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2013-08-14, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)Dwarf in the Playground
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
I was looking for a class that 1) wasn't Monk and 2)made things stop living with it's fist as their primary ability. I found some Brawler homebrews and wasn't really satisfied, so I wrote up my own.
Some guiding principles: Monks hit things hard and often and have Stunning Fist and feats that tree off of Stunning Fist to set them apart. I didn't want to just replicate that. I also wanted to give them a little bit of a gladiatorial feel, i.e. they don't just fight, they put on a show.
What I came up with is more a fighter variant. So, let me know if I made something broken?
Where I started:[SpoilerB]Class Name[/B]: The Brawler
Hit Die: d12
Weapons and Armor: Simple Weapons Proficiency, Light Armor
Skill points/Class Skills: 4/Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge, Listen, Perform, Profession, Swim, Tumble
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Unarmed Critical
1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Bonus Feat, Improved Unarmed Combat|20/x2
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Bonus Feat|20/x2
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Superior Unarmed Strike|20/x2
4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Bonus Feat|20/x2
5th|+5|+4|+4|+1||19-20/x2
6th|+6/1|+5|+5|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2
7th|+7/2|+5|+5|+2|The Roar of the Crowd|19-20/x2
8th|+8/3|+6|+6|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2
9th|+9/4|+6|+6|+3||19-20/x3
10th|+10/5|+7|+7|+3|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3
11th|+11/6/1|+7|+7|+3|Stick And Move|19-20/x3
12th|+12/7/2|+8|+8|+4|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3
13th|+13/8/3|+8|+8|+8||18-20/x3
14th|+14/9/4|+9|+9|+4|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3
15th|+15/10/5|+9|+9|+5|Fast Movement|18-20/x3
16th|+16/11/6/1|+10|+10|+5|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3
17th|+17/12/7/2|+10|+10|+5||18-20/x4
18th|+18/13/8/3|+11|+11|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4
19th|+19/14/9/4|+11|+11|+6|Shoulder to Shoulder|18-20/x4
20th|+20/15/10/5|+12|+12|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4[/table]
Bonus Feat: The Brawler gains a number of bonus feats, similar to Fighters. They must meet all prerequisites. The list they may choose from is as follows: Acrobatic Strike (PH2), Blind Fight (PHB), Close Quarters Fighting (CW), Combat Acrobat (PH2), Combat Expertise (PHB), Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Riposte (DC), Combat Reflexes, Clever Opportunist, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Circle Kick (SF), Defensive Throw (CW), Deflect Arrows (PHB), Snatch Arrows, Feign Weakness (SF), Hammer Fist (DC), Improved Critical (PHB), Improved Initiative (PHB), Improved Grapple (PH), Intimidating Strike (PH2), Power Attack (PH), Flying Kick (CW), Roundabout Kick (CW), Snap Kick (ToB), Weapon Finesse (PHB), Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Greater Weapon Focus, Power Critical, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, Two Weapon Fighting (PHB), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Versitile Unarmed Strike (PH2)
Improved Unarmed Fighting: Brawlers get this feat for free at 1st Level.
Unarmed Critical: As the Brawler progresses, he learns how to make his strikes more effective. As a result, the threat range and critical multiplier for his strikes grows as he progresses.
This bonus only applies to unarmed strikes. It does not apply to gauntlets or similar weapons.
Superior Unarmed Strike: At 3rd Level, the Brawler gains Superior Unarmed Strike feat.
The Roar of the Crowd: At 7th level, if the Brawler is fighting and is being observed by at least one ally, even if it's an ally combatant, the Brawler recieves a morale bonus equal to his Unarmed Strike damage multipler to hit with unarmed strikes.
Stick and Move: At 11th level, If the Brawler makes a successful unarmed melee attack this round, he may take one 5 foot step in addition to his move action or free 5 foot step.
Fast Movement: A Brawler’s land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. (This is identical to the Barbarian special ability of the same name.)
Shoulder to Shoulder: At 19th level, the Brawler's allies receive a +4 morale bonus to melee combat after the first round of combat.
Revision 1:SpoilerClass Name: The Brawler
Hit Die: d12
Weapons and Armor: Simple Weapons Proficiency, Light Armor
Skill points/Class Skills: 4/Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge, Listen, Perform, Profession, Swim, Tumble
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Unarmed Critical|Unarmed Damage
1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Bonus Feat, Improved Unarmed Combat|20/x2|1d6
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Bonus Feat|20/x2|d6
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Stand Your Ground, Fast Movement|20/x2|d6
4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Bonus Feat|20/x2|d8
5th|+5|+4|+4|+1||19-20/x2|d8
6th|+6/1|+5|+5|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2|d8
7th|+7/2|+5|+5|+2|Stick and move, Uncanny Dodge|19-20/x2|d8
8th|+8/3|+6|+6|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2|d10
9th|+9/4|+6|+6|+3||19-20/x3|d10
10th|+10/5|+7|+7|+3|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3|d10
11th|+11/6/1|+7|+7|+3|Stick And Move|19-20/x3|d10
12th|+12/7/2|+8|+8|+4|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3|2d6
13th|+13/8/3|+8|+8|+8||18-20/x3|2d6
14th|+14/9/4|+9|+9|+4|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3|2d6
15th|+15/10/5|+9|+9|+5|Evasion|18-20/x3|2d6
16th|+16/11/6/1|+10|+10|+5|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3|2d8
17th|+17/12/7/2|+10|+10|+5||18-20/x4|2d8
18th|+18/13/8/3|+11|+11|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4|2d8
19th|+19/14/9/4|+11|+11|+6|Improved Uncanny Dodge|18-20/x4|2d8
20th|+20/15/10/5|+12|+12|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4|2d10[/table]
Bonus Feat: The Brawler gains a number of bonus feats, similar to Fighters. They must meet all prerequisites. The list they may choose from is as follows: Acrobatic Strike (PH2), Blind Fight (PHB), Close Quarters Fighting (CW), Combat Acrobat (PH2), Combat Expertise (PHB), Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Riposte (DC), Combat Reflexes, Clever Opportunist, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Circle Kick (SF), Defensive Throw (CW), Deflect Arrows (PHB), Snatch Arrows, Feign Weakness (SF), Hammer Fist (DC), Improved Critical (PHB), Improved Initiative (PHB), Improved Grapple (PH), Intimidating Strike (PH2), Power Attack (PH), Flying Kick (CW), Roundabout Kick (CW), Snap Kick (ToB), Superior Unarmed Fighting (they gain the same bonus as monks), Weapon Finesse (PHB), Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Greater Weapon Focus, Power Critical, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, Two Weapon Fighting (PHB), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Versitile Unarmed Strike (PH2)
Improved Unarmed Fighting: Brawlers get this feat for free at 1st Level.
Unarmed Critical: As the Brawler progresses, he learns how to make his strikes more effective. As a result, the threat range and critical multiplier for his strikes grows as he progresses.
This bonus only applies to unarmed strikes. It does not apply to gauntlets or similar weapons.
Stand your ground: At 3rd Level, the Brawler may a class bonus equal to his damage multiplier for unarmed attacks to Strength tests when defending against a Bull Rush and to Dexterity or Strength checks to avoid being Overun or Tripped.
In addition, the Brawler may add the same bonus to his Strength test when attempting to Overrun, Trip or Bull Rush an opponent.
If the Brawler is knocked prone, he may stand up as a swift action.
Fast Movement: At 3rd level, a Brawler’s land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. (This is identical to the Barbarian special ability of the same name.)
Stick and Move: At 7th level, If the Brawler makes a successful unarmed melee attack this round, he may take a single 5 foot step in addition to his move action or free 5 foot step. He may make only one additional 5 foot step this way per round.
This should hopefully be an improvement. Tier wise, I'm content with Brawler getting to 3rd, though I have no problem with him being compared to either monks or fighters for effectiveness, as that's kind of what I was shooting for.[/QUOTE]
Revision 2:
SpoilerClass Name: The Brawler
Hit Die: d12
Weapons and Armor: Simple Weapons Proficiency, Light Armor
Skill points/Class Skills: 4/Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge, Listen, Perform, Profession, Swim, Tumble
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Unarmed Critical|Unarmed Damage|Natural AC bonus
1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Bonus Feat, Improved Unarmed Combat|20/x2|d6|+1
2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0|Bonus Feat|20/x2|d6|+1
3rd|+1|+3|+3|+1|Stand Your Ground, Fast Movement|20/x2|d6|+1
4th|+2|+4|+4|+1|Bonus Feat|20/x2|d8|+1
5th|+2|+4|+4|+1||19-20/x2|d8|+2
6th|+6/1|+5|+5|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2|d8|+2
7th|+7/2|+5|+5|+2|Stick and Move, Uncanny Dodge|19-20/x2|d8|+2
8th|+8/3|+6|+6|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2|d10|+2
9th|+9/4|+6|+6|+3||19-20/x3|d10|+3
10th|+10/5|+7|+7|+3|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3|d10|+3
11th|+11/6/1|+7|+7|+3|Improved Uncanny Dodge|19-20/x3|d10|+3
12th|+12/7/2|+8|+8|+4|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3|2d6|+3
13th|+13/8/3|+8|+8|+8||18-20/x3|2d6|+4
14th|+14/9/4|+9|+9|+4|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3|2d6|+4
15th|+15/10/5|+9|+9|+5|Evasion|18-20/x3|2d6|+4
16th|+16/11/6/1|+10|+10|+4|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3|2d8|+4
17th|+17/12/7/2|+10|+10|+5||18-20/x4|2d8|+5
18th|+18/13/8/3|+11|+11|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4|2d8|+5
19th|+19/14/9/4|+11|+11|+6||18-20/x4|2d8|+5
20th|+20/15/10/5|+12|+12|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4|2d10|+5[/table]
Bonus Feat: The Brawler gains a number of bonus feats, similar to Fighters. They must meet all prerequisites. The list they may choose from is as follows: Acrobatic Strike (PH2), Blind Fight (PHB), Close Quarters Fighting (CW), Combat Acrobat (PH2), Combat Expertise (PHB), Improved Disarm, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Feint, Improved Overrun, Improved Trip, Riposte (DC), Combat Reflexes, Clever Opportunist, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Circle Kick (SF), Defensive Throw (CW), Deflect Arrows (PHB), Snatch Arrows, Feign Weakness (SF), Hammer Fist (DC), Improved Critical (PHB), Improved Initiative (PHB), Improved Grapple (PH), Intimidating Strike (PH2), Knockout Punch (New), Power Attack (PH), Flying Kick (CW), Roar of the Crowd (New), Shoulder to Shoulder to Shoulder (New)Roundabout Kick (CW), Snap Kick (ToB), Superior Unarmed Fighting (they gain the same bonus as monks), Weapon Finesse (PHB), Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Greater Unarmed Focus (New), Power Critical, Unarmed Specialization (New), Greater Unarmed Specialization (New), Two Weapon Fighting (PHB), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Versitile Unarmed Strike (PH2)
Improved Unarmed Fighting: Brawlers get this feat for free at 1st Level.
In addition, the Brawler's base damage for unarmed strikes is increased. To gain this bonus, the Brawler must be no more encumbered than with a light load and wearing nothing heavier than light armor. If he is using gauntlets or similar enhancements to unarmed attacks, his base damage is the same, but he does gain a +1 bonus to his damage rolls.
Unarmed Critical: As the Brawler progresses, he learns how to make his strikes more effective. As a result, the threat range and critical multiplier for his strikes grows as he progresses.
This bonus only applies to unarmed strikes, not other weapons. If the Brawler is encumbered or armored such that he loses his additional damage to unarmed combat, he does not lose this ability.
Natural Armor Class Bonus: At 1st level, the Brawler gains a natural armor class bonus.
Stand your ground: At 3rd Level, the Brawler may add a class bonus equal to his damage multiplier for unarmed attacks to Strength tests when defending against a Bull Rush or a Grapple attack, as well as to Dexterity or Strength checks to avoid being Overun or Tripped.
In addition, the Brawler may add the same bonus to his Strength test when attempting to Grapple, Overrun, Trip or Bull Rush an opponent.
If the Brawler is knocked prone, he may stand up as an immediate action.
Fast Movement: At 3rd level, a Brawler’s land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. (This is identical to the Barbarian special ability of the same name.)
Stick and Move: At 7thh level, If the Brawler makes a successful unarmed melee attack this round, he may take a single 5 foot step in addition to his move action or free 5 foot step. He may make only one additional 5 foot step this way per round.
Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 11th level, a Brawler can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a Brawler already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.
Improved Uncanny Dodge: A brawler of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.
If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.
Revision 3:
Class Name: The Brawler
Alignment: Any Chaotic
Hit Die: d12
Weapons and Armor: Simple Weapons Proficiency, Light Armor
Skill points/Class Skills: 4/Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge, Listen, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Swim, Tumble
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Unarmed Critical|Unarmed Damage|Natural AC bonus
1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Bonus Feat, Improved Unarmed Combat|20/x2|d6|+1
2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0|Bonus Feat|20/x2|d6|+1
3rd|+1|+3|+3|+1|Stand Your Ground, Fast Movement|20/x2|d6|+1
4th|+2|+4|+4|+1|Bonus Feat|20/x2|d8|+1
5th|+2|+4|+4|+1||19-20/x2|d8|+2
6th|+6/1|+5|+5|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2|d8|+2
7th|+7/2|+5|+5|+2|Stick and Move, Stiff Arm|19-20/x2|d8|+2
8th|+8/3|+6|+6|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2|d10|+2
9th|+9/4|+6|+6|+3||19-20/x3|d10|+3
10th|+10/5|+7|+7|+3|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3|d10|+3
11th|+11/6/1|+7|+7|+3|Vicious Uppercut|19-20/x3|d10|+3
12th|+12/7/2|+8|+8|+4|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3|2d6|+3
13th|+13/8/3|+8|+8|+8|Uncanny Dodge|18-20/x3|2d6|+4
14th|+14/9/4|+9|+9|+4|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3|2d6|+4
15th|+15/10/5|+9|+9|+5|Evasion|18-20/x3|2d6|+4
16th|+16/11/6/1|+10|+10|+4|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3|2d8|+4
17th|+17/12/7/2|+10|+10|+5||18-20/x4|2d8|+5
18th|+18/13/8/3|+11|+11|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4|2d8|+5
19th|+19/14/9/4|+11|+11|+6|Improved Uncanny Dodge|18-20/x4|2d8|+5
20th|+20/15/10/5|+12|+12|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4|2d10|+5[/table]
Bonus Feat: The Brawler gains a number of bonus feats, similar to Fighters. They must meet all prerequisites. The list they may choose from is as follows: Acrobatic Strike (PH2), Blind Fight (PHB), Close Quarters Fighting (CW), Combat Acrobat (PH2), Combat Expertise (PHB), Improved Disarm, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Feint, Improved Overrun, Improved Trip, Riposte (DC), Combat Reflexes, Clever Opportunist, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Circle Kick (SF), Defensive Throw (CW), Deflect Arrows (PHB), Snatch Arrows, Feign Weakness (SF), Hammer Fist (DC), Improved Critical (PHB), Improved Initiative (PHB), Improved Grapple (PH), Intimidating Strike (PH2), Knockout Punch (New), Power Attack (PH), Flying Kick (CW), Roar of the Crowd (New), Shoulder to Shoulder to Shoulder (New)Roundabout Kick (CW), Snap Kick (ToB), Superior Unarmed Fighting (they gain the same bonus as monks), Weapon Finesse (PHB), Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Greater Unarmed Focus (New), Power Critical, Unarmed Specialization (New), Greater Unarmed Specialization (New), Two Weapon Fighting (PHB), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Versitile Unarmed Strike (PH2)
Improved Unarmed Fighting: Brawlers get this feat for free at 1st Level.
In addition, the Brawler's base damage for unarmed strikes is increased. To gain this bonus, the Brawler must be no more encumbered than with a light load and wearing nothing heavier than light armor. If he is using gauntlets or similar enhancements to unarmed attacks, his base damage is the same, but he does gain a +1 bonus to his damage rolls.
Unarmed Critical: As the Brawler progresses, he learns how to make his strikes more effective. As a result, the threat range and critical multiplier for his strikes grows as he progresses.
This bonus only applies to unarmed strikes, not other weapons. If the Brawler is encumbered or armored such that he loses his additional damage to unarmed combat, he does not lose this ability.
Natural Armor Class Bonus: At 1st level, the Brawler gains a natural armor class bonus.
Stand your ground: At 3rd Level, the Brawler may add a class bonus equal to his damage multiplier for unarmed attacks to Strength tests when defending against a Bull Rush or a Grapple attack, as well as to Dexterity or Strength checks to avoid being Overun or Tripped.
In addition, the Brawler may add the same bonus to his Strength test when attempting to Grapple, Overrun, Trip or Bull Rush an opponent.
If the Brawler is knocked prone, he may stand up as an immediate action.
Fast Movement: At 3rd level, a Brawler’s land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. (This is identical to the Barbarian special ability of the same name.)
Stick and Move: At 7th level, If the Brawler makes a successful unarmed melee attack this round, he may take a single 5 foot step in addition to his move action or free 5 foot step. He may make only one additional 5 foot step this way per round.
Stiff Arm - At 7th level, the brawler may make a normal unarmed attack (doing normal damage) and, if successful, the target must make a immediate bull rush check or be pushed back by (5 + the Brawler's strength damage bonus) feet. He may do this only to targets who are not charging and not mounted. The brawler must announce he is doing a stiff arm before the unarmed attack roll on his opponent and may only do so once per round; if the attack misses, he must wait until the following round to make another attempt.
Vicious Uppercut - At 11th level, the brawler may make a normal unarmed attack (doing his normal damage) and, if successful, the target must make an immediate overrun check or be lifted up off of his feet and knocked prone. He may do this only to targets who are not charging and not mounted. The brawler must announce he is doing a stiff arm before the unarmed attack roll on his opponent and may only do so once per round; if the attack misses, he must wait until the following round to make another attempt.
Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 13th level, a Brawler can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a Brawler already has uncanny dodge from a different class he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.
Evasion (Ex): At 15th level and higher, a Brawler can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Brawler is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Brawler does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Improved Uncanny Dodge: A brawler of 19th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.
If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.
New Feats:
Unarmed Specialization:
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Improved Unarmed Combat
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using unarmed attacks.
Greater Unarmed Focus:
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Improved Unarmed Combat, 4 levels from any of the following: fighter, monk or brawler
Benefit: You gain a +1 to hit using an unarmed attack. This bonus stacks wtih Weapon Focus (Unarmed).
Greater Unarmed Specialization:
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Improved Unarmed Combat, 8 levels from any of the following: fighter, monk or brawler.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using unarmed attacks. This bonus stacks with Unarmed Specialization.
Knockout Punch:
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Combat, Str 14 or greater.
Benefit: When making an unarmed attack inflicting non-lethal damage, you treat the attack as if it was a confirmed critical strike.
Roar of the Crowd:
Prerequisites: 4 Ranks of Perform, BAB of +1
Benefit: The way you fight is so crowd pleasing that, if you are being observed by at least one friendly viewer while fighting, you may recieve a +2 moral bonus to rolls to hit.
Shoulder to Shoulder :
Prerequisites: 4 Ranks of Perform, BAB of +3, Roar of the Crowd
Benefit: The way you fight is so inspiring that you and your allies may, after viewing you fight for 1 round, gain a +2 moral bonus to hit. This bonus stacks with your bonus from Roar of the Crowd. If you are interrupted in fighting for more rounds than you have ranks in perform divided by four, then you must fight for another full round for you and your comrades to recieve the bonus.
Thanks for taking a look.Last edited by LordFluffy; 2013-08-21 at 08:38 AM.
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2013-08-14, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
It's by no means broken. You've effectively made a light-armor fighter. It will perform like a fighter, and is less likely to be overshadowed by greatsword-wielders with a better save and a d12 hit die.
If your intended goal was to make this good as the fighter, I commend you. The limited list of bonus feats kind of hurts, and the diptasticness with the fighter (take Brawler 2 for prereq feats like Power Attack, and then Fighter 2 for feats you care about) probably goes alternative to your design goals. I recommend making this a fighter ACF instead.
Things:
- Unarmed critical should scale faster. The first boost should kick at level 2 or 3, and then go up every 3 levels thereafter.
- No unarmed strike damage progression? It doesn't really matter to me, but that feels like something very iconic to punchmasters.
- I know you said you wanted something gladiatorial, but The Roar of the Crowd doesn't replicate that, and it's the only gladiatorial class feature in the whole class (AND it doesn't come till level 7, when most people are taking PrCs). I recommend making this sort of thing a feat, and then letting players take the Roar of the Crowd [Fighter] feat if they want to be gladiators. You could get a whole feat chain that way. It also seems really easy to get the boost, perhaps you should make the requirement something a little harder than people watching you.
- Stick and Move should have an outright cap of 1 extra step per round. I know you implied it, but being clear is good.
- Fast Movement comes way too late. There are items that give you fly speed at 15th level, so +10' land speed means little
- He could probably do fine with another high save, but I'm not sure.
- The original fighter had ride on his skill list. I don't know if you want to encourage monks riding on bears and punching people, but I think it would be awesome.
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2013-08-14, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)Dwarf in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Thanks for the comments.
The third level auto-feat, Superior Unarmed Fighting, provides that. It boosts it to 1d4 initially, but goes up to 2d6.No unarmed strike damage progression? It doesn't really matter to me, but that feels like something very iconic to punchmasters.
That's the intent. I'll see about wording it better.Stick and Move should have an outright cap of 1 extra step per round. I know you implied it, but being clear is good.
Fair point.Fast Movement comes way too late. There are items that give you fly speed at 15th level, so +10' land speed means little
I apologize, but I'm unfamiliar with the acronym. What's an ACF?I recommend making this a fighter ACF instead.
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2013-08-14, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Alternate Class Feature.
An ACF starts with a list of things the class in question doesn't get, and then has a list of things the class does get. So your list would go something like "Loses martial weapon proficiency, shield proficiency, medium and heavy armor proficiency, and ride as a class skill. Gains d12 hit die, good reflex save, 2 extra skill points, and [class features] at [levels]."
The Divine Mind's ACFs here are a good example. There is Ectopic Mind, Stygian Ally, and Hidden Talent. They all replace something and grant something.
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2013-08-14, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Roar of the Crowd and Shoulder to Shoulder do not stack, assuming the first is for melee attacks(not specified). Fast movement comes in way too late. Also the first is better than the second by the time you get the second. When a late class feature is strictly worse than an earlier one it needs to be changed.
Originally Posted by LordFluffy
All in all you basically made a guy with a really good base weapon plus some bonus feats and a couple of minor movement abilities(extra 5 foot step is good though). I really don't see this taking any special role against the two-handed melee characters.Last edited by Amnoriath; 2013-08-14 at 05:18 PM.
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2013-08-14, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Some of the issues I noticed;
1) The problem with getting Superior Unarmed Strike at 3rd level is that the class can't effectively fight unarmed until then, which is problematic for a class that is supposed to be for unarmed fighters. I'd scrap the auto-feat and just give the class a separate unarmed strike progression similar to that of the Monk.
2) There are dead levels at 5, 9, 13, and 17. You should give the class some additional abilities to fill in those levels, preferably ones that give it something to do when punching isn't the solution to the issue at hand. Also, you should probably consider creating some sort of capstone for the class at level 20.
3) As already mentioned, Fast Movement comes far too late for what it gives you; it should either be moved to a much earlier level or made more powerful.
Overall, I'd peg this class at somewhere between very low Tier-5 and high Tier-6; most of what it does can be done better by a Fighter or Monk. The class has no real ability to counter issues such as flying opponents, it's damage is likely fairly anemic as by RAW Power Attack does not work with unarmed strikes and it lacks any bonus damage, and it has nothing really to offer outside of combat.If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.
When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.
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2013-08-14, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Actually that isn't true. They are treated as one-handed weapons. Originally Posted by Alabenson
http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-han...-attack--2208/
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2013-08-15, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)Dwarf in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Why? They're still doing lethal damage with their hands. Even getting SUS at 3rd, they go from d3 to d4, then d6 at 5th level.1) The problem with getting Superior Unarmed Strike at 3rd level is that the class can't effectively fight unarmed until then...
Not so much. Those are the levels where they go up on their threat range or critical multiplier, which is why I added no extra abilities at those levels.There are dead levels at 5, 9, 13, and 17.
Thanks again for all the input. I'll be revising and updating soon. I'm thinking I'll add Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, in place of Roar of the Crowd and Shoulder to Shoulder.
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2013-08-15, 02:14 AM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Because at level 1, they could just wield a short sword with no real detriment. Until damage is 1d6, you're effectively encouraging the unarmed fighter to not fight unarmed. That's why (I assume) monk unarmed damage starts at 1d6.
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2013-08-15, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Those abilities aren't going to make this class more functional. They are just going to make it a little more durable. You need to be able to do something better than the other members of a party. While unarmed strikes can have their damage die pumped up quite easily it really is no match to the bonus damage gained from Ubercharging. So, you need to have another role other than, "I'm gonna punch ya!". This guy is suppose to be a burly, close-quarters specialist allow him to treat himself as one size larger in things such as trip, grapple,..etc a couple of times over his career. Also allow him to spring up from or counter those maneuvers. Originally Posted by LordFluffy
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2013-08-15, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Huh, I stand corrected. Originally Posted by Amnoriath
Dealing 1d3+Str damage on an attack really is a joke, even at level 1. It's not enough to simply deal lethal damage, you need to be doing enough lethal damage to actually matter, which your class a written simply can't do. With the way you have it written right now, a Brawler would have to wait 5 levels to be less effective than a Warrior wielding a longsword. Originally Posted by LordFluffy
Overall, I think your main issue is that you seem to be making the same mistake WotC made during most of 3.5's run; your using Fighter and Monk as your point of reference for how powerful melee should be. The problem with doing this is that Fighter and Monk are very weak classes, except as dips.
I'd recommend reading this explanation of the Tier system for 3.5 if you haven't already.Last edited by Alabenson; 2013-08-15 at 10:14 AM.
If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.
When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.
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2013-08-15, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)Dwarf in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Take 2 -
Class Name: The Brawler
Hit Die: d12
Weapons and Armor: Simple Weapons Proficiency, Light Armor
Skill points/Class Skills: 4/Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge, Listen, Perform, Profession, Swim, Tumble
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Unarmed Critical|Unarmed Damage
1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Bonus Feat, Improved Unarmed Combat|20/x2|1d6
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Bonus Feat|20/x2|d6
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Stand Your Ground, Fast Movement|20/x2|d6
4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Bonus Feat|20/x2|d8
5th|+5|+4|+4|+1||19-20/x2|d8
6th|+6/1|+5|+5|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2|d8
7th|+7/2|+5|+5|+2|Stick and move, Uncanny Dodge|19-20/x2|d8
8th|+8/3|+6|+6|+2|Bonus Feat|19-20/x2|d10
9th|+9/4|+6|+6|+3||19-20/x3|d10
10th|+10/5|+7|+7|+3|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3|d10
11th|+11/6/1|+7|+7|+3|Stick And Move|19-20/x3|d10
12th|+12/7/2|+8|+8|+4|Bonus Feat|19-20/x3|2d6
13th|+13/8/3|+8|+8|+8||18-20/x3|2d6
14th|+14/9/4|+9|+9|+4|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3|2d6
15th|+15/10/5|+9|+9|+5|Evasion|18-20/x3|2d6
16th|+16/11/6/1|+10|+10|+5|Bonus Feat|18-20/x3|2d8
17th|+17/12/7/2|+10|+10|+5||18-20/x4|2d8
18th|+18/13/8/3|+11|+11|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4|2d8
19th|+19/14/9/4|+11|+11|+6|Improved Uncanny Dodge|18-20/x4|2d8
20th|+20/15/10/5|+12|+12|+6|Bonus Feat|18-20/x4|2d10[/table]
Bonus Feat: The Brawler gains a number of bonus feats, similar to Fighters. They must meet all prerequisites. The list they may choose from is as follows: Acrobatic Strike (PH2), Blind Fight (PHB), Close Quarters Fighting (CW), Combat Acrobat (PH2), Combat Expertise (PHB), Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Riposte (DC), Combat Reflexes, Clever Opportunist, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Circle Kick (SF), Defensive Throw (CW), Deflect Arrows (PHB), Snatch Arrows, Feign Weakness (SF), Hammer Fist (DC), Improved Critical (PHB), Improved Initiative (PHB), Improved Grapple (PH), Intimidating Strike (PH2), Power Attack (PH), Flying Kick (CW), Roundabout Kick (CW), Snap Kick (ToB), Superior Unarmed Fighting (they gain the same bonus as monks), Weapon Finesse (PHB), Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Greater Weapon Focus, Power Critical, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, Two Weapon Fighting (PHB), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Versitile Unarmed Strike (PH2)
Improved Unarmed Fighting: Brawlers get this feat for free at 1st Level.
Unarmed Critical: As the Brawler progresses, he learns how to make his strikes more effective. As a result, the threat range and critical multiplier for his strikes grows as he progresses.
This bonus only applies to unarmed strikes. It does not apply to gauntlets or similar weapons.
Stand your ground: At 3rd Level, the Brawler may a class bonus equal to his damage multiplier for unarmed attacks to Strength tests when defending against a Bull Rush and to Dexterity or Strength checks to avoid being Overun or Tripped.
In addition, the Brawler may add the same bonus to his Strength test when attempting to Overrun, Trip or Bull Rush an opponent.
If the Brawler is knocked prone, he may stand up as a swift action.
Fast Movement: At 3rd level, a Brawler’s land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. (This is identical to the Barbarian special ability of the same name.)
Stick and Move: At 7th level, If the Brawler makes a successful unarmed melee attack this round, he may take a single 5 foot step in addition to his move action or free 5 foot step. He may make only one additional 5 foot step this way per round.
This should hopefully be an improvement. Tier wise, I'm content with Brawler getting to 3rd, though I have no problem with him being compared to either monks or fighters for effectiveness, as that's kind of what I was shooting for.
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2013-08-15, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Post revisions in the original post (spoiler the old one or something), it'll make reading them easier.
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2013-08-15, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
The unarmed strike progression is a welcome change, unfortunately the class still has a few issues, especially if you want it to function at beyond Tier 5-6;
1) Regarding the feat list;
a) You may wish to consider adding Improved Bull Rush and Improved Overrun, since Stand Your Ground improves both of those maneuvers.
b) As written, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization are listed as bonus feats, but the Brawler cannot take them without multiclassing into Fighter in order to meet the prerequisites. You may want to add a line stating that the Brawler treats his Brawler levels as Fighter levels for the purpose of feat prerequisites.
2) As written, the class looks like it has some moderate issues with MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependency); It needs Str in order to function in combat, Dex to pump its AC since it has to enter Melee in order to contribute, and for similar reasons it can't afford to dump Con even with a d12 HD. That means in all likelihood a player would have to dump their mental stats in order to function, which greatly restricts whatever meager uses the class has outside of combat.
3) Like Monks, the Brawler has no way of benefitting from enchanted weaponry due to fighting unarmed. This is compounded by the fact that the Unarmed Strike critical progression explicitly does not stack with gauntlets. I'd seriously consider dropping that restriction, which would greatly boost the classes viability.
4) The biggest issue the class has is that it has no way of contributing in any situation that can't be solved by punching something. It has no non-combat class features, and it lacks both the skills per level and the class skill list for that to be a viable focus.If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.
When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.
My Homebrew
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2013-08-15, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
It's meant to be fighter-like, so I think the lack of flexibility is OK.
I would probably make a finesse build with this class. Weapon Finesse with my fists and dip swordsage to get Shadow Blade.Last edited by Just to Browse; 2013-08-15 at 07:28 PM.
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2013-08-15, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
You need to clear up the language of Stand your Ground(grammar issues). There is a reason why I said treat yourself as a size larger. As of now he only can use combat maneuvers against a large creature without a spell or level adjustment. Plus why doesn't this apply to grapple? He is an in your face kind of guy. Also you do realize that a swift action can only be used on your turn, right?
While the extra five foot step can be an action changer you still will have less threat area than your typical two-handed fighter. He also quite simply isn't incentivised to have a high intelligence but combat expertise is a standard feat tax for improved trip and like. I think this guy needs to learn some combo moves in conjuction with combat maneuver checks to sub-due or mess with an opponent. Also natural armor would make a lot of sense as well.
Even if you do make these changes it is likely he will be a comfortable to high tier 4. Tier 3 and above generally requires the recognition of some form of magic or power. A classic tier 3 class is a Swordsage as it has a varied array of disciplines as well as a good skill-monkey frame to be a selective mix of an assasin, controller, skirmisher, and high-damage striker. Also another characteristic of Tier 3's vs. higher tiers is that their powers are either at will or can be recharged within battle. While this is merely a PrC fix I did and technically not rated in a tier it has characteristics of what I am talking about if you want a true tier 3 class.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291173Last edited by Amnoriath; 2013-08-15 at 10:52 PM.
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2013-08-15, 10:28 PM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
I agree with most what you said, but I always found the whole no gauntlet enchantment for unarmed strikes to be non-sequitir. Honestly, just let the Brawler or monk who knows simple weapons have their magic gauntlets for magic fists. Originally Posted by Alabenson
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2013-08-15, 11:31 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
That's more or less exactly what I was suggesting. It fits with the theme of an unarmed fighter and solves one of the major issues with that particular fighting style. Originally Posted by Amnoriath
If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.
When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.
My Homebrew
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2013-08-16, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)Dwarf in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Np. Originally Posted by Just to Browse
Thanks. I'd actually intended to do that, just forgot.a) You may wish to consider adding Improved Bull Rush and Improved Overrun, since Stand Your Ground improves both of those maneuvers.
I thought I remembered some form of gloves from the magic item compendium that give magic bonuses to unarmed damage, but I could be mistaken. I've reworded it to include all unarmed attacks, including those made with gauntlets.3) Like Monks, the Brawler has no way of benefitting from enchanted weaponry due to fighting unarmed. This is compounded by the fact that the Unarmed Strike critical progression explicitly does not stack with gauntlets. I'd seriously consider dropping that restriction, which would greatly boost the classes viability.
Again, that's kind of the point.4) The biggest issue the class has is that it has no way of contributing in any situation that can't be solved by punching something
I get where you're coming from, but I think as much of that can be solved by magic items, multiclassing or role playing rather than trying to inject a swiss-army knife aspect into the character class where it doesn't really fit.
I get you. I'm just not sure that being a good boxer automatically means you can choke out a Dragon.There is a reason why I said treat yourself as a size large
Point. I'll rewrite it as an Immediate action (which accomplishs what I was going for).Also you do realize that a swift action can only be used on your turn, right?
Agreed. Again, I'm trying not to simply re-create the monk class, but I think that feature would work.Also natural armor would make a lot of sense as well.Last edited by LordFluffy; 2013-08-16 at 11:50 AM.
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2013-08-16, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
1. It gives a kama which can use unarmed strike damage. Savage Species gives you necklace of natural attacks and there is a Faerun bracers of striking. In general though the idea is so that you can keep as many item slots open for other boosts which is why the Kama or common houserule gauntlet is used. Originally Posted by LordFluffy
2. A two-handed Barbarian will kill that same dragon in less then a full-attack if it gets a charge. Once you get around level 9 you have broken past many a fantasy movie genre level of power into anime level. If he stacks his abilities right he ought to get the chance. Also a Brawler isn't a Boxer, a Brawler is someone who will use any means necessary to dispatch an opponent at close range.Last edited by Amnoriath; 2013-08-16 at 12:47 PM.
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2013-08-16, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
In core it won;t bear in mind the OP could be doing what i did for my first few homebrews, (and still prefer to do), core only. Core doesn't give you pounce access normally so that barbarian is limited in just how much damage he can do on the charge.A two-handed Barbarian will kill that same dragon in less then a full-attack if it gets a charge.
That said you do have a point vis a vis brawler not really just covering basic fist fighting, when i think brawler i think of: His Grace the Duke of Ankh, Commander of the City Watch, Blackboard Monitor, Sir Samuel Vimes.
Who's fighting moto is: Anywhere's a target, anything's a weapon.
That said what te OP is going for is a perfectly valid archetype. Though it might work better as a PrC IMO, i'm finding them a lot more flexible like that.
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2013-08-16, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Yes, but he was talking about the Magic Item Compendium which isn't core. Also many of those feats you are allowed to pick aren't core either. I believe I am validated in assuming this isn't a core campaign. Originally Posted by Carl
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2013-08-16, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Opps, i missed that, no idea how
.
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2013-08-16, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)Dwarf in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
As much as I appreciate your insights, I kind of think I have a better idea of what I'm defining as "brawler" than you might. I'm using "brawler" as a distinction from "martial artist". If I were going for your vision of what I'm building here, I'd include more things like Improvised Weapon feats and the like.Also a Brawler isn't a Boxer, a Brawler is someone who will use any means necessary to dispatch an opponent at close range.
To put it another way, the 3.5 Monk comes across like Marvel's Iron Fist. I want to build Luke Cage. You're thinking I'm going for a cross between Riddick and Jackie Chan.
At least that's how I see it.
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2013-08-16, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
As it stands right now, I'd peg the Brawler at about Tier-5; it's capable of doing one thing, punching things, and its decent at it. Unfortunately, its still outclassed by the Warblade, Unarmed Swordsage, and possibly Barbarian at its chosen role, and outside that role the Brawler has literally no utility whatsoever.
Judging by some of your posts, I think part of the problem is that you designed the class with an overly narrow concept in mind. My advice would be to step back and take another look at what you want the Brawler to be and try to think how it would fit into a group both inside and outside of combat.
Here are a few suggestions I have about expanding the Brawler's options;
1) One aspect of the Brawler that I like is Stand Your Ground; I think improving the Brawler's ability to use special combat maneuvers (trip, disarm, bull rush, etc.) is a good concept that sets it apart from other classes. That said, the bonus is fairly weak, starting out at +2 and capping out at a meager +4 at level 17. My advice would be to adjust the bonus to scale a bit better with level. While the Brawler might not be choking out dragons at 3rd level, by level 17 that shouldn't be out of the question (think the third act of Beowulf, for example)
2) Another thing I'd consider is adding a few teamwork centered buffing abilities to the Brawler, which is a concept it looked like you were playing with in your first iteration and I think could be interesting if you take it far enough.
3) Finally, I'd consider taking another look at the Brawler's skill list and see if there's anything worth adding. At minimum, I'd suggest adding Sense Motive (to see through other fighter's feints) and Spot (since you already have Listen) as class skills. Also, you may want to consider giving the Brawler some skill-based class features to help it function outside of combat.If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.
When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.
My Homebrew
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2013-08-16, 11:45 PM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
How isn't someone who can grap anything and submit an opponent while punching their face in not distinct from a disciplined martial artist? Originally Posted by LordFluffy
I have no idea how what I suggested comes even close to weapons master or a martial stylist. The problem here is you are expecting one kind of fighting style to extend itself from an amateur street fight all the way to world ending battles with planar demi-gods. The truth is you need an affect advantage over two-handed fighters. Allow me to demonstrate what I mean.
ECL 13 Goliath Fighter 2/Barbarian 10
ACF's: Spirit Lion Totem, Mountain Rage
Flaw: Pathetic(Charisma)
Feats: Battle Jump, Stand Still, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Knockback, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Exotic Weapons Profiencency(Spiked Chain)
Skill Tricks: Extreme Leap, Leaping Climber
Stats(28 point buy)
Str. 22(base, +6)26(+4 gauntlet of Ogre Strength, +8)32(raging, +11)
Dex. 8(-1)
Con. 18(+4), 22 raging(+6)
Int 10(+0)
Wis 12(+1)
Cha 8(-2 Pathetic)
Items: +1 Valorous Collision Spiked Chain, Novice Devoted Spirit Amulet(Thicket of Blades), Gauntlets of Ogre Strength(+4) cost: 51,000 gp(plenty of room for more items)
This build is designed to jump on to foes in order to use Battle Jump which helps avoid the normal banes of charging. This feat allows the user to initiate a charge just by falling 10 ft above an opponent as well as gain x2 damage. Also the chain throws in another multiplier on a charge by being valorous. Now to calculate damage.
3(2d6+22+(24x3))
3(2d6+22+72))
3(96-108)
288-324 damage per hit
However this guy also has more things he can do. That shell of enemy can now be flung at another enemy to trip them at range. Also an enemy that comes within 20 ft of him gets stopped in their tracks by Stand Still.Last edited by Amnoriath; 2013-08-17 at 12:18 AM.
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2013-08-17, 01:17 AM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
That looks off since i see no strength modifier in there, (i'm assuming the 24 is bonus damage from Power attacking), unless the +22 is it, which doesn't make sense. Strength modifier for a 2-hander is 1.5x not 2x. Of course i'm not familiar with half what you mentioned there so maybe i missed something.3(2d6+22+(24x3))
3(2d6+22+72))
3(96-108)
288-324 damage per hit
Also incidentally half that stuff is way beyond cheese level IMO.
@OP: You'll not that i acknowledged that your definition of brawler might differ from others. So that's not really the issue here. he problem is that this class has lackluster damage and nothing besides damage dealing to the table. Like i said for a prestige class with some work on the damage that's not too bad, albeit suboptimal. But for a base class it's a real issue in terms of what makes people want to play it, there's nothing here that's overly valuable, and that can't be acquired equal or better elsewhere.
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2013-08-17, 04:07 AM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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- Nov 2011
Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
You took full power attack feats for maximizing damage, the #1 and #3 best barbarian acf's, and minmaxed your flaw and attribute selection to dump stats. You are also using ten levels of barbarian at ECL 13, so calling that average or even above-average damage is disingenuous. That is astounding damage, and the only reason it's so high is because you picked the best damage-based feat chain in the game (which this class can do as well). On top of that you're glass-cannoning with an AC of "please hit me with your worst iterative attack".
So yes, expect skewed damage numbers on 3 consecutive attacks. That is a thing that happens.
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2013-08-17, 06:29 AM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
22 is +16 str. damage, +1 magic, and +5 from collision Originally Posted by Carl
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2013-08-17, 08:14 AM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: 3.5 Base Class: The Brawler (PEACH), another take on bare-knuckle beatsticks
Actually the best damage dealing type of character without a lot of spell tricks are mounted chargers(Lance, Spirited Charge). I only took the main three, one that greatly increases frequency of charging, and a cheap weapon enchantment. The others are to demonstrate the space gap and control this base class would need to keep. Also this guy has more than 50,000 gp to work with to fill out AC. Originally Posted by Just to Browse
This character is a combined demonstration of the extremes and avenues single two-handed characters have over other melee types including this one without using any Tier 3 or above classes.Last edited by Amnoriath; 2013-08-17 at 08:15 AM.
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