A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gorfnod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    3rd and probably final draft is up. May add some more Shifter abilities but I'm happy with the class overall.

    Shapeshifter

    I think a picture is suppose to go here.

    "I turn in to stuff" - Anonymous Shapeshifter

    Class Skills:
    The shapeshifter's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
    Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier
    Alignment: Any, but often chaotic
    Hit Dice: d10

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|Forms
    1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Shapeshift, Shifter Ability, Natural Familiarity|Alter Self
    2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Shifter Ability|Beast Shape I
    3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1| Arcane Bite, Skillful Shapeshifting +2 (2 Skills) |Monstrous Physique I, Vermin Shape I
    4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Shifter Ability|Elemental Body I
    5th|+5|+4|+4|+1| Shifting Sense +1 (Uncanny Dodge) |Plant Shape I
    6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Shifter Ability|Beast Shape II
    7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+2| Skillful Shapeshifting +3 |Monstrous Physique II, Elemental Body II
    8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+2|Shifter Ability|Plant Shape II
    9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+3| Shifting Sense +2 (Evasion)|Vermin Shape II
    10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+3|Shifter Ability|Beast Shape III, Elemental III
    11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+3| Skillful Shapeshifting +4 (3 Skills) |Monstrous Physique III, Plant Shape III
    12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+4|Shifter Ability | -
    13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+4| Shifting Sense +3 (Improved Uncanny Dodge) |Elemental Body IV, Form of the Dragon I
    14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+4|Shifter Ability|Beast Form IV, Giant Form I
    15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+5| Skillful Shapeshifting +5 |Monstrous Physique IV
    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+5|Shifter Ability |Form of the Dragon II
    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5| Shifting Sense +4 (Improved Evasion)|Giant Form II
    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|Shifter Ability| -
    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6| Skillful Shapeshifting +6 (4 Skills) |Form of the Dragon III
    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|Shifter Ability, True Shapeshifter| - [/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Shapeshifter is proficient with only simple weapons, natural attacks and light armor.

    Shapeshift (SU): At 1st level, a shapeshifter gains the ability to turn himself into any small or Medium humanoid and back again once per day. His options for new forms include all creatures with the humanoid type. This ability functions like the alter self spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per shapeshifter level, or until he changes back. Changing form (to humanoid or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an humanoid the shapeshifter is familiar with.

    A shapeshifter can use this ability an additional time per day per shapeshifter level. At 20th level, he can use shapeshift at will. As a shapeshifter gains in levels, this ability allows the shapeshifter to take on the form of animals, monstrous humanoids, elementals, plants, vermin, magical beasts, dragons, and giants. When assuming a form that as an ability that requires a save, the save DC is 10 + 1/2 the shapeshifter's class level + his Con modifier. Each form expends one daily usage of this ability, regardless of the form taken.

    A shapeshifter gains a language or ability to speak with the creatures that that he shapeshifts in to. In the case of humanoids, this is in addition to languages that he already speaks. In all other cases, this replaces the shapeshifters ability to speak normally, unless he has the Shifter's Speech ability.

    Altough a supernatural ability, where otherwise it would be suppressed (such as within an antimagic field), a shapeshifter can attempt to sustain his form by making a DC 20 Fort save. On a successful save, the Shapeshifter maintains his form for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. He gains a bonus on Fort saves made to maintain his form equal to 1/4 his level.

    Forms (SU): At 2nd level, a shapeshifter can use his shapeshift abilty to change in to a Medium or Small animal. When taking the form of an animal, the shapeshift ability now functions as the spell beast shape I. The shapeshifter's ability to shift in to animals increases in power and functions as beast shape II at level 6 and as beast shape III at level 10.

    At 3rd level, a shapeshifter can use his shapeshift abilty to change in to a Medium or Small monstrous humanoid. When taking the form of a monstrous humanoid, the shapeshift ability now functions as the spell Monstrous Physique I. The shapeshifter's ability to shift in to monstrous humanoids increases in power and functions as Monstrous Physique II at level 7, as Monstrous Physique III at level 11 and as Monstrous Physique IV at level 15.

    Also at 3rd level, a shapeshifter can use his shapeshift abilty to change in to a Medium or Small vermin. When taking the form of a vermin, the shapeshift ability now functions as the spell Vermin Shape I. The shapeshifter's ability to shift in to vermin increases in power and functions as Vermin Shape II at level 9.

    At 4th level, a shapeshifter can use his shapeshift abilty to change in to a Small elemental. When taking the form of an elemental, the shapeshift ability now functions as the spell Elemental Body I. The shapeshifter's ability to shift in to elementals increases in power and functions as Elemental Body II at level 7, as Elemental Body III at level 10 and as Elemental Body IV at level 13.

    At 5th level, a shapeshifter can use his shapeshift abilty to change in to a Medium or Small plant creature. When taking the form of a plant creature, the shapeshift ability now functions as the spell Plant Shape I. The shapeshifter's ability to shift in to plant creatures increases in power and functions as Plant Shape II at level 8 and as Plant Shape III at level 11.

    At 10th level, a shapeshifter can use his shapeshift abilty to change in to a Medium or Small magical beast. When taking the form of a magical beast, the shapeshift ability now functions as the spell Beast Shape III. The shapeshifter's ability to shift in to magical beasts increases in power and functions as Beast Shape IV at level 14.

    At 13th level, a shapeshifter can use his shapeshift abilty to change in to a Medium dragon. When taking the form of a dragon, the shapeshift ability now functions as the spell Form of the Dragon I. The shapeshifter's ability to shift in to dragons increases in power and functions as Form of the Dragon II at level 16 and functions as Form of the Dragon III at level 19.

    At 14th level, a shapeshifter can use his shapeshift abilty to change in to a Large giant. When taking the form of a giant, the shapeshift ability now functions as the spell Giant Form I. The shapeshifter's ability to shift in to giants increases in power and functions as Giant Form II at level 17.

    Shifter Ability:At 1st level a shapeshifter can select one of the Shifter Abilities from the list below. The shapeshifter can select an additional Shifter Ability at 2nd level and every 2 levels after that. Unless otherwise stated, a Shifter Ability is only in effect while Shapeshifted and may only be selected once. At 4th level and every 4 levels after that, a shapeshifter can replace a Shifter Ability that they have already selected with a different one. They can not replace an ability that is being used as the prerequite for another ability.

    Adamantine Slam:All natural attacks made by a shapeshifter are treated as adamantine for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction and ignoring hardness. A shapeshifter must be level 16 before selecting this ability.

    Agile Shift: The shapeshifters’s agile frame gives him a size bonus on all Dexterity checks, Dexterity skill checks, and CMD. The bonus is equal to 1/4 the shapeshifter’s class level. A shapeshifter must be level 6 before selecting this ability.

    Aligned Claws:All natural attacks made by a shapeshifter are treated as either chaotic, for chaotic-aligned shapeshifters, or lawful, for lawful-aligned shapeshifters, for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Neutral shapeshifters may choose between the two but once the decision is made it can not be changed unless the shapeshifter's alignment changes. A shapeshifter must be level 8 before selecting this ability.

    Cold Iron Canine: All natural attacks made by a shapeshifter are treated as cold iron for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. A shapeshifter must be level 4 before selecting this ability.

    Combat Prowess: A shifter may select any combat feat for which he meets the prerequisites. This Shifter Ability applies while both in shapeshift form and normal form.

    Continuous Shifting: A shapeshifter may use the Shapeshift ability 2 additional times per day.

    Disguising Form: The shapeshifter gains a better control over his humanoid forms. Disguising Form functions in all ways as the Shapeshift ability but uses the spell Disguise Self. This is not an illusionary effect and does not count againist the shapeshift's uses/day.

    Fast Shift: The shapeshifter can now shapeshift as a move action. A shapeshifter must be level 6 before selecting this ability.

    Feral Attack: The damage dice for one of the shapeshifter's natural attacks increase by one die step. This ability may be selected multiple times. Each time it is selected it must be applied to a different natural attack type.

    Healing Shift: When shapeshifting or returning to his normal form, a shapeshifter heals a number of hit points equal to his character level + current Constitution modifier. A shapeshifter must be level 4 before selecting this ability.

    Imbue Shift: A shapeshifter with this ability is able to shift a willing target within 30 feet in to any form that he can take. Due to the strain of shifting another creature, the ability only lasts for 10 minutes per shapeshifter level instead of the normal duration. This counts againist his daily number of uses and can only be used a maximum of up to 3/day.

    Multiattack: The shifter gains the Multiattack feat. He does not need to meet the prerequisites.

    Natural Weapon Focus: The shapeshifter gains Weapon Focus feat with any natural attack. This ability may be selected multiple times. Each time it is selected it must be applied to a different natural attack type.

    Powerful Shift: The shapeshifter’s powerful physical frame gives him a size bonus on Strength checks, Strength-based skill checks and CMB. The bonus is equal to 1/4 the shapeshifter’s class level. A shapeshifter must be level 6 before selecting this ability.

    Quick Shift: The shapeshifter can now change shapes as a swift action. A shapeshifter must be level 12 and have Fast Shift before selecting this ability.

    Restorative Shift: When shapeshifting or returning to his normal form, a shapeshifter can remove any one status condition or up to 2d4 points in ability damage or drain. This can be used 1/day per 3/shapeshifter levels. A shapeshifter must be level 8 and have Healing Shift before selecting this ability.

    Shifter's Speech: A shapeshifter retains his ability to speak normally regardless of the form he takes. He may also communicate with other creatures of the form he takes as long as they communicate using natural methods.

    Silvered Fang: All natural attacks made by a shapeshifter are treated as silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. A shapeshifter must be level 4 before selecting this ability.

    Unnatural Form: When using his shapeshift ability, the shapeshifter also gains his choice of one additional ability listed in the spell he used to take the form. For example, when using Beast Shape II to take the form of a brown bear, he may also gain a fly movement speed or any of the other single ability that a brown bear does not possess. He may select a different ability each time he shapeshifts. A shapeshifter must be level 10 before selecting this ability.

    Weapon Finesse: The shapeshifter gains the Weapon Finesse feat. This Shifter Ability applies while both in shapeshift form and normal form.



    Natural Familiarity: A shapeshifter can use Knowledge (nature) to identify dragons and magical beasts in addition to animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants and vermin. When using Knowledge (nature) to identify dragons and magical beasts, these checks are made at a -5 penalty. A shapeshifter generally uses this ability to identify new forms to assume.

    Arcane Bite:At 3rd level, all natural attacks made by a shapeshifter are treated as magical weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.

    Skillful Shapeshifting:At 3rd level, a shapeshifter may choose two skills from the following list, Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Fly (Dex), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str), each time he shifts. He gains a +2 racial bonus to each skill as long as he remains in the selected form. This bonus increases to +3 at level 7, and by an additional +1 every four levels after that to a total of +6 at level 19. He may choose 3 skills to gain this bonus at level 11 and 4 skills at level 19.

    Shifting Sense:At 5th level, a shapeshifter becomes more attuned to the shifting nature of the world around him. This gives the shapeshifter a +1 bonus to initiative that increase every 4 levels to a total of +4 at level 17. In addition Shifting Sense provides the following bonuses.
    At 5th level, the shapeshifter gains the Uncanny Dodge ability.
    At 9th level, the shapeshifter gains the Evasion ability.
    At 13th level, the shapeshifter gains the Improved Uncanny dodge ability.
    At 17th level, the shapeshifter gains the Improved Evasion ability.

    True Shapeshifter (Ex): At 20th level, a shapeshifter gains the shapechanger subtype and all forms of shapeshifting become extraordinary actions. This allows the shapeshifter to maintain his form indefinetly and without checks in areas that would otherwise negate it (such as anti-magic fields). This does not however allow him to use abilities that are still classified as Supernatural abilities (such as a dragon's breath weapon) in these areas.

    In addition a True Shapeshifter is able to change his form as an immediate action in response to another action. This allows a shapeshifter to change into a red dragon to ignore fire damage or a huge giant to stop a creature from swallowing him whole. This is in addition to a creatures normal limit of either one swift or immediate action per round.



    Thanks goes out to LordErebus12, stack, Lemmy, and Heian for all there help with the class.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Heian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Maybe add a shifter ability that confers three more uses per day,
    anyway it seems a real Fun to play :)
    Saints, Sailors and Poets

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gorfnod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Quote Originally Posted by Heian View Post
    Maybe add a shifter ability that confers three more uses per day
    I thought about an ability that added additional shifts per day but figured that it would become useless at level 20 when you gain shapeshift at will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heian View Post
    anyway it seems a real Fun to play :)
    Thanks!!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Heian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    You' re right but you may twist the wording in something like this:

    Continuous Shifting: You may shift three more times per day, when you reach the 20th level you can change this Shifter Ability with another Shifter Ability.

    It' ll remain Ok for RSs while it would be a Must Have for multiclass RSs
    Saints, Sailors and Poets

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    I'd love to play this class.

    Although you should add more Shifter abilities in order to allow for more varied characters, and a few features that didn't revolve around shape-shifiting, just so you can say 'I can do other stuff too!", even it is minor stuff. Like a bonus to identify creatures, or getting some enhanced senses even in the character's original form, etc... Barbarians get more than rage powers and Paladins get more than smite evil.

    Some at-will features would be cool. Like a lesser variation of his shifiting ability. Maybe give him at-will Disguise Self, except it's not illusory, even if it grants no benefit other than the disguise, like the Changelings (from Eberron, not the ones in ARG), that later becomes Alter-Self at will. None of those spells is broken in PF, just good, and they can give him some cool infiltration abilities.

    Let's say...
    - 5th level: Disguise Self at will
    - 10th level: Alter Self at will

    Also, there are a few typos in your post, like
    "At 20th level, all forms of shapeshifting being extraordinary actions."
    Shouldn't it be
    "At 20th level, all forms of shapeshifting become extraordinary abilities."
    And you wrote "Restoritive Shift" instead of "Restorative Shift"
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2012-07-01 at 08:12 PM.
    Homebrew Stuff:

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oldhelwyn Wilds

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    I did a more Druid version of this, focusing on losing oneself in the natural, primal natures, making the Shaper almost more animal than humanoid.

    take a look and feel free to steal ideas, lol.

    Wild Shaper
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2012-07-01 at 08:49 PM.
    Avatar by Gurgleflep

    Spoiler
    Show
    Belladonis Campaign Setting 3.5
    Casting as a Skill

    Learn from your mistakes, 3.5...
    Fill in those dead levels...

    Abrothia's Vision
    Spoiler
    Show


    Welcome to the World Serpent Inn!
    Spoiler
    Show

    - - - IC - - - OOC - - -


    Extended Signature (90% complete)

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gorfnod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Also, there are a few typos in your post
    Thanks, typos are my curse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Heian View Post
    Continuous Shifting: You may shift three more times per day, when you reach the 20th level you can change this Shifter Ability with another Shifter Ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Let's say...
    - 5th level: Disguise Self at will
    - 10th level: Alter Self at will
    I have added Continuous Shifting and Disguising Form as additional Shifter Abilities. I have also added a clause that you may change out a Shifter ability at level 4 and every 4 levels after that. Lets you get rid of these when they become redundant.


    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    I did a more Druid version of this, focusing on losing oneself in the natural, primal natures, making the Shaper almost more animal than humanoid.

    take a look and feel free to steal ideas, lol.
    The class looks pretty cool. I haven't had a chance to really dig in to it but did notice that you went full BAB. That was a decision I wrestled with for a little while. I am gonna look in to it some more and see what I might like... to steal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    I'd love to play this class.
    Thanks alot!!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gorfnod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    So I'm interested in where you guys would place this Tier-wise. My gut tells me Tier 3 but I'm not usually very good at rating my own things.

    Also Lord's post has got me thinking. What do you think about making the class full BAB? I'm a little hesitant because of all of the options you have but I know that medium BAB has killed some classes in the past.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oldhelwyn Wilds

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    im not sure what tiers are... so...
    Avatar by Gurgleflep

    Spoiler
    Show
    Belladonis Campaign Setting 3.5
    Casting as a Skill

    Learn from your mistakes, 3.5...
    Fill in those dead levels...

    Abrothia's Vision
    Spoiler
    Show


    Welcome to the World Serpent Inn!
    Spoiler
    Show

    - - - IC - - - OOC - - -


    Extended Signature (90% complete)

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gorfnod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    D&D 3.5 Tiers

    Here is a Giantitp friendly link. It links to the original posts and has a spoilered version of the Tier information in the 7th or 8th post.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    I'd put it at tier 3. Nothing game breaking, but it should be able to contribute to almost any situation with its variety of forms and powers.

    As for BAB, I don't see it as a big deal either way. You will most likely lean on natural attacks most of the time, and since PF primary natural attacks all use the highest AB you shouldn't have trouble hitting. That said, full BAB would certainly be nice at lower levels or when using a weapon. Its PF, so d8 HD = medium BAB, according to the existing classes.

    Should be a very interesting class. Note that it gets long-term flight (1/level) at level 2 (beast shape 1 grants flight up to 30'), when most classes can't fly until 5. Also gets pounce at 6, but I figure that's no problem. A synthesist gets it at 1, others at 10, but you really need it with the natural attack routines.

    Vermin shape seems weak for the level you get it. A small size spider or scorpion is still plenty conspicuous and you don't get poison with vermin shape I. Why bother with the vermin for movement modes when a small air elemental has 60' fly (perfect)?
    Last edited by stack; 2012-07-02 at 02:02 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oldhelwyn Wilds

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Quote Originally Posted by stack View Post
    I'd put it at tier 3. Nothing game breaking, but it should be able to contribute to almost any situation with its variety of forms and powers.

    As for BAB, I don't see it as a big deal either way. You will most likely lean on natural attacks most of the time, and since PF primary natural attacks all use the highest AB you shouldn't have trouble hitting. That said, full BAB would certainly be nice at lower levels or when using a weapon. Its PF, so d8 HD = medium BAB, according to the existing classes.

    Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

    you were kind of wrong about natural attacks, as per here. I believe 3.5 works much the same... its been awhile
    See i would give this a Tier 4. its good at shaping (which is substantial).

    I think if i place this class, as is, next to a standard Pathfinder class, it falls way short. remove all the table's various nonsense about shaping and its an empty table, minus the abilities, still very raw and need to be spread out among the levels. Still quite unfinished capstone, its less than half as useful or powerful as standard capstones, in my opinion.

    this is pathfinder as well so i dont know how 3.5 tiers compare to PF tiers, but my guessing is PF are slightly stronger on average. BAB or HD size should go up to the maximum, i think. especially latter on when mimicking dragon's. remember pathfinder is vastly different when dealing with wild shape so we must take that into account, this is not 3.5 and it got nerfed.

    Max BAB, increase HD to d10 or d12, add three abilities at least that have minor functions, and expand the abilities list.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2012-07-02 at 02:25 PM.
    Avatar by Gurgleflep

    Spoiler
    Show
    Belladonis Campaign Setting 3.5
    Casting as a Skill

    Learn from your mistakes, 3.5...
    Fill in those dead levels...

    Abrothia's Vision
    Spoiler
    Show


    Welcome to the World Serpent Inn!
    Spoiler
    Show

    - - - IC - - - OOC - - -


    Extended Signature (90% complete)

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oldhelwyn Wilds

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|+0|+2|+2|+0|Shapeshift
    2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0|Shifter Ability
    3rd|+2|+3|+3|+1|
    4th|+3|+4|+4|+1|Shifter Ability
    5th|+3|+4|+4|+1|
    6th|+4|+5|+5|+2|Shifter Ability
    7th|+5|+5|+5|+2|
    8th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+2|Shifter Ability
    9th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+3|
    10th|+7/+2|+7|+7|+3|Shifter Ability
    11th|+8/+3|+7|+7|+3|
    12th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+4|Shifter Ability
    13th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+4|
    14th|+10/+5|+9|+9|+4|Shifter Ability
    15th|+11/+6/+1|+9|+9|+5|
    16th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|Shifter Ability
    17th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|
    18th|+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|Shifter Ability
    19th|+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6|
    20th|+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|Shifter Ability, True Shapeshifter[/table]

    when i look at a clean finished table, i believe the less clutter the better. move all that Shape stuff down to the descriptive fluff below, and if possible, merge it with the shapeshift text.

    ok, we have our abilities layed out. now you can see, despite the shapeshifting ability, the class is pretty empty. the lists of abilities to choose from are few, meaning only so many combinations possible for builds. add uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, evasion maybe. seriously. the class is bare.

    also, stagger the abilities to odd levels, so you get an shaper ability and a feat, plus the rest of leveling up. uncanny dodge is typically at 4th (and improved at 8th) so add those in. fast movement is stupid, most of the forms you will take will have extremely high speeds.

    what about a minor progression of skirmisher like the scout from 3.5 or the? animals often attack in a attack while moving and such. perhaps add a bonus feat list containing the dodge, mobility, spring attack (moving and attacking at once, very good with this skirmisher ability)

    these are straight from APG and i changed the first one's name:

    Shifter's Charge (Ex): At 4th level, whenever a shifter makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.

    Skirmisher (Ex): At 8th level, whenever a shifter moves more than 10 feet in a round and makes an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If the shifter makes more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.

    so lets add them in there at 12th and 16th.

    we add in a half progression of sneak attack for extra damage and we have a very scary class.

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|+0|+2|+2|+0|Shapeshift, Shifter Ability
    2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0|Sneak Attack +1d6
    3rd|+2|+3|+3|+1|Shifter Ability
    4th|+3|+4|+4|+1|Uncanny Dodge
    5th|+3|+4|+4|+1|Shifter Ability
    6th|+4|+5|+5|+2|Sneak Attack +2d6
    7th|+5|+5|+5|+2|Shifter Ability
    8th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+2|Improved Uncanny Dodge
    9th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+3|Shifter Ability
    10th|+7/+2|+7|+7|+3|Sneak Attack +3d6
    11th|+8/+3|+7|+7|+3|Shifter Ability
    12th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+4|Shifter's Charge
    13th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+4|Shifter Ability
    14th|+10/+5|+9|+9|+4|Sneak Attack +4d6
    15th|+11/+6/+1|+9|+9|+5|Shifter Ability
    16th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|Skirmisher
    17th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|Shifter Ability
    18th|+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|Sneak Attack +5d6
    19th|+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6|Shifter Ability
    20th|+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|True Shapeshifter[/table]
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2012-07-02 at 02:25 PM.
    Avatar by Gurgleflep

    Spoiler
    Show
    Belladonis Campaign Setting 3.5
    Casting as a Skill

    Learn from your mistakes, 3.5...
    Fill in those dead levels...

    Abrothia's Vision
    Spoiler
    Show


    Welcome to the World Serpent Inn!
    Spoiler
    Show

    - - - IC - - - OOC - - -


    Extended Signature (90% complete)

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    I didn't go into full detail on how NAs work. My point was that in a bite/claw/claw routine, all attacks use the full BAB, per the example in your link. Most of the forms you take for combat will have bite and claw routines. Taking mutliattack will reduce the penalty on secondary ones anyway.

    Regarding tier, you are getting every movement mode available, senses (tremorsense, darkvision, etc) stat bumps that you can adjust as needed, a wide variety of monster abilities (pounce, rake, poison, constrict, etc), energy resistance (plant shape 2), regeneration, basically every polymorph spell usable as often as you will ever need them. You can buff combat maneuvers, scout, straight-up melee, self-heal, and uhm...talk with animals. You can find a way to contribute in almost any situation.

    Tier 3: Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes that specialize in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability that can solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.

    Lets see - fights well, can still contribute when not fighting, high all-round versatility without being a game-breaker, I call it Tier 3.

    Compared to a wildshape ranger (tier 3), you can't dump physical stats and don't get the rangers limited spells, but in exchange get much greater power and versatility of forms. Lines-up well with a Pathfinder-ized wildshape ranger/MOMF.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    when i look at a clean finished table, i believe the less clutter the better. move all that Shape stuff down to the descriptive fluff below, and if possible, merge it with the shapeshift text.

    ok, we have our abilities layed out. now you can see, despite the shapeshifting ability, the class is pretty empty. the lists of abilities to choose from are few, meaning only so many combinations possible for builds. add uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, evasion maybe. seriously. the class is bare.

    I think its important to list the shapes in the table, though maybe in its own column. More shifter powers would be nice, but are relatively easy to add verses changes to the core class. Resistance/immunity to hostile polymorphs would be a decent filler, as would wild empathy. Nothing major, just little fluff things.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oldhelwyn Wilds

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Quote Originally Posted by stack View Post
    I think its important to list the shapes in the table, though maybe in its own column. More shifter powers would be nice, but are relatively easy to add verses changes to the core class. Resistance/immunity to hostile polymorphs would be a decent filler, as would wild empathy. Nothing major, just little fluff things.
    its own column would be better.
    Avatar by Gurgleflep

    Spoiler
    Show
    Belladonis Campaign Setting 3.5
    Casting as a Skill

    Learn from your mistakes, 3.5...
    Fill in those dead levels...

    Abrothia's Vision
    Spoiler
    Show


    Welcome to the World Serpent Inn!
    Spoiler
    Show

    - - - IC - - - OOC - - -


    Extended Signature (90% complete)

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gorfnod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Man you guys are great. These are definetly the kinds of critique that I love to get. Alot of stuff since I last commented so I gonna skip the quotes and just point out some of the changes that I'm gonna make.

    BAB -> Full
    HD -> d10

    I am going to make shapes their own column.

    Overhaul the Shifter Ability to every 4 levels, give some of the abilities as freebies at various levels, and add some other minor class "things".

    Still not sure what to do with the capstone but I honestly don't believe that capstones have much effect on classes anyways. Not many people I know actually play at level 20. YRMV

    I am adding this all in the original file that I typed it in and will have it all updated when its ready.

    Thanks again for all the input.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    My thinking with the lower BAB and HD was that you are essentially a caster with a vary short spell list, but I suppose if you went that route you would end up with the transmutation version of the summoner. Which would be a good idea for a class, but different from this at its core.

    Too bad I'll likely never get to play it. Most PF games here are tighter on homebrew.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oldhelwyn Wilds

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Quote Originally Posted by stack View Post
    Too bad I'll likely never get to play it. Most PF games here are tighter on homebrew.
    amen to that
    Avatar by Gurgleflep

    Spoiler
    Show
    Belladonis Campaign Setting 3.5
    Casting as a Skill

    Learn from your mistakes, 3.5...
    Fill in those dead levels...

    Abrothia's Vision
    Spoiler
    Show


    Welcome to the World Serpent Inn!
    Spoiler
    Show

    - - - IC - - - OOC - - -


    Extended Signature (90% complete)

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gorfnod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Lucky for me I play with a group that is pretty open to homebrew.

    This is something that I wanted to do since 3.5 but with the spell Shapechange being what it was, a shapeshifting character never seemed like a real good idea.

    Anyways, the 2nd draft is up and ready for comments.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Didn't catch it before, but I can't say I'm a fan of the alignment restriction (in general, though here I don't see why a shifter shouldn't be of any alignment). The magic attacks are good though. Could add in other DR types as traits, though there are other ways to deal with that (you already have silver covered). Other traits could steal from the warshaper (reach, fast healing, fortification, probably with level minimums).

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gorfnod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    You probably didn't see the alignment before because I just added it. I thought that chaotic fit with an everchanging-being and it made the aligned-natural attacks an easy choice to go with.

    I may have to give that one another thought.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    I figured that was the reasoning, I just don't like locking it in. Could make it 'often chaotic' or some-such.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    Occurred to me that this class will be REALLY good with combat maneuvers, high strength, full BAB, misc bonuses, and not that much else to spend feats on. I suppose 13 INT for combat expertise will be pretty standard, everything else into physicals.

    AC might be low at points though.

    Question - what stat are you using to determine DCs?
    If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

    You aren't actually casting a spell, so don't have a casting stat. I would suggest CON or INT. Con seems the most natural to me, but if you decide it has to be a mental stat, you want INT already anyhow.
    Last edited by stack; 2012-07-03 at 09:04 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gorfnod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry

    3rd and probably final draft is up. As always any comments are welcome but at this point really just looking for any major issues or balance problems you might see with the class.

    Thanks for everyones help.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •