of which would be basic safety. You have to learn how to put bullets in. You have to learn where the safety is. Only point at what you intend to kill. Then you can learn how to clean a gun I suppose.

[CapnRedBeard]

Terrorism is actually pretty poor at creating military results. Terrorism allows you to frighten people, to force people to take you seriously, to make demands which a society may meet, and it allows you to make life miserable for everyone in the target society as everyone now has to file travel papers, submit to scans, can't carry liquids on flights, etc.

But you can't, by terrorism, force an army to abandon an objective and you can't expect people to simply lay down and die because you've frightened them.

Terrorism, in short , is a political weapon, not a military weapon.

The most likely result of a campaign of magical terrorism would be to get the attention of the world's governments and put their dealing with you at the very top of their lists. The thing about fright is that it most often makes people angry, willing to do all kinds of things they normally wouldn't do.

I suggest infiltration and subversion offer the best chance of success, for the wizards. That or teleport off the planet , drop asteroids on it until everyone is dead by telekinesis, then return and take up residence.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Now that last idea has merit. The best way to deal with humanity is from space. We cannot get there easily. IF wizards can fly to the asteroid belt at faster than light speeds...and return at faster than light speeds with asteroids in tow...they could absolutely ruin the entire planet...for every species.

[Gnoman]

There are over 150 million REGISTERED guns in America. I'd bet that there are three times as many that are unregistered. Believe that the millions upon millions upon millions of Americans with guns...have many guns...and are very well versed in their use. If you can hit a deer heart at 200 yards? You can hit a human.

Have you never shot a gun? They are very simple. Training could be done in about 20 minutes if in a emergency. 18 minutes of which would be basic safety. You have to learn how to put bullets in. You have to learn where the safety is. Only point at what you intend to kill. Then you can learn how to clean a gun I suppose.

I've fired thousands of rounds. It takes longer than 20 minutes just to get tha hang of holding a gun, let alone aiming. Deer are far easier to hit than people are, since people dodge, while deer simply run in a straight line. Professional, Olympic-class marksmen have trouble hitting an evasive target, let alone one that shoots back.

[Xondoure]

Terrorism is actually pretty poor at creating military results. Terrorism allows you to frighten people, to force people to take you seriously, to make demands which a society may meet, and it allows you to make life miserable for everyone in the target society as everyone now has to file travel papers, submit to scans, can't carry liquids on flights, etc.

But you can't, by terrorism, force an army to abandon an objective and you can't expect people to simply lay down and die because you've frightened them.

Terrorism, in short , is a political weapon, not a military weapon.

The most likely result of a campaign of magical terrorism would be to get the attention of the world's governments and put their dealing with you at the very top of their lists. The thing about fright is that it most often makes people angry, willing to do all kinds of things they normally wouldn't do.

I suggest infiltration and subversion offer the best chance of success, for the wizards. That or teleport off the planet , drop asteroids on it until everyone is dead by telekinesis, then return and take up residence.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

It's a political battle, not a military one. The wizards never have to face us directly.

[ChaosLord29]

It's a political battle, not a military one. The wizards never have to face us directly.

That's part of the problem. Wizards can't win those either. If the ministry is any indication Wizarding politics are miserable.

The Death Eaters and Pro-pureblood magicians are not going to settle for anything less than total political and military dominion with the Muggle's crushed under their heel.

Not going to happen through terrorist tactics.

I've fired thousands of rounds. It takes longer than 20 minutes just to get tha hang of holding a gun, let alone aiming. Deer are far easier to hit than people are, since people dodge, while deer simply run in a straight line. Professional, Olympic-class marksmen have trouble hitting an evasive target, let alone one that shoots back.

I can't claim to have fired thousands of rounds, but it it only took me a few minutes to learn how to fire a hand gun and hit a target from I think, 40ft?

Most wizards can't manage a decent shield charm, let alone the kind of curses necessary to kill their enemies. Meanwhile, you can hand any person a gun, and they're capable of mass murder at 30 paces.

[Eldan]

So, I guess it comes down to the same thing again.

How smart are the wizards? If they are as silly as portrayed in the books, they lose, and hard. If they are smart, tech-savvy and actually study our society, they create a bloodbath.

[Gnoman]

That's part of the problem. Wizards can't win those either. If the ministry is any indication Wizarding politics are miserable.

The Death Eaters and Pro-pureblood magicians are not going to settle for anything less than total political and military dominion with the Muggle's crushed under their heel.

Not going to happen through terrorist tactics.



I can't claim to have fired thousands of rounds, but it it only took me a few minutes to learn how to fire a hand gun and hit a target from I think, 40ft?

Most wizards can't manage a decent shield charm, let alone the kind of curses necessary to kill their enemies. Meanwhile, you can hand any person a gun, and they're capable of mass murder at 30 paces.

Once again, A moving, evasive target is exponentially more difficult to hit than a stationary one. There's a reason the military spends a fortune on marksmanship training.

Second, lethal magic is not necessary to win in a fight. The spell Hermione used on Neville in the first book would be more than adequate for most purposes. I find it unlikely that any wizard could complete school without knowing at least that.

[Murska]

Don't most spells have to hit to effect, as well? And they're slow enough to be dodged, unlike bullets.

[Xondoure]

If this becomes an all out war the wizards have already lost. That is until someone invents a bullet repelling charm.

But wars aren't really fought that way when you have the toolset wizards do. And I still don't see how the muggle world will be anywhere near prepared for the full scale removal of their support grid and corruption of power that wizards are capable of.

[Soras Teva Gee]

If this becomes an all out war the wizards have already lost. That is until someone invents a bullet repelling charm.

But wars aren't really fought that way when you have the toolset wizards do. And I still don't see how the muggle world will be anywhere near prepared for the full scale removal of their support grid and corruption of power that wizards are capable of.

Which requires the one thing wizards are certifiably don't have, detailed and accurate knowledge of the Muggle world. And with a fanatic like Voldermort calling the shots, they won't get it. He'll put an idiot like Draco in charge of torturing info out of the Weasley's.

[Xondoure]

Which requires the one thing wizards are certifiably don't have, detailed and accurate knowledge of the Muggle world. And with a fanatic like Voldermort calling the shots, they won't get it. He'll put an idiot like Draco in charge of torturing info out of the Weasley's.

Voldemort was raised as a muggle, and despite his disdain for them I don't see why anyone assumes he wouldn't try and get accurate information on his new enemies. Really folks: Riddle's a smart guy who got caught on the hook of a self fulfilling prophecy.

[The Glyphstone]

So, I guess it comes down to the same thing again.

How smart are the wizards? If they are as silly as portrayed in the books, they lose, and hard. If they are smart, tech-savvy and actually study our society, they create a bloodbath.

That's what a lot of people appear to be forgetting, as tends to happen in Versus matches. If we don't take into account the combatants' temperaments, attitudes, and personalities, then we're not actually considering a versus match between then, we're using two faceless drones who happen to have those combatant's power sets. Wizards, particularly if they had the collective creativity and intellect of the Playground, would run rampant and win near-effortlessly. The Death Eaters and Voldemort, as portrayed in their own canon, would have a much more difficult time.

[ChaosLord29]

That's what a lot of people appear to be forgetting, as tends to happen in Versus matches. If we don't take into account the combatants' temperaments, attitudes, and personalities, then we're not actually considering a versus match between then, we're using two faceless drones who happen to have those combatant's power sets. Wizards, particularly if they had the collective creativity and intellect of the Playground, would run rampant and win near-effortlessly. The Death Eaters and Voldemort, as portrayed in their own canon, would have a much more difficult time.

Well said.

[pendell]

If this becomes an all out war the wizards have already lost. That is until someone invents a bullet repelling charm.

But wars aren't really fought that way when you have the toolset wizards do. And I still don't see how the muggle world will be anywhere near prepared for the full scale removal of their support grid and corruption of power that wizards are capable of.

My understanding is that shell fragments hurt a lot more people than bullets do. They would need something more like a minor globe of invulnerability, or perhaps a Dune-style personal shield.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Chess435]

Wizards, particularly if they had the collective creativity and intellect of the Playground, would run rampant and win near-effortlessly.

You might be on to something there. Okay guys, if any of you ever discover magic, teach it to all of us so we can take over the world.