Modern Army v. D&D

[Gavinfoxx]

Sonar like things is described in D&D physics, though...

Explicitly!

It's Blindsight or Blindsense, depending on the creature which has it...

[candycorn]

Sonar like things is described in D&D physics, though...

Explicitly!

It's Blindsight or Blindsense, depending on the creature which has it...

But they're not referenced as "sonar". We could translate it to a D&D mechanic, but it's not listed as that mechanic. So it's not that. Blindsight is not sonar for one simple reason. The rules don't say so. All the common sense arguments won't change that.

That said, D&D wins, just from disease introduction. Modern is much more vulnerable to new disease.

For example: A military vessel's sonar is powerful enough to rupture eardrums at a quarter mile. Is that "just blindsense"? No, it functions differently.

[Little Brother]

Actually, I don't believe darkstalker references infrared or sonar. Therefore, darkstalker wouldn't protect vs them.

Sonar functions in the same manner as blindsight, and therefore, when put into D&D rules, would be put in as blindsight, so yeah, it would. Or rather, the machine would have to roll spot, which it can't.

How do you think a modern army would deal with a swarm of battletitans? They have enough HP to eat a lot of fire, especially with their NA(And with, say, a ranger buffing them). Bubs builds would probably do some serious damage.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Enchantment, illusion, divination plus teleportation give a single high level wizard godlike power to manipulate the world. Earth would lose without knowing their was a fight.

is what gas masks are for. Other spells are, yes, more dangerous.

Might not work work gas masks require different filters depending on what the gas is

[Hecuba]

Regarding whether or not it's on the table with partial casters, the answer would seem to be yes. Swift Etherealness is still available (though it will require Extra Spell or something similar), and it is a valid target for Persist Spell.

This means that, with a dip to manage DMM persist and 2 feats, a (non-undead) caster capable of 5s and 6s are safe from anything that the modern Army can throw at them. At that point, it's just a question of time management.

[Amoren]

That said, D&D wins, just from disease introduction. Modern is much more vulnerable to new disease.

Well, travel to and fro the portal would likely involve heavy quarantine procedures to prepare for this (would also help somewhat to guard against infiltrating wizards). On the flip side, DnD world has no real capacity to prevent a plague of bugs used to being saturated in poisons trying to kill it for decades, and no magical healing will be able to keep pace with a pandemic of our super bugs running rampant. Which also means all those new bugs coming from the DnD world have never been exposed to antivirals or artifical antibodies, and many of them will probably be laughably cured by modern medical technology (especially since a lot of them are probably just historical illnesses of the rough period DnD is set in).

Even if diseases would spread much, much faster in our modern world.

[candycorn]

Sonar functions in the same manner as blindsight, and therefore, when put into D&D rules, would be put in as blindsight, so yeah, it would. Or rather, the machine would have to roll spot, which it can't.

How do you think a modern army would deal with a swarm of battletitans? They have enough HP to eat a lot of fire, especially with their NA(And with, say, a ranger buffing them). Bubs builds would probably do some serious damage.

Touchsight functions in the same manner as blindsight.

Except that it's not blindsight. And if it is not specifically "Blindsight", then what else it "is" doesn't matter one bit.

Sonar functions in the same manner as blindsight.

Except that it's not blindsight. And if it is not specifically "Blindsight", then what else it "is" doesn't matter one bit.

Blindsight is a keyword in D&D. So something that stops blindsight doesn't stop touchsight, or mindsight, or anything else that's really similar but not named blindsight.

Tank shells can blow apart 5 feet of solid stone. Calculate the HP of that, and tell me very many things in D&D can stand up to it.

We have weapons capable of blowing up concrete reinforced bunkers with, once converted to D&D HP, have thousands of HP. So calling HP a credible defense vs heavy weapons is like calling those oriental paper walls a credible defense against gunfire.

[candycorn]

Well, travel to and fro the portal would likely involve heavy quarantine procedures to prepare for this (would also help somewhat to guard against infiltrating wizards). On the flip side, DnD world has no real capacity to prevent a plague of bugs used to being saturated in poisons trying to kill it for decades, and no magical healing will be able to keep pace with a pandemic of our super bugs running rampant. Which also means all those new bugs coming from the DnD world have never been exposed to antivirals or artifical antibodies, and many of them will probably be laughably cured by modern medical technology (especially since a lot of them are probably just historical illnesses of the rough period DnD is set in).

Even if diseases would spread much, much faster in our modern world.

Disease curing in D&D: Cast a spell.

Disease curing in real world: billions of dollars and months of research, for an effect which will only be effective for a year or so. And that's if it's bacteria. Against a virus? Much less likely.

As for quarantine provisions? All it takes is one person casting contagion.

Also, antivirals and antibodies are very specifically engineered. They work against precisely one virus, and not even fully against that, given virus mutation rates. Once the protein structure of a virus differs, even slightly, an antibody is no longer effective.

So antibodies would need to be developed vs those bugs, not the other way around.

Believe me, a Cancer Mage would be modern world's worst nightmare.

[Little Brother]

Touchsight functions in the same manner as blindsight.

Except that it's not blindsight. And if it is not specifically "Blindsight", then what else it "is" doesn't matter one bit.

Sonar functions in the same manner as blindsight.

Except that it's not blindsight. And if it is not specifically "Blindsight", then what else it "is" doesn't matter one bit.

Meh. I disagree, but I'll drop it. Touchsight doesn't work like blindsight.

Tank shells can blow apart 5 feet of solid stone. Calculate the HP of that, and tell me very many things in D&D can stand up to it.

908 damage to blow up a 5-foot cube of rock with one attack. Hmmm. Totally mundane HP damage, so ethereals and regens can eat it fine. If the tank rolls badly, though, quite a lot of things can take them, and a lot of these things are summonable/gateable.

We have weapons capable of blowing up concrete reinforced bunkers with, once converted to D&D HP, have thousands of HP. So calling HP a credible defense vs heavy weapons is like calling those oriental paper walls a credible defense against gunfire.

Meh. I was referring to it surviving personal/machine gun fire. Meh, there are better things to bring in. Still, a single battletitan should crump a tank in one full attack with PA.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea, lots of our weapons work best at craaazzzyyyy long ranges. The ability to arbitrarily Gate huge monstrous powerful things in right on top of them is... kinda a big deal.

[Amoren]

Disease curing in D&D: Cast a spell.

Disease curing in real world: billions of dollars and months of research, for an effect which will only be effective for a year or so. And that's if it's bacteria. Against a virus? Much less likely.

Cast a spell to heal one person, requiring a fifth level cleric or druid (not exactly common), and can only be cast a limited number of times per day. Not even a team of such clerics could likely stop such an epidemic in a single city, yet alone across a nation. And DnD world doesn't really have the knowledge to know that contact with people from another world would bring such deadly diseases (especially since people do it all the time with plane shift and no one is the worse for wiser), so by the time they finally realize its a problem, it's already incubated throughout an entire town and is on its way to every nearby city.

Still, I highly doubt every bug in DnD world is unique. I still believe most, if not all of the nonmagical diseases are RL diseases from the medevil eras of our world.

[candycorn]

Meh. I disagree, but I'll drop it. Touchsight doesn't work like blindsight.

Neither does sonar. But thank you for dropping it, if not for conceding that you are incorrect.

In fact, Sonar in the real world functions a good deal differently than Blindsight does in D&D. For example, blindsight and blindsense are not vulnerable to temperature variations. Sonar is.

908 damage to blow up a 5-foot cube of rock with one attack. Hmmm. Totally mundane HP damage, so ethereals and regens can eat it fine.

Explosive energy damage, comprised of a decent amount of fire damage. So incorporeals have the same chance of being affected as they do from a torch. 50%.

And ethereals can't affect the material.

If the tank rolls badly, though, quite a lot of things can take them, and a lot of these things are summonable/gateable.

I've never seen a tank shell not do that much damage. So I'm pretty sure there's less dice dependence, and more massive static bonus. Like 1d8+907.

Meh. I was referring to it surviving personal/machine gun fire. Meh, there are better things to bring in. Still, a single battletitan should crump a tank in one full attack with PA.

I'm sure it could. Modern tanks also move at 60mph (528 feet per round) and can fire without penalty at that speed. How do battletitans reach them?

No, the large engagement has advantage to modern world. It's on the small group scale that D&D shines.

[candycorn]

Cast a spell to heal one person, requiring a fifth level cleric or druid (not exactly common), and can only be cast a limited number of times per day. Not even a team of such clerics could likely stop such an epidemic in a single city, yet alone across a nation.

But a single 17th level cleric casting Miracle could. Besides, D&D people don't have any particular vulnerability to a disease based on previous exposure. It's all handled by saving throws.

And DnD world doesn't really have the knowledge to know that contact with people from another world would bring such deadly diseases (especially since people do it all the time with plane shift and no one is the worse for wiser), so by the time they finally realize its a problem, it's already incubated throughout an entire town and is on its way to every nearby city.

And since they do it all the time, one would reason that, as above, it's not a vulnerability to D&D based characters.

Still, I highly doubt every bug in DnD world is unique. I still believe most, if not all of the nonmagical diseases are RL diseases from the medevil eras of our world.

Doesn't matter. All of our antivirals are based on modern diseases. There are probably a million variations of the Flu virus, in real life. It's why no viral disease has ever been cured. Ever. And you want to think that an unknown disease would be ID'd quickly and a cure developed? Not a chance.

Especially the magic diseases. No, our world has shown itself to be vulnerable to disease. Highly vulnerable. It's why disease warfare is equated with nuclear warfare.

D&D has not. Disease warfare is simply a not-very optimized way to kill things.

[Hecuba]

Explosive energy damage, comprised of a decent amount of fire damage. So incorporeals have the same chance of being affected as they do from a torch. 50%.

And ethereals can't affect the material.

Incorporeal creatures are not subject to mundane energy damage-- a torch does nothing. It must be magical or supernatural.

[Little Brother]

Explosive energy damage, comprised of a decent amount of fire damage. So incorporeals have the same chance of being affected as they do from a torch. 50%.

Explosive doesn't exist. Best bet is Sonic. Ethereals also can go underground or fly.

And ethereals can't affect the material.

Allip. Wis drain.

I've never seen a tank shell not do that much damage. So I'm pretty sure there's less dice dependence, and more massive static bonus. Like 1d8+907.

A glancing hit, for example, could leave it partially intact. Now, I'm not denying the sheer destructive power of a tank gun. I'm just saying, while moving at high speeds and shooting a moving target, they don't always hit dead-on.

I'm sure it could. Modern tanks also move at 60mph (528 feet per round) and can fire without penalty at that speed. How do battletitans reach them?

Teleport. Through a gate from a demiplane. Otherwise, popping up in the middle of the enemy base.

No, the large engagement has advantage to modern world. It's on the small group scale that D&D shines.

Disagreed. The D&Dverse has Indestructible flying fortresses, tank-busting spells, an infinite number of phenomenally powerful, fearless minions that can pop into the middle of the enemy territory. They can use your minions against you. They can make your artillery think that your main body of infantry is enemies in disguise and blow them up. The larger the scale, the more confusion can be sewn, and the more can go wrong with you. Earth Monoliths can pop out of the ground, and are large enough that they can Awesome Blow your tanks into each other, and otherwise crush your large weapons. You can Earthquake in the center of the enemies(Ethereal, invisible, and underground), killing massive numbers of them. Think about it: Time Stop->Illusion->Abyssal Army x however many rounds left(With the illusion hiding where they pop up), and then earthquake once the first wave of demons die. Gate in Balors and Solars, make them Wish/Miracle up Prides of the Beastlands, or whatever, then go kill face. It's more convenient for you if they die. Also, throw illusions around. Make them friendly fire.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a wizard had a Simulacrum factory of a bajillion Simulacra of Mirror Mephits to churn out soldiers. Even a simulacrum of a Balor is nasty. A hundred? That's brutal.

A well-designed and prepped wizard can do more damage in a larger scale battle. Thus, wizards want to participate in more larger-scale battles.

[kardar233]

No, the large engagement has advantage to modern world. It's on the small group scale that D&D shines.

Ehhh... a high-level Wizard with his own fast time plane can put out IKEA Tarrasques like nobody's business, and Moderns have no way of dealing with those except giving them a berth. It'll take some Move Speed optimization to make kills (and I don't know anything about that) but as ground forces they'll do well.

Air is tougher. We know that a savvy Dragon can make himself invulnerable to anything that they can throw at him (try Friendly Fire at a target inside a Portable Hole), but planes are damn fast. Spells won't reach far enough to be good AA, either. If you're willing to go a bit 3rd-party. the Immortal's Handbook has Epic Dragons with some more impressive Fly speeds that can keep up with planes.

[candycorn]

Allip. Wis drain.

Not ethereal.

A glancing hit, for example, could leave it partially intact. Now, I'm not denying the sheer destructive power of a tank gun. I'm just saying, while moving at high speeds and shooting a moving target, they don't always hit dead-on.

I will concede that 95%+ isn't always. That's the upside of computer aiming.

Teleport. Through a gate from a demiplane. Otherwise, popping up in the middle of the enemy base.

Interesting. I don't see teleport anywhere on a list of a Battletitan's abilities.

In addition, I'd submit that modern has a hell of a lot more tanks than D&D has high level wizards.

Disagreed. The D&Dverse has Indestructible flying fortresses, tank-busting spells, an infinite number of phenomenally powerful, fearless minions that can pop into the middle of the enemy territory. They can use your minions against you. They can make your artillery think that your main body of infantry is enemies in disguise and blow them up. The larger the scale, the more confusion can be sewn, and the more can go wrong with you. Earth Monoliths can pop out of the ground, and are large enough that they can Awesome Blow your tanks into each other, and otherwise crush your large weapons. You can Earthquake in the center of the enemies(Ethereal, invisible, and underground), killing massive numbers of them. Think about it: Time Stop->Illusion->Abyssal Army x however many rounds left(With the illusion hiding where they pop up), and then earthquake once the first wave of demons die. Gate in Balors and Solars, make them Wish/Miracle up Prides of the Beastlands, or whatever, then go kill face. It's more convenient for you if they die. Also, throw illusions around. Make them friendly fire.

I will say this again.

there is a difference between ethereal and incorporeal. Understand the terms before you try to act like you know them.

Further, you are attempting to use high level small scale forces vs armies. That's not "large scale". That's a mixed battle.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a wizard had a Simulacrum factory of a bajillion Simulacra of Mirror Mephits to churn out soldiers. Even a simulacrum of a Balor is nasty. A hundred? That's brutal.

Which would be in contradiction of the OP's original terms.

A well-designed and prepped wizard can do more damage in a larger scale battle. Thus, wizards want to participate in more larger-scale battles.

That's like saying, "A fat man can eat more pizza. Thus, fat people want pizza."

It's an example of flawed deductive reasoning. Capability and desire are not shown to be correlated.

[Gwendol]

Real world wins. One round (6 seconds) is an eternity for modern technology. Invisibility does nothing against IR goggles, fighter jets would come deliver and go before anyone in D&D has a chance to react. Also an army can fight until it runs out of ammo which essentially means casters are alleventually owned. Modern artillery shoots beyond the horizon if needed, at a range where most casters can't retaliate. Actually, the limited range of spells will make them almost useless.
Incorporeals would be tough to counter though.

[Little Brother]

Not ethereal.
I will concede that 95%+ isn't always. That's the upside of computer aiming.
Interesting. I don't see teleport anywhere on a list of a Battletitan's abilities.

I doubt 95% of all the tanks shots will hit. There's a reason Chimeras only have BS 3, and even Land Raiders only get BS4.

And a wizard can teleport them, troops, elementals, etc. into the middle of the enemy camp.p

In addition, I'd submit that modern has a hell of a lot more tanks than D&D has high level wizards.

So? The high level wizard can kill a HELL of a lot more tanks, easily.

I will say this again.

there is a difference between ethereal and incorporeal. Understand the terms before you try to act like you know them.

Simple error in terminology. I understand the terms perfectly. It is just 4AM. Insomnia wrecks vocabularies, you know.

Further, you are attempting to use high level small scale forces vs armies. That's not "large scale". That's a mixed battle.

Beg to disagree. I never said that would be the extent of your troops, I just said they'd be there. Use low-level-ish casters to build trenches and fortifications. Wall of force can stop artillery just fine.

Which would be in contradiction of the OP's original terms.

Not necessarily.

That's like saying, "A fat man can eat more pizza. Thus, fat people want pizza."

It's an example of flawed deductive reasoning. Capability and desire are not shown to be correlated.

Not true. The wizard wants to win. It is the most efficient allowed path to victory, and offers no real risk beyond blowing spell slots. Therefore, the wizard will want to do it.

Real world wins. One round (6 seconds) is an eternity for modern technology. Invisibility does nothing against IR goggles, fighter jets would come deliver and go before anyone in D&D has a chance to react. Also an army can fight until it runs out of ammo which essentially means casters are alleventually owned. Modern artillery shoots beyond the horizon if needed, at a range where most casters can't retaliate. Actually, the limited range of spells will make them almost useless.
Incorporeals would be tough to counter though.

Bro? Illusions. Summons. Charms. Night strikes. You are assuming that the caster will stick around, unprotected, on the front line after its spells are gone. Send in an invisible stalker to kill the people in the barracks, or to sabotage the guns, or to steal the ammo. Teleport in invisibly and incorporeally, and destroy the ammo. Predator drones are an argument. Attrition? Against Wizards? Not so much.

[Hecuba]

And ethereals can't affect the material.

There are ways around that, though I had forgotten how few. An Ethereal Reaver will be able to deliver touch spells and normal attacks, but that's fairly limited.

It may actually be preferable to use the Incoporeal ritual with savage species instead of persisting swift etherealness.

[candycorn]

There are ways around that, though I had forgotten how few. It may actually be preferable to use the Incoporeal ritual with savage species instead of persisting swift etherealness.

As far as I know, there is precisely one, and it applies to physical attacks only. A sufficiently leveled ninja can strike material from ethereal. To my knowledge, no other race, class, feat, spell, or other feature offers this capability.

EDIT: Also, Savage species is 3.0, and the OP stated 3.5 rules.

[candycorn]

I doubt 95% of all the tanks shots will hit. There's a reason Chimeras only have BS 3, and even Land Raiders only get BS4.

Because 40K bears precious little similarity to the real world?

Not true. The wizard wants to win. It is the most efficient allowed path to victory, and offers no real risk beyond blowing spell slots. Therefore, the wizard will want to do it.

Assuming motivations not evidenced. You are assuming the wizard will want to engage large armies, rather than an actual intelligent path to victory, which involves circumventing the enemy's strength altogether.

I do not. I assume my wizards will do the action that is most effective, rather than participate in an action because they are more effective than others.

So wizards will likely be charming, dominating, polymorphing, and disguising their way through the enemy...

And things that are dumb will go at the enemy's force head on.

[Hecuba]

As far as I know, there is precisely one, and it applies to physical attacks only. A sufficiently leveled ninja can strike material from ethereal. To my knowledge, no other race, class, feat, spell, or other feature offers this capability.

EDIT: Also, Savage species is 3.0, and the OP stated 3.5 rules.

There is actually a relic in complete divine that will allow it for 10 rounds per day as well, but you have to use the relic as the method of jaunt. Tabard of some god or another. Would also need another feat for True Believer though.

As mentioned, the ethereal reaver will also work (the specific weapon, not the weapon enhancement), though in a limited fashion.

You could also make use of the spell from ghost walk that lets you make animal ghosts that last days/level.

Also, 3.0 content is legal for 3.5 in the absence of replacing update.

EDIT: If needed, I can grab specific names for these when I'm not away from my books. Also, there are a couple magical beasts that would work, which you could shapechange into, but I'm still looking at this from the non-full caster angle.

[Aux-Ash]

What I find fascinating about these threads is that in general there's very little comparison and a lot of assumptions in favour of one side.
These things are complex, you cannot simply go "my favourite side got X so therefore it wins". Why does it win due to that? Does it got that in sufficient quantity to make a difference?

How does the DnD-verse handle the multi-km weapon ranges and several hundred ft/round speeds of the modern world?

How does it handle weapons being fired from beyond the horizon and moving so fast that the first warning you get is a mere moment before it hits?

How many men can be expected to be affected in typical spell radiuses?

How does the modern world handle invisibility? Does it have weaknesses that can be exploited? Just how long does it last anyways? How much damage can it actually do?

Can wizards outrun cruise missiles, aereal bomb carpets or rolling artillery barrages?

Teleport relies on knowledge of the area you're teleporting to. How will this affect the effectiveness of the wizards, seeing they know nothing of our world and modern military doctrine puts heavy emphasis on mobility?

How does the scrying compare to satellites?

Just how many high levelled wizards (and equalient spellcasters) will the dnd army have anyways? How hard will they have to work to stand on even footing? How many spells do they have to dedicate to just keep themselves safe? How often do they need to be renewed? Can the other side keep up the pressure for that long or longer? How much do they have left to wreak havoc with?

If you find the one thing that's completely immune to everything the modern world got. Is it really a good idea to release it on the 7 billion population? Can you handle the aftermath of that?

How does cloudkill compare to sarin gas cannisters fired from a artillery brigade and a unspecified location 14 km away?

Will NBC gear have any effect against magically summoned gases?

And at all times. Assume that the other side try to actively work around what you just proposed.

From some brief reserach, it seems to me that the only thing the dnd universe have that can survive the sheer destructive power of the modern world for more than one or two rounds is high levelled spell casters and things that can only be hurt by magic. Is that enough for them to win? I don't know... how many of those do they have?

[Lord Vukodlak]

Real world wins. One round (6 seconds) is an eternity for modern technology. Invisibility does nothing against IR goggles, fighter jets would come deliver and go before anyone in D&D has a chance to react. Also an army can fight until it runs out of ammo which essentially means casters are alleventually owned. Modern artillery shoots beyond the horizon if needed, at a range where most casters can't retaliate. Actually, the limited range of spells will make them almost useless.
Incorporeals would be tough to counter though.

Invisibility does nothing against IR goggles,

Nope inferred is still light which can be bent by invisibilty. In 2.0 they had infravision. Invisibilty trumpt it.

Here's how I defeat the modern army if I was a high level wizard.
I scry on all the political, financial and media rulers in the world(who I can easily learn about from watching TV.) I then use teleportation, charm and dominate to put them all in my pocket. Then I have my magic and a modern army.

I could use my magic to steal modern weapons, teleport in anywhere invisibly drop explosives then leave. A hat of disguise would make identifying me impossible. I could frame people left and right. And we can't forget things like Programmed Amnesia.

I can control the damn weather and monitor the situation safe from within my Magnificent Mansion. Foresight, Contengency both great ways to help me instantly escape if caught or targeted.

All of this from just one high level wizard, whosebest adviced to do massive diamond heists so a cleric friend can true resurrect if possible.

Now lets say I'm a Lich, even if I get killed I'll be back as I could hide my phylactery beyond the reach of modern world humans. What if I'm a 30th level wizard and can cast, Rain Of Fire. 1 fire damage a round to all creatures in a 2 mile radius for 20 hours.

[Gwendol]

What I'm saying is that at the time scale in which D&D operates, the modern army can do sooooo much. Heck, even an ordinary artillery shelling will force concentration checks enough per round for casting to be difficult. And that at a distance where magic for the most part can't be used to retaliate. A single strategic nuke would be a serious problem for most in D&D.
Summons have too short range, move too slowly, and during too short duration for being a credible threat. Invisible stalker? A sonar/radar/IR equipped sentry gun or drone would have it taken out in no time.

Think about it: in 6 seconds, how many artillery rounds can be fired? Rockets launched? Rounds fired? And at what distance?

[Amoren]

The counter to invisibility is paint ball guns. (And don't tell me that doesn't work, glitter dust reveals invisible targets after all).

Motion detectors will probably work against invisible targets, however. Which will help prevent invisible targets from walking through the Earth controlled portal. And if they've got a largely successful first strike going, then they may have already learned quite a bit about the world they're invading due to captured soldiers and what not.

Of course, another factor to consider is just the difference in numbers here. A kingdom will be lucky to have a few thousand soldiers, while a nation has several thousand. Kingdoms, outside of high level magic users, have to march their soldiers into battle (which is lethal in of itself), Earth armies can be transported across the planet in a couple of days (although this level of travel isn't likely to exist on the DnD side of the portal).

And if we look at another side of things. The standard/generic/'stock' DnD world has very few, if any, high level wizards. And the few that do exist don't seem to interact at all, if any, with the world at large. The setting is mostly mundane armies with some magical support at varying levels. It's not wizards creating unstoppable killing machines (or being unstoppable killing machines) that players constantly create and optimize for.

[Aharon]

There was a long discussion that basically came to the conclusion that magic would definitely win.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182987

To make the discussion more interesting, I made a scenario with different ground rules where the outcome is not as clear cut:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archi...?t-183399.html

[Lord Vukodlak]

What I'm saying is that at the time scale in which D&D operates, the modern army can do sooooo much. Heck, even an ordinary artillery shelling will force concentration checks enough per round for casting to be difficult. And that at a distance where magic for the most part can't be used to retaliate. A single strategic nuke would be a serious problem for most in D&D.
Summons have too short range, move too slowly, and during too short duration for being a credible threat. Invisible stalker? A sonar/radar/IR equipped sentry gun or drone would have it taken out in no time.

Think about it: in 6 seconds, how many artillery rounds can be fired? Rockets launched? Rounds fired? And at what distance?

I've already taken control of the army before they knew I existed using enchantments and illusions, I rain down severe unexplained weather and simply retreat before the enemy knows I was there.
I could also avoid the army and destroy supply lines.

Invisible stalker? A sonar/radar/IR equipped sentry gun or drone would have it taken out in no time.

Silence counters sonor and IR doesn't necessarlly work on invisibilty. A stalker is kind of an air elemental its wind, it wouldn't show up anymore then a cloud.
I could spend 20 minutes sheltering in a telekenetic sphere immune from damage. Then teleport away just to mock modern weapons and make them waste ammo.

I could a combination of teleportation, programmed amnesia and disguise self to trigger nuclear war between nations. Then just go home before the fireworks start.

[Averis Vol]

I'm going to throw something in here myself. the OP said that D&D doesn't exist in our world, and the ONLY time a wizard will come up with all these ridiculous plans is when nerds do, in fact, interact with the game world in such a manner that they would single handedly bend the world over its knee and make it their bitch. look at any of the published high level wizards, there is absolutely no wizard that prepares these combos. So i submit that the wizard WILL use fireball and there will not be CoDzillas running around to such a degree as high op play.