Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIV

[mattie_p]

It's all in the eyes of the judges, tricks like that are what make this competition.

[dextercorvia]

I considered entering as a Cleric, using Southern Magician and the spontaneous cure/inflict spells to qualify, using DMM Heighten to be technically able to cast spells up to 9th level, then using the bonus slots from Dragon Disciple to cast 9th level spells for real. I didn't write it up because I wasn't sure about the legality (I've heard conflicting things about how DMM Heighten works) and didn't feel confident in my ability to polish it up properly.

It's all in the eyes of the judges, tricks like that are what make this competition.

Two problems. It's known cheese. That is what prevented me from entering a variant on my Domain Generalist. Also, Dragon Disciple gives bonus feats which require a class granted ability to cast those spells, rather than a feat granted ability.

[mattie_p]

Two problems. It's known cheese. That is what prevented me from entering a variant on my Domain Generalist. Also, Dragon Disciple gives bonus feats which require a class granted ability to cast those spells, rather than a feat granted ability.

In the words of the chairman...

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Judges can and will make their own judgement as to whether that level of cheese is "sane" or not, acceptable or not, and award/deduct power, elegance, originality at their discretion. Of course, if all these potential builds had made it in there, judges might have fled.

[Soranar]

How is Tael Yerenor casting spells spontaneously? Did I miss a feat or something?

[dextercorvia]

How is Tael Yerenor casting spells spontaneously? Did I miss a feat or something?

Signature Spell, although it appears he made an illegal choice for his signature spell.

[WhamBamSam]

Two problems. It's known cheese. That is what prevented me from entering a variant on my Domain Generalist. Also, Dragon Disciple gives bonus feats which require a class granted ability to cast those spells, rather than a feat granted ability.

I absolutely agree that it's known cheese. I'd need to read up a lot before I had any good tricks that weren't simply picked up by lurking around this forum.

As for the bonus spells, I can certainly see where you're coming from. My 9th level Spells/Day would still be written as " - " rather than "0" on the chart thing when I started trying to stick bonus spells into it. Dragon Disciple does only say that I need the ability to cast spells of the given level, but you know more about this than I do, so I'll defer to your judgment.

[dextercorvia]

I absolutely agree that it's known cheese. I'd need to read up a lot before I had any good tricks that weren't simply picked up by lurking around this forum.

As for the bonus spells, I can certainly see where you're coming from. My 9th level Spells/Day would still be written as " - " rather than "0" on the chart thing when I started trying to stick bonus spells into it. Dragon Disciple does only say that I need the ability to cast spells of the given level, but you know more about this than I do, so I'll defer to your judgment.

Bonus spells are defined in the PHB (where they first come into play -- for high ability scores -- but the wording is not limited to that). It refers to needing sufficient class level to cast such spells. There are only class abilities that grant extra spells/day which are not explicitly limited to normal spells/day or called out as bonus spells. They are Elven Generalist, Wonderworker, and Anima Mage. My normal approach is to do a Domain Wizard/Elven Generalist, but Amph has specifically called out the Domain Wizard as illegal in the past. I was going to use Elven Generalist/Anima Mage to spring the ladder and get 9th level spells. It was feat intensive and hard to pull off by the time you qualify for Dragon Disciple, but doable.

[Z3ro]

Mother of god ::removes sunglasses::

No seriously, that's about as many entries as I thought there would be (I figured 25). I don't have a lot going on at work this week, so I'm hoping to get my judging in by Friday. Wish me luck.

[OMG PONIES]

Mother of god ::removes sunglasses::

No seriously, that's about as many entries as I thought there would be (I figured 25). I don't have a lot going on at work this week, so I'm hoping to get my judging in by Friday. Wish me luck.

Good luck and godspeed, you brave man .

[Z3ro]

And we're well on track. I've got the framework for 18 of the builds judged. I should be able to hit the rest tomorrow, then hitting the books because there's a lot of questionable rules I have to look up. I might even be able to beat my Friday estimate and get judging in on Thursday. Just be glad I'm not doing anything at work this week.

[gbprime]

Isn't bowser illegal? He's using gestalt.

Gestalt is listed as illegal, yes, but up in the original post under "kitchen" rather than down in the FAQ. To be fair, you have to read carefully to see that. And also Generic Classes, they fall under the "judges discretion" for elegance, and I see there's a build using one of those as well. I would assume many judges would apply a deduction to that.

I eagerly await the judges scores on such builds, and on the various interesting uses of the Bonus Spell class feature as well.

[Thurbane]

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. This comes up often enough to bear mention in the rules: Dragon Compendium is allowed.

...it's not exactly hidden either. I can see how someone might miss it, but it's fairly obvious that pitting gestalts against non-gestalts in a character design comp makes for uneven footing.

[Amechra]

Huh, I knew my build was kinda generic but...

That is a lot of Battle Sorcerers.

I was actually thinking of doing a Quasilycanthrope (Monitor Lizard) Human Druid 1/Binder 5/Dragon Disciple 10/Warshaper 3 build, using Magical Training to get in, and using the Shapechange variant to actually look like a Dragon.

It got something like 15' reach, a 2d6 bite attack, and a Natural Armor bonus of around +10 if you where Binding Dalhver-Nar...

I just lost track of time (and found the sexy, sexy Dragon Prophesier feat... Damn, there are some neat things you can do with that thing...)

[Menteith]

That is a lot of Battle Sorcerers.

I honestly expected more people to use Duskblade instead of Battle Sorcerer. It's better for a melee build if you're going to lose 10 caster levels anyway, and there's really not a lot of synergy between Sorcerer and Dragon Disciple anyway.

[dantiesilva]

It was an ewxpected thing thus no one wanted to do it thus making it a great choice to choose because it was so obvious. The loop. Battle sorcerer seemed a much safer route to go because after all their is the sorcerer and then the battle sorcerer, making you chances better of not having the same idea as someone else...This time around though it was not so great of a choice I would say. I can see points being taken for that hands down.

What I was surprised to see was Some builds that went way out in left field and that may make them win because it was not something that has been done before. I think out of the 23 builds we have 5 that really stand out to me.

[Garwain]

I played with the idea of going undead, a type that normally doesn't qualify for the half-dragon template, but can qualify for this PrC. Unfortunatly, it was just too complicated to find any benefits.

[OMG PONIES]

Hmm, Garwain, that would have been an interesting piece of optimization. As for the expected builds, I thought we'd see a few battle sorcerers given the expected playstyle of the DD. However, I thought the field of competition would be awash in Aeshkrau Illumian Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragon Disciple 10. Using all that STR to fuel bonus spells seemed too good to be ignored, coupled with the fact that BAB 17 nets you the fourth iterative attack and your Krau sigil boosts your CL to 19.

[dantiesilva]

Well one of the builds seemed to have gone that way partially. They got the illumani and the sigils.

[ThiagoMartell]

Well, I think I got all of them judged. Now excuse me while I faint from exhaustion.

Orvalo - 10

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Originality: 3
I don't think I have ever seen an azurin mineral warrior around. However, we have another azurin in the competition and mineral warrior by itself is common enough in IC to justify a penalty. Wu Jen is awesome and it's good to see more people using it. I see you used Sapphire Dragon instead of Incarnum Dragon, which is good since Incarnum Dragon's status as a true dragon is debatable and there are no rules for half incarnum dragons. I specifically like the Earth Friend + clones trick.

Elegance: 1
Alacritous Cogitation, Earth Spell, Body Outside Body... You're basically swimming in known cheese.

Power: 5
If it all comes online, all that cheese together becomes quite a lot of power.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1
You jump through hoops to do something you could already do as a single-classed Wu Jen. You brought plenty of interesting tricks to the table, but they don't really depend on Dragon Disciple, it's stuff you can do even though you're gimped by it.

Jeanette Crawford - 14.5

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Originality: 3.5
Battle Sorcerer was used by plenty of other people, Soul Eater and Daelkyr are rare. Really liked the backstory.

Elegance: 3
The build flows well. I loved how you set the progression up. I just had to deduct for using Soul Eater's RAI reading instead of the RAW one.

Power: 4
She is consistent all around with the negative levels thing, a tad weak defensively, but with good offense - if a bit overfocused. What I specially liked (and what makes this a 4 after all) was that you went full throttle on not being item dependant and took advantage of class features to get your enhancement bonuses.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4
Dragon Disciple is a stepping stone into Soul Eater, but the character is really defined by what it gets from it. The build is a lot more about Soul Eater than it is about Dragon Disciple, which prevents this from being a full score, but well done nonetheless.

Salomon - 6.5

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Originality: 1
Human, Sorcerer, Abjurant Champion... it doesn't get any more generic than that.

Elegance: 1
I'm trying very hard to figure out how you managed to get 7th level spells, but I just can't see it. It seems completely illegal. I'm willing to change this if someone can point out what I missed.

Power: 3.5
Well, if everything does work as intended, you get 7th level spells.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1
All the SI does is slow you down and add flavor.

Tael Yerenor - 11.5

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Originality: 4
Can't say that fluff is anything but original. Takes guts to submit something like that. And usinf Wizard? Talk about guts.

Elegance: 2
Yeah, you're using wizard and known cheese to qualify. You've certainly seen this coming. Looks like your choice of Signature Spell is not valid, as well.

Power: 3.5
Well, you're a wizard... with a lot of open 5th level spells. If you had actually chosen them, this could be higher.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2
Can't say this is not a Dragon Disciple build, but Wizard can do everything there with spells. There is not even the cost in spells known that Sorcerer would get. A few Bite of WereX spells and you would get mostly the same results on a Wizard 20, or an actual Wizard gish build.

Wodan Silverblood - 11

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Originality: 1
Vanilla build is vanilla.

Elegance: 3
Simple, direct, straight like an arrow. You could have gotten a 5.
Then you had to go and take Wyrm of War at level 20. Sovereign Archetypes are only for true dragons.

Power: 4
Your spell list is about as gishy as it gets. My problem is with Draconic Polymorph. You are basically giving up all your 10 levels in Dragon Disciple whenever you cast that spell. So you took a spell that makes your build irrelevant.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
I'm generous here because I like all you did, but Draconic Polymorph makes the secret ingredient irrelevant.

Avi - 11

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Originality: 4
Warmage and Talon of Tiamat, nice change of pace.

Elegance: 2
How the hell do you get 6th level spells? I'm willing to change this if someone explains how.

Power: 2
You're a blaster with melee backup. That is not exactly optimal.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
You pretty much use it as intended.

Asheel - 11.5

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Originality: 3.5
Duskblade was expected, buy Ur-Priest surprised me.

Elegance: 1
It doesn't get any more cheesier than this.

Power: 5
An Ur-Priest with extra firepower. Can't go wrong with that.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2
Only five levels, but you actively used it in your build. Not impressed, this is an Ur-Priest build with bait-and-switch Dragon Disciple for extra slots.

Iujaku - 15.5

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Originality: 3.5
Didn't really expect a Kensai, but it makes a lot of sense.

Elegance: 4.5
Just a minor concern with build pacing, otherwise pretty good.

Power: 3.5
You're a melee beast, but your spellcasting puts you behind basically everyone here. You are really good at you chose to do, so I'm being generous.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4
You could have used the breath weapon and the bonus spell slots better, but I like what you did overall.

Balaur - 13.5

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Originality: 5
Ignoring all spellcasting took major guts and I respect that. Dragon Samurai is a class I'd like to see as a secret ingredient one of these days.

Elegance: 2
I think you meant Magical Training as your first level feat.

Power: 3.5
Your build blooms late, but it's always a reliable support character.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
I just kept thinking all the time - why isn't it a Dragon Shaman?

Zordon Blue - 11.5

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Originality: 2
Yet another Battle Sorcerer. At least it's a Totemist.

Elegance: 3
Nitpick: you don't get illiteracy when you multiclass into a class that has it. I'm glad you mentioned the incarnum dragon but did not choose it.

Power: 3.5
A well-built natural attack gish, if a bit lacking in the spellcasting department.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
You play to the secret ingredient's strenghts, but Totemist is another of those classes that could do most of what DD does on it's own.

Xiroth Stirving - 12.5

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Originality: 4
Ah, a Dread Necromancer! I thought about using one of these myself.

Elegance: 3
You jumped around a bit between classes for no reason I could identify, but it looks solid otherwise.

Power: 2
Your feat selection, well... sucks.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5
You could have used more of the ingredient's class features. Your weak feat selection hurts you here, since you could have emphasized it more.

Yul'uth-ca - 14.5

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Originality: 4
Amphibious Anthropomorphic Squid?! Using a SAP?! With Vow of Poverty?!?!?! It blew my mind!
...but someone else did it, so a small deduction.

Elegance: 2
The flaw hurt you here. Your progression is a bit wierd with that last bit of Battle Sorcerer in the end - why not use Abjurant Champion?

Power: 3.5
You could have done better here. Being melee-only already hurts you a bit, and your feat selection could be improved (why are you not using Rapidstrike, for example?).

Use of Secret Ingredient: 5
You really went full throttle here. You're a dragon disciple for 13 levels instead of 10. I like how you used spell shield to get some use of the spell slots.

Katria - 12.5

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Originality: 3.5
Battle Dancer was unexpected. I imagined more people would go for Dragon Devotee.

Elegance: 3
Everything is neat. I wanted to see a full Dragon Devotee here, though. Fits better thematically and I think it's stronger. You should explain your tricks better - just listing statblocks means we might miss what you can do.

Power: 3
You're a bit weaker than other melee focused characters in the contest.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
You pretty much use it as intended, but you don't do anything special with it.

Son of Edi - 7.5

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Originality: 4
Wonderworker surprised me. Like the breath focus as well.

Elegance: 1.5
Draconic was kind of a weird choice, taking that +1 LA hit. I don't think you really understood how metabreath feats are supposed to work, you need a cooldown on your breath weapon to use it... and you don't get that form Draconic Breath.

Power: 1
Your main trick simply does not work. Can't judge this any better when you sank so much resources on something that doesn't work.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1
Even considering what you wanted to do, DD works only as some kind of backup. If you had focused your trick on the DD breath weapon, it could have scored better.

Leofriadinesal - 14

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Originality: 3
Nothing surprising but nothing too obvious. Like how you went full melee.

Elegance: 5
That's a build I would see allowed in pretty much all games around. Simples, direct, no ambiguities.

Power: 3.5
You have a bunch of maneuvers and weapon aptitude putting you a hair above the other melee characters. Your feat selection could use some work.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5
You are really focused, but like I said feat selection could help emphasize other aspects of the SI. You basically ignore most of it.

Bowser - 5

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Originality: 5
No one has ever done this before in IC.

Elegance: 0
The build is illegal for contest purposes.

Power: 0
The build is illegal for contest purposes.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 0
The build is illegal for contest purposes.

Sam - 16.5

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Originality: 4.5
You could have gotten a 5 but so many people are being so extreme that I couldn't justify it.

Elegance: 5
This is simply beautiful. Simple, the classes complement each other well, the progression is well thought out.
I liked your suggestions at the end, even though I see no reason to use the victory dragon, specially since it's so much like the battle dragon.

Power: 4
You're not only a melee beast, you have all the power of optimized Inspire Courage to boost the whole party.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
You don't really use everything out of it.

Tyrus Blackscale - 11.5

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Originality: 3.5
No one ever uses Generic Warrior, but I don't want to give a big bonus from using a generic class, since they're boring.

Elegance: 2
Using alternate UA system deserves an elegance hit due to contest rules.

Power: 3
It's funny how you don't really get much from generic Warrior, you could do most of what you did in other ways, sparring that elegance hit. You end up with a melee DD with less tricks than the other melee DDs in the contest.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
Generic Warrior for a generic build.

Samantha - 14.5

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Originality: 4
Really liked the use of Swanmay. That class deserves more love.

Elegance: 2.5
Swanmay only progresses Druid or Ranger casting. Spirit Shaman casts from the Druid list, but it's still not a Druid. Small penalty because I really liked the build.

Power: 4
Plenty of options, well made selections, staying power and versatility. Like it.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4
You manage to make Dragon Disciple be the focus of the build even with all the options around. Impressive.

Phaen bol Andras - 18

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Originality: 4.5
Very original elements, but someone had a very similar idea.

Elegance: 4.5
The one thing I can complain about is interrupting progressions and jumping around.

Power: 4
Possibly the best among the melee focused characters. Leap Attack and Pounce makes all the difference in damage, you have few spells but they are very well selected.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 5
I really like it. You emphasized everything that needed to bt emphasized. Everything in the build add to what you get from DD. Excellent work.

Dracotaur - 17.5

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Originality: 5
Whenever someone goes for a monster race I get surprised.

Elegance: 5
I loved how you pointed out it could be done core-only and that bit about old school feel. It convinced to give you a 5 in elegance automatically.

Power: 4
You're all about that physical power.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5
You didn't emphasize all of the SI's abilities.

Draco Dragon - 12.5

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Originality: 4
Another Battle Dancer? Uh. I love Thayan Gladiator. Loved the music references.

Elegance: 1
Too many dips and stuff, considers Soul Eater RAI instead of RAW.

Power: 4
All those dips get you a lot to play with.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5
You miss out on a few abilities but you do very well on what you use.

Assassin - 11.5

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Originality: 4
Honestly thought we'd see more Monks.

Elegance: 1.5
Taking Kung-fu Genius before taking Monk is kinda weird. How do you get 4th level spells? Oh, you don't. You shouldn't have just copied the Assassin table, though. More Rogue at the end of the build looks even more weird.

Power: 3
Melee only, low spellcasting, dependant on sneak attack. Nothing extraordinary.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
Nothing that jumps out to me.

[Z3ro]

Orvalo: 13.0

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Originality: 4.0 Another contestant selected Azurin, and another used Incarnum (though not Incarnate). These are small quibbles in an otherwise highly original build (which is impressive this round). An earth themed warrior in a dragon contest, that fights primarily through burrowing? Very cool.

Power: 4.0 You’re lucky power and elegance are two separate categories. As presented, you’re build is quite strong. You start out very playable, and by the end you’ve got two extra versions of you running around wreaking havoc. A large number of attacks, powerful spell-casting, and a couple of tricks given your burrow speed, all come together in a powerful package.

Elegance: 1.5 Big hit here, which is unfortunate as you had a great theme going throughout the build. I’m not sure whether the heighten trick, plus Alacritous cogitation is RAW legal, but I do know most DMs would not allow it, losing you points. In addition, requiring a mouthpick gnomish quickrazor, with no way to make one yourself, is a little too much. Also, chaos incarnate seems a little off when combines with an earth build; I’ve always seen the earth element as more lawful.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5 You do ok with the secret ingredient. You maximize the spell-casting (even if with questionable rules interpretation), utilize the natural attacks, and when combining flight and burrowing make a diverse combination. But while you do that, you could have done all of it without the SI. So an ok score.

Jenny: 15.0

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Originality: 1.5 This is not exactly original. Soul eater/anything with natural weapons is a combo that has been around a long time, and one I fully expected this round.

Power: 4.0 That being said, it’s a well know combo because it works. You lose points for starting out on the weaker side of the contest, but boy do you ramp up later. By the end of the contest, you can inflict massive numbers of negative levels in a hurry, bulking yourself up in the process. The only real problem are things that are immune to negative levels (undead, smart spellcasters); you don’t really have an answer for these. If you had gotten around that, your score would have been higher.

Elegance: 4.5 Can’t say it’s not elegant. No real questionable rules interpretations, nice flow, stays around the theme throughout. The only reason I didn’t give you a five is the seemingly random placement of soul eater levels; I couldn’t really puzzle out why you put them were you did.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 5.0 You sure used it to its fullest. Everything is utilized, and they all revolve around your theme. You claws and bite inflict negative levels, your breath weapon inflicts negative levels, your spells inflict negative levels. All of your tricks revolve around the SI. Congratulations, a perfect score in the hardest to score category. Nice job.

Salomon: 8.0

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Originality: 2.0 There’s nothing particularly noteworthy about this build in this regard. It’s the only one with Abjurant Champion, I suppose, but it uses human sorcerer, hardly original, and doesn’t really do anything with that. Nothing in the power setup or trick department either, and the lack of a backstory really hurts.

Power: 2.0 Without a level by level breakdown, I’m not exactly sure what your build is doing. Are you a melee fighter, a spell-caster, a gish? I don’t know, so it makes judging hard. The best I can tell, you’re a sorta week gish with a pretty good defenses, winning you my hard to hurt but easy to ignore award this round.

Elegance: 2.0 Your build is decently elegant with a good progression, but loses points on two fronts; first, I don’t see how you’re getting 6th and 7th level spells; you just kind of list them, with no explanation how you got them (dragon disciple doesn’t grant them). And second, craft wand at level 15? It’s so out of place, it’s hard not to mention.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.0 You take all ten levels, but you don’t really do anything with them. You don’t utilize your natural weapons in any way, flying could’ve been replaced with a spell, and you don’t really do anything with your breath weapon. Would’ve been much better off with more levels of sorcerer (a problem when using full casting base classes).

Tael Yerenor: 11.5

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Originality: 3.5 The only wizard to attempt to enter the contest this round, so points for that (I was sure there’d be more; see elegance as to why there weren’t) and the only frost mage as well. You do focus on natural attacks, something others do as well, but many others went the VoP route.

Power: 2.0 The build is excessively weak at lower levels, and only ramps up later, so you lose points there. Once it gets goings, it’s…just ok. You can certainly lay down some pain with your claws/bite, but that’s really about it. Your spells certainly help your cause, but they don’t help enough. Something like a straight totemist would end up being much better with his natural attacks, if slightly less versatile. Also, since you didn’t list your 5th level spells, I can’t include them in this category, as what you would have picked might be different than what I would have picked.

Elegance: 2.0 You don’t qualify for the SI; you take signature spell (chill touch), which would be questionable enough (I don’t think it would actually qualify you on the basis of spontaneous spell casting, but at least you have a case) but signature spell requires one of the spells you designate with spell mastery, and chill touch was not one of them. Aside from that huge issue no other problems.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.0 You do a good job with what is given, focusing on natural attacks and augmenting them. You take all ten levels (if entering a bit late). Points are lost as you don’t really do anything with your breath weapon.

Wodan Silverblood: 10.5

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Originality: 2.0 Stalwart Battle Sorcerer, one of the most popular entrants. You tried to focus more on Tome of Battle, so a little bump there, along with focusing on familiars, something no one else did.

Power: 4.0 This category is tough to rate for me. You start out on the weak side, but through a combination of spells, maneuvers, and your familiars, you end up a pretty efficient melee machine (how you get there is elegance). Though not as powerful as you list (you can’t combine weapon and claw attacks from the same hand), arcane strike plus six attacks in a round is quite a potent combination. Draconic polymorph gives you the usual benefits of polymorph plus, which is powerful, and the dragon breath is a great breath plus. So in the end you’re a very strong melee fight, but not much besides, so a good, but not great, score.

Elegance: 1.0 Lots of issues here. First, I can’t find anything to support your reading that Wyrm of War grants you sorcerer levels as initiator levels. I see nothing in draconic bloodline or dragon disciple that suggest you gain the initiator powers of wyrm of war. In addition, you assume the use of psychic reformation on both your familiars and yourself, something that’s highly dubious and unlikely to be approved by any sane DM.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5 You get a bump for taking all ten levels, but other than that you don’t do much with the SI. Your spell already give you plenty of natural attacks, your arcane strike would be better off with more sorcerer levels, and your breath weapon bonus assumes you have access to psychic reformation.

Avi: 10.0

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Originality: 4.0 Surprisingly, the only warmage and talon of tiamat this round (I totally expected more of both). Also get points for being a primary spell caster, something very few others did.

Power: 2.0 That said, very few others went the spellcasting route because dragon disciple kills your spell level. You only list blasting spells, and don’t have a level breakdown that lets me know how you’re using your build, so I’m going to assume your primary purpose is blowing things up. And that works for a little bit, but by mid-levels your peers (even those who focus exclusively on melee) outstrip you.

Elegance: 2.0 I’m not sure how you’re getting 6th level spells with dragon disciple, as it doesn’t increase caster level, only spells known. If you’re using practiced spellcaster, it doesn’t work that way. Besides that, everything else seems to flow fairly well.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.0 You take all ten levels, but that’s about all you have going for you. It appears your focus is on the spellcasting, but this isn’t really a spellcasting PrC; it’s much more a gish, and you don’t take advantage of the various things that make it that, such as natural attacks and a breath weapon.

Asheel: 11.5

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Originality: 3. Urpriest is original and completely unexpected, but human duskblade are kinda blah and expected, so average.

Power: 5.0 The bulk of this power score comes from one simple fact: 9th level spells. Pulling down the Urpriest casting gives this build a huge lift in power, putting this build right at the top given the benchmark of the contest (weak gish). Besides the spells, you can contribute decently in melee as well, so bonus there.

Elegance: 2.5 Not bad elegance wise, but you didn’t list your spells, making me guess which spells you were using/taking. You also have to devote your early feats to Urpriest prereqs, breaking up the build flow. Dragon disciple feels taken on at the end, especially given the backstory of the build.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.0 You had to see this coming. Didn’t take all ten levels, and didn’t use any of the abilities you did get (besides more spellcasting, but even that feels uneccasary). Really, this is an Urpriest build with dragon disciple added on, not the other way around.

Iujako: 11.0

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Originality: 3.0 The only Kensai, something I honestly thought we’d see more of. The rest of your build is pretty standard, however. Melee, focusing on natural attacks, is pretty much the definition of unoriginal. This would have been lower, but I really liked the story of the dragon mentor and his murder (it would have been higher, too, had the story had a more satisfying ending).

Power: 2.0 You get a real *meh* in the power department. You’re basically a charger; that’s fine, we can work with a charger. The problem is he’s not a really good charger. You don’t have anything to make it easier to hit or multiply damage on a charge, and you don’t take advantage of your kensai ability to ramp up your damage. And you point out that you can’t always charge, but your answer to that is to…stand there and trade blows? That’s not a great fallback plan.

Elegance: 3.0 Fighter dip is thrown in there, but that’s ok. The real elegance problem for me is that kensai is stuck in there and feels like it should be a bigger part of the build, but it really isn’t. Honestly you’d be better thematically with more duskblade levels (especially give the backstory). Worse yet, dragon disciple also feels tacked-on, offering little besides natural attacks, questioning why those levels were taken at all.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.0 You take all ten levels, but as mentioned in elegance, they feel tacked-on. You make use of the natural weapons, but even that ability isn’t really showcased (it’s just one of several kind of attacks you make). Overall just and average score.

Balaur: 11.0

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Originality: 4.0 Marshal was different and unexpected, but dragon samurai was not, in addition to being used by another competitor. I really liked the backstory, which, even if far-fetched, was entertaining to read and really brought the character together. Didn’t see many builds focusing on their breath weapons, so bonus for that.

Power: 2.5 The reason many builds didn’t focus on breath weapons is because they’re not great. Really, by level 20, you’re basically a poor-man’s dragonfire adept . In addition, your build doesn’t really ramp up till later, leaving you underpowered at low levels while your tricks come online.

Elegance: 4.0 No real rule issues on this one, but the flow just seems a little off. Starting as marshal then transitioning into dragon disciple is jarring. In addition, you have to rely on feats to get the spellcasting you need, which you then ignore later.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5 I don’t really see the SI here. You take all ten levels, but that’s about it. You don’t focus on the spell casting or natural weapons and instead expand on the breath weapon. Which is fine, but as stated, doesn’t really turn out to be worth the time in the end.

Zordon Blue: 11.0

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Originality: 3.0 Battle sorcerer and Azurin were used by other contestants, but totemist was original. Focusing on natural attacks was done by many other builds, leaving you with only an average score.

Power: 3.0 I’ll be honest, I had a hard time placing this build, power-wise. It starts off a little slow, but really ramps up around level 9, when you get multi attack and are throwing around arcane strikes. But then towards the end, it kind of tails off, topping around level 15 and not getting appreciably stronger. In addition, you don’t do much besides rip off faces; you do that well for a while, but even then it tapers off. So an average score.

Elegance: 2.5 You got a lot going on and it seems forced together. Battle sorcerer and totemist don’t really gel, and your essentia is all over the place until the very end of the build. You would have really benefitted by focusing more on the totemist or sorcerer levels.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5 Like many others, you get some use out of the levels, but not a ton. You probably would have been better off getting your natural attacks from totemist, and your use of the breath weapon was good, but by using all ten levels, your build ends up going in too many directions. Focusing on a base class would have helped enhance this category as well.

Xiroth Stirving: 7.5

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Originality: 3.0 Dread Necromancer was different and unexpected, but fighter was also used, not to mention a build that focuses on natural attacks. Could have potentially been higher if you had a backstory to tie things together.

Power: 2.0 You start off strong with the dread necromancer levels, but then you just kind of die to self-inflicted wounds. You focus on natural attacks, but don’t take something like arcane strike that could have really upped the damage per attack. In addition, I think you assumed TWF gives you extra claw and bite attacks; it doesn’t . There’s potential here, but without massive rebuilding you’re not dishing out much damage.

Elegance: 1.0 This build looks like a mess. Since you have no backstory, I have no idea why you took Dread Necromancer, and without a level breakdown I’m not sure which abilities (besides charnel touch) you’re using. In addition, you make a huge error in how TWF applies to natural attacks.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5 I’m not too sure why you took the SI. You get a bump for taking all ten levels, but don’t really do anything with them. Since natural weapons don’t interact with TWF like you think they do there’s not much here to recommend the SI over, say, more Dread Necromancer.

Yul’uth-ca: 14.0

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Originality: 4.0 Um…wow. Anthropomorphic giant octopus was totally unexpected. Enough that after I deduct for stalwart battle sorcerer and half-dragon paragon, you still end up with a good score. The story was interesting, though with half-black dragon I was hoping Yul’uth-ca would end up being the villain of the story.

Power: 4.0 You certainly manage to do the natural attacks right. Dragon disciple (virtue of flight) is something that blends well with VoP, which you and others did. Still a good move, especially when coupled with your incredible natural attack routine. You don’t get a higher score for two reasons: first, your build is a bit weaker than average at lower levels, and second, against foes that can’t be grappled (surprisingly common at high levels) your power falls off considerably.

Elegance: 4.0 You don’t take the LA penalty for the octopus (either that or you buy it off, either of which is a heavy penalty) corrected. You also jump around a lot; the barbarian levels especially stick out. Overall the build seems smashed together, hurting an otherwise fun build.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.0 Take all ten levels, but besides flight and qualifying for half-dragon paragon, I don’t see what you’re really getting out of it. Very little spell-casting, you’re not even sure how the claws work, and I don’t see any love for the breath weapon. Just about anything else would have worked better for your purposes.

Katria: 7.5

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Originality: 2.0 Battle dancer and dragon devotee were both used this round, as was elf. The only original part of the build was sword of righteousness, but that was enough for more than a below average score.

Power: 2.0 Since you didn’t breakdown exactly what your build does, I’m forced to infer from the tables you provided, and what I see is your build doesn’t do much. It went VoP, as did several other builds, which synergizes well with the SI, but other than that I don’t see much. You’re not really a spellcaster, you’re OK at melee combat but not great, and you don’t do anything with your breath weapon. In addition, several of the feats (improved toughness, iron will, deflect arrows) are significantly subpar.

Elegance: 2.0 You’re all over the place in this one. Several PrC are mashed together, and your feats were selected at seeming random. I don’t know where your build is going and your elegance is deducted accordingly.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5 You take all ten levels, but that’s the only bump you get. There’s nothing here that suggests the SI, and what you do get you don’t do anything with. The breath weapon is not optimized, you don’t move beyond 1st level spells, and you don’t even note your natural attacks in the stat block.

Son of Edi: 10.0

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Originality: 3.0 Plenty of sorcerer to go around this time, though Neanderthal and wonderworker were unique. Builds focusing on the breath weapon were in the minority, so points there. Overall, average.

Power: 4.0 The build as written takes the breath weapon and jakes it up to 11 (how you get there is elegance). You’re cranking out a huge number of breath attacks each round, throwing down an obscene amount of damage. There’s 2 things holding this build back: first, you don’t really ramp up to the midway point of the build when you get quicken breath. And second, anything immune to electricity (common at later levels) laughs at your attempts to hurt it.

Elegance: 1.0 Come on, what did you expect? While you are correct that your quicken breath tactic is RAW, no sane DM would ever allow it at their table. That means your entire build is based on something that would not fly at just about any table. I can’t give you a better score when your one trick is on that shaky of ground.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.0 While it fits thematically, and you take all ten levels, dragon disciple feels incredibly tacked on and kind of pointless. You even point out that one of the things it provides is extra 3rd level spell slots. You know what else provides extra spell slots? More sorcerer, which you would have been better off taking instead of the SI.

Leofriadinesal: 13.5

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Originality: 4.0 The only orc and the only warblade this round. Small penalty for duskblade, but otherwise a fairly original build. Plus anyone who puts down great-spoon for proficiency deserves a bonus in my book.

Power: 4.0 Given the benchmark for this contest (weak gish) you manage to do quite a bit better. Your breath weapon trick gives you a nice battlefield control option, and your maneuvers give you plenty of extra oomph when you need it. The build could have used a way to better incorporate spells, as by level 8 or so ray of enfeeblement is hardly doing anything.

Elegance: 3.5 The opening levels of duskblade are obviously taken for entrance to the SI, and they feel that way. It starts your build off on a bad note, and it doesn’t quite shake it throughout.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.0 You take all ten levels and make good use of the breath weapon. However, for your purposes, you probably would have been better off with fewer DD levels and more warblade levels, showing how unessential the SI was to the build.

Bowser: 5.5

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Originality: 1.0 You took several classes (fighter, stalwart sorcerer) that many others used, and you copied an existing, popular character.

Power: 2.0 That said, I’m not exactly sure what you’re going for with this build. You take the weapon focus/specialization line, which is very subpar. You take a couple of charging feats, but aren’t really a charger. You can cast spells but don’t list spells known or more than a handful of common spells you cast. And even worse, there’s no level breakdown provided, so I’m not sure what exactly you’re going for at each level.

Elegance: 1.0 This category would be a 0 if it was allowed. You use gestalt, which is prohibited and loses you huge points. In addition, you seem to assume you’ll have WBL at every level, and the ability to customize your magic items to a level that many campaigns do not allow.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5 You get a small bump for taking all ten levels, but that’s it. You don’t really utilize any of the abilities, and you even put-down the ability to fly, one of the SI’s best abilities.

Sam: 17.0

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Originality: 4.5 Surprised we didn’t see more bard or warforged this time around; maybe everyone else thought it would be too obvious. Their loss is your gain. The only reason this isn’t a 5.0 is that many other builds used VoP.

Power: 4.0 Great blending of abilities, from being social skills to combat power. The combination of dragon disciple and dragon fire inspiration was something I thought there’d be more of, seeing as how good it is (and you wisely upgraded it to sonic damage). The ability to enhance yourself and others to high degrees results in a nice power score, especially topped off with warchanter (one of my favorite PrC). The only reason you don’t get a better score is you start off weak at low levels, really ramping up around 15, and you took weapon focus (slam) instead of the second slam feat, a remarkably bad trade-off in a natural attack build (I know you take it later, but you could have put it in at level 9).

Elegance: 4.5 Nice job all around; all of the abilities flow well from one to another, and the combination of bard and warchanter, along with dragonfire inspiration come together nicely. The only reason this isn’t a 5.0 is because I can’t imagine how a warforged is growing wings (I know it’s perfectly legal, but this is elegance).

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.0 Take all ten levels, and put the abilities to use nicely. Dragon Disciple really lets VoP shine, despite its mechanical drawbacks. You crank up a nice melee/skill build thanks to the SI. You could have done better optimizing the breath weapon; otherwise a great build.

Tyrus Blackscale: 6.5

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Originality: 2.0 Sorcerer got a lot of love this round, and half-dragon paragon saw action too. Generic warrior was not used by anyone else, and for good reason (see elegance). Nothing else original about the build.

Power: 2.0 I’m not really seeing what it is this build does. Ok, you use a spike chain to trip, but so what? That’s useful at low levels, but you don’t really put anything else into it. Cleave is ok, but great cleave is a waste, as are weapon focus and (imho) hover. So, you can fly around, hover, and whack things with your chain? Not overly impressive. Without a level breakdown I can’t be sure there isn’t something I missed, but I don’t think so.

Elegance: 1.0 Using the generic classes are prohibited, resulting in a huge deduction overall. Besides that, the level of sorcerer is also just kind of hanging out by itself, not really doing anything except qualifying you for the SI, which…

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5 You don’t seem to have a reason to take. Sure, it gives you wings and boosts your strength, but you could have done that in any number of ways. There’s really nothing in this build that recommends dragon disciple, and you only get a bump for taking all ten levels.

Samantha: 16.0

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Originality: 4.0 Spirit Shaman and swanmay were unique entries into the competition, but like many others you went with VoP and a natural attack build, so a good, but not great, score.

Power: 4.5 You’ve got a lot going on in this build, which helps you out in the versatility department. Being able to change up the spells known is a great mechanic and helps you be prepared for whatever you might face, and gives you incredible diversity compared to the other spontaneous casters this round. Your spells and the build make you a melee monster, and your spells help fill in the utility gaps. And I agree, summoning a unicorn for healing is classy.

Elegance: 4.0 Great flow throughout the build, and great combination of classes to fit together. My only real grip is that dragon disciple seems kind of arbitrary; you have a great nature theme going, then *boom* out of nowhere dragon. Otherwise the flow of levels was broken up a bit, but good effort.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5 Nice utilization of the various abilities of the SI. You do make an effort to power up your breath weapon, though your natural attacks are rendered a bit redundant thanks to your spells. The only real issue is that while you use the SI, I don’t really see why it was taken at all. It doesn’t really give you anything you don’t already have. You’d probably just be better off with more spirit shaman, frankly.

Phaen bol Andras: 11.5

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Originality: 2.0 I totally wanted to give a better score to the tiger, but I couldn’t. Sorcerer was especially overplayed this round, and dragon samurai was also used.

Power: 3.5 You’ve got melee combat sorted out starting right at level 3, which is something many other builds did not do. That said, you kind of stay there while other build are moving on to bigger and better things. If smashing it in the face doesn’t work, you’re kind of out of options.

Elegance: 2.0 You keep things simple, which is good, and the theme flows pretty well throughout. But you use LA buyoff, and I always penalize big for this, as many tables do not allow it.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.0 Like others, you make an effort to utilize everything this build offers. The only real problem is that thanks to your race, the natural weapons are redundant, negating one of the SI’s key bonuses.

Dracotaur: 14.0

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Originality: 3.0 Centaur was fun, and one of my favorite races, but both barbarian and dragon devotee saw action elsewhere. Overall just average.

Power: 3.5 What you do (melee) you do really well, but you run into the problem several other builds saw; if you can’t punch it in the face, you can’t do much. Granted, between your obscene strength and multiple natural attacks, you can punch things in the face really well, but this category includes versatility as well as straight combat power.

Elegance: 3.5 You’ve got this level of barbarian that is really vital to your build, just kind of hanging out there. It doesn’t really seem to fit with everything else, and since it starts off you class levels it just jars everything after it.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.0 Like many, you took advantage of many of the things the SI had to offer, including optimizing your breath weapon. The only downside is you really kind of left spellcasting at the wayside, going no higher than first level spells.

Draco Drago: 12.0

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Originality: 2.0 Battle dancer was different (though used elsewhere), as was thayan gladiator, but every other element of your build, from daelkyr to assassin to soul eater saw action in other builds. Not to mention another build also went to negative energy route, same as you.

Power: 4.0 As previously mentioned, the negative level route is well known because it works. You’ve got lots of negative levels going on, from your claws to your breath weapon, putting a lot of hurt down in a hurry. As the other soul eater, you don’t have an answer when an opponent is energy drain immune, so this score isn’t higher.

Elegance: 2.0 You’re all over the place when it comes to this build. The single level of assassin, taken just to qualify for the SI, stands really out of place (especially in a gladiator build). You also only take only one level of soul eater, a notoriously dipable class, so points lost there.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.0 You do a good job utilizing the various SI abilities, notably natural attacks, breath weapon, and wings. The only real minus here is that you don’t really do anything with the spellcasting.

Assassin: 10.0

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Originality: 3.5 You were the only rogue and monk this round, a combination I thought we’d see more of, but you lose points on the assassin and natural attack focused build. Slightly better than average.

Power: 2.5 Overall, you’re slightly below average in the power department. You sneak attack is poor (though you do augment it with craven and invisible fist) and your death attack is basically useless. Your spells are too low of a level to be of much use, and you don’t do anything with your breath weapon. The build is slightly better than a straight monk, but given the standard of this contest, you fall a bit short.

Elegance: 2.0 I’ve got a couple problems with this build in the elegance department. The biggest is taking craven on a half-dragon. It just seems to me that a creature that’s supposed to inspire fear (not to mention training with assassin monks!) isn’t supposed to be cowardly. In addition, your class selection seems all over the place and has no flow to the build.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.0 You take all ten levels, and put some effort into the natural attacks and improving your flight, but there’s not much here that augments what you’re already doing. You’d be much better off with some sort of class that provides more skills and sneak attack. You’d actually probably be better off with a dragon disciple dip, then more assassin, so a low score here.

[dantiesilva]

I think I can clear up some of the problems the judges are having.

For salomon he has draconic power which boosts his spellcasting level by one. Practiced spell caster adding another 4 for a total of 5 just from feats. Abruant champion adds another 5 for a total of 15 levels of spellcasting. At which level you gain access to 7th level spells. Without out using practiced spell caster that is 5th level spells.

Avi seems to look like he maximed his bonus from Illumani from his sigils to a bonus of +3 to caster level. Practiced spellcaster again for the +4 for a total of +7 caster levels. for a total of 9 because of the two from the talon of tiamat. Add in warmage levels which there are 5 of for level 14 casting. Making 7th level casting. Even I know that cheese of using Illumani.

For The necromancer guy, he also has multiattack if the judges look. Multi attack is specific for just what the build does. I'm assuming the TWF was for early on getting touch attack as well as normal attack.



And the complaints about Avi and his breath weapon being useless, he had like four or five of them I am going to have to differ with the judges on that. Completely agree though that spells should have been more layed out. Even a level breakdown every five levels would have been good.

[ThiagoMartell]

For salomon he has draconic power which boosts his spellcasting level by one. Practiced spell caster adding another 4 for a total of 5 just from feats. Abruant champion adds another 5 for a total of 15 levels of spellcasting. At which level you gain access to 7th level spells. Without out using practiced spell caster that is 5th level spells.

None of those abilities improve your spellcasting level. They add to caster level. It means you cast more powerful spells, not that you gain higher level spells.
EDIT: Abjurant Champion does add 5 levels of spellcasting, but Martial Arcanist does not.

Avi seems to look like he maximed his bonus from Illumani from his sigils to a bonus of +3 to caster level. Practiced spellcaster again for the +4 for a total of +7 caster levels. for a total of 9 because of the two from the talon of tiamat. Add in warmage levels which there are 5 of for level 14 casting. Making 7th level casting. Even I know that cheese of using Illumani.

Again, caster level =/= spellcasting level.

[dantiesilva]

Looks like my DMs all do it wrong then. In that case I withdraw my defense for those builds.

[Amphetryon]

Question for Z3ro re: Yul’uth-ca, from the creator:

"You don’t take the LA penalty for the octopus (either that or you buy it off, either of which is a heavy penalty)."

Antropomorphic Giant Octopus does not have a Level Adjustment. There was no buy off, and I believe that the judge is simply incorrect in this instance.

[Z3ro]

Question for Z3ro re: Yul’uth-ca, from the creator:

My mistake; I thought octupus had LA. Will adjust score accordingly.

[Amphetryon]

My mistake; I thought octupus had LA. Will adjust score accordingly.

Oddly, the non-giant form does. It's an easy enough oversight to make, especially given the huge number of entries.

[Menteith]

Oddly, the non-giant form does. It's an easy enough oversight to make, especially given the huge number of entries.

I honestly think that they put the wrong name on each of the respective Antropomorphics. I'm looking at the chart right now, and it's weird - the Giant Octopus has less RHD, LA, Strength, Constitution, and a higher Dex than the regular Octopus.

Thanks to Z3ro and ThiagoMartell for some crazy fast speed judging. You guys are awesome!

[Amphetryon]

I honestly think that they put the wrong name on each of the respective Antropomorphics. I'm looking at the chart right now, and it's weird - the Giant Octopus has less RHD, LA, Strength, Constitution, and a higher Dex than the regular Octopus.

Thanks to Z3ro and ThiagoMartell for some crazy fast speed judging. You guys are awesome!

You think WotC made a mistake with one of their charts? Heresy!

[dextercorvia]

You think WotC made a mistake with one of their charts? Heresy!

These anthropomorphic animals were sized up or down to medium, as necessary. This results in creatures where the humanoid made from a larger animal has worse stats than one made from a smaller animal. They then approximated LA based on total stat adjustments.

[OMG PONIES]

So we have not one, but two ridiculously awesome judges who are each owed one entire Internet for their speed. I'll get this out of the way before I even start reading their comments:

Final(?) Tallies After Two Freakin' Sweet Judges
{table=head]ENTRY|MEDAL|TOTAL|AVERAGE
Sam|GOLD|33.5|4.1875
Dracotaur|SILVER|31.5|3.9375
Samantha|BRONZE|30|3.75
Phaen bol Andras|Fourth|29.5|3.6875
Jenny|Fourth|29.5|3.6875
Yul'uth-ca|Sixth|28.5|3.5625
Leofriadinesal|Seventh|27.5|3.4375
Iujaku|Eighth|26.5|3.3125
Balaur|Ninth|25.5|3.1875
Draco Drago|Tenth|24.5|3.0625
Orvalo|Eleventh|23|2.875
Asheel|Eleventh|23|2.875
Tael Yerenor|Eleventh|23|2.875
Zordon Blue|Fourteenth|22.5|2.8125
Assassin|Fifteenth|21.5|2.6875
Avi|Sixteenth|21|2.625
Xiroth Striving|Seventeenth|20|2.5
Katria|Seventeenth|20|2.5
Wodan Silverblood|Nineteenth|19.5|2.4375
Tyrus Blackscale|Twentieth|18|2.25
Son of Edi|Twenty-First|17.5|2.1875
Salomon|Twenty-Second|14.5|1.8125
Bowser|Twenty-Third|10.5|1.3125[/table]

This table has not yet been reviewed for arithmetic, but it seems like the categorical scores for each entry matched the total each judge gave.