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  1. - Top - End - #211
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Menteith View Post
    My biggest problem (and this is a shared problem with any 9/10 or 10/10 casting SI) is that you can basically just go Wizard 10 Fleshwarper 10, which makes all but the most powerful class feature redundant. It doesn't really matter that I took 25% fortification and you took disease immunity when we're both casting 9ths off the Sorc/Wiz list, you know?
    True, but if you look at how things are judged, you'll find that you'd be more rewarded to come up with a unique build.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

  2. - Top - End - #212
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    There are already several builds for fleshwarper. They range from strong to broken. I agree that it would be fun to do a competition based around fleshwarper, BUT the class is way to strong for your typical ICOCitP.

  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Menteith View Post
    My biggest problem (and this is a shared problem with any 9/10 or 10/10 casting SI) is that you can basically just go Wizard 10 Fleshwarper 10, which makes all but the most powerful class feature redundant. It doesn't really matter that I took 25% fortification and you took disease immunity when we're both casting 9ths off the Sorc/Wiz list, you know?
    Well Wiz 10/Fleshwarper 10 only really works if you're one of a few very specific races. Power will be high all round, sure, but there is some variety in qualification, especially in qualifying as early as possible.
    Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor

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    original Urpriest (by Andraste)

  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Anyway, I trust our distiguished host to pick a great class. In the mean time....SCORES!

    (They're coming soon, just you wait)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    Anyway, I trust our distiguished host to pick a great class. In the mean time....SCORES!

    (They're coming soon, just you wait)
    Narrowed down to 2 choices.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Narrowed down to 2 choices.
    That scares me, as if something we've said has done something. I feel like I did something wrong, or mentioned the class so now you can't use it...

    You're scaring me!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    That scares me, as if something we've said has done something. I feel like I did something wrong, or mentioned the class so now you can't use it...

    You're scaring me!!
    nah, that's not a problem. at least a few people were able to guess that death delver would be the SI after dragon disciple, doesn't mean we didn't do it. it might have accounted for a few of the entries getting in in such a timely fashion.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
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  8. - Top - End - #218
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    nah, that's not a problem. at least a few people were able to guess that death delver would be the SI after dragon disciple, doesn't mean we didn't do it. it might have accounted for a few of the entries getting in in such a timely fashion.
    So you're saying you've sussed out the next SI?
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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  9. - Top - End - #219
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    So you're saying you've sussed out the next SI?
    Impossibru!

    Cuz u said you hadn't chosen it yet.
    Narrowed down to 2 choices = hadn't made a choice yet.


    I'm pretty sure one of the choices is Acolyte of the Skin.

    A.) it is amazingly craptastic class with horrible mechanics with a side of fail. (which means your sadistic butt loves it and wants to pick it)

    B.) people been asking for it for many many competitions.

    So I think AoS is a good guess for next IC.

  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    I'm still hoping for Primeval one of these days. The class has multiple means of entry, has an entirely unique shapeshift mechanic, and is chock full of delicious flavor.
    There is the moral of all human tales;
    'Tis but the same rehearsal of the past.
    First freedom and then Glory - when that fails,
    Wealth, vice, corruption - barbarism at last.
    And History, with all her volumes vast,
    Hath but one page...

  11. - Top - End - #221
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    What I want to see is something incredibly obscure/terrible, like a Fang of Sseth (SK), Black Flame Zealot (CD) or Wildrunner (RotW).

  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    I just realized, the judging deadline is saturday, and I shall be out of town that day! I'll have to wait until Monday to find out the results....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

  13. - Top - End - #223
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    So you're saying you've sussed out the next SI?
    oh, nothing like that, just that others were able to guess death delver right, so it's possible to guess the next SI, even if it's not very likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung View Post
    Impossibru!

    Cuz u said you hadn't chosen it yet.
    Narrowed down to 2 choices = hadn't made a choice yet.


    I'm pretty sure one of the choices is Acolyte of the Skin.

    A.) it is amazingly craptastic class with horrible mechanics with a side of fail. (which means your sadistic butt loves it and wants to pick it)

    B.) people been asking for it for many many competitions.

    So I think AoS is a good guess for next IC.

    I too hope for acolyte of the skin, but don't think it's very likely. the mechanics are indeed amazingly disappointing, but do you want to be optimised, or do you want to shoot fear out of your eyes?
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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  14. - Top - End - #224
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    nah, that's not a problem. at least a few people were able to guess that death delver would be the SI after dragon disciple, doesn't mean we didn't do it. it might have accounted for a few of the entries getting in in such a timely fashion.
    Eh, I was the first one to guess Death Delver in the last thread, and I didn't get my entry in until a few hours before the final deadline. So I guess it didn't help me too much.

    Of course, I didn't actually expect to be RIGHT.....
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    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  15. - Top - End - #225
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    I too hope for acolyte of the skin, but don't think it's very likely. the mechanics are indeed amazingly disappointing, but do you want to be optimised, or do you want to shoot fear out of your eyes?
    I WANT TO SHOOT FEAR OUT OF MY EYES! HUZZAH!!!!

    ....errr... but... can I do it more than once a day please? ... pretty please?

  16. - Top - End - #226
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung View Post
    I WANT TO SHOOT FEAR OUT OF MY EYES! HUZZAH!!!!

    ....errr... but... can I do it more than once a day please? ... pretty please?
    Why do all prestige class abilities have to be 1/day? I prefer the 5 round recharge mechanic from the Binder, that'd be better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

  17. - Top - End - #227
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    Why do all prestige class abilities have to be 1/day? I prefer the 5 round recharge mechanic from the Binder, that'd be better.
    short answer is, it's a holdover from 3.0. as we saw with drow judicator, they often confused a SLA 1/day for a class feature. they also think that certain things (like fear effects and fire damage) are more powerful/prevalent than they actually are.

    one thing that the designers seem to think is especially common (but is not) is effects that increase one's age (there's one spell I know of, touch of years) another is petrification. but I digress.

    it's commonly known that fire resistance/immunity is the most common of the energy types. as a result, one can expect to get the least use of an ability which deals this kind of damage as opposed to a different type or just untyped damage like normal stuff.

    the designers undoubtedly looked at the 8d6 damage and thought "OMGZ that could kil a level 12 wizard if both hit! they have bad AC and no hit points! better just do it once a day or this class will kill all the monsters forever"

    the same's true of your fear beams. unlike the fire beams which come online at (at the earliest) 12, this comes online at level 8, where you might believably encounter enemies who aren't immune to fear, as opposed to your omega beams which you'll have a hard time using at lvl 12 (a milestone where you start fighting devils and demons in many campaigns) but after level 8, it drops off rapidly in usefulness as enemies rapidly become immune to fear due to type stuff (undead/plant/etc) and they'll likely make the save since it's unlikely to be that high, keyed off class level and cha. unlike fire beams though, at least fear beams (kind of) scale
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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  18. - Top - End - #228
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    I've completed my preliminary judge's comments for all builds. Now I just have to proofread, double-check for consistency in scores, and format for the forum. To provide a bit of a teaser, in this round I will be providing both the lowest and highest scores I've ever given as a judge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
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  19. - Top - End - #229
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    I've completed my preliminary judge's comments for all builds. Now I just have to proofread, double-check for consistency in scores, and format for the forum. To provide a bit of a teaser, in this round I will be providing both the lowest and highest scores I've ever given as a judge.
    That is both good and bad. And also good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

  20. - Top - End - #230
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    I've completed my preliminary judge's comments for all builds. Now I just have to proofread, double-check for consistency in scores, and format for the forum. To provide a bit of a teaser, in this round I will be providing both the lowest and highest scores I've ever given as a judge.
    That's quite a teaser... can't wait to see the results!
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    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  21. - Top - End - #231
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    how often do these competitions happen?
    Come post a magic item to show that not all unique items are immensely powerful tools of the gods!
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  22. - Top - End - #232
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    how often do these competitions happen?
    A new one begins as soon as the last one's judging deadline concludes. Generally two weeks are allowed for builds, and two weeks are allowed for judging, giving a new Iron Chef every month.
    There is the moral of all human tales;
    'Tis but the same rehearsal of the past.
    First freedom and then Glory - when that fails,
    Wealth, vice, corruption - barbarism at last.
    And History, with all her volumes vast,
    Hath but one page...

  23. - Top - End - #233
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Menteith View Post
    A new one begins as soon as the last one's judging deadline concludes. Generally two weeks are allowed for builds, and two weeks are allowed for judging, giving a new Iron Chef every month.
    one a month is about right, but extra time is given for the november and december ones due to chefs and judges' family obligations and the like. the last january one had a shorter cooktime to make up for it so we would be able to have a new one ready for the next month, so it does average to one every 3 or 4 weeks.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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  24. - Top - End - #234
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Narrowed down to 2 one choices.
    Fix'd.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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  25. - Top - End - #235
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Fix'd.

    Its gonna be the Bard PrC from Unearthed Arcana...isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

  26. - Top - End - #236
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Fix'd.
    Now I know it is Acolyte of the Skin...



    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    You see that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    You see that sadistic grin... yeh its AotS.


  27. - Top - End - #237
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Or Amph could be completely playing us, laughing heartily as he pulls our strings and watches us dance to his tune.

    We'll find out when we find out, I guess.

    My money's against Acolyte of the Skin for ICO XXXVI, though. We'll probably do it for ICO DCLXVI.

  28. - Top - End - #238
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Okay kiddos, gather 'round to get your scores! I've realized in this round of judging that my current criteria rewards those who use all parts of the buffalo (so to speak) above and beyond ones that present one astounding trick. There were some builds that definitely brought great tricks or interesting ideas, but at the end of the day this competition is about using the dish presented to its fullest.

    Also, some of my comments and scores might seem harsh, as more than one entry suffered because of misplaced skill ranks. I know that most [all?] of them could have rectified the error with a minor change, but I have to score the builds as presented. If I relent for someone who has to shift around skills to meet a prerequisite, I feel that in fairness I'd have to hold the same standard for anyone who had to shift around feats, or class features, or favorite colors. Everyone would get 20s at the end of it, but I don't know how much fun it would be.

    That said, I have to reiterate how impressed I was with the variety of entries--even those who used similar base classes chose entirely different directions in terms of crunch and flavor for their entries. This one was really fun to judge! But you're not here to hear me ramble; no, you're here for the cold, hard numbers. Here they are:

    Doctor Herbert West: 13
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    Originality: 5
    • Archivist wasn’t quite expected, but I had no idea someone would pull in the Nosomatic Chirurgeon! It’s one of my favorite obscure Eberron PrCs, so I’m trying not to be partial, but it took me by surprise (+0.5).
    • You’re the only Halfling we have in this round (+0.5).
    • The concept was definitely interesting, and the good Doctor becomes a frightening fellow who can cast Maximized Cure AND Inflict Spells with nary a thought. Should that get boring, he’s got his menagerie of diseases to rely on. Good thing he took that oath…(+0.5).
    • Holy backstory length, Batman! Even still, it gripped me from beginning to end (+0.5).
    Power: 2
    • I don’t know how to feel about your spellcasting progression. On one hand, Archivist casting is basically stopped and restarted by Death Delver (in a limited fashion). On the other hand, the Death Delver casting can almost be thought of as bonus low-level Archivist spells per day, especially since you already need a high WIS along with your INT due to archivist’s dual-stat casting. Overall, you’re filling in the primary caster role with nothing above 5th-level spells, so I have to take something here (-0.5).
    • If you’re using Knowledge Devotion and Dark Knowledge, you’ve got to put the ranks into the Big 6 Knowledge skills that’ll make your investment worthwhile. You’ve got middling ranks in a few of them, so you’ll be getting some benefit from the feat. However, Knowledge: Local is missing entirely so the feat will be of absolutely no benefit against humanoids. Your nosomatic chirurgeon abilities rely on touch attacks which are boosted by what you’ve got, so the deduction is lower than it could have been (-0.5).
    Elegance: 3
    • Cross-setting material may raise many DMly eyebrows (-0.5).
    • Base class/Secret Ingredient/five-level PrC is almost as simple as it gets (+0.5).
    • You qualify for all feats and PrCs taken without incident (+0.5).
    • Practiced Spellcaster comes online too early to be truly useful, and Mastery of Day and Night too late. Your Dragonmarked feats come online at the proper places, and Knowledge Devotion is right where it needs to be, but the build would have felt much more fluid with these two feats in different spots (-0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
    • Entry requirements are met, but not maxed (0).
    • This is the problem with taking an awesome PrC in conjunction with the Secret Ingredient. While you mention many of the Secret Ingredient’s class features, none are really optimized. Instead, the focus is on Nosomatic Chirurgeon (-0.5).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5).

    Dalibar the Nightmare: 12
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    Originality: 4
    • You’re the only gnome in this round of competition (+0.5).
    • Though we frequently see fear optimization in Iron Chef, I didn’t expect to see it here since the Secret Ingredient is not very focused on fear (+0.5).
    • Backstory was short and sweet—just enough to get a taste of the character (0).
    Power: 2.5
    • I can’t help but see a Gnomish illusionist chassis and compare it to the other gnomish illusionist PrC that sees so much love in optimization circles. Unfortunately, this build is a far cry from it (-0.5).
    • When you focus this much on fear, you have to provide a plan B for what you plan on doing with those creatures that are immune to it (-0.5).
    • You have plenty of spells to keep you going strong through a standard adventuring day, and most of your class features are usable more than 1/day (+0.5).
    Elegance: 2
    • Base class/Secret Ingredient/five-level PrC is almost as simple as it gets (+0.5).
    • Without 9 ranks in Knowledge: arcana, you don’t qualify for Arcane Thesis (-0.5).
    • Your metamagic feats are taken in an odd order, some being useful only a few levels after coming online while other low-adjustment metamagics (namely Sculpt Spell and Invisible Spell) come online surprisingly late in the game (-0.5).
    • Your spellcasting stops and, via Death Delver, advances anew in a totally different direction. Because of this, the progression feels like it stalls a bit in the middle (-0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5
    • All entry requirements are met, and two of them are maximized (+0.5).
    • With a WIS of 11, you can’t cast most of the spells you gain as a Death Delver. You attempt to address this through gear, but it’s hardly a permanent solution (-0.5).
    • Nightmare Spinner’s fear immunity is redundant with Death Delver’s deadened soul (-0.5).
    • I do appreciate your mention of class features like Deathsense for scouting and using your bonus illusion spell slots to fuel the Death Delver’s spontaneous healing (+0.5).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5).

    Cado Norl: 11
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 3
    • Barbarian dips are very useful for increasing melee potency. Unfortunately, another competitor had the exact same thought (-0.5)
    • Neraphim was a surprise (+0.5).
    • Backstory was short and sweet—just enough to get a taste of the character (0).
    Power: 2
    • You maintain the all-important fourth iterative attack, plus you gain a bonus attack from Whirling Frenzy. Though it’s not listed, I’m assuming that you chose Two-Weapon Fighting as your ranger combat style. You also have respectable bonus damage thanks to Favored Enemy, Skirmish, and Swift Hunter (+0.5).
    • However, you only have one Whirling Frenzy per day and one ranger spell per day (-0.5).
    • Your defenses rely on an often-banned item (Starmantle Cloak) used in conjunction with a class feature you don’t actually have (Evasion), and you mention reliance on a friendly caster to dispel spells cast at you. Without these, you lack much defensively (-0.5).
    • Most of your feats were well-chosen, but I question the inclusion of Iron & Cumbrous Will. What purpose do they serve in this build (-0.5)?
    Elegance: 2.5
    • Your dip causes you to receive multiclass XP penalties (-0.5).
    • You qualify for all feats and PrCs without incident (+0.5).
    • No list of sources provided (-0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5
    • Entry requirements are met but not maximized (0).
    • Travel Devotion + Rebuke Undead gives you a nice way to get reliable movement to trigger your skirmish abilities and still get in a full attack (+0.5).
    • However, while other class features receive passing mention, none of them are truly optimized (-0.5).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5)

    TK-421 "Rush": 9
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    Originality: 3
    • Not the only warforged in the pack (-0.5)
    • I never thought that I’d see a combination of Warforged Juggernaut and Reforged, but see my comments in Elegance below (+0.5).
    • Backstory was short and sweet—just enough to get a taste of the character (0).
    Power: 2
    • A bullrushing build without Dungeoncrasher or any of the tactical feats that make use of bullrushing falls flat. A charging build without pounce or any ubercharger tactics does the same. What you have here is something that manages to combine the two (-0.5).
    • The Rune of Extension couples nicely with your spell lists and allows you to get a little more mileage from your spellcasting (+0.5).
    • I can’t see what taking the Secret Ingredient provides over more levels in either Warforged Juggernaut or Spellcarved Soldier (-0.5).
    • For a gish, your number of spells per day is surprisingly low. While you seek to rectify this by extending your buffs, your primary tactic of charging and channeling spells will only work as long as you have spells to channel (-0.5).
    Elegance: 1 (minimum)
    • Dips in four different classes is a bit excessive (-0.5).
    • Your dip in ranger causes you to receive multiclass XP penalties (-0.5).
    • No list of sources provided (-0.5).
    • Without 4 ranks in Spellcraft, you fail to qualify for Spellcarved Soldier (-1).
    • Warforged Juggernaut and Reforged have always been, in my opinion, two different directions for a warforged character to pursue. Taking both feels like you’re sinking many levels into treading water, especially since some of their class features are opposites (-0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
    • Entry requirements are met but not maximized (0).
    • A few class features receive passing mention, but none receive any real attention (-0.5).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5).

    Reach: 9.5
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 4
    • You’re the only changeling in our crop this time, so that’s worth something (+0.5).
    • Dragonfire Adept was definitely a refreshing entry into the class, but I’m dying to see a changeling build that doesn’t feel like they need to include warshaper, so it’s a wash (0).
    • While Legacy Champion is sometimes used in optimization circles, I’ve never seen a build that actually focuses on it (+0.5).
    • Backstory was short and sweet—just enough to get a taste of the character. Amusingly, the character that dislikes taking the shape of men is pictured as a male (0).
    Power: 1
    • I’m missing the reason for the inclusion of Darkstalker in this build—it’s a stealth-focused feat that comes online at a level where there are ways around it on a character with middling ranks in stealth skills. It seems like a waste. Again, the same goes for Iron Will/Cumbrous Will (-0.5).
    • You make no mention of Legacy Champion’s Replace Legacy Ability feature, or any of its class features for that matter (-0.5).
    • Since so much of Reach’s abilities are focused on using one particular item, it really hurts that you don’t even qualify to use it. Even if you did, most of your power is taken away as soon as that quarterstaff is (-0.5).
    • I’m trying to figure out which existing class features you’re advancing with Legacy Champion, but there is absolutely no mention of it. This makes it hard to tell what to compare your power to (-0.5).
    Elegance: 2.5
    • Without 5 ranks in Knowledge: religion, you can’t wield Scales of Balance. Since you can’t wield Scales of Balance, you can’t learn any of its legacies. Since you can’t learn the legacies, you don’t qualify for Least Legacy, Lesser Legacy, Curative Legacy (x2), or Greater Legacy. Because you don’t qualify for Least Legacy, you don’t qualify for Legacy Champion. Unfortunately, one skill rank can make a big difference (-3.5, or -2.5 if we don’t count the bonus legacy feats gained via Legacy Champion). The 5 ranks are there at level 2, but a typo meant they disappeared thereafter (0).
    • No list of sources provided (-0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2
    • Entry requirements are met but not maximized (0).
    • None of the class features are even mentioned in this build aside from casting, which gets the briefest mention (-0.5).
    • Only five levels were taken (-0.5).

    The Dark Fantastic: 15.5
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 4.5
    • You’re the only Hellbred, and the inclusion of the Dark template was a nice twist I haven’t seen applied to that race (+0.5).
    • Your attempt to pick up a handful of turn/rebuke sources did not go unnoticed here, as well as your choice to power divine feats with them so you’ll always have some use for them (+0.5).
    • Your backstory gives a nice perspective into the character’s history and shows a glimpse of a Death Delver at a rare point—his second, final death (+0.5).
    Power: 4.5
    • Paladin/Binder is a great chassis for a CHA-focused melee warrior—I actually used it myself with Dulcinea, way back in Round XI. Sorry for the shameless plug; back to you. You exit both base classes at the usual breakpoints (+0.5).
    • One of the great things about both binder and paladin levels is that the bonuses they provide are mostly all-day abilities. You can keep on delving long after others have called it a day (+0.5).
    • Of course, you’re not satisfied to stop there. Retrieve spell allows you to cash in some of your turn/rebuke attempts to get your spells back. The fact that you only have up to fourth-level spells means that you’re never cashing in too many attempts for a spell. More Enervation, anyone (+0.5)?
    Elegance: 2
    • Two base classes taken beyond a dip (and avoiding multiclass penalties) combine nicely with the Secret Ingredient in a straightforward fashion (+0.5).
    • Since Devil’s Aura requires 9 ranks in Intimidate, you cannot qualify for it as your bonus feat at 4th level (-0.5).
    • Without 4 ranks in Intimidate, you do not qualify for Improved Binding (-0.5).
    • With 5 levels in Binder and without qualifying for Improved Binding, you can only bind up to 3rd-level vestiges, so Tenebrous is still out of reach (-0.5).
    • Without providing the rest of your skill ranks, it’s hard to see how you progress in that arena. However, the actual class features flow nicely, so it’s a wash (0).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.5
    • Entry requirements are met, but not maximized (0).
    • Clever job trading away anything that would be redundant, from Aura of Courage to paladin spellcasting (+0.5).
    • Every class feature is mentioned and given some optimizing attention (+0.5).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5)

    Pino Chio: 6
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 2.5
    • Barbarian dips are very useful for increasing melee potency. Unfortunately, another competitor had the exact same thought (-0.5)
    • Not the only warforged in the pack (-0.5)
    • That being said, you’re the only mummified warforged I think I’ve ever seen in my life. How does one mummify a warforged, anyway? Never mind, I don’t want to know (+0.5).
    • I definitely wasn’t expecting a grappler build in this round of competition. Good on you (+0.5)!
    • I usually keep myself from doing this, but I have to take some points away because of your backstory. I understand that some backstories are written as jokes while others are stories, but this one was filled with so many “wink wink” metagame references that I often found myself confused whether I was reading something about Pino’s life or his player’s (-0.5).
    Power: 1.5
    • Skill Focus (Perform) isn’t doing you any favors here. On the same note of wasted feats, you technically qualify for Divine Metamagic, but since you don’t have any metamagic feats at the time you take it, it’s not doing anything but taking up space. Due to this gaffe, the same can be said of Persistent Spell, since it’s still a +6 adjustment to spell level which you have no way of using (-0.5).
    • Mummified creature gives you some great defensive capabilities, but not much in the way of offense. You’re an undead creature who’s hard to put down but easy to ignore (-0.5).
    • Speaking of your cleric levels, you lack the wisdom to make full use of your spellcasting, and I see no indication of your domain choices. As a friendly tip, the Planning domain could have snagged you Extend Spell free of charge. Evaluating you as a grappler, I have to give credit where credit is due for Scorpion’s Grasp, as Improved Grab helps out any grappler build. However, by the time it comes online, you’re competing with Freedom of Movement and even those that don’t have it often have ways to avoid all but the toughest grapple checks. There’s little you do to buff your grapple check, so this is fairly weak as a grappler (-0.5).
    • One rage per day and a handful of low-level spell slots unfortunately won’t be enough to last you a standard adventuring day. Mummified creature is your saving grace here, as the all-day benefits it provides assure that you’ll at least be able to make it to nightfall, even if you’re out of rage and spells for half the day (0).
    Elegance: 1
    • Three different base classes are easy to swallow, but two templates (one with a negative LA, one with a steep LA) will scare off those concerned with simplicity (-0.5).
    • No sources listed (-0.5).
    • Your use of Mummified Creature in conjunction with Incarnate Construct for a LA of only +2 is iffy at best. They are both acquired templates, but they are not templates that can be applied at the same time. In order to be mummified, you must first become a humanoid, so there is a time where Incarnate Construct is your only template. The description of that template states that it leaves the creature with a minimum LA of 0, so when you tack on mummified creature, you’re faced with a rather steep LA of +4. You could bring LA buyoff into play, but that would complicate matters more. Since this is already mentioned in my first comment of the category, no deduction—just a heads up (0).
    • You’re going to see a multiclass XP penalty due to your cleric levels (-0.5).
    • This builds starts off a few different directions, but never really pursues any of them. As a result, the character’s abilities do not progress naturally and fluidly throughout the build. He picks up a few things here, a few things there, kind of like a fruit salad when we’re really looking for a smoothie (-0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 1 (automatic)
    • Without two ranks in Heal, you fail to qualify for the Secret Ingredient (automatic score of 1).
    • With a WIS of 12, you can’t cast most of the spells you gain as a Death Delver (-0.5).
    • None of the class features aside from the fear aura are mentioned (-0.5).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5).

    Mortimus Vozh: 17
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 4.5
    • Human is bog standard optimization fare, so neither a bonus nor a deduction here (0).
    • Deadgrim was definitely unexpected, and fits the flavor perfectly of someone who toys with death without ever crossing that final line (+0.5)
    • You did the whole “cast cure AND inflict” thing alongside the whole “turn AND rebuke” thing. The addition of little things like “aura of courage AND aura of fear” add nicely to the concept of a walking contradiction (+0.5).
    • Your backstory does a nice job of explaining how you gain your various classes/class features over the course of your adventuring career (+0.5).
    Power: 4
    • You use the standard paladin breakpoint for charging paladins, but the way everything combines actually makes this a better straight paladin than some other builds I’ve seen (+0.5).
    • You’ve got a boatload of spells as well as turn/rebuke attempts, not to mention some all-day tactical options that work nicely with them (+0.5).
    Elegance: 3.5
    • Your build fits nicely into an Eberron world, but doesn’t present anything too complex for inclusion in another campaign setting. Just switch out Dol Arrah for an applicable deity (0).
    • Though you have a dip, your choice of race means you won’t be facing a multiclass XP penalty (0).
    • The build flows nicely, gaining spells, attack power, and options for your turn/rebuke attempts in one fluid progression as you level. This is what the anti-undead paladin base class should look like (+0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 5
    • Entry requirements are met, but not maximized (0).
    • You use the class features to power a trick that would not have been possible for the build any other way, which allows use of a unique tactical feat (+0.5).
    • I came here ready to blast you for some apparent redundancy in class features, but you do a great job addressing all of them in your Q&A section. Spot on (+0.5)!
    • Using Deadgrim’s extra spells to buff up the Death Delver spell list was both classy and clever. Granted, due to your low number of spells per day you might have gotten slightly more mileage out of adding them to your cleric list, but it was a nice way to boost Death Delver casting nonetheless (+0.5).
    • Only nine levels taken, but you made a valid point for why you didn’t take the 10th level. Additionally, you present the possibility for taking the 10th level in your “Optionals” section (+0.5).

    Het of Wyrmtooth Mountain: 15.5
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 4.5
    • You’re the only kobold this round, and you make use of a cool subrace to make it more unique (+0.5).
    • I definitely wasn’t expecting a high-mobility Killer Gnome Killer in this round. It reminds me of my own build, Jakob the Liar from way back in Round XI. Now I’m done with the shameless plugs, I promise (+0.5).
    • It was nice to see a backstory that focused on the special requirement of the Secret Ingredient (+0.5).
    Power: 3.5
    • You manage to maintain an initiator level of 15, as well as getting those higher levels at a time where you’re able to grab some new maneuvers as well. Overall, you’re only missing out on ninth-level maneuvers (+0.5).
    • Defensively, you’re a beast. Offensively, you can dish out consistent damage as a standard action but don’t do much in the way of full attacks. You’re hard to ignore, that’s for sure—there’s just not much of a penalty for ignoring you, especially when compared to the other Underfoot Combat/Confound the Big Folk builds that are floating around optimization circles much like the Killer Gnome (-0.5).
    • Earth Devotion partners nicely with your reach/natural attack as well as your Underfoot Combat/Confound the Big Folk tricks (+0.5).
    • With your high number of maneuvers known, your maxed Concentration, and your ability to take 10 on Concentration checks, I’m surprised we didn’t see the three save-replacing maneuvers to autosave anything with a DC of 35 or lower. No deduction, just surprised (0).
    Elegance: 4
    • Base class 10/Secret Ingredient 10 is a no-frills approach that shouldn’t cause a problem with any DMs (+1).
    • You qualify for all feats (and the Secret Ingredient) without incident (+0.5).
    • Extra Readied Maneuver and Combat Reflexes strike me as decidedly early-game feats, where you take them in the position of a capstone (-0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5
    • Entry requirements are met, and one of them is maximized (+0.5).
    • A few of the class features receive passing mention, but none are particularly optimized (-0.5).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5)

    Wilhemina Delilah Harkness: 14.75
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 3.5
    • Human is bog standard optimization fare, so neither a bonus nor a deduction here (0).
    • Necrocarnate was a nice way to infuse the Death Delver with more of a necromantic flair (+0.5).
    • Backstory was short and sweet—just enough to get a taste of the character (0).
    Power: 3.25
    • For someone whose primary shtick is incarnum, you don’t have much essentia to play around with nor many chakra binds at once. While necrocarnate helps you gain essentia, your dip into the class means you can only snag 2 essentia at a time. That being said, you have 5 soulmelds and only miss the throat, heart, and soul chakras, so you have plenty of options available, even if you can’t use many of them at a time. This makes it a wash (0). While Harvest Soul means you need to start every day with a big bowl of Corpse Flakes, it addresses my concerns with your amount of essentia (+0.25).
    • You drop out of necrocarnate one level before gaining essentia trap, which is their signature ability IMHO. I don’t know why this build wasn’t Incarnate 5/Death Delver 10/Necrocarnate 5 (-0.5).
    • One of the reasons incarnum sees use is because it provides a few all-day boosts that can be shifted around easily. That boost to longevity does not go unnoticed here (+0.5).
    Elegance: 3.5
    • One base class, the Secret Ingredient, and one additional PrC is about as simple as one can get (+0.5).
    • You qualify for all feats and PrCs without incident (+0.5).
    • The progression of the character starts nicely, but lags a bit in the middle levels as you go into Death Delver and place your other abilities on hold. Since there’s no specification on what Extend Supernatural Ability and Sudden Ability Focus are tied to, it makes it even harder to gauge how this build progresses. The fact that you don't have to specify what abilities these feats power is helpful, but doesn't make up for the lag in the middle of the build. (-0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.5
    • Entry requirements are met, and two are maximized (+0.5).
    • Some class features receive passing mention, but none are particularly optimized (-0.5). Feats are taken to optimize some class features (Nine Lives, Fear Aura, and Death Ward in particular), but their scope is a bit limited in often they can boost the SI. Even still, this shows that intentional effort was put toward betting the class features, so this deduction has been removed (0).
    • I have to show some love for taking Practiced Spellcaster to boost the CL of your Secret Ingredient spells (+0.5).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5).

    Mr. Bibby: 11.5
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 4
    • Human is bog standard optimization fare, so neither a bonus nor a deduction here (0).
    • I think it’s safe to say that I haven’t seen anything like this before, even in the fear optimization arena (+0.5).
    • Sanctified One and Geomancer are not only surprises to see in this round, but are also surprising to see used together (+0.5).
    • I can’t really make heads or tails of the intro—I don’t know if I’m missing some kind of tongue-in-cheek reference, but it’s enough to give us a bite-sized sample of one creepy monkey lover (0).
    Power: 1.5
    • Skill Focus (Handle Animal) as a capstone feat isn’t doing you any favors here. I know that it’s the focus of your build, but this feels like a wasted feat (-0.5).
    • Fell Frighten doesn’t actually frighten foes, but merely renders them shaken. As such, it’s not the encounter-ender that you present it as, instead serving as a mediocre debuff. Yes, it can stack with other fear effects, so there’s no deduction, but that doesn’t make it a game changer on its own (0).
    • Touch of Healing and your Crafting skill ensures that you won’t be a drain on party resources, but can actually contribute plenty of goodies and free heals if given enough downtime. Granted, some campaigns don’t give that, but if yours does you’ll be sitting pretty (+0.5).
    • You don’t exactly abuse the action economy as you think, since you fail to qualify for Spellrazor and handling animals takes up part of your action: namely a move action. You can handle a maximum of two monkeys per round…and that’s if you take no other action. Handle Animal issues aside, part of your time is spent tossing out fear effects indiscriminately, while the other part of it is spent undoing the very effects you’ve caused in your teammates. Not only does this cut into your action economy, but it also means they will be wasting at least a turn between the time you drop a fear effect and the time you remind them that everything’s okay. This is sure to hamper the party’s efficiency and fun (-0.5).
    • The crux of any good fear-focused build is what you do with opponents that are immune to fear. The only response I see here is to surround them with monkeys (-0.5).
    • Your main schtick lasts only as long as your WBL and monkey mooks can support, and the power lags behind where you might think it does. You really are chasing after the wind here—the DC of the fear effect you tout the most is based on the strength of the wind. In most conditions, it’ll be a flat DC 10, could raise up to 19 on a windy day, and tops out at 28 only if you’re fighting in a tornado. The DCs aren’t stellar for the tactic you’re trying to focus your career on (-0.5).
    Elegance: 1.5
    • Two dips and a splash in a PrC might be more than some DMs allow (-0.5).
    • Your feycrafting relies heavily on a friendly DM and plot, as does acquiring the raw materials to craft your weapons out of Pandemonic Silver (-0.5).
    • Half-fey is one of my favorite templates, and it was wise to include it as an optional adaptation (+0.5).
    • With a BAB of +0 at second level, you do not qualify for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (-0.5).
    • Without Combat Casting, you do not qualify for Spellrazor, which is one of the main pieces of your build (-0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.5
    • Entry requirements are met, and one of them is maximized (+0.5).
    • With a 12 WIS, you’ll be unable to cast many of the spells you gain as a Death Delver (-0.5).
    • Good use of Contingent Benign Transposition with Nine Lives and Sanctified Fall (+0.5).
    • Touch of Healing is useful for constant healing of monkeys, which is something you’ll find yourself doing quite a bit (+0.5).
    • I have to show some love for taking Practiced Spellcaster to boost the CL of your Secret Ingredient spells (+0.5).
    • Overall, it feels like the Secret Ingredient exists in this build only to cure your monkeys of the pain and fear you instill in them. Not only does this make me wonder why the Secret Ingredient was chosen, but methinks some PETA folk will want to speak with you (-0.5).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5)

    Parsifal the Fool: 19.5 20!
    Spoiler
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    Originality: 5
    • You’re the only half-elf in this round (+0.5).
    • Mechanically, bard matches up nicely with the class. Divine Bard and half-elf sub levels do even more to keep with the flavor and single-attribute casting. Coupled with the selection of a prestige class I had never even glanced at, I have to give some points (+0.5).
    • What better way to delve death than to see the future? I dig the concept very much, and might steal it for an Eberron campaign I’m currently DMing (+0.5).
    • Exquisite backstory—both separate vignettes had me engrossed in your tale of a conflicted seer who knows precisely how it ends (+0.5).
    Power: 4.5
    • Apprentice (Entertainer) doesn’t seem to be doing much for the build besides giving you a +2 to Diplomacy (-0.5). Oh yeah, it also keeps two important skills as class skills always and forever. One of them is game-breaking enough on its own, but both of these class skills are used to fuel some of your build's main tricks. Nicely done (0).
    • Mark of the Dauntless combines nicely with your visions in order to assure that you’re not stunned by what you see and also partners nicely with Celerity…probably the first build I’ve seen where this feat is used for a purpose beyond offsetting the downside of Celerity (+0.5).
    • Excellent choices in your spells known all-around, and the Dragonmark you’ve selected adds even more appropriate SLA options to the character (+0.5).
    • Your Calm Emotions and Inspire Awe abilities are definitely supercharged, and can work well together to ensure that the only emotions others feel are the ones you want them to (+0.5).
    • Between your spells and your SLAs, you are in the business of knowing and can stay open for business long after others have closed their doors for the day. You also provide options for things that are immune to your mind-affecting abilities, so you’ll never be short on options (+0.5).
    Elegance: 5
    • Base class/Secret Ingredient/five-level PrC is almost as simple as it gets (+0.5).
    • You qualify for all feats and PrCs without incident (+0.5).
    • While your divine bard casting is stalled by entrance into the Secret Ingredient, the fact that you are all about low-level divine spells means that Death Delver actually serves to buff up your Divine Bard levels with additional spells known and spells per day (+0.5).
    • Excellent section on adapting Parsifal, especially noting that Celerity is often banned (especially when you have Mark of the Dauntless as well) and suggesting another powerful option to replace it (+0.5).
    Use of Secret Ingredient: 5
    • Entry requirements are met, and two are maximized (+0.5).
    • You provide the most explicit and in-depth optimization effort of all the actual class features of the Secret Ingredient, providing many useful combinations (+1).
    • All ten levels taken (+0.5).


    And while I'm at it, I know that medals are on everyone's mind (what with the Olympics on and whatnot), so here are...

    Final(?) Tallies after One Judge Before Disputes
    {table=head]Entry|Place|Total|Average
    Parsifal the Fool|GOLD|20|5
    Mortimus Vozh|SILVER|17|4.25
    The Dark Fantastic|BRONZE|15.5|3.875
    Het of Wyrmtooth Mountain|BRONZE|15.5|3.875
    Wilhemina Delilah Harkness|Fifth|14.75|3.6875
    Doctor Herbert West|Sixth|13|3.25
    Dalibar the Nightmare|Seventh|12|3
    Mr. Bibby|Eighth|11.5|2.875
    Cado Norl|Ninth|11|2.75
    Reach|Tenth|9.5|2.375
    TK-421 "Rush"|Eleventh|9|2.25
    Pino Chio|Twelfth|6|1.5[/table]

    Again, great job everyone!
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2012-08-16 at 05:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  29. - Top - End - #239
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Excellent job, Ponies!

    Can't wait to see what the other judges deliver.

  30. - Top - End - #240
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    [*]This builds starts off a few different directions, but never really pursues any of them. As a result, the character’s abilities do not progress naturally and fluidly throughout the build. He picks up a few things here, a few things there, kind of like a fruit slaad when we’re really looking for a smoothie (-0.5).
    FTFY. At least, that's how I read this comment initially, and it kind of even made sense.
    You can call me Draz.
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    I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
    ... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.

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