Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

[Venger]

If you mean smallest as in smallest characters we already did that in IC blade bravo a while back. If you mean smallest as in shortest PrC, amphetryon has already stated that he's going to be sticking almost exclusively to 10 lvl PrC's.

This will sound completely random, but I'd like to see Ninja Spy from OA get the IC treatment.

my guess for next time (and hope) is still acolyte of the skin.

ninja spy would indeed be fun. in a similar vein, I'd kind of like to do yakuza.

[T.G. Oskar]

I would prefer if the challenge came from the competition, or in making something truely awesome. Rather than trying to make the PrC seem worth while (I'm looking at you Death Delver).

I find Death Delver a better ingredient than the one from XXXIII. IMO, Drow Judicator was a nightmare, if only because it had the worst kind of spellcasting progression aside from, you know, none at all. That, and all abilities were usable ONLY once per day, unlike Death Delver which has abilities with slightly more uses (spells, supernatural Death Ward, rebuke undead). The class is also quite flexible, as well. Dragon Disciple was also a pretty tough but doable competition.

However, going for a very easy (or expected) class kinda ruins the fun. What if the Chairman chose Incantatrix as the next ingredient? There would be hundreds of possible choices, even though at least half would be run down because of Originality. Without that challenge factor, IC would be dull. And that doesn't mean it's not possible; Divine Champion was a pretty nice PrC with several options, if used correctly. The key is how to use the PrC correctly, instead of focusing on covering all aspects of the PrC. Perhaps it's a hit on Secret Ingredient, but the gain on Elegance and Power more than make it.

It's a shame that I can't say the secret ingredient I want for next competition, nor give a proper clue. I want to essentially be the first to deliver when the moment comes.

[Venger]

I find Death Delver a better ingredient than the one from XXXIII. IMO, Drow Judicator was a nightmare, if only because it had the worst kind of spellcasting progression aside from, you know, none at all. That, and all abilities were usable ONLY once per day, unlike Death Delver which has abilities with slightly more uses (spells, supernatural Death Ward, rebuke undead). The class is also quite flexible, as well. Dragon Disciple was also a pretty tough but doable competition.

However, going for a very easy (or expected) class kinda ruins the fun. What if the Chairman chose Incantatrix as the next ingredient? There would be hundreds of possible choices, even though at least half would be run down because of Originality. Without that challenge factor, IC would be dull. And that doesn't mean it's not possible; Divine Champion was a pretty nice PrC with several options, if used correctly. The key is how to use the PrC correctly, instead of focusing on covering all aspects of the PrC. Perhaps it's a hit on Secret Ingredient, but the gain on Elegance and Power more than make it.

It's a shame that I can't say the secret ingredient I want for next competition, nor give a proper clue. I want to essentially be the first to deliver when the moment comes.

quoted for truth.

drow judicator was indeed a real pain. the whole "SLAs 1/day are class features, rite guise?" mentality of 3.0 was especially strong with that one.

I actually kind of like death delver. the abilities are pretty good, immunity to fear without having to dip pally is kind of cool, permanent death ward is just great and saves you from having to make a costly magic item or buy that death ward for your armor (people use that, right? )

dragon disciple was not only hard, but OGL so there were a lot of contestants. I figured there might be another soul eater, but I didn't figure I'd wind up so far back.

I do find the whole "use a bad/hard class" really works your op-fu, so when you (or a friend) need help with a middling or even actually good prc , you can whip out tricks you learn from iron chef

I have a friend playing a war forged sacred fist right now, and I directed him to gazebo jones for lulz and ideas.

I am curious what you have in mind now though. my spider sense says thunder guide or extreme explorer, but maybe this competition just put eberron on my brain

[Menteith]

True Necromancer. You know you want to get in on that 14 level long, super high pre-req, incredibly unoptimized PrC.

In all seriousness, I'd really like to have something out of Sandstorm, Stormwrack, or Frostburn. I have a love affair with the Ashworm Dragoon, but it might be too similar in style to the Drow Justicar (vermin based companion classes), even though it's one of the few decent mount PrCs out there. Still, at the end of the day, don't we all want to ride to victory with Mounted Full Attack atop a Celestial Ashworm?

[Kelb_Panthera]

True Necromancer. You know you want to get in on that 14 level long, super high pre-req, incredibly unoptimized PrC.

In all seriousness, I'd really like to have something out of Sandstorm, Stormwrack, or Frostburn. I have a love affair with the Ashworm Dragoon, but it might be too similar in style to the Drow Justicar (vermin based companion classes), even though it's one of the few decent mount PrCs out there. Still, at the end of the day, don't we all want to ride to victory with Mounted Full Attack atop a Celestial Ashworm?

Ashworm dragoon is pretty neat. I also think frost rager or primeval would be good secret ingredients, if the chairman decided to draw from one of those sources.

[Garwain]

I'm betting on the shadowbane inquisitor (CAdv).

[Gotterdammerung]

I would like to see Cavelord

Stormcaller would be a fun round i think but it is probably stronger than ur typical IC class.

[OMG PONIES]

Judging update: I'm done 3 entries.

[Menteith]

Ashworm dragoon is pretty neat. I also think frost rager or primeval would be good secret ingredients, if the chairman decided to draw from one of those sources.

Primeval would be sweet. I very nearly took a single level of it during the Dragon Disciple round; it's unique (I don't think Primeval Form can be replicated by anyone else), has medium requirements, and is very, very flavorful.

[dantiesilva]

Due to real life problems I am going to have to pull from judging. Sorry everyone.

[Amphetryon]

Ashworm dragoon is pretty neat. I also think frost rager or primeval would be good secret ingredients, if the chairman decided to draw from one of those sources.

Frost Rager, as a 5-level PrC, won't be chosen on my watch.

[ThiagoMartell]

I'd love to see Shadow Sun Ninja

[Madara]

Judging update: I'm done 3 entries.

Yay! You are super awesome. Keep it up!

[Kelb_Panthera]

Frost Rager, as a 5-level PrC, won't be chosen on my watch.

Oops. Forgot that one was a 5er.

[Amphetryon]

I'd love to see Shadow Sun Ninja

It's the only one I'd even consider as viable for this contest from Tome of Battle.

[ThiagoMartell]

It's the only one I'd even consider as viable for this contest from Tome of Battle.

Great minds think alike

[Thurbane]

I've got next week off work, so I'll see how I go at getting some judging done - not guaranteeing anything, but if I get enough free time, I'll submit judgements.

[OMG PONIES]

Speaking of judgments, I'm halfway done.

[Amphetryon]

Is that for Ninja Spy, or for short PrC's?


That's why it's Iron Chef, rather than say, aluminum chef or brass chef.

If there were no challenge, how much fun would it be really? Nevermind a lack of challenge invalidating the title. Ya know, Iron Chef Optimization Challenge.

Short PrCs.

[Madara]

Speaking of judgments, I'm halfway done.

So we might have scores in the next day or so? You are awesome

[Kelb_Panthera]

Short PrCs.

Phew. I was worried we would never see ninja spy for a minute there.

[OMG PONIES]

So we might have scores in the next day or so? You are awesome

Easy now, let's not get ahead of ourselves .

[Madara]

Easy now, let's not get ahead of ourselves .

Pshh I already got ahead of myself in entering this contest.

[Kazyan]

I'd like to see Rage Mage. It's beautiful in how pointless it is.

[Madara]

The Fleshwarper is unique, has several different means of entry. Has actual class features. It would test the ability of people to use grafts, and its a 9/10 casting class.

I don't think it would happen next IC, but maybe down the road.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The Fleshwarper is unique, has several different means of entry. Has actual class features. It would test the ability of people to use grafts, and its a 9/10 casting class.

I don't think it would happen next IC, but maybe down the road.

I don't remember being particularly impressed by that one, but hooray for creepy goodness.

[Madara]

I don't remember being particularly impressed by that one, but hooray for creepy goodness.

Look it over again. It has one of those "Select an ability from the list at such and such levels" which means not all competators will build the same class levels. It gets a craft pool for grafts, and its familiar turns into an abberation. And of course a nice 9/10 casting.

[A_S]

Look it over again. It has one of those "Select an ability from the list at such and such levels" which means not all competators will build the same class levels. It gets a craft pool for grafts, and its familiar turns into an abberation. And of course a nice 9/10 casting.

Unfortunately, all of the abilities you can select for both yourself and your familiar are both terrible and boring. They do things like "gain immunity to disease" or "gain +4 natural armor and +2 to fort saves" or "gain a climb speed," not grant interesting new abilities. The coolest thing you can do is give your familiar a tentacle attack.

Grafts are more interesting, and the class does let you play with them a lot, so that's kind of cool. But its native class features are disappointingly dull.

[OMG PONIES]

Grafts are more interesting, and the class does let you play with them a lot, so that's kind of cool. But its native class features are disappointingly dull.

Which makes it a perfect Secret Ingredient .

[Menteith]

Which makes it a perfect Secret Ingredient .

My biggest problem (and this is a shared problem with any 9/10 or 10/10 casting SI) is that you can basically just go Wizard 10 Fleshwarper 10, which makes all but the most powerful class feature redundant. It doesn't really matter that I took 25% fortification and you took disease immunity when we're both casting 9ths off the Sorc/Wiz list, you know?