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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Healing rework (PEACH)

    I've been thinking about how healing should work in the remake I'm working on, and Neoseraphi's post in MacAilbert's thread got me thinking about the matter again...I think I've got some interesting ideas, but I'd like feedback about how these would play out. There are several components, so I'll give them in order from most available to least available. I'll be "translating" them into normal 3.5 rules for easier review and easier use by themselves; if the feedback shows one of the other differences to be relevant, I'll address it there.
    Note that this is meant to replace the Cure and Vigor lines of spells (including the hit-point component of Heal), but not resurrection (that has some changes, but that's a different issue.)

    0. Converted hit dice (CHD): This value is used in a couple of the healing methods; it is equal to 1 CHD for every d4, 1.5 CHD for every d6 or d8 (rounded down) and 2 CHD for every d10 or d12. It's essentially a way to give a fighter easier healing than a wizard without involving hit points and the resulting effects of CON.

    1. Natural healing:
    Spoiler
    Show
    A character heals 1/5 of his total hit points with a full night's rest, twice that with complete bed rest. Nonlethal damage is healed at a rate of 1/5 the character's total hit points each hour. This replaces the normal rules for natural healing.


    2. First Aid:
    Spoiler
    Show
    If you successfully provide first aid to a character (as per the Heal skill; this does provoke an AoO), then ((heal check-15)Xtarget's CHD)/5 points of damage are converted to bound damage. Bound damage is treated the same as nonlethal damage, except that it heals slower (see below) and can cause the disabled (but not dying) condition as though it were lethal damage.
    Bound damage is healed by natural healing and the Healing spells (below) at twice the rate (this doubling is not subject to the normal "two doublings is a tripling" rule), but only after the character has healed all lethal damage. So a character with 100 hit points, 15 lethal damage, and 30 nonlethal damage would, from a single night's rest, heal all 15 lethal damage and 10 nonlethal damage. It is healed by the Heal Wounds line of spells as though it were lethal damage.
    If a character with bound damage takes lethal damage, an equal amount of bound damage is also converted to lethal damage.
    (The intent here is that if someone has a temporary CON bonus, even a noncaster can prevent them from dying when it wears off, though they won't be in very good shape afterward.)


    3. Healing I-IX (spell):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Healing I:
    Transmutation
    Wizard/Sorcerer 1, Druid 1, Cleric 1, Paladin 1
    Casting time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close
    Target: One willing creature
    Duration: 1 hour/level
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    The target heals 1/5 of its maximum hit points (minimum 1) each hour, and 1/5 of its maximum hit points (minimum 1) of nonlethal damage each minute. If the spell is cast by a druid, both amounts are doubled.

    Healing II:
    Wizard/Sorcerer 2, Druid 2, Cleric 2, Paladin 2

    As Healing I, but the the healing is 1/10 of its maximum hit points (minimum 1) every 10 minutes and 1/10 of its maximum hit points of nonlethal damage each round (doubled for a druid.)

    The rest of the line works similarly, with the healing rate (for non-druids) equal to ((2Xspell level-1)Xtarget's maximum HP)/30 every 10 minutes (or each round for nonlethal damage); for level 6 or higher, one-tenth that amount is applied every minute (in the case of lethal damage).

    (These spells are meant to efficiently (and without need for a cleric) heal a character over time.)


    4. Channeling positive energy:
    Spoiler
    Show
    When a cleric channels positive energy, all living characters in the area of effect (or entering the area afterward) gain 1 temporary point of constitution each round they remain in the area, granting extra hit points as normal; the area effect lasts 1 minute per level of the channeler. A character whose temporary constitution exceeds his normal constitution score must make a Will save (DC equal to 20 plus the amount by which his temporary CON exceeds the normal amount) each round or explode (similar to the rules for major positive-dominant planes.) A character who leaves the area, or after the effect ends, loses the temporary CON at a rate of 1 per minute; if he has too much temporary CON, he still must make a Will save once per round until it drops to a safe level.
    This does not actually heal characters, but may allow them to temporarily survive wounds that would otherwise kill them.


    5. Heal Wounds I-IX (spells):
    Spoiler
    Show

    Heal Wounds I:
    Transmutation
    Cleric 1
    Casting time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close
    Target: One willing creature
    Duration: 1 minute/level or until expended
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    The target heals a number of hit points equal to its CHD each round. This spell can heal a total amount of damage up to the target's CHD.

    Heal Wounds II:
    Cleric 2

    As Heal Wounds I, but the spell can heal up to a total of three times the target's CHD (but only up to its CHD each round.)

    Heal Wounds 3-9 work similarly; each extra spell level adds 2 to the multiplier (so Heal Wounds IX can heal up to 17 times the target's CHD.)


    Mass versions of all spells are available at +4 spell level.

    So I'd like input: Is this stronger than the existing system, weaker, or about the same? And will it improve or weaken gameplay?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Healing rework (PEACH)

    I use a similar system in my campaign.

    CHD is essential as it differentiates between low hd (d4) and high hd (d12).

    We have a simpler way though so not have to convert every spell out there.

    Spoiler
    Show
    We have a healing bonus which is added to each die of healing received.

    It is equal to your CON modifier plus your average HD converted as follows:

    d4 = 0, d6 = +1, d8 = +2, d10 = +3, d12 = +4

    So if you are a Wizard with 12 CON and you receive a 3rd CL Cure Moderate Wounds you would heal 2d8+3(CL)+2(Healing Bonus).

    A Barbarian with 18 CON would heal 2d8+3(CL)+16(Healing Bonus)

    I toyed around with fractions of hd but the math-ache some players would have steered me away from it. We have been using the Healing Bonus for some time now and even though it may not be the best way to approach healing it works well.

    We were sick of the 150hp Low AC Barbarian using up all of our healing resources...


    I'd say go ahead and trial your spells. They look good.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2010

    Default Re: Healing rework (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    I've been thinking about how healing should work in the remake I'm working on, and Neoseraphi's post in MacAilbert's thread got me thinking about the matter again...I think I've got some interesting ideas, but I'd like feedback about how these would play out. There are several components, so I'll give them in order from most available to least available. I'll be "translating" them into normal 3.5 rules for easier review and easier use by themselves; if the feedback shows one of the other differences to be relevant, I'll address it there.
    Note that this is meant to replace the Cure and Vigor lines of spells (including the hit-point component of Heal), but not resurrection (that has some changes, but that's a different issue.)

    0. Converted hit dice (CHD): This value is used in a couple of the healing methods; it is equal to 1 CHD for every d4, 1.5 CHD for every d6 or d8 (rounded down) and 2 CHD for every d10 or d12. It's essentially a way to give a fighter easier healing than a wizard without involving hit points and the resulting effects of CON.

    1. Natural healing:
    Spoiler
    Show
    A character heals 1/5 of his total hit points with a full night's rest, twice that with complete bed rest. Nonlethal damage is healed at a rate of 1/5 the character's total hit points each hour. This replaces the normal rules for natural healing.


    2. First Aid:
    Spoiler
    Show
    If you successfully provide first aid to a character (as per the Heal skill; this does provoke an AoO), then ((heal check-15)Xtarget's CHD)/5 points of damage are converted to bound damage. Bound damage is treated the same as nonlethal damage, except that it heals slower (see below) and can cause the disabled (but not dying) condition as though it were lethal damage.
    Bound damage is healed by natural healing and the Healing spells (below) at twice the rate (this doubling is not subject to the normal "two doublings is a tripling" rule), but only after the character has healed all lethal damage. So a character with 100 hit points, 15 lethal damage, and 30 nonlethal damage would, from a single night's rest, heal all 15 lethal damage and 10 nonlethal damage. It is healed by the Heal Wounds line of spells as though it were lethal damage.
    If a character with bound damage takes lethal damage, an equal amount of bound damage is also converted to lethal damage.
    (The intent here is that if someone has a temporary CON bonus, even a noncaster can prevent them from dying when it wears off, though they won't be in very good shape afterward.)


    3. Healing I-IX (spell):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Healing I:
    Transmutation
    Wizard/Sorcerer 1, Druid 1, Cleric 1, Paladin 1
    Casting time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close
    Target: One willing creature
    Duration: 1 hour/level
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    The target heals 1/5 of its maximum hit points (minimum 1) each hour, and 1/5 of its maximum hit points (minimum 1) of nonlethal damage each minute. If the spell is cast by a druid, both amounts are doubled.

    Healing II:
    Wizard/Sorcerer 2, Druid 2, Cleric 2, Paladin 2

    As Healing I, but the the healing is 1/10 of its maximum hit points (minimum 1) every 10 minutes and 1/10 of its maximum hit points of nonlethal damage each round (doubled for a druid.)

    The rest of the line works similarly, with the healing rate (for non-druids) equal to ((2Xspell level-1)Xtarget's maximum HP)/30 every 10 minutes (or each round for nonlethal damage); for level 6 or higher, one-tenth that amount is applied every minute (in the case of lethal damage).

    (These spells are meant to efficiently (and without need for a cleric) heal a character over time.)


    4. Channeling positive energy:
    Spoiler
    Show
    When a cleric channels positive energy, all living characters in the area of effect (or entering the area afterward) gain 1 temporary point of constitution each round they remain in the area, granting extra hit points as normal; the area effect lasts 1 minute per level of the channeler. A character whose temporary constitution exceeds his normal constitution score must make a Will save (DC equal to 20 plus the amount by which his temporary CON exceeds the normal amount) each round or explode (similar to the rules for major positive-dominant planes.) A character who leaves the area, or after the effect ends, loses the temporary CON at a rate of 1 per minute; if he has too much temporary CON, he still must make a Will save once per round until it drops to a safe level.
    This does not actually heal characters, but may allow them to temporarily survive wounds that would otherwise kill them.


    5. Heal Wounds I-IX (spells):
    Spoiler
    Show

    Heal Wounds I:
    Transmutation
    Cleric 1
    Casting time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close
    Target: One willing creature
    Duration: 1 minute/level or until expended
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    The target heals a number of hit points equal to its CHD each round. This spell can heal a total amount of damage up to the target's CHD.

    Heal Wounds II:
    Cleric 2

    As Heal Wounds I, but the spell can heal up to a total of three times the target's CHD (but only up to its CHD each round.)

    Heal Wounds 3-9 work similarly; each extra spell level adds 2 to the multiplier (so Heal Wounds IX can heal up to 17 times the target's CHD.)


    Mass versions of all spells are available at +4 spell level.

    So I'd like input: Is this stronger than the existing system, weaker, or about the same? And will it improve or weaken gameplay?
    I like, but the CHD seems complicated. Why not just heal the characters hit die + 2/caster level? So casting a healing spell on a fighter at 4th level heals 4d10 + 8 (average 30), while healing a Mage instead restores 4d4 + 8 (Avg 18)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Healing rework (PEACH)

    glosz: My system is meant to achieve other goals as well (in particular, the amount of healing needed to go from 0 to full should be constant with level, assuming fixed Constitution), so yours won't do it for me, but glad to have your input.

    wayfare: The reason this uses the complicated CHD is that it's a translation. In the larger system it's actually planned for, those are hit dice (a fighter gets 2 hit dice per level, a ranger or rogue gets 1.5, and a wizard or sorcerer gets 1; they're all d4s), so you don't have the added complication. But CHD is the closest equivalent in normal 3.5.

    Also, I want it to scale with the target's level (as I said, the amount of healing needed to go from 0 to full should be constant with level, assuming fixed Constitution), so it would have to be hit dieXtarget's level (divided by some number, as otherwise it would heal for nearly all the hit points each time, making it very difficult to kill someone without rocket tag tactics.)
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2012-06-26 at 10:50 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Healing rework (PEACH)

    Your system definitely sets a constant healing rate.

    Some players may like this as they will know exactly how long it will take to get their HPs back. Other players like the random element of dice rolling.

    A possible downside is the keeping track of the healing. As it it non-instantaneous players may forget how many HP they have healed (I know my players would).

    Also, do the spells stack? So if I drink 2 Healing II potions I gain 2/10 my max HP per 10 minutes?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Healing rework (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by glosz View Post
    Your system definitely sets a constant healing rate.

    Some players may like this as they will know exactly how long it will take to get their HPs back. Other players like the random element of dice rolling.
    Ah, that point didn't occur to me. (By "constant", I meant that it doesn't change as level does.)

    A possible downside is the keeping track of the healing. As it it non-instantaneous players may forget how many HP they have healed (I know my players would).
    So let the DM keep track.

    Also, do the spells stack? So if I drink 2 Healing II potions I gain 2/10 my max HP per 10 minutes?
    No they do not, just like all buffs. However, it's set up so that if you use a psionics-like system (which I plan to do) using a 5 spellpoint Healing spell is the same as using a 2 spellpoint and 3 spellpoint spell and having them stack; the Heal Wounds spell doesn't have that effect, though, as otherwise it would be too hard to kill someone with healing support.

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