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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default The Grappler {Please Critque}

    Grappler
    Level BAB Fort Ref Will AC Bonus Special Grapple Damage Presences
    1st +1 +2 +0 +0 +0 Adept Grappling, AC bonus, Grapple Damage, Endurance Condintioning, Grappler's Skill, Combat Bluff 1d4 2/+1
    2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 +1 Agile Grappler, Foil Charge 2/+1
    3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 +1 Stunning Strike, Champion of the Ring 1d6 3/+1
    4th +4 +4 +1 +1 +1 Exceptional Leverage, Iron Body 3/+1
    5th +5 +4 +1 +1 +2 Joint Pop, Expert Tumbler 1d8 3/+2
    6th +6 +5 +2 +2 +2 Whirling Dodge 4/+2
    7th +7 +5 +2 +2 +2 Tremor Sense 1d10 4/+2
    8th +8 +6 +2 +2 +3 Hustle 4/+2
    9th +9 +6 +3 +3 +3 Bone Crack, Steel Jaw 2d6 5/+2
    10th +10 +7 +3 +3 +3 Defensive Roll, Unhibitive Maneuver 5/+3
    11th +11 +7 +3 +3 +4 Tendon Rip 2d8 5/+3
    12th +12 +8 +4 +4 +4 Fast Movement 6/+3
    13th +13 +8 +4 +4 +4 Kick up Dirt 2d10 6/+3
    14th +14 +9 +4 +4 +5 Tumbling Defense 7/+4
    15th +15 +9 +5 +5 +5 Adroit Posture 4d6 7/+4
    16th +16 +10 +5 +5 +5 7/+4
    17th +17 +10 +5 +5 +6 2d10+1d8 8/+4
    18th +18 +11 +6 +6 +6 Physical Endurance 8/+5
    19th +19 +11 +6 +6 +6 4d8 8/+5
    20th +20 +12 +6 +6 +7 Wrestler Transcendant 9/+5
    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: 1d10

    Class Skills:
    Class Skills
    The Grappler's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency

    Grapplers are proficient in Clubs, Unarmed Strikes, Light Maces, Gauntlets, Dagger, short- and Long- spears, Javelins, and Slings
    Grapplers are not proficient with any armor or shields
    Special Abilities


    Endurance Conditioning {Ex}: The Grappler gains either the Great fortitude or Endurance feat. At 2nd level the Grappler gains which ever one of these he did not chose previously.

    AC Bonus: When unarmored and unencumbered the Grappler gains a bonus to AC according to the above table. These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the Grappler is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

    Grapple Damage: When a Grappler is grappling an opponent, he is able to cause more damage than an ordinary person would, as shown on Table : Grappler, in addition the Grappler adds 1 1/2 his Strength modifer to the damage.. This damage may be either lethal or nonlethal, at the Grappler’s discretion. This increased damage applies only during a grapple, and not with ordinary unarmed strikes. A grapple must be maintain for a round in order for the damage to be dealt.

    Adept Grappling: Starting at 1st level, a Grappler wearing no armor, and unencumbered gains a +1 bonus an all Grapple Checks and opposed Dexterity, or Strength checks. This bonus increases by +1 at 5th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5

    Grappler's Skill: At 1st level, a Grappler gains either the feat Improved Unarmed Strike or Improved Grapple as bonus feats even if the prerequisites are not fulfilled. At 3rd Level the Grappler gains which ever one of these he did not chose previously.

    Combat Bluff {Ex}: A Grappler exlusively uses Bluff to Feint in combat and therefore the only use of the Bluff skill is to perform a Feint in combat is allowed to the Grappler.

    Presence {Ex}: A Grappler exerts an effect on allies or enemies in his vicinity. He can learn to produce different effects, or Presences, over the course of his career. The Grappler may only project one presnece at a time.

    Projecting a presence is a swift action. The presence remains in effect until the Grappler uses a free action to dismiss it or activates another. A Grappler can have a presnece active continually; thus, one can be in effect at the start of a combat encounter even before the Grappler takes his first turn.


    Unless otherwise noted, a Grappler's presence affects all allies or enemies within 60 feet (including himself) who can see the Grappler. A Grappler's Presnece is dismissed if he is dazed, unconscious, stunned, paralyzed, frightened, or panicked.

    A Grappler begins play knowing two presences of his choice. As his Grappler level increases, he gains access to new ones.

    All bonuses granted by a Grappler's presences are perfection bonuses that do not stack with each other.

    Agile Grappler {Ex}: Beginning at 2nd level, while grappling an opponent, a Grappler does not lose his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against opponents he is not grappling. However, if pinned, he loses his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, in addition to the usual penalties.

    Foil Charge {Ex}: When the target of a charge attack a Grappler can make a Grapple check with a DC equal to the opponents attack roll. If this check succeeds the opponent is flung 5 feet in any direction the Grappler chooses, increasing by an additional 5 feet for every 5 points the Grapple check succeeded by.

    Stunning Strike {Ex}: At 3rd level, a Grappler who is grappling an opponent may attempt a stunning strike. This requires an opposed grapple check made in place of an attack. If successful, the Grappler inflicts damage as usual, and forces the foe to make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the
    Grappler's class level + Strength modifier). A defender who fails the saving throw is stunned for one round. The Grappler can use this ability once per day, gaining an additional use every 3rd Grappler level after level 3. A grappler may only make one attempt at a stunning strike per round.

    Champion of the Ring {Ex}: At 3rd level, the Grappler gains a +2 competence bonus to unarmed strike attack rolls. In addition he deals an extra point of damage for every Grappler level unarmed strikes.

    Exceptional Leverage {Ex}: As the Grappler advances in his art, he becomes capable of controlling an opponent’s movements by controlling only a single limb. At 4th level, the Grappler may ignore up to one size category of his opponent’s size modifier during grapple checks. Thus, a Huge giant wrestling a Grappler would be treated as Large, although only for purposes
    of grapple checks. At 13th level, the Grappler can ignore up to two size categories of difference. This ability cannot reduce an opponent’s effective size category below that of the Grappler. Thus, a halfling with 13 levels of Grappler could reduce a Large ogre’s effective size category to Small for purposes of grapple checks, but he could not reduce a Medium opponent’s effective size category to Tiny.

    Iron Body {Ex}: At 4th level, a Grappler's body becomes tougher, and more durable than it once was. Being able to shrug off more punishment than most, the Grappler gains Damage Reduction 1/-. This Damage Reduction increases by 1 every 4 levels thereafter to a maximum of 5/-.

    Joint Pop (Ex): At 5th level, when the Grappler is grappling an opponent, he may attempt a joint pop as an action in place of an attack. The Grappler must make an opposed grapple check; success indicates that he deals damage as if choosing the “damage your opponent” option. In addition, the opponent must make a Fortitude save at a DC equal to the hit points of damage dealt, or take 1d4 points of temporary Dexterity
    damage, plus an additional amount equal to every 4th Grappler level. The Grappler may attempt a joint pop maneuver a number of times per day equal to his levels in the Grappler class. Failure to win the opposed grapple check ruins the attempt, and counts as one of the uses for the day. The Grappler may only make one attempt at an ability-damage maneuver per round.

    Expert Tumbler {Ex}: A 5th level the Grappler gains a +1 bonus to his tumble attempts, this bonus increases by 1 for every 5th level afterwards.

    Whirling Dodge {Ex}: At 6th level the Grappler's bonus from the Dodge Feat, if he has the feat, now applies to all enemies.

    Tremor Sense {Ex}: At 7th level a Grappler gaisn Tremor Sense 10' this increases to 20 feet at 14th level.

    Hustle {Ex}: At 8th level a Grappler can perform as though under the effects of the Haste spell for 5 rounds. this ability may be used a number of times equal to 1 + the Grappler's Constitution modifier

    Bone Crack (Ex): At 9th level, when the Grappler is grappling an opponent, he may attempt a bone crack as an action in place of an attack. The Grappler must make an opposed grapple check; success indicates that he deals damage as if choosing the “damage your opponent” option. In addition, the opponent must make a Fortitude save at a DC equal to the hit points of damage dealt, or take 1d4 points of temporary Constitution damage, plus an additional amount equal to every 4th Grappler level. The Grappler may attempt a bone crack maneuver a number of times per day equal to his levels in the Grappler class. Failure to win the opposed grapple check ruins the attempt, and counts as one of the uses for the day. The Grappler may only make one attempt at an ability-damage
    maneuver per round.

    Steel Jaw {Ex}: A Grappler can take blows that would knock out a man. At level 9, a Grappler gains his Con modifier as a bonus to AC, this applies when flat-footed

    Defensive Roll {Ex}: At 10th level a Grappler can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than he otherwise would. Once per day per point of Constitution Modifiier (though not more than once in any sinlge round), when he would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the Grappler can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the Grappler must attempt a Reflex Saving throw (modified with any bonuses to Grappling the Grappler has, such as Adept Grappling) (DC = 10+ 1/2damage dealt). If the save succeeds, he takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, he takes full damage. He must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute his defensive roll—if he is denied his Dexterity bonus to AC, he can’t use this ability.

    Unhibitive Maneuver {Ex}: The Grappler is no longer impededed by ways to slow his movement such as such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. In addition the grappler automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin, as long as the opponent has 2 or less Base Attack Bonus than the Grappler.

    Tendon Rip {Ex}: At 11th level, when the Grappler is grappling an opponent, he may attempt a tendon rip as an action in place of an attack. The Grappler must make an opposed grapple check; success indicates that he deals damage as if choosing the “damage your opponent” option. In addition, the opponent must make a Fortitude save at a DC equal to the hit points of damage dealt, or take 1d4 points of temporary Strength damage, plus an additional amount equal to every 4th Grappler level. The Grappler may attempt a tendon rip maneuver a number of times per day equal to his levels in the Grappler class. Failure to win the opposed grapple check ruins the attempt, and counts as one of the uses for the day. The Grappler may only make one attempt at an ability-damage maneuver per round.

    Fast Movement {Ex}: The Grappler gains a +10 feet speed increase to his base movement speed.

    Kick Up Dirt {Ex}: The Grappler movements and actions manage to stir up a cloud fo dust, dirt, debri and other such objects in a fight, giving opponents a 20% miss chance againts him.

    Tumbling Defense {Ex}: For every 5 ranks a Grappler possesses in the tumble skill, they gain a +1 Dodge bonus to AC.

    Adroit Posture {Ex}: At 15th level the Grappler gains the use of an additional Immediate Action a round.

    Physical Endurance {Ex}: At 18th Level a Grappler becomes immune to nonlethal damage from any weapon, physical attack, spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability. As well as becomming immune to the Exhausted, Fatigued, and Dazed conditions.

    Wrestler Transcendant {Ex}: At 20th level, the Grappler is essentially a living battle-god. When the Grappler first starts an encounter, the rush of combat is so overwhelming and filled with such power that he benefits from three of the following powers for the duration of the encounter (roll randomly):
    Awe: The Grappler can as a free action make an Intimidate Check (with a +10 bonus) all foes who are affected are staggered for 1 round plus an additional round for every 5th point the foe failed the opposed check by.
    Endurance: The Grappler receives a +6 bonus to Constitution.
    Pugilist: Each blow from an unarmed strike or Grapple deals an extra 4d4 damage
    Strength: The Grappler recieves a +6 bonus to Strength
    Grace: A Grappler receives a +6 bonus to Dexterity.
    Splendor: The Grappler gains 40 Temprary HP as well as +1 to all saves
    Good Fortune: The Grappler gains the use of 3 re-rolls of either his Attack, ability check, skill check, or saving throw.
    Toughened Skin: The Grappler receives a +5 natural armor bonus.

    Presences
    Bloodthirst: Bonus on weapon damage rolls equal to twice the presence bonus against creatures that have taken damage in the past round. A character can only benefit from this presence once a round.
    Bolster: Bonus on spell damage equal to presnece bonus. A character can only benefit from this presence once a round.
    Contention: Bonus on opposed checks equal to presence bonus.
    Dauntless: Penalty to enemies AC equal to presnce bonus.
    Focus: A bonus to saves against Mind-affecting spells equal to Presence bonus.
    Inpulsive: A bonus to Initiative as well as penalties to saves and attack to enemies.
    Inspire Charisma: Bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks equal to 2+ the Grappler's presence bonus.
    Inspire Constitution: Bonus on Constitution checks and Constitution-based skill checks equal to 2+ the Grappler's presence bonus.
    Inspire Dexterity: Bonus on Dexterity checks, Dexterity-based skill checks, and initiative checks equal to 2+ the Grappler's presence bonus.
    Inspire Intelligence: Bonus on Intelligence checks and Intelligence-based skill checks equal to 2+ the Grappler's presence bonus.
    Inspire Strength: Bonus on Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks equal to 2+ the Grappler's presence bonus.
    Inspire Wisdom: Bonus on Wisdom checks and Wisdom-based skill checks equal to 2+ the Grappler's presence bonus.
    Over the Top: A number of luck points equal to 2+ his presence bonus. At any time an ally may use one of these to re-roll a skill check, attack roll, or saving throw. Once used up these points are gone untill the Grappler has had a chance to rest for 10 minutes. For 1 minute after the the use of the last luck point the Grappler may not enact another presence.
    Triumph: Allies heal hit points equal to the presence bonus after successfully damaging an enemy.
    Vigilant: Bonus to Spot, Listen as well as Initiative checks equal to presence bonus.
    Vivacious: Bonus on spells that restore hit point damage cast on allies within his presences equal to twice the presence bonus.
    Yielding: Penalty to enemies attack and damage equal to presence bonus (double in the case of damage).

    Spoiler
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    Hey everybody!, this is my first draft on a Grapple focused character, I made this becuase I am in a greek/roman oriented campaign and well, lets admit it the monk as in in the book really does not fit with anceint greeck or roman types. At first i was liek 'well i'll just toss make the monk more about grabbing and hurting peeps and add ins ome more greek and roman eqsue abilities. then I relaized that i had changed the class enough to make a whole new one. Im pretty happy with what I have so far, but as you can see the class is only about half done. I do not really know what to do from level 12 to 20 and I especially need a really swwet capstone ability.
    SUPER IMPORTANT STUFFS
    Spoiler
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    I want this to be 'Tier' 3 so cool abilties that you cna think of to net me that will be MUCH appreciated
    Last edited by ngilop; 2014-05-25 at 07:16 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    Dunno if it will be any help, but you may wanna check out my Open Palm (check my sig). It's got a whole bunch of material if you wanna scavenge stuff from it.

    As it currently stands, this is tier 5 stuff, this needs far more mobility, utility and options before it becomes otherwise. At present, there's next to no choice in abilities, so every grappler will look alike on paper, but grappling is notoriously hard to bump up to par so expect a fair bit of work and innovation if you wanna hit tier 3!
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
    Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
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    Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    well, i mean a grappler is a grappler.. so I am sort of at a loss to understand why the look alike on paper bit is a turn off.

    and I think i might have come up with some new ideas so I will put those in the table above!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    Base classes should offer some diversity and range of build options, maybe not many, but still some. All these guys will be almost identical. This approach works better with PrCs on the whole, as they are meant to allow specific archetype builds. Base classes should allow some choice is all I'm saying.

    You got lots of dead levels there, plenty enough to add in some choices for out-of-combat utility. A speed increase would be nice, with perhaps some charging, jumping and immunity options thrown in for good measure. They also need some sort of unarmed damage type progression to help defeat DR (see the Monk's magic->lawful->adamantine stuff on Ki Strike) if they are to stay relevant past about 8th level.

    Free skill tricks, feats (including the monk list, diehard and a couple of others cherry-picked for thematic relevance) and utility options would be a simple way forward, the bare-bones here are good, but the class needs some serious filling out and scaling ability choices are lacking if you want a well-rounded class which people will want to play.
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
    Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
    World Warper
    Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    The Crash Man's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    The class, as it stands now, is incredibly front loaded. Somebody could grab the first 5 levels, branch out, and be no worse for the wear. Level 20, which should be a huge, dramatic, milestone, is as dead a level as Rogue 20. And that's just saddening.

    You have a lot of interesting abilities, but they're very densely packed near the front and sparsely packed near the end. Add more mobility and versatility, as well as better placing of abilities, and you can take this class' potential to whole new levels.
    Epic Crashatar by the amazing Crimmy!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    Ok, i added in some new abilties and some skills that i relaized i left out (like tumble and intimidate...)

    is my capstone ability good?

    also I am thinking that since this is a greek/roman styles wrelster that I should maybe add in an ability called Pankration and that is where i can ive 3 or 4 different abilites gained depedning on what you focus upon.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    The Grapple Damage should be specified to be for a medium creature. Also, the monk is considered a very weak class, so you should bump their grappling damage up to at least what the monk can do. 2d10+1d8 is an odd damage method BTW, but I am in no position to complain about odd mechanics really.

    You are missing the table for the AC bonus.

    Combat bluff is a penalty to the class, and thus should happen at first level and should be a penalty to bluff checks, not a bonus to opposed checks. You also have an unnecessary double word ("allowed") I think. In addition, if you feel like getting fancy with it, you COULD say that any skill-points from Grappler put into Bluff don't count towards anything but feinting in combat.


    You get 4 feats at first level. I would actually drop Improved Unarmed Strike, but say that you qualify as having it for the purposes of feats(or at least feats that also have Improved Grapple as a prerequisite?) and PrCs. I would delay IUS until 2nd level, and but say that you qualify as having it at first level for purposes of feat pre-requisites (NOT for PrCs). Also, to draw from something that motionmatrix told me about my grace-gift class ":
    Quote Originally Posted by motionmatrix View Post
    With the quick look at the table, I would say (recall I have not really read it yet) that you should expand the bonus feats to a list (which can be as short as just the ones that are already there) that the player can pick at their pace.

    Artificial choice is fantastic for players, (from a player perspective) we gobble it up.
    Now I wouldn't necessarily EXPAND the list, but making them pick between Great Fortitude and Endurance at first level, actually get IUS at 2nd, and then give them whichever optional feat they didn't pick at 1st level at 3rd sounds good to me... then again the class is pretty weak at low, so why not? I guess it could get cheesy for qualifying for feats and PrCs though...


    Stunning Strike should specify "an additional use for every three grappler levels beyond 3rd (6th, 9th, 12th, etc)". As it is they actually start off with 2 when they get the ability.

    Ditto for the wording of Champion of the Ring.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    Ok i mulled over your post draco and came to one conclusion.. how do you not see the armor bonus in the table?


    also I fixed the issues you talked about

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    Ok, im been thinking on the whole 'choices of ability things" thats been said to give Grapplers more diversity between each character and have came up with these concepts, different sytles/forms that are based around a specific set of attributes. starting at 3th level and gained every 5 levels afterwards

    Daredevil: teh high flying agility-ified guy, get some mobility focused buffs like uncanny dodge some cool stuff to use with tumble etc

    'Dirty' Fighter: the guy who is less than honorable in a fight gets a modified version of sneak attack (gains a +1 bonus on the attack and deal an extra 1 dmg per Grappler level) other such things like well im not sure LOl

    Brawler: the imma punch you in the face guy gets cool things like starting a grapple as an immediate action to an oppoent who missed him with an attack, gets all the cool comat meuvers feats ( like improved trip, imrpoved grab)

    Ravager: gains rage like a barbarian and ganing temp HP etc


    anyways thats all I got so far, can you guys think of other things to fully develop this idea, or really anything to this class

    I know that i said i wanted 'Tier' 3 but with a focus on unarmed combat and grappling for the win i guess that high 'tier' 4 is prob the best im looking at.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    whew.. its been a while that ive not worked on this.. but I think I got a cool idea and thought about using it. basically its a rip off of the marshal only instead of auras the Grappler has 'presences' which are basically the same thing.

    I hope that this is enough to put the class in true "tier' 3. but i'll accept high 'tier' 4 :)

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Belial_the_Leveler's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    The class is well-built overall and the idea of a grappler that actually works is good but mechanically the class needs to shore-up weaknesses that would outright shut him down. For example, you could insert the following abilities to make the class viable at higher levels;


    Mud-wreslting expert [Ex]
    At X level, the grappler has mastered ways to grab opponents in situations where grappling would be physically impossible, such as when an opponent is coated in mud or oil or even a magical effect to prevent grappling. In such situations the grappler can still grapple his target but the target gets a +4 bonus to any defense against grappling, or his BAB for the puproses of escaping the grapple is equal to his character level, whichever is higher.

    Reckless grappler [Ex]
    At X level, the grappler can still work his art through extreme pain. Taking damage during a grapple attempt does not disrupt the attempt, even if the attack that dealt it would normally disrupt an action. In addition, once the grappler establishes a hold he can keep grappling and dealing damage despite effects that would normally disable him such as stunning, daze or paralysis.


    If all you have is a hammer, don't be lazy; be a blacksmith and start making more stuff.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Grappler {Please Critque}

    there I beefed up the damage done while unarmed for the grappler +6 dmg (at 18) per punch just wasn't enough now its +1/level

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